This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
I really like how the definition of "behind" keeps changing for Zerg players. I bet that if Blizzard buffed Queens so much that you could go Hive without using any larvae on units, you'd have Zerg players arguing that having to build units before starting Hive puts them so far behind, there's no way to win.
Newsflash: Having to build units before you get 70 drones and 3 bases does not mean you're behind. It doesn't even mean that in freaking ZvP, where you take a 4 min third. Just make a bunch of roaches and simcity your natural against hellions.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
How does a unit that costs 25! gas each while the production building doesn't even cost any Gas cut heavily into your gas ? Also 4-6 Helions will lose to 3-4 Roaches pretty badly and if you wall with Evos ( that you want anyway ) and put a Queen in the middle there will be no runby ( and even if he somehow gets through you shouldn't lose more than the Helions cost unless you suck and he will sacrifice his whole mapcontrol from that point on since Helion production will stop ) . Helions will never kill a Hatch with their pityful damage. IF the Terran invests heavily into Helions you'll want to be able to have roaches anyway .
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
Yes, because queens move so much faster than roaches do, this makes them a much better option..... >.>
On June 24 2012 03:57 SnipedSoul wrote: I've started going 1rax FE into 2 factory BF hellions. It's a huge gamble that sometimes pays off. Kinda sucks that I have to go all-in to damage a zerg that goes 3 bases and 70 drones off nothing but 6 queens .
I do the same thing, it's a nice transition into mech also. But yeah, it kind of relies on the zerg making mistakes or playing too greedy.
On June 24 2012 03:57 SnipedSoul wrote: I've started going 1rax FE into 2 factory BF hellions. It's a huge gamble that sometimes pays off. Kinda sucks that I have to go all-in to damage a zerg that goes 3 bases and 70 drones off nothing but 6 queens .
I do the same thing, it's a nice transition into mech also. But yeah, it kind of relies on the zerg making mistakes or playing too greedy.
Yeah, a lot of zergs I face go 6 queen into double evo chamber mass ling/infestor. I can usually attack with 8-12 hellions before infestors are out so they only have queens and lings. I just run past the queens, roast the lings, and kill as many drones as possible before the hellions die. It's a gamble, but it's the most effective way I've come up with to punish the insanely greedy zergs of today.
Im really at a loss of words as to what to do to beat a zerg these days.. Its like I am being forced to make one HUGE push, and if it doesn't work, you flat out lose.
As an spectator ( play Protoss), TvZ now looks like a nightmare.
Against Protoss, Terran still has powerful allins and a midgame advantage. Everyone knows how medvacs pushes are strong and can easily kill a toss player, especially on a map like Antiga. So, against Toss, Terran still has a way to slow down their economy or just kill their opponent.
Against zerg, in my eyes, that midgame advantage doesnt exist. When they start to drop, zerg already has a shit ton of stuff to defend - especially with infestor/ling. Its kinda odd to see a guy like MKP not being able to do enough damage to slow down zerg economy.
I might be wrong in my view of the match up. But dont forget, Protoss also struggled with the sporecrawler buff. Remember how stargate was way more cost efficient to slow their economy? They almost crippled Protoss options to harass after a FFE. They did the same with hellion openings.
Its a marketing strategy,they buff zerg into oblivion,so that everyone at least tries them out. I bet the gross will stay zerg to some degree teamgames,customs,etc... And the likelyhood is,that at about 80% will definitely buy HOTS! Profit comes first! Soul and Guts relinquish more and more in this company...
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
On June 24 2012 05:21 Wyk wrote: Dont worry guys, its Zergs turn to be OP now.
Just give it time, im pretty sure in a year Infestor fungal will be 125 energy(travelling missile) and Raven HSM 75(instant hit with aoe).
What will actually happen is that Terrans will start to make lots of ravens, zergs won't split BL at all so they die to HSM and Blizzard will deem HSM to be too strong and replace it with the "wet noodle" ability.
On June 24 2012 05:21 Wyk wrote: Dont worry guys, its Zergs turn to be OP now.
Just give it time, im pretty sure in a year Infestor fungal will be 125 energy(travelling missile) and Raven HSM 75(instant hit with aoe).
What will actually happen is that Terrans will start to make lots of ravens, zergs won't split BL at all so they die to HSM and Blizzard will deem HSM to be too strong and replace it with the "wet noodle" ability.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how does nerfing Terran after a Protoss dominated GSL Season make any sense ?
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
On June 24 2012 05:35 Wyk wrote: Btw, why was the fungal growth missile nerf not applied? That could have provided an opportunity for late game ravens to shine.
On June 24 2012 04:57 VPVanek wrote: Im really at a loss of words as to what to do to beat a zerg these days.. Its like I am being forced to make one HUGE push, and if it doesn't work, you flat out lose.
That's why you try push HangBang style. If the outcome is determined by that push, then you better make the best of it.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
On June 24 2012 04:24 CajunMan wrote: Roaches are in no way an efficient way to deal with hellions. They are slow so hellion run bys are still present and cut heavily into your gas. If the Terran goes banshee the third will still fall regardless of the roach count unless your gonna tell me roach queen spore is a good way to go........ I love getting that far behind I like it a lot.
Also hoping on a terran is lazy is not a smart way to play.
You should have to do something to take an early third. There's absolutely no reason for 6 minute thirds to be standard, since Zerg was completely capable of winning reliably without them.
Yeah the 0 Zergs in last GSL season really showed how.
And how many of them actually went out to Terrans ? Last GSL Season was Protoss dominated not Terran...
Sigh... DRG lost in a group of 3 terrans and him, Zenio lost in a group of 2 terrans and 2 zergs, Nestea lost to Virus, MVP beat Leenock and July.
BBBB and Curious lost to protosses.
Because they played like utter ass. Seriously, show me one TvZ from last season's GSL that had anything to do with balance. There weren't any. Every single Zerg underperformed and didn't look like their usual self.
To be fair July and Leenock looked ok but met argueably the best Terran out there and lost 1:2 each in very close matches.
Zenio lost to MKP while beating Alive he also argueably overperformed ( i see him as Code A caliber very low Code S )
Also the TvZ statistic last season in Ro32 was 5:5 in Series with tons of 2:1/1:2 series. It went to 7:5 because MVP had two close 2:1 wins but overall the mapscore of TvZ last Season was 17:15 in favor of Terran...
EPT
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