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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:38 ArchAngelSC wrote: Has the fact that protoss is going to have unlimited chrono boost to use on probes or whatever been discussed yet? I doubt the ability will function like that. Even if it did, Blizzard will correct it quickly. They normally make abilites way to powerful and then tone them down during beta. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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LucidityDark
United Kingdom139 Posts
The problem is, once terran gets ghosts will immortals even counter warhounds? I'm looking for something that can deal with them but with protoss air being completely unviable against terran, I'm worried. | ||
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Galaxy1again
United States34 Posts
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kranten
Netherlands236 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:59 Raid wrote: I like how everyone is argueing about how OP the terran units will be while it is alarming out ridiculous the Viper and Mothership core are looking. I think the reason why blizz put the mothership core there is to make pvp more interesting than allin vs allin... but seriously i don't think any race will be able to allin a toss with that thing, and it seems almost impossible to catch a protoss out of position with that recall ability. It seems SC2 is moving towards big engagement vs big engagement types of army as terran bio looks useless compared to what mech has to offer. I love mech but it scares me that it will be the only thing terran will be doing because its just so much better. Well they didn't nerf bio, and the new units won't affect bio play. (Except maybe more storm) So it should be more or less still viable. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On June 13 2012 04:22 Kishin2 wrote: Can you widow mine your own units and still have the aoe damage when the timer runs out? This. Also, does the timer donut overlay visible to enemies if you widow mine your own units? | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
On June 13 2012 04:11 kranten wrote: Well they didn't nerf bio, and the new units won't affect bio play. (Except maybe more storm) So it should be more or less still viable. I dont think I was questioning the viablity of bio but the fact that mech is 10x better in HOTS than bio, there is always a better reason to go mech, it is much easier to control mech, and the lategame is always favored to go mech so why would anyone go bio anymore.. Maybe in legacy of the void will the return of more bioplay comeback but it seems like mech is just so much better in all aspects. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On June 13 2012 04:05 LucidityDark wrote: The warhound just looks so amazing against protoss considering that basically everything but the zealot is mechanical. I am worried that stalkers are going to be completely useless vs a terran ground mech army with it having more health, deal MUCH more damage, while being almost as fast. The battle mode hellions I can imagine being manageable. The problem is, once terran gets ghosts will immortals even counter warhounds? I'm looking for something that can deal with them but with protoss air being completely unviable against terran, I'm worried. There's a lot of things Warhounds aren't very good against. Chargelots will be great against them because they have no concussive shells or stim to kite; Force Fields will be good against them too, complementing chargelots; Templars with storm will be decent against them, Range upgraded Colossi will be good if you position them correctly, Void Rays will be good, Archons will be good, Immortals might be decent, Tempests deal awful DPS but should help anyway. | ||
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Inkstorm
United States10 Posts
On June 13 2012 01:45 ScoSteSal wrote: + Show Spoiler + good points and analysis. However, as I understand the activation range is six, right? therefore the only way you can kill it without losses is with units of 7 range or more (very rare) & a detector or with rines/lings/workers that trade well or with immortals that take little damage from it Also, if it attaches to any unit other than those it trades well, and since it's production cost is pretty small, it served its purpose and weakened whatever attack it attached to. Additionally, not only did it trade well with the enemy attack, it also sapped some of the enemy player's attention or else obliterated the enemy push Also, even if you get a colossus (upgraded)/spine crawler/thor/siege tank//broodlord/swarm host/tempest/mothership and a detector, you have to tiptoe through the minefield to be able to snipe them from out of their range, thus taking even more attention and time (for instance, if you wanted to slow an enemy push while your economic or tech advantage took effect) Again, trading a widow mine for even 