This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Cyro wrote: 1 month isnt enough. Give it 3, maybe 6.
Go back and look at the 1-1-1 TvP domination era, that seemed a lot more "completely broken and the game must be patched or the matchup will end" than current ZvT to me. There IS room for adaptation, it is not like an 8-15 minute push is crushing you regardless of how you play or what you do, even if you know exactly what is coming before the game starts
/Immortal change. Wasn't just some magical time when P adapted ROFL
Sorry double post :/
You really think, of all things, buffing immortal range from 5 to 6 made anything other than a small difference?
Actually, it's kind of the same thing as the queen buff. Immortals were barely used ever before the buff and then people started to experiment with them because of the buff. Wasn't the biggest of the deal but since the players tried to utilize the unit as much as possible instead they started to use it in a much more efficient way. Revert the buff and people will still use it way more than before the buff because they have started using strategies that involves the unit a lot more. Immortal allins were almost nonexistant prior the buff
No, we were using them before the one range buff however the problem was they would rarely get in range of the tanks. They would die to the marines first because they would either be behind the stalkers or they would walk forward to their death if they were focused down properly.
Either way, holding 1-1-1 remains a balancing act and it was really more practice that made it easier with proper stalker/zeal/immortal/obs balanced compositions.
With the extra range it made it more likely to hold but still a balancing act with regards to marine heavy 2 or 3 rax versions and many banshees with fewer tanks
On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote: Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent.
Regardless of whether or not you're high masters, Zerg still benefits from the buffs. And believe it or not, all players get matched up to players who are at a similar level of play. So balance does affect gameplay even at a lower level, and even as early as high platinum are players smart enough to take advantage of these buffs that they've received.
Some of us aren't out to become the best player in the world - we just enjoy playing the game, but patches like these ruin it for us. Thanks for calling the majority of Starcraft 2 players unintelligent, have a nice day.
You didn't address my point. At skill levels lower than high master, an improvement in mechanics far outweighs game balance. If you're platinum then you're doing so many things wrong that balance is just one small factor in your games. I am mid master and when I play against diamond or below zergs and tosses, I crush them with mass marine 98% of the time. Why can't you do the same? Because your mechanics are FUCKING TERRIBLE. Yesterday I beat a mid master toss with mass marine on daybreak. I opened triple orbital, and powered up marines and Protoss did not have sufficient skill level to defend all 3 of his bases. Balance did not factor in at all.
There's a reason why pro Terrans don't bother analyze replays of warm up games that were losses. The poor mechanics dictate that the decision making and tactics were mostly irrelevant.
I cringe every time I see posts like this, oozing with self - righteousness. I looked you up and you are barely mid master so GTFO talking other people down about terrible mechanics. I guess by your logic, only TBLS can complain about balance. All these code S losers just need to get better.
So you looked up my account that has like 5 ladder games the past 3 seasons and somehow determined my MMR, and implied that you have to be at a high skill level in order to understand that only high masters have near-optimal mechanics. Then you claimed that when I referred to high masters it's equivalent to referring to Code S players.
Hopefully that post was a fluke and not indicative of your intelligence level.
No, I looked at your last season also where you were something like 400 points master, which is pretty shitty. I'm just laughing at the fact that you set some arbitrary cutoff at "high-master" as the point where people can talk about balance. I was making fun of your post by pointing out that many top SC2 players have poor mechanics in comparison to their BW counterparts, but that doesn't stop them from talking balance. The only one showing a lack of intelligence and reasoning is you.
400 points after how many games? What was my bonus pool remaining? Did you look at my opponents' points? How do you know my MMR then? Do you consider yourself a smart person?
BW players are irrelevant to this discussion. I'm talking about near-optimal SC2 mechanics, not BW mechanics. And I didn't say sub-high master players can't talk about balance in general. I said they shouldn't blame their losses on balance.
Reading comprehension.
I don't understand how you say below high master mechanics outweigh balance, which is obviously true and is nothing new, but then say that pro terrans don't look at replays because their poor mechanics make their decision making and tactics irrelevant? Wouldn't it be the complete opposite? Also, why bother even bringing up that low level players have bad mechanics as if you brilliantly realized it and are enlightening everyone with your discovery. Everyone knows this. And why is it weird that he would think you could be talking about Code S players when the post before that you said "pro terrans"? And you're mid masters, how are you trying to use number of games and bonus pool to try to manipulate that?
