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On June 14 2012 07:12 mcmartini wrote:
I would really like to see the widow mine become a factory upgrade for the reaper and have speed back for reapers as well. It would give the reapers a lot more use and with their low health they would be vulnerable and have to be constantly micro'd. It of course would hold a similar role to the vulture which I think Terran needs and it's obvious blizzard thinks this too by placing he widow mine in the game. But by adding the mine to the reaper it will utilize two units and I feel you would see reapers a lot more.
Widow mines on cliffhopping units would be hilariously broken.
I'd prefer the vulture to come back but that's not going to happen. Perhaps a health nerf to hellions but you can research a mine upgrade for them at a factory tech lab?
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On June 14 2012 07:12 mcmartini wrote:
I would really like to see the widow mine become a factory upgrade for the reaper and have speed back for reapers as well. It would give the reapers a lot more use and with their low health they would be vulnerable and have to be constantly micro'd. It of course would hold a similar role to the vulture which I think Terran needs and it's obvious blizzard thinks this too by placing he widow mine in the game. But by adding the mine to the reaper it will utilize two units and I feel you would see reapers a lot more.
The Reaper cliff jumps so wouldn't it be so much easier to abuse Widow Mines? You can sneak the Mines in so many places even without Medivacs.
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On June 14 2012 07:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:12 mcmartini wrote:
I would really like to see the widow mine become a factory upgrade for the reaper and have speed back for reapers as well. It would give the reapers a lot more use and with their low health they would be vulnerable and have to be constantly micro'd. It of course would hold a similar role to the vulture which I think Terran needs and it's obvious blizzard thinks this too by placing he widow mine in the game. But by adding the mine to the reaper it will utilize two units and I feel you would see reapers a lot more. The Reaper cliff jumps so wouldn't it be so much easier to abuse Widow Mines? You can sneak the Mines in so many places even without Medivacs.
True but as you said with Medivacs it would still be a pain. Can window lines currently be loaded into Medivacs? I just crept the reaper with its health regen won't be used but utilized with the reaper it would be. Obviously 1 mine per reaper and as a factory upgrade I think it would be possible to be denied as I said low health on reapers and with stalkers + range 5. Queens denying them would be very possible. Plus as its a factory upgrade you wouldn't really be getting speed + mine at the same time. Just have it as a significantly time upgrade. Up there between siege and stim time wise.
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On June 14 2012 07:12 mcmartini wrote:
I would really like to see the widow mine become a factory upgrade for the reaper and have speed back for reapers as well. It would give the reapers a lot more use and with their low health they would be vulnerable and have to be constantly micro'd. It of course would hold a similar role to the vulture which I think Terran needs and it's obvious blizzard thinks this too by placing he widow mine in the game. But by adding the mine to the reaper it will utilize two units and I feel you would see reapers a lot more.
I would rather see two things if they the unit concept doesn't work out in beta.
First is giving this as an upgrade to hellions. Each hellion will either have 1~2 widow mines to plant that will do less damage (100?) and possibly lower detonation time in return for friendly splash. It will be like the upgraded vulture/spider mine combo. Also gives the option of going blue flame OR mines, giving Ts a tactical decision.
OR give this in replacement of the HSM for the raven. Now what this is that the raven will launch a widow mine to a target instead of the HSM. The mine cannot be outrun but delayed by running the target unit away (so the speed of the mine will accelerate exponentially til it latches on).Once it latches on the widow mine will start the counter then detonate. Should do friendly splash.
On a sidenote, I also think they should get rid of HSM in HOTS for something along the lines of irritate but only affecting mech units. Like something that latches onto the mech unit and deals dps to it and surrounding mech units.
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On June 13 2012 14:14 lavit2099 wrote:
Nuke has a tiny red dot for the person to see. Widow Mine has a giant red circle atop the unit and counts to ten. I'm not the best micro'er in the game and ten seconds is about seven seconds longer than I'd need to split units to ensure that the explosions wouldn't hit non-mined units. I honestly prefer the Shredder to this. With the long-ass wind up time, I can't see it having any place really in pro games.
If the mine kills anything outside of a zealot/marine/zergling--then it has payed for itself.
At 75m 25g (double produced from a reactored Factory) it has automatically made a reactor hellion opening the counter to roach/bane bust.
It costs as much as a baneling. Repeat that with me, it costs as much as a baneling. The baneling will be better and killing large numbers of units (rines and zerglings for example) but when you simply want the fucker to die--widow mine has that in spades.
Sure it is easy to spot the big red dot, split your units properly, and hope that it didn't actually smack your units while in range of tank fire, or that you didn't get hit by them while engaging marauders who would slaughter your troops once they stop hitting back for the next 3-4 seconds (which is around 2-3 rounds of marauder attacks)
Its not spider mine, it won't stop people from blindly sending units at your flank, it won't prevent them from base racing you, etc...
But when they're used for their purpose, they will own.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Well, in WoL terrans needed to split marines, now... zerg must split all their units vs widow mines 
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On June 14 2012 10:50 Existor wrote:Well, in WoL terrans needed to split marines, now... zerg must split all their units vs widow mines
no just kill the unit
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DRG commented that the mines in the current build are really strong.
Flash says they are really powerful.
To those saying that the current widow mines are useless, you may want to rethink your position.
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On June 14 2012 11:00 SarcasmMonster wrote:DRG commented that the mines in the current build are really strong. Flash says they are really powerful. To those saying that the current widow mines are useless, you may want to rethink your position.
No, NEVER! We at TL never rethink our position on units we have never used. That is something that cannot happen!
P.S. Spider mines look beyond awesome. I think they might mix well with current bio, since they already do 200 damage. I can see a creative terran kiting over them to force the protoss removed the "mined" zealots. Since they don't do friendly fire, there is no reason not to.
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Taking a step back I am pretty impressed by the unit addition concepts for HotS. One adjustment I see that could be done is for the Tempest. As it stands, un-upgraded with 10 range, 45 dmg/60 dmg massive, 6 attack speed , (7.5 dps/10 dps massive) is extremely weak for a 300/300 unit, weaker then a single stalker for the most part though with a good hard upfront hit.
A key change could be to knock its base attack speed to 3, effective doubling its dps at 10 range. This would NOT fully apply to the range upgrade(Gravity Sling). Instead for the Gravity Sling the delay after firing would change on distance. At 22 range, attack speed or cool down after shot is 6. At 10 range the cool down is 3, and it would be linear depending on distance between 10 and 22, i.e. the point at which the shot is fired and the target unit is at distance of 16, the cool down til next shot would be 4.5. This change would make sure the tempest is not cripplingly weak when first built and yet not to strong in long range abuse due to higher dps.
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that's actually a really interesting fix. but i'm still of the opinion that they should tweak the carrier instead, give it longer range or something, anything, they haven't even touched it and it has far and away a more interesting game mechanic than the tempest. they should use the tempest model for a totally different type of unit, maybe even save it for LotV. but i guess the odds of it happening at this point are fairly small. someone needs to get together a really good explanation for why the carrier should stay in, including an explanation of why the tempest circa MLG anaheim doesn't seem to have much of a purpose either - so if you're gonna tweak one, why not the fan favorite with the more interesting game mechanic instead of the lazy burst dps with the pretty new model? and then get a bunch of signatures to send with it. seriously. i'm half-convinced they're pushing for the tempest simply because they couldn't think of any more new unit ideas for toss after the oracle.
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So far the best/most fun unit for terran still seems to be the spider mine. Even then, considering the 10 second delay, it's definitely not as good as other races' units. And it costs gas. It's a very very nerfed version of the spider mines.
I wish we could at least attach it to friendly units or something, to create a sacrificial terran baneling ...if not...boring unit that will be useless against pros. Kinda like the current carrier.
In fact the only highlight of the spider mine 2.0 is that it's not AS bad as raven's HSM.
Warhound is...good, although I'm not impressed by the lack of anti-air. It also makes ZERO sense that it costs less supply than the tank, despite having 60 more hit points and being much more powerful and mobile. Bascially its DPS is higher than the tank, it costs less supply, almost TWICE as little gas. If you can fit 4 of them in a medivac, that will be utterly retarded. I'm actually very surprised by the stats on this thing and wouldnt be surprised if P/Z whine nerf it into oblivion.
The fact that they are still keeping marine or/and thor as the main-anti air is very disappointing.
However, the units that take the retard cake are the Viper and the Oracle.
Oracle's abilities are simply WAY too good for what they do, and since the only tech building it requires is a stargate, you could gain a huge advantage on large maps by proxying and entombing someone's mineral line, at 6:30 into the game. Or you could have a 60 second cloak for your 6 gate attack slightly later. Equally as retarded. Only consolation, again, is that it's made of paper like the old warp prism. So it's likely to get whine buffed later into HotS.
Viper I don't even want to talk about, lest I incur the wrath of forum zergs (but I'll have to anyway). The unit is simply broken. It essentially has a darkswarm ability (and before you pedants tell me it's not the same, well, functionally yes, it is the same. It forces the other race to move out of the cloud), and a "pull this unit" into certain death instantly ability together. It's flying. And it has infinite energy from cheap-ass buildings like evo chambers. What you basically get is a unit with ~110 energy after 50 seconds.
So now Zerg will not only have the best positioning ability. They will also have an ability better than force field to NEGATE the enemy position.
It's ONLY downside is that bad players will need to be able to micro its Consume ability.
That being said, I fully expect the viper to be buffed in some way, probably making it faster or something, because it "can't keep up with zerglings on creep" or something.
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Can a battle hellion take on a zealot one on one -__-
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Really wish people would stop saying the Widow mines are useless.
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On June 14 2012 14:00 HeroMystic wrote:
Really wish people would stop saying the Widow mines are useless.
I think the misconception comes from the splash damage being so easy to avoid, but they tend to not realize that the unit is cost effective even without it.
They also have 5 range which makes them all the harder to avoid.
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widow mine is sick idea.. probably needS some tweaking. Warhound has to be the worst designed unit yet. Looking at how cheap and stupid it is im afraid its gonna break the game and terrans are just gonna be massing a move warhounds every game. Why not buff the tank?
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On June 14 2012 14:14 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 14:00 HeroMystic wrote:
Really wish people would stop saying the Widow mines are useless. I think the misconception comes from the splash damage being so easy to avoid, but they tend to not realize that the unit is cost effective even without it. They also have 5 range which makes them all the harder to avoid.
Plus they think it will be easy to micro the latched units out.. for one unit yes sure, but when 9~12 are latched by the mine in different positions in your deathball + the T army attacks, its going to be VERY difficult to mitigate the splash damage.
As for avoiding them, its always been easy to avoid spider mines too as long as their is detection/range units or some sort of cheap mine clearing unit (Zealot/marine/ling).
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Wish they made tank 2 supply
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Widow mines are going to suck against Brood Lords and Swarm Hosts. A single brood lord will destroy 2 widow mines with every shoot - one with damage, the other because the broodling will activate it. A small pack of Swarm hosts could decimate a whole line of mines with their expendable locusts.
Protoss could use Hallucinations. If the mines cause damage to allies, Terrans could use marines.
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Looking at the battle report, you can quite clearly see that while borrowed, the mines have the "attack" button. This means you can pick and choose what unit you want it to attach to, or, leave them on auto attack. This means you can "hide" them when a pack of zergling run over and only attack a more valuble unit, if you have the APM and awareness to do so.
For those who played, is this accurate?
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EPT