1 roach or marauder or ovie or zealot or baneling or hellion is at worst a meh trade that took some of your opponent's attention and in the middle a decent trade that met or barely exceeded the widow mine's cost while sapping that attention or at best a massive blow to the enemy force. According to the post below as well as others littered throughout the forums, the widow mine has a activation range of 5. Immortals, voidrays, and, most importantly, stalkers all have an attack range of 6 which makes matters complicated. How many times would you risk investing 75 minerals and 25 gas into something that might be nothing more than a creep tumor that gives sight? - - - - - - - - - On June 13 2012 04:05 LucidityDark wrote: + Show Spoiler + The warhound just looks so amazing against protoss considering that basically everything but the zealot is mechanical. I am worried that stalkers are going to be completely useless vs a terran ground mech army with it having more health, deal MUCH more damage, while being almost as fast. The battle mode hellions I can imagine being manageable. The problem is, once terran gets ghosts will immortals even counter warhounds? I'm looking for something that can deal with them but with protoss air being completely unviable against terran, I'm worried. The warhound is the new incentive to make Terran players choose mech in the match-up against Protoss. If the Warhound didn't counter a variety of Protoss units while creating another buffer zone for tanks then everyone would continue to play bio. - - - - - - - - - - On June 13 2012 04:22 Kishin2 wrote: Can you widow mine your own units and still have the aoe damage when the timer runs out? Widow Mines don't detonate if the unit they are attached to is destroyed. The detonations are also tricky in the regards that a mine that explodes in the air will only affect air and vice versa. So... you'd have to either use a marauder or cloaked ghost in hopes of dealing with land units and I can't imagine the risk there is worth the reward. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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newbornducky
42 Posts
Protoss: Tempest: For people who say tempest sucks because its dps sucks, you need to realise that this unit isn't intended to be a dps unit. It can be used in harrassing bases (I think everyone got that part) and it can also be used in a direct engagement (or snipe them when their army walks around the map) to snipe key units. Guys, the tempest does 49 damage in one hit, meaning that 2 tempest kills an infestor in one shot, 3 kills a viper in one shot, 4 kills a broodlord in one shot (this doesn't even count upgrade). In a direct engagement, if you have 2 tempest in your army, you can snipe an infestor as they walk towards your army, then another one right when the engage starts and a guarantee infestor (or other key units) kill every 6 second. And you can always send a few tempest to follow their army around, and the opponent will keep losing important units every 6 second when the tempests are almost untouchable (22 range is huge). With some twist in cost and supply, this can be a very good and scary unit in good hands (and of course they suck if you just 1a them). Oracle: Not much to say, they are just good, period. Some small twist on the cloak timing and the area of entomb may be needed, but overall very good unit in the hands of a good player. Mothership Core: More like a macro mechanic than a unit. It may need some twist (like energize and may be the energy cost of its other spell). Otherwise a very good concept and a very helpful addition to protoss. Questions: Can you build another mothership core when you upgrade your mothership core to mothership? If not, then losing energize can be huge until late late game. Zerg: Swarm host: I will say this is currently the best unit in the expand. Zoning, seiging, free units, and force detection all in one. It can help zerg break turtling opponents in midgame or it can protect your base. It does very good dps (to both ground and air) while providing meat shield for your ranged units. It just gives zerg so many more options that I will say it "completes" the zerg race. Question: Do the locusts benefit from missile upgrade or melee upgrade? If it benefits from missile upgrade, it seems to work very well with the new speed hydra. Viper: Good addition to zerg, although I think it can get some twist. Abduct is main ability of the viper. Although it is obviously very good, it is not the best mechanic in the world. I understand that blizzard wants to break up deathball style of play (tempest and abduct both work very well in this regard), but depending on the exact way of how it works, it can be very frustration for both the user and the person that get pulled. I hope blizzard can change the mechanic of the spell while making sure the spell does what they want the spell to do. Blinding cloud effecting only bio makes the spell kind of limited, but it is still