This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
people who think that this change is good are delusional... it is not a balanced game when you can make 70 off of six queens what the hell blizzard... this was supposed to be a small balance change and proved to be the largest buff we havvee seen since beta. This also affected a matcup that was almost perfectly balanced around 50 percent
On June 24 2012 05:35 Wyk wrote: Btw, why was the fungal growth missile nerf not applied? That could have provided an opportunity for late game ravens to shine.
edit: talking about
it looks like the projectile is moving a bit too slow to hit anything fast
OMG! My Terran tear collector is full. I guess it is time to close this thread (73 pages ago). Hellions expo was OP vs Zerg. It was patched. Please go play it out and L2P.
The worst part of all this is knowing your zerg opponents think they are so fucking awesome. All their hard work "suddenly" paid off. They shit on you with half the effort and an a move, and think they are the shit. You have to do "do more for the same effect", a very sad asymetrical trend of balance. I feel like a lot of people here don't "get it", they believe there's some magical composition that despite 16 hour days for the last 2 years, pros just haven't found. There's some equal macro build I can go toe-to-toe with zerg, without losing to a sudden S+Z then EEEEEEEEEEE..there just isn't. Either I cheese economically to be even (economically speaking), or i cheese the polar opposite way..
@ above, i said economically speaking, because there's no composition "better" than the bl/infestor/corrupter. THERE. JUST. ISN'T. And it's so disgusting that such asymtrical balance exists, each race should be relatively even at all stages of the game, but with balanced end game...why the fuck would you make a END GAME ORIENTED, then devoid all pressure. Blizzard claims to "get it" and they answer with "you must be damage, or you will be behind." that is what they said. and that is just wrong from the beginning. however, what takes the cake is that now zerg can be safe without committing any larva to early game military. and as blizz have SAID THEMSELVES, when left pressureless zerg >>>>>>> .........
and the 2nd worst part is that tvz was a problem before, with terran still having no late game since ghost nerf. no late game comp to shoot for, no way to turtle to 200/200 with no pressure against GOOD zergs. INFESTORS COUNTER EVERYTHING, BUFF ZERG..GHOST COUNTER EVERYTHING (?) NERF GHOSTS. I CAN GO ON FOREVER BUT IM LATE FOR WORK.
wake up dudes, this game wont make it to the 3rd installment @ this rate..they leave some patches forever, nerf some immediately, everything is done arbitrarily and with the wrong agenda. im just so sad.
On June 24 2012 05:55 algorithm0r wrote: OMG! My Terran tear collector is full. I guess it is time to close this thread (73 pages ago). Hellions expo was OP vs Zerg. It was patched. Please go play it out and L2P.
so u think ZvT is balanced now? i guess MVP, MMA, DRG, Supernova, MKP, AND RYUNG need to L2P AMIRITE? U know, since they all think the match up is imbalanced
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
On June 24 2012 05:55 algorithm0r wrote: OMG! My Terran tear collector is full. I guess it is time to close this thread (73 pages ago). Hellions expo was OP vs Zerg. It was patched. Please go play it out and L2P.
so u think ZvT is balanced now? i guess MVP, MMA, DRG, Supernova, MKP, AND RYUNG need to L2P AMIRITE? U know, since they all think the match up is imbalanced
MMA hasn't played yet this season, the rest of those Terrans advanced and except for MKP beat Zergs to do it. And people grossly misrepresent what DRG has said.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
To be fair July and Leenock looked ok but met argueably the best Terran out there and lost 1:2 each in very close matches.
Zenio lost to MKP while beating Alive he also argueably overperformed ( i see him as Code A caliber very low Code S )
Also the TvZ statistic last season in Ro32 was 5:5 in Series with tons of 2:1/1:2 series. It went to 7:5 because MVP had two close 2:1 wins but overall the mapscore of TvZ last Season was 17:15 in favor of Terran...
Yeah and how is the mapscore this season? Hint its in favor of Terran
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
No, because they're winning...
And when watching those games the Zerg opponents they beat (for whatever reason ) didn't play the style that is considered OP by just about any Terran...
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
On June 24 2012 05:55 algorithm0r wrote: OMG! My Terran tear collector is full. I guess it is time to close this thread (73 pages ago). Hellions expo was OP vs Zerg. It was patched. Please go play it out and L2P.
so u think ZvT is balanced now? i guess MVP, MMA, DRG, Supernova, MKP, AND RYUNG need to L2P AMIRITE? U know, since they all think the match up is imbalanced
MMA hasn't played yet this season, the rest of those Terrans advanced and except for MKP beat Zergs to do it. And people grossly misrepresent what DRG has said.