I said pro Terrans wouldn't analyze replays of their warm up games.
And I didn't just point out that people below high master have poor mechanics. I pointed that people below high master shouldn't complain about balance in their own games because their poor mechanics are more determinative.
Suplilson, I'll do you the favor of not quoting your last two posts because they clearly show that when your reading comprehension has failed so miserably your only option is to just stop addressing my points lol.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Cyro wrote: 1 month isnt enough. Give it 3, maybe 6.
Go back and look at the 1-1-1 TvP domination era, that seemed a lot more "completely broken and the game must be patched or the matchup will end" than current ZvT to me. There IS room for adaptation, it is not like an 8-15 minute push is crushing you regardless of how you play or what you do, even if you know exactly what is coming before the game starts
/Immortal change. Wasn't just some magical time when P adapted ROFL
Sorry double post :/
You really think, of all things, buffing immortal range from 5 to 6 made anything other than a small difference?
WAHT!? is this even a question? Yes. It fixed the problem LOL
I would say it helps in holding of 1-1-1 all ins. But this strategy depends mostly on map size, as the size of the current maps has increased (and also that close spawning positions are not common anymore, at least in most tournaments) 1-1-1 all-ins are not used so often anymore.
On June 22 2012 22:50 Doodsmack wrote: Would love to see the replays of the people crying in this thread. Their minerals probably skyrocket to 2000 when theyre doing things with their army on the map on only 2 bases LOL. Yeah the reason you lost was because of balance, not your horrible mechanics.
If you're not high master, then shut the fuck up about balance and get better because at your level, player skill level is far more determinative than balance. Only when both players possess near-optimal mechanics does balance become determinative. It's how Starcraft fucking works, if you don't understand that the sorry but you're unintelligent.
Regardless of whether or not you're high masters, Zerg still benefits from the buffs. And believe it or not, all players get matched up to players who are at a similar level of play. So balance does affect gameplay even at a lower level, and even as early as high platinum are players smart enough to take advantage of these buffs that they've received.
Some of us aren't out to become the best player in the world - we just enjoy playing the game, but patches like these ruin it for us. Thanks for calling the majority of Starcraft 2 players unintelligent, have a nice day.
You didn't address my point. At skill levels lower than high master, an improvement in mechanics far outweighs game balance. If you're platinum then you're doing so many things wrong that balance is just one small factor in your games. I am mid master and when I play against diamond or below zergs and tosses, I crush them with mass marine 98% of the time. Why can't you do the same? Because your mechanics are FUCKING TERRIBLE. Yesterday I beat a mid master toss with mass marine on daybreak. I opened triple orbital, and powered up marines and Protoss did not have sufficient skill level to defend all 3 of his bases. Balance did not factor in at all.
There's a reason why pro Terrans don't bother analyze replays of warm up games that were losses. The poor mechanics dictate that the decision making and tactics were mostly irrelevant.
I cringe every time I see posts like this, oozing with self - righteousness. I looked you up and you are barely mid master so GTFO talking other people down about terrible mechanics. I guess by your logic, only TBLS can complain about balance. All these code S losers just need to get better.
So you looked up my account that has like 5 ladder games the past 3 seasons and somehow determined my MMR, and implied that you have to be at a high skill level in order to understand that only high masters have near-optimal mechanics. Then you claimed that when I referred to high masters it's equivalent to referring to Code S players.
Hopefully that post was a fluke and not indicative of your intelligence level.
No, I looked at your last season also where you were something like 400 points master, which is pretty shitty. I'm just laughing at the fact that you set some arbitrary cutoff at "high-master" as the point where people can talk about balance. I was making fun of your post by pointing out that many top SC2 players have poor mechanics in comparison to their BW counterparts, but that doesn't stop them from talking balance. The only one showing a lack of intelligence and reasoning is you.
400 points after how many games? What was my bonus pool remaining? Did you look at my opponents' points? How do you know my MMR then? Do you consider yourself a smart person?
BW players are irrelevant to this discussion. I'm talking about near-optimal SC2 mechanics, not BW mechanics. And I didn't say sub-high master players can't talk about balance in general. I said they shouldn't blame their losses on balance.
Reading comprehension.
I don't understand how you say below high master mechanics outweigh balance, which is obviously true and is nothing new, but then say that pro terrans don't look at replays because their poor mechanics make their decision making and tactics irrelevant? Wouldn't it be the complete opposite? Also, why bother even bringing up that low level players have bad mechanics as if you brilliantly realized it and are enlightening everyone with your discovery. Everyone knows this. And why is it weird that he would think you could be talking about Code S players when the post before that you said "pro terrans"? And you're mid masters, how are you trying to use number of games and bonus pool to try to manipulate that?
I said pro Terrans wouldn't analyze replays of their warm up games.
And I didn't just point out that people below high master have poor mechanics. I pointed that people below high master shouldn't complain about balance in their own games because their poor mechanics are more determinative.
Suplilson, I'll do you the favor of not quoting your last two posts because they clearly show that when your reading comprehension has failed so miserably your only option is to just stop addressing my points lol.
So you buff one unit and you really expect effects only at high masters and above?
Yes, for a single game, the personal skill is most likely the determinant for victory or defeat. But over all games an all player matchups, balance still factors into the win rates even at lower leagues. Give marines range 8 tomorrow and you will see gold terrans advance into platin and diamonds into master the week after.
On JuNe 22 2012 23:01 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote: Jesus christ are terran players still buthurt? Just because its harder to stop creepspread? Before then patch you could contain a Z with 4 helions and at the same time take a third. Get ReaL, learn New builds or drop down to Diamond where you seeM to belong.
It'S not the creepspread I care about as I wipe that off the map with MYM timing aTtacK.
It'S the Freedom for Z to Power their economy risk-free.
Dude open up standard helion expand, but keep making helions and hide all but 4 in your main. When you have 10+ go straight to Z. Gratz on a free win. "Risk free economy" doesn't exist. Ts are just not good at punishing Zs yet. They dont understand timings. 10 helions will come at the same time as Z is powering drones to 3rd. mb even faster.
Christ kid, get ReaL, go back to bronze in this mystical Fairy land of yours.
Anyway, WE just saw SlayerS (famous for its Terrans) lose to zerg 4 times and not send out a single Terran. I think something is wrong.
Not anymore after both TaeJa and GanZi left.Only left MMA,Ryung and Clide left. The races that Lost to zerg today is Protoss and not terran so i got no idea why you bring that up today. Their terran player aren't as prominent as before. They wasn't sending Ryung cuz he SaiD that he prepared TvZ builds in Code S. pRime has an even StrongeR terran line-up than them Maru,MKP and Byun.
Why Protoss were sent ? When you have MMA Which just destroys zergs... ? WhO has a 71 % W/L ratio against Z (last two games being losses, from Life and B4 a bit Less that ONE month ago).
He is losing a lot of games against zerg recently(BoongBoong,Life,Sen and Leenock) and is slumping against zerg lately. SlayerS make a smart decision to send Puzzle(Really good in teamleague) and it was 4-5. Although it was a loss, it wasn't as one-sided as it seems.
Back in 2011, MMA was favored against every zerg except DRG and NesTea. People would Never think twice when MMA played against any top level zerg other than DRG and NesTea. MMA crushes zerg faces left and right back then.But not now.
Now he is going through a SMall slump and i believe he will come back soon enough.
Hi FakeDeath!
Thanks for tributing your points to the discussion. Some of your posts were quite helpfull to see the greater pictiure of the ZvT matchup. But concerning your opinion on MMA, I would respectfully disagree. He is, right at this very moment, without any doubt, ONE of the three best TvZers in the world. In fact, who do you consider better than him?
Just Imagine for one moment, you had the job of SlayerS headcoach ( a very convenient daydream btw), and you had MMA in your rooster and zerg oppenent lined up. Why would you not send out MMA?
And is somebody, who won a tournament like Ironsquid, just 1 month ago, Really in a "slump", because he lost 3 games in a row? (beating symbol 4-2 in the finals)
Maybe there is a reason we don't actually know about. And this small detail alone does not proof anything. But add it to the greater picture of the information on post patch ZvT. It makes some sense, I guess.
Looking forward to your answer! Really like your input.
Hey Doodsmack such a huge change on such a common unit has an impact even below pro level. I play quite a lot against friends, and the change made playing zerg far easier. Sure you can still get better. Everyone can. Even top korean Pros can play much better. Just as an extreme example: Should this be the benchmark of marine micro?:
I guess terrans should just stfu until they can use their units to their full potential then? i play quite a lot a terran and zerg, and i can tell you that the queen change made playing zerg far easier in the tvz match up.
On June 23 2012 00:34 TRaFFiC wrote: I would just like to say it's hilariously stupid when non-terran players say terran players need to stop doing helion openings. There is a reason helion opening have been the go to build for more than a year. They give you warnings against a multitude of all ins and are the only real way to counter roach/bane or bane busts. Try holdings those with marines in a bunker. Only marine king can do that :D
More bunkers, and more depots :D
Protoss relies on gates to block, make barracks to block The scary thing is watching shit blow up, once the banelings are dead you are good to go.
I think non terrans feel that Terran has had the same builds for a very very very long time with little variation on how to get there or when to go for a particular composition.
For us non-Terrans, we have gone through different stylistic periods and while a composition might seem the same or similar, how we get there and how we deal with things is different. Granted, tech switching for Terran is more difficult than for Zerg, and as far as basic units, its easier for toss to choose stalkers or zealots at different times thanks to WG. However, terran always seems to go rax-expo-fact-hellions-tank-medivac/bio.
I dont see hellion drops, I dont see bio -- early third, secure 6 gas into mech. The only time I ever see the bio into mech is from MKP sometimes. Although I think he feels he is better at bio/mech attrition style against Zerg because his micro is so good and he does it more often.
The biggest problem MIGHT be fast 3 hatch zerg with many queens. Its already a problem in PvZ to a certain extent where you need either a really good 2 base all in, or a really fast 3rd to hold. It might also be in creep spread TvZ since Terrans never make mobile detection. The most worrisome thing is how fast Zerg can get an econ up and how much they can make off of their 3 base in terms of roach or ling bling or how fast they can tech to hive. The super quick econ from 3 hatch, 4th hatch (macro) with inject means so many units can come out O.O
You have no idea what you are talking about. You can't compare the races like that, its just stupid. If you go for a rax and bunker wall, you'll need to invest so many resources into it that it will severely delay your gas and thus your tech. Plus you won't be able to benefit from add-ons on some maps in certain positions. And add-ons are a big thing for terran, you need them to tech up and to get out superior units.
Also if you delay your gas and tech by that long you can kiss your map presence goodbye because the zerg will be more then happy to get his fast 3rd and drone up knowing that you can't harass him any time soon, and even if you want to, the moment your bio leaves your base he will see it with either a overlord or a scouting ling and he'll prepare adequate defenses back at home.
Not to mention that a protoss wall doesn't actually stop a baneling bust alone, its the units behind the wall that act as the deterrent and real stopping power. If you see a bane bust coming you first FF the pylon where the entrance usually is, and if he wants to destroy your GW or Forge you FF those areas as soon as the buildings die all the while warping in more sentries to hold, building more cannons and getting out your Immortal or Void Ray to help hold that.
If a zerg decides to bust a terran wall, the rax is going down no matter what, you won't know its coming because you gave up map presence. You scan need to scan, and even then there is a 50% chance you won't see it depending on where he put it and where you scan, (if you scan nat and he put it in the main, or vice versa). After the rax/raxes are down (depending if he focused his banelings in the joints between raxes), he will flood your nat with roaches, lings, banes and do economy damage. You have a high chance to die because you don't have marauders (you can't put add-ons on raxes that are part of the wall and even if you did he could have sniped them over and over with lings), and you'll only have un-upgraded marines. You might not even have tanks by that then because you delayed your gas and tech by so much to make that kind of a wall.
And why go bio into mech with 6 gas? Pure mech sucks versus zerg, its been shown time and time again that it can easily be taken apart by mass roaches and roach drops, it kills mech before it can even get off the ground. The zerg can abuse the mobility of his roaches to just rip apart mech the same way TvT bio does. The maps are now a days so big that a slow push mech is incredibly hard to execute and not get killed by back stabs, not to mention pure mech also sucks against Brood Lords.
Bio-mech or pure bio are way, way better.
Seriously how many times do people need to come up with not well thought up and stupid suggestions like these? Suggestions that can be so easily dismantled by some basic game knowledge and common sense.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Cyro wrote: 1 month isnt enough. Give it 3, maybe 6.
Hey, let's double the health and S for marines and give it six months to let Zerg and Protoss figure out new builds for the metagame.
do you see zerg dominating every single game? Last time I checked, Dreamhack, protoss mana won vs Dimaga Zerg.
be realistic please
And this is relevant in a topic named "1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…" because?
because, we are seeing protoss and terran still winning most of the tournaments, if protoss and terran werent winning and zerg win percent suddenly changed dramatiscally(anything more than 20 percent in winning rate only in top GM level) Then yes I agree with queen being imba and need change.
im only viewing from pro point of view not from anything lower than top GM because if u arent at the top level, there are things for you to work on instead of arguing whether its imba or not.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Cyro wrote: 1 month isnt enough. Give it 3, maybe 6.
Hey, let's double the health and S for marines and give it six months to let Zerg and Protoss figure out new builds for the metagame.
do you see zerg dominating every single game? Last time I checked, Dreamhack, protoss mana won vs Dimaga Zerg.
be realistic please
And this is relevant in a topic named "1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…" because?
because, we are seeing protoss and terran still winning most of the tournaments, if protoss and terran werent winning and zerg win percent suddenly changed dramatiscally(anything more than 20 percent in winning rate only in top GM level)
im only viewing from pro point of view not from anything lower than top GM because if u arent at the top level, there are things for you to work on instead of arguing whether its imba or not.
Did you watch Dreamhack? Every Terran got annihilated by the Round of 8, and every time a Protoss played Zerg they 2base all-inned...
For the sake of the game you should give more time to players trying to adapt to these changes.
Far too often has the SC2 community flipped out and reacted to a strat to have something nerfed into oblivion before (or during) the point where players have learned ways to deal with it.
This sort of knee-jerk reaction is the reason Terran makes reapers once every 1000 games (that's one example).
On June 23 2012 00:34 TRaFFiC wrote: I would just like to say it's hilariously stupid when non-terran players say terran players need to stop doing helion openings. There is a reason helion opening have been the go to build for more than a year. They give you warnings against a multitude of all ins and are the only real way to counter roach/bane or bane busts. Try holdings those with marines in a bunker. Only marine king can do that :D
More bunkers, and more depots :D
Protoss relies on gates to block, make barracks to block The scary thing is watching shit blow up, once the banelings are dead you are good to go.
I think non terrans feel that Terran has had the same builds for a very very very long time with little variation on how to get there or when to go for a particular composition.
For us non-Terrans, we have gone through different stylistic periods and while a composition might seem the same or similar, how we get there and how we deal with things is different. Granted, tech switching for Terran is more difficult than for Zerg, and as far as basic units, its easier for toss to choose stalkers or zealots at different times thanks to WG. However, terran always seems to go rax-expo-fact-hellions-tank-medivac/bio.
I dont see hellion drops, I dont see bio -- early third, secure 6 gas into mech. The only time I ever see the bio into mech is from MKP sometimes. Although I think he feels he is better at bio/mech attrition style against Zerg because his micro is so good and he does it more often.
The biggest problem MIGHT be fast 3 hatch zerg with many queens. Its already a problem in PvZ to a certain extent where you need either a really good 2 base all in, or a really fast 3rd to hold. It might also be in creep spread TvZ since Terrans never make mobile detection. The most worrisome thing is how fast Zerg can get an econ up and how much they can make off of their 3 base in terms of roach or ling bling or how fast they can tech to hive. The super quick econ from 3 hatch, 4th hatch (macro) with inject means so many units can come out O.O
You have no idea what you are talking about. You can't compare the races like that, its just stupid. If you go for a rax and bunker wall, you'll need to invest so many resources into it that it will severely delay your gas and thus your tech. Plus you won't be able to benefit from add-ons on some maps in certain positions. And add-ons are a big thing for terran, you need them to tech up and to get out superior units.
Also if you delay your gas and tech by that long you can kiss your map presence goodbye because the zerg will be more then happy to get his fast 3rd and drone up knowing that you can't harass him any time soon, and even if you want to, the moment your bio leaves your base he will see it with either a overlord or a scouting ling and he'll prepare adequate defenses back at home.
Not to mention that a protoss wall doesn't actually stop a baneling bust alone, its the units behind the wall that act as the deterrent and real stopping power. If you see a bane bust coming you first FF the pylon where the entrance usually is, and if he wants to destroy your GW or Forge you FF those areas as soon as the buildings die all the while warping in more sentries to hold, building more cannons and getting out your Immortal or Void Ray to help hold that.
If a zerg decides to bust a terran wall, the rax is going down no matter what, you won't know its coming because you gave up map presence. You scan need to scan, and even then there is a 50% chance you won't see it depending on where he put it and where you scan, (if you scan nat and he put it in the main, or vice versa). After the rax/raxes are down (depending if he focused his banelings in the joints between raxes), he will flood your nat with roaches, lings, banes and do economy damage. You have a high chance to die because you don't have marauders (you can't put add-ons on raxes that are part of the wall and even if you did he could have sniped them over and over with lings), and you'll only have un-upgraded marines. You might not even have tanks by that then because you delayed your gas and tech by so much to make that kind of a wall.
And why go bio into mech with 6 gas? Pure mech sucks versus zerg, its been shown time and time again that it can easily be taken apart by mass roaches and roach drops, it kills mech before it can even get off the ground. The zerg can abuse the mobility of his roaches to just rip apart mech the same way TvT bio does. The maps are now a days so big that a slow push mech is incredibly hard to execute and not get killed by back stabs, not to mention pure mech also sucks against Brood Lords.
Bio-mech or pure bio are way, way better.
Seriously how many times do people need to come up with not well thought up and stupid suggestions like these? Suggestions that can be so easily dismantled by some basic game knowledge and common sense.
Rax walls can be a deterrent sometimes. Look at MKP vs Stephano from MLG, on entombed valley. Stephano was readying up a roach/ling/bane timing but he drops it because MKP had a full rax wall. Losing all the banes to crack the raxes from that position is far to inefficient for him.
However rax walls aren't something you can do all the time because of roaches. Unless you have a tank or something then you can't really attack a roach that is shooting a rax (unless you put a marauder in a bunker behind each individual rax which is silly). It works if you have a ramp at your natural that's good for that sort of thing like entombed or ohana or maybe antiga in a stretch. Not much use on daybreak or cloud kingdom for example. It's also a bit of a tell just having a load of raxes where anyone could see them (psst, I'm making a lotta marines!)
You can construct a depot wall + a bunker out the front of your natural, which you should do eventually so you can seal your nat from ling counters. When it comes to defending shit, it's great vs roach or roach ling attacks because they can't break through and feast on SCV's but if they're doing one of those obnoxious really quick mass ling styles then you'll have 36 lings up in there before you can finish the wall. And then you lose. You need the bunker to be tucked near the mins super close so your scvs can get on it before the lings do. Mass ling is only really a thing if you scout the zerg having gone hatch-gas-pool, so if he's gasless or later gas then you're probably ok. Probably.
I generally do not thrown in rax walls because of the inefficiency of add ons and the fact I don't really have that many raxes a lot of the time. If I'm going 1 rax FE into hellion/banshee then I don't have 3-4 raxes to wall off the nat. And making 3-4 raxes like that is just... silly. if I'm doing like a 1 rax FE into a hellion/bio timing then I want to have all my production in the main to decrease the chance tat he'll scout it.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Cyro wrote: 1 month isnt enough. Give it 3, maybe 6.
Hey, let's double the health and S for marines and give it six months to let Zerg and Protoss figure out new builds for the metagame.
do you see zerg dominating every single game? Last time I checked, Dreamhack, protoss mana won vs Dimaga Zerg.
be realistic please
Did we see terran dominating TvZ before the patch? To my knowledge top Z's and top T's were trading games quite equally. There were more top terrans than top zergs, but that's still true. Now the absolute top zergs (symbol, DRG) get terrans handed to them on a silver platter and its just facerolls.
The ovie buff is probably a good thing, the queen buff is an absolute disaster as someone that watches TvZ and it should be reverted asap.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Cyro wrote: 1 month isnt enough. Give it 3, maybe 6.
Hey, let's double the health and S for marines and give it six months to let Zerg and Protoss figure out new builds for the metagame.
do you see zerg dominating every single game? Last time I checked, Dreamhack, protoss mana won vs Dimaga Zerg.
be realistic please
Which I still don't understand how protoss all of a sudden took the lead in performance. I watch the games and I still don't believe it. WHY AREN'T WE TALKING ABOUT THE OBSERVER BUFF!
EPT
The scary thing is watching shit blow up, once the banelings are dead you are good to go. 
