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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
12:09 KST Page 98 |
France9034 Posts
On June 22 2012 23:34 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:19 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:09 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On June 22 2012 23:04 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get real, learn new builds or drop down to Diamond where you seem to belong. It's not the creepspread I care about as I wipe that off the map with mym timing attack. It's the freedom for Z to power their economy risk-free. Dude open up standard helion expand, but keep making helions and hide all but 4 in your main. When you have 10+ go straight to Z. Gratz on a free win. "risk free economy" doesn't exist. Ts are just not good at punishing Zs yet. They dont understand timings. 10 helions will come at the same time as Z is powering drones to 3rd. mb even faster. Christ kid, get real, go back to bronze in this mystical fairy land of yours. Anyway, we just saw Slayers ( famous for its Terrans) lose to zerg 4 times and not send out a single Terran. I think something is wrong. Not anymore after both Taeja and Ganzi left.Only left MMA,Ryung and Clide left. The races that lost to zerg today is protoss and not terran so i got no idea why you bring that up today. Their terran player aren't as prominent as before. They wasn't sending Ryung cuz he said that he prepared TvZ builds in Code S. Prime has an even stronger terran line-up than them Maru,MKP and Byun.
Why protoss were sent ? When you have MMA which just destroys zergs... ? Who has a 71 % W/L ratio against Z (last two games being losses, from Life and B4 a bit less that one month ago).
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On June 22 2012 23:56 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:34 FakeDeath wrote:On June 22 2012 23:19 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:09 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On June 22 2012 23:04 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get real, learn new builds or drop down to Diamond where you seem to belong. It's not the creepspread I care about as I wipe that off the map with mym timing attack. It's the freedom for Z to power their economy risk-free. Dude open up standard helion expand, but keep making helions and hide all but 4 in your main. When you have 10+ go straight to Z. Gratz on a free win. "risk free economy" doesn't exist. Ts are just not good at punishing Zs yet. They dont understand timings. 10 helions will come at the same time as Z is powering drones to 3rd. mb even faster. Christ kid, get real, go back to bronze in this mystical fairy land of yours. Anyway, we just saw Slayers ( famous for its Terrans) lose to zerg 4 times and not send out a single Terran. I think something is wrong. Not anymore after both Taeja and Ganzi left.Only left MMA,Ryung and Clide left. The races that lost to zerg today is protoss and not terran so i got no idea why you bring that up today. Their terran player aren't as prominent as before. They wasn't sending Ryung cuz he said that he prepared TvZ builds in Code S. Prime has an even stronger terran line-up than them Maru,MKP and Byun. Why protoss were sent ? When you have MMA which just destroys zergs... ? Who has a 71 % W/L ratio against Z (last two games being losses, from Life and B4 a bit less that one month ago).
He is losing a lot of games against zerg recently(BoongBoong,Life,Sen and Leenock) and is slumping against zerg lately.
Slayers make a smart decision to send Puzzle(really good in teamleague) and it was 4-5.
Although it was a loss, it wasn't as one-sided as it seems.
Back in 2011, MMA was favored against every zerg except DRG and Nestea.
People would never think twice when MMA played against any top level zerg other than DRG and Nestea.
MMA crushes zerg faces left and right back then.But not now.
Now he is going through a small slump and i believe he will come back soon enough.
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On June 22 2012 23:54 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:11 Doodsmack wrote:On June 22 2012 22:55 CakeSauc3 wrote:On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent. Regardless of whether or not you're high masters, Zerg still benefits from the buffs. And believe it or not, all players get matched up to players who are at a similar level of play. So balance does affect gameplay even at a lower level, and even as early as high platinum are players smart enough to take advantage of these buffs that they've received. Some of us aren't out to become the best player in the world - we just enjoy playing the game, but patches like these ruin it for us. Thanks for calling the majority of Starcraft 2 players unintelligent, have a nice day. You didn't address my point. At skill levels lower than high master, an improvement in mechanics far outweighs game balance. If you're platinum then you're doing so many things wrong that balance is just one small factor in your games. I am mid master and when I play against diamond or below zergs and tosses, I crush them with mass marine 98% of the time. Why can't you do the same? Because your mechanics are FUCKING TERRIBLE. Yesterday I beat a mid master toss with mass marine on daybreak. I opened triple orbital, and powered up marines and Protoss did not have sufficient skill level to defend all 3 of his bases. Balance did not factor in at all. There's a reason why pro Terrans don't bother analyze replays of warm up games that were losses. The poor mechanics dictate that the decision making and tactics were mostly irrelevant. I cringe every time I see posts like this, oozing with self - righteousness. I looked you up and you are barely mid master so GTFO talking other people down about terrible mechanics. I guess by your logic, only TBLS can complain about balance. All these code S losers just need to get better.
So you looked up my account that has like 5 ladder games the past 3 seasons and somehow determined my MMR, and implied that you have to be at a high skill level in order to understand that only high masters have near-optimal mechanics. Then you claimed that when I referred to high masters it's equivalent to referring to Code S players.
Hopefully that post was a fluke and not indicative of your intelligence level.
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Does anyone think it's weird that T can't all in Z at all anymore because of queens, but Zerg can easily turn on the switch and just roach baneling all in the T and it's insanely hard to hold?
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On June 23 2012 00:04 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:54 SupLilSon wrote:On June 22 2012 23:11 Doodsmack wrote:On June 22 2012 22:55 CakeSauc3 wrote:On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent. Regardless of whether or not you're high masters, Zerg still benefits from the buffs. And believe it or not, all players get matched up to players who are at a similar level of play. So balance does affect gameplay even at a lower level, and even as early as high platinum are players smart enough to take advantage of these buffs that they've received. Some of us aren't out to become the best player in the world - we just enjoy playing the game, but patches like these ruin it for us. Thanks for calling the majority of Starcraft 2 players unintelligent, have a nice day. You didn't address my point. At skill levels lower than high master, an improvement in mechanics far outweighs game balance. If you're platinum then you're doing so many things wrong that balance is just one small factor in your games. I am mid master and when I play against diamond or below zergs and tosses, I crush them with mass marine 98% of the time. Why can't you do the same? Because your mechanics are FUCKING TERRIBLE. Yesterday I beat a mid master toss with mass marine on daybreak. I opened triple orbital, and powered up marines and Protoss did not have sufficient skill level to defend all 3 of his bases. Balance did not factor in at all. There's a reason why pro Terrans don't bother analyze replays of warm up games that were losses. The poor mechanics dictate that the decision making and tactics were mostly irrelevant. I cringe every time I see posts like this, oozing with self - righteousness. I looked you up and you are barely mid master so GTFO talking other people down about terrible mechanics. I guess by your logic, only TBLS can complain about balance. All these code S losers just need to get better. So you looked up my account that has like 5 ladder games the past 3 seasons and somehow determined my MMR, and implied that you have to be at a high skill level in order to understand that only high masters have near-optimal mechanics. Then you claimed that when I referred to high masters it's equivalent to referring to Code S players. Hopefully that post was a fluke and not indicative of your intelligence level.
No, I looked at your last season also where you were something like 400 points master, which is pretty shitty. I'm just laughing at the fact that you set some arbitrary cutoff at "high-master" as the point where people can talk about balance. I was making fun of your post by pointing out that many top SC2 players have poor mechanics in comparison to their BW counterparts, but that doesn't stop them from talking balance. The only one showing a lack of intelligence and reasoning is you.
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On June 22 2012 23:38 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent. I'm not blaming the Queen buff for my lack of skill (I NEVER blame patches for my lack of skill. I blame myself). But what the patch did do was throw away the timings of when I judged my benchmarks. So what do you suggest I do? Go 2-base MM and pray he didn't make banelings?
If you're trying to assess your 2 base timings you don't need to look at your opponent at all. If you're set on getting a certain composition as fast as possible you can do that against computers. Developing sufficient mechanics to properly macro a 2 base timing is something you'll always be able to do.
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On June 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get real, learn new builds or drop down to Diamond where you seem to belong.
Just to point out, just because before a patch, something was balanced the other way, does not constitute proof that after the patch, things are balanced the right way. Your logic is incomplete.
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On June 23 2012 00:06 Sroobz wrote:
Does anyone think it's weird that T can't all in Z at all anymore because of queens, but Zerg can easily turn on the switch and just roach baneling all in the T and it's insanely hard to hold?
Thats a metagame issue. Terrans has the units to counter with ease that combo
If a Terran wants to sink 600 - 800 minerals into Hellions which are hard countered by Roaches\Banelings then they have to relise they might die to an all in. Mauraders \ Siege Tanks counter it with ease
Just like Zergs are currently investing more into Queens recently and going 4 to 6 in number early game. Terrans will find a window to punish this predictable behaviour once they see it. just give it a few months to sort itself out
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On June 23 2012 00:16 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:06 Sroobz wrote:
Does anyone think it's weird that T can't all in Z at all anymore because of queens, but Zerg can easily turn on the switch and just roach baneling all in the T and it's insanely hard to hold? Thats a metagame issue. Terrans has the units to counter with ease that combo If a Terran wants to sink 600 - 800 minerals into Hellions which are hard countered by Roaches\Banelings then they have to relise they might die to an all in. Mauraders \ Siege Tanks counter it with ease Just like Zergs are currently investing more into Queens recently and going 4 to 6 in number early game. Terrans will find a window to punish this predictable behaviour once they see it. just give it a few months to sort itself out
Please. Stop talking. The only way to truly hold the roach baneling all in are quick tanks or marauders which is just suicide against Z now because they will just macro their tits off.
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On June 22 2012 23:38 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:34 FakeDeath wrote:On June 22 2012 23:19 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:09 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On June 22 2012 23:04 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get real, learn new builds or drop down to Diamond where you seem to belong. It's not the creepspread I care about as I wipe that off the map with mym timing attack. It's the freedom for Z to power their economy risk-free. Dude open up standard helion expand, but keep making helions and hide all but 4 in your main. When you have 10+ go straight to Z. Gratz on a free win. "risk free economy" doesn't exist. Ts are just not good at punishing Zs yet. They dont understand timings. 10 helions will come at the same time as Z is powering drones to 3rd. mb even faster. Christ kid, get real, go back to bronze in this mystical fairy land of yours. Anyway, we just saw Slayers ( famous for its Terrans) lose to zerg 4 times and not send out a single Terran. I think something is wrong. Not anymore after both Taeja and Ganzi left.Only left MMA,Ryung and Clide left. The races that lost to zerg today is protoss and not terran so i got no idea why you bring that up today. Their terran player aren't as prominent as before. They wasn't sending Ryung cuz he said that he prepared TvZ builds in Code S. Prime has an even stronger terran line-up than them Maru,MKP and Byun. ...you honestly see no connection between them not sending out MMA (one of the best TvZer in the history of SC2) after their zergs and protosses lose to zerg again and again and again and again...? This is fucking Slayers...
Have you been following MMA at all? He was going down before the patch.
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On June 23 2012 00:16 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:06 Sroobz wrote:
Does anyone think it's weird that T can't all in Z at all anymore because of queens, but Zerg can easily turn on the switch and just roach baneling all in the T and it's insanely hard to hold? Thats a metagame issue. Terrans has the units to counter with ease that combo If a Terran wants to sink 600 - 800 minerals into Hellions which are hard countered by Roaches\Banelings then they have to relise they might die to an all in. Mauraders \ Siege Tanks counter it with ease Just like Zergs are currently investing more into Queens recently and going 4 to 6 in number early game. Terrans will find a window to punish this predictable behaviour once they see it. just give it a few months to sort itself out
But the point is, you force the T to go 3CC, otherwise if the zerg plays standard, your going to be way behind.
Going for siege tanks to hold a 7min all in is unrealistic, because if the all in fails to materialize, then your shit out of luck anyways. Tanks are worhtless in that point in the game.
also how do you go about scouting these mythical all ins in time to get siege/marauders in sufficient force, and to still be able to hold the swarm of zerglings that are inevitably on the way?
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On June 23 2012 00:21 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:38 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:34 FakeDeath wrote:On June 22 2012 23:19 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:09 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On June 22 2012 23:04 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get real, learn new builds or drop down to Diamond where you seem to belong. It's not the creepspread I care about as I wipe that off the map with mym timing attack. It's the freedom for Z to power their economy risk-free. Dude open up standard helion expand, but keep making helions and hide all but 4 in your main. When you have 10+ go straight to Z. Gratz on a free win. "risk free economy" doesn't exist. Ts are just not good at punishing Zs yet. They dont understand timings. 10 helions will come at the same time as Z is powering drones to 3rd. mb even faster. Christ kid, get real, go back to bronze in this mystical fairy land of yours. Anyway, we just saw Slayers ( famous for its Terrans) lose to zerg 4 times and not send out a single Terran. I think something is wrong. Not anymore after both Taeja and Ganzi left.Only left MMA,Ryung and Clide left. The races that lost to zerg today is protoss and not terran so i got no idea why you bring that up today. Their terran player aren't as prominent as before. They wasn't sending Ryung cuz he said that he prepared TvZ builds in Code S. Prime has an even stronger terran line-up than them Maru,MKP and Byun. ...you honestly see no connection between them not sending out MMA (one of the best TvZer in the history of SC2) after their zergs and protosses lose to zerg again and again and again and again...? This is fucking Slayers... Have you been following MMA at all? He was going down before the patch.
He's still the GSTL king and TvZ sniper...
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On June 23 2012 00:10 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:38 HeroMystic wrote:On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent. I'm not blaming the Queen buff for my lack of skill (I NEVER blame patches for my lack of skill. I blame myself). But what the patch did do was throw away the timings of when I judged my benchmarks. So what do you suggest I do? Go 2-base MM and pray he didn't make banelings? If you're trying to assess your 2 base timings you don't need to look at your opponent at all. If you're set on getting a certain composition as fast as possible you can do that against computers. Developing sufficient mechanics to properly macro a 2 base timing is something you'll always be able to do.
I don't think you fully understand the term "timing attack". It's not just an attack where you got a certain amount of units but it's also important to hit a timing where your opponent is weak (weaker then you) and you can make something work.
With the Queen buff a lot of timings for terran just don't work out anymore. Because Zergs get their third up faster and can drone more freely and can get their economy up earlier they have different amount of units as they would have had at the same game-time before the patch.
I don't want to say that there are no timings at all but Terrans have to relearn the matchup to a huge part and have to learn completely new build orders and have to relearn the whole early and midgame against zerg because almost everything you knew about midgame Zerg before the patch isn't true anymore.
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On June 23 2012 00:10 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:04 Doodsmack wrote:On June 22 2012 23:54 SupLilSon wrote:On June 22 2012 23:11 Doodsmack wrote:On June 22 2012 22:55 CakeSauc3 wrote:On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent. Regardless of whether or not you're high masters, Zerg still benefits from the buffs. And believe it or not, all players get matched up to players who are at a similar level of play. So balance does affect gameplay even at a lower level, and even as early as high platinum are players smart enough to take advantage of these buffs that they've received. Some of us aren't out to become the best player in the world - we just enjoy playing the game, but patches like these ruin it for us. Thanks for calling the majority of Starcraft 2 players unintelligent, have a nice day. You didn't address my point. At skill levels lower than high master, an improvement in mechanics far outweighs game balance. If you're platinum then you're doing so many things wrong that balance is just one small factor in your games. I am mid master and when I play against diamond or below zergs and tosses, I crush them with mass marine 98% of the time. Why can't you do the same? Because your mechanics are FUCKING TERRIBLE. Yesterday I beat a mid master toss with mass marine on daybreak. I opened triple orbital, and powered up marines and Protoss did not have sufficient skill level to defend all 3 of his bases. Balance did not factor in at all. There's a reason why pro Terrans don't bother analyze replays of warm up games that were losses. The poor mechanics dictate that the decision making and tactics were mostly irrelevant. I cringe every time I see posts like this, oozing with self - righteousness. I looked you up and you are barely mid master so GTFO talking other people down about terrible mechanics. I guess by your logic, only TBLS can complain about balance. All these code S losers just need to get better. So you looked up my account that has like 5 ladder games the past 3 seasons and somehow determined my MMR, and implied that you have to be at a high skill level in order to understand that only high masters have near-optimal mechanics. Then you claimed that when I referred to high masters it's equivalent to referring to Code S players. Hopefully that post was a fluke and not indicative of your intelligence level. No, I looked at your last season also where you were something like 400 points master, which is pretty shitty. I'm just laughing at the fact that you set some arbitrary cutoff at "high-master" as the point where people can talk about balance. I was making fun of your post by pointing out that many top SC2 players have poor mechanics in comparison to their BW counterparts, but that doesn't stop them from talking balance. The only one showing a lack of intelligence and reasoning is you.
400 points after how many games? What was my bonus pool remaining? Did you look at my opponents' points? How do you know my MMR then? Do you consider yourself a smart person?
BW players are irrelevant to this discussion. I'm talking about near-optimal SC2 mechanics, not BW mechanics. And I didn't say sub-high master players can't talk about balance in general. I said they shouldn't blame their losses on balance.
Reading comprehension.
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On June 23 2012 00:24 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:10 Doodsmack wrote:On June 22 2012 23:38 HeroMystic wrote:On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent. I'm not blaming the Queen buff for my lack of skill (I NEVER blame patches for my lack of skill. I blame myself). But what the patch did do was throw away the timings of when I judged my benchmarks. So what do you suggest I do? Go 2-base MM and pray he didn't make banelings? If you're trying to assess your 2 base timings you don't need to look at your opponent at all. If you're set on getting a certain composition as fast as possible you can do that against computers. Developing sufficient mechanics to properly macro a 2 base timing is something you'll always be able to do. I don't think you fully understand the term "timing attack". It's not just an attack where you got a certain amount of units but it's also important to hit a timing where your opponent is weak (weaker then you) and you can make something work. With the Queen buff a lot of timings for terran just don't work out anymore. Because Zergs get their third up faster and can drone more freely and can get their economy up earlier they have different amount of units as they would have had at the same game-time before the patch. I don't want to say that there are no timings at all but Terrans have to relearn the matchup to a huge part and have to learn completely new build orders and have to relearn the whole early and midgame against zerg because almost everything you knew about midgame Zerg before the patch isn't true anymore.
The guy I'm responding to is platinum if I'm not mistaken. Hes saying he uses 2 base timings to practice his macro. In his league, if he properly macroes a blind 2 base timing he should win most of the time so my point stands. You're right I should have qualified the type of timing I was referring to though.
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As a Zerg player I actually really hope the queen range range buff will be reverted. Just cause the constant flame I recieve on ladder for playing Z is starting to become rediculous. At the same time the buff has not changed a single aspect of my game. I still do exactly the same build I did before the patch, and my creepspread is not anything better except for maybe the first 7 mins of the game. Energy builds up on queens, so where I before had to wait for 3 roaches or use a spine to get creep going, and then place several tumors at once, I can usually just start spreading it right away now. But from watching replays of before and after, this means absolutely nothing for my total creepspread from 8-9 minutes and onwards. It is identical. I think the patch has made alot more people do the 4 queen gasless opening and thats the reason T notices more creep, but imo it has nothing to do with the patch and I would love it to be reverted as said earlier. Come to think of it the only difference I have noticed is that it is alot easier to hold of reaper openings, but I rarely ever saw that anyway in the period before the patch.
The overlord speed increase was a good change though considering the trend of larger maps, and overlords dieing trying to get across the map. There is litterairy no difference from before the change when it comes to saccing overlords to scout because on shorter distances the speed increase cant be noticed.
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On June 23 2012 00:24 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:21 Assirra wrote:On June 22 2012 23:38 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:34 FakeDeath wrote:On June 22 2012 23:19 Sroobz wrote:On June 22 2012 23:09 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On June 22 2012 23:04 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get real, learn new builds or drop down to Diamond where you seem to belong. It's not the creepspread I care about as I wipe that off the map with mym timing attack. It's the freedom for Z to power their economy risk-free. Dude open up standard helion expand, but keep making helions and hide all but 4 in your main. When you have 10+ go straight to Z. Gratz on a free win. "risk free economy" doesn't exist. Ts are just not good at punishing Zs yet. They dont understand timings. 10 helions will come at the same time as Z is powering drones to 3rd. mb even faster. Christ kid, get real, go back to bronze in this mystical fairy land of yours. Anyway, we just saw Slayers ( famous for its Terrans) lose to zerg 4 times and not send out a single Terran. I think something is wrong. Not anymore after both Taeja and Ganzi left.Only left MMA,Ryung and Clide left. The races that lost to zerg today is protoss and not terran so i got no idea why you bring that up today. Their terran player aren't as prominent as before. They wasn't sending Ryung cuz he said that he prepared TvZ builds in Code S. Prime has an even stronger terran line-up than them Maru,MKP and Byun. ...you honestly see no connection between them not sending out MMA (one of the best TvZer in the history of SC2) after their zergs and protosses lose to zerg again and again and again and again...? This is fucking Slayers... Have you been following MMA at all? He was going down before the patch. He's still the GSTL king and TvZ sniper...
That title belong to DRG(carrying his team to finals twice literally by himself and winning one of them and has the best GSTL record overall)
And upcoming contender is Symbol(again carrying his team to the round 2 of GSTL by 4-killing Fnatic and reverse-allkill IM marking history in GSTL for the first reverse all-kill)
On the other side,MMA used to be also damn good in GSTL but has fallen short in GSTL matches losing to Life with really sloppy play.
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I would just like to say it's hilariously stupid when non-terran players say terran players need to stop doing helion openings. There is a reason helion opening have been the go to build for more than a year. They give you warnings against a multitude of all ins and are the only real way to counter roach/bane or bane busts. Try holdings those with marines in a bunker. Only marine king can do that :D
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On June 23 2012 00:33 TiBoxy wrote:
At the same time the buff has not changed a single aspect of my game. I still do exactly the same build I did before the patch, and my creepspread is not anything better except for maybe the first 7 mins of the game. Energy builds up on queens, so where I before had to wait for 3 roaches or use a spine to get creep going, and then place several tumors at once, I can usually just start spreading it right away now. But from watching replays of before and after, this means absolutely nothing for my total creepspread from 8-9 minutes and onwards. It is identical. I think the patch has made alot more people do the 4 queen gasless opening and thats the reason T notices more creep, but imo it has nothing to do with the patch and I would love it to be reverted as said earlier. Come to think of it the only difference I have noticed is that it is alot easier to hold of reaper openings, but I rarely ever saw that anyway in the period before the patch.
Honestly dude, all this means is that you suck :/
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The way I see it, and I'm more mellow on the whole situation, is that now zerg has a way to deal with hellions from the start; and are utilizing it heavily because hellions are used so much. Where before there was nothing to be done; now there is one thing that can be done: Queens. There's nothing new about having certain tools to handle different situation; and so this is to be expected. Now early game can be something other than 100% hellion every single game; maybe. And atleast the zerg has one 'tool' to use against it.
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EPT