Please people need to watch games outside of just the GSL......terrans are getting raped, RAPPPPPPEEEEEDDDD, by Zergs at the moment. All these qualifiers, Dreamhack, GeSL, etc. TvZ was destroyed by the queen change. No way to contain creep. TLO says he LIKES it when Terran players scan and destroy his creep because he has 4 queens spreading creep anyway.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
Oh please, when you say last GSL season it seems like recent, but actually it was 3 months ago already. DRG and the Zergs lost in ro32 was back in March, it's not like it was just yesterday or something.
And if you take a look at this:http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ In March, ZvT was actually in Zerg favor in Korea, and then in April it's favor Terran again. TvZ has been swinging back and forth like that for months. That's why people are saying TvZ is balanced, and the buff is breaking the balance.
Because GSL spread for 3 months, you can't depend on GSL result to judge the balance
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
There was a patch recently. Perhaps you've heard. It's the reason Terrans are getting murdered.
On June 24 2012 05:55 algorithm0r wrote: OMG! My Terran tear collector is full. I guess it is time to close this thread (73 pages ago). Hellions expo was OP vs Zerg. It was patched. Please go play it out and L2P.
It's really funny that you say that. DongRaeGu learned to fucking play and never had a problem with hellion expo, EVER.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
No, because they're winning...
And when watching those games the Zerg opponents they beat (for whatever reason ) didn't play the style that is considered OP by just about any Terran...
Exactly. Now we can come back to what I originally quoted: "There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them"
zvt just feels horrible matchup right now i hate the MU so much i feel like zerg is better early game, mid game, late game blizzard have compeltly fucking ruined this matchup and watching it isnt much better, sigh blizzard really know how to fuck over thier own games
queen - fast third shit ton of drones then stop army production - you cant keep up with there macro - they are allowed to fuck up loads you are not - infestors just ruin terran so hard - and they can just a move there whole army not even look at it and carry on macroing all they have to do is fungal a few times its fucking disgusting how shit this game is right now
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
No, because they're winning...
And when watching those games the Zerg opponents they beat (for whatever reason ) didn't play the style that is considered OP by just about any Terran...
Exactly. Now we can come back to what I originally quoted: "There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them"
No they for what ever reason don't spread creep all over the Map , don't tech to their lategame army , all-in for NO reason , hell at times don't even upgrade well enough.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
And can't you say the same thing about Terrans this GSL?
On June 24 2012 05:59 PesteNoire wrote:
On June 24 2012 05:55 algorithm0r wrote: OMG! My Terran tear collector is full. I guess it is time to close this thread (73 pages ago). Hellions expo was OP vs Zerg. It was patched. Please go play it out and L2P.
so u think ZvT is balanced now? i guess MVP, MMA, DRG, Supernova, MKP, AND RYUNG need to L2P AMIRITE? U know, since they all think the match up is imbalanced
MMA hasn't played yet this season, the rest of those Terrans advanced and except for MKP beat Zergs to do it. And people grossly misrepresent what DRG has said.
Please people need to watch games outside of just the GSL......terrans are getting raped, RAPPPPPPEEEEEDDDD, by Zergs at the moment. All these qualifiers, Dreamhack, GeSL, etc. TvZ was destroyed by the queen change. No way to contain creep. TLO says he LIKES it when Terran players scan and destroy his creep because he has 4 queens spreading creep anyway.
Of course he likes it, 1 scan only has radius of 13 and cost 50 energy and takes 89sec to regen back, while 4 creep tumor in an area can spread creep a radius of 10 in ~20sec, so by the time you have enough energy to scan again, creep tumor has already out of countrol. Scan is no way an effective way to kill creep tumor.
On June 20 2012 14:36 BBQSAC wrote: Like you said in the title, it has only been a month or so which means there is still plenty of time for Terran to evolve their play accordingly. Things like fast triple orbital easily keep the Terran on equal economic footing (impression I get from watching pro games) and there will be good early strategies found, there was good pressure before reactor hellion and I'm sure there will soon be good pressure again if reactor hellion falls by the wayside.
That was when Bio pressure was viable. But that has been nerfed in various ways. Supply before Barracks, Barracks build time, Bunker build time. Stim research timing increase. Banshee -> Spore Root. BF Hellions nerf.
There's this odd belief that Zerg players have seemingly just "adapted" to the metagame and dealt with these strategies some how, and that's why they're not used. But we forget how much Blizzard has helped in the process in the form of buffs/nerfs. Now with the smaller maps removed, early aggro or pressure has become even more difficult.
Bio pressure was still viable then even after all those nerfs. Zerg just got better at holding it with little to no damage, even considering a mistake then would have meant a finished bunker killing your natural and ending the game. Now it's that much harder with the queen buff, though.
EPT