very useful in certain match ups. It will be the game changer for ZvZ and ZvT and does nothing to ZvP. ZvZ can be very interesting with this new spell (and other additions to the zerg race). This also helps ZvT a lot unless terran stops going marines (which I doubt, marines are just too good lol). Consume on the other hand is very creative, good job blizzard. Overall viper is a very good unit, but it probably needs some major twist. Question: Does blinding cloud still prevent units from casting inside the cloud? If so, this spell will find some use in ZvP and we can probably see some micro war between casters in all of the vZ (viper infestor vs viper infestor seems very fun) match ups. Also what is the range of Abduct? Is it 9 or 7? Speed hydra: Nothing to say, it is just how hydras should be…… Burrow Charge: So finally they don’t get stuck? Knockback may be a little too much, but seriously these guys deserve this. Terran: Battle Hellion: Although they are very ugly, it does what it needs to do, meat shields and mech’s answers to zealot. Warhound: Yet another factory unit designed to “complete” mech. The thor and warhound thing probably really troubled blizzard (much like the hydra and roach problem back in beta of WoL.) I think this unit (and the lovely thor) will go through lots of changes in beta. Hopefully they do a good job this time and this unit won’t end up like the hydra in WoL. Widow Mine: This is a very good idea. Although some twists will be needed on the numbers (cost, supply, damage, attach range, explosion countdown time, etc) to make it work (or make it not overpower), the concept itself is very good, especially when it works on both air and ground units. If blizzard does it correctly, I can see that the widow mine will get a lot of showtime in all of the vT match ups. Question: What is the current attachment range of the mine? Some people say 5, some people say 6. Reaper change: It probably won’t make a huge impact on most of the match ups, but it is nice to see the reapers back. Redline Reactor (Battle Cruiser): BC deserves something better than this…… Side note: I think a buff (or some spell changes) to raven will be great for Terran Overall, I think blizzard is heading to the correct direction. I can’t wait for beta! | ||
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Lavit2099
United States390 Posts
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ballasdontcry
Canada595 Posts
On June 13 2012 14:14 lavit2099 wrote: Nuke has a tiny red dot for the person to see. Widow Mine has a giant red circle atop the unit and counts to ten. I'm not the best micro'er in the game and ten seconds is about seven seconds longer than I'd need to split units to ensure that the explosions wouldn't hit non-mined units. I honestly prefer the Shredder to this. With the long-ass wind up time, I can't see it having any place really in pro games. so for sure the opponent sees this? because from all the demo clips and gameplay i've seen it's never in player view, just in "everyone" view, so it's kinda hard for me to tell whether or not that countdown clock can be seen by the opponent too. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On June 13 2012 14:14 lavit2099 wrote: Nuke has a tiny red dot for the person to see. Widow Mine has a giant red circle atop the unit and counts to ten. I'm not the best micro'er in the game and ten seconds is about seven seconds longer than I'd need to split units to ensure that the explosions wouldn't hit non-mined units. I honestly prefer the Shredder to this. With the long-ass wind up time, I can't see it having any place really in pro games. The widow mine is designed to be cost effective against most units, even if it only hits one unit. The threat of AOE damage is mostly just to force micro from your opponent, most of the time it won't actually deal much splash damage and they are well aware of this. | ||
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Lavit2099
United States390 Posts
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
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Lavit2099
United States390 Posts
WTB HoTs beta pl0x :-( | ||
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
On June 13 2012 04:05 LucidityDark wrote: The warhound just looks so amazing against protoss considering that basically everything but the zealot is mechanical. I am worried that stalkers are going to be completely useless vs a terran ground mech army with it having more health, deal MUCH more damage, while being almost as fast. The battle mode hellions I can imagine being manageable. The problem is, once terran gets ghosts will immortals even counter warhounds? I'm looking for something that can deal with them but with protoss air being completely unviable against terran, I'm worried. You're worried so early? There isn't even a beta son! I'm pretty sure Archons are not mechanical (I think they are massive). And HTs are bio. DTs are not mechanical either. The Warhound doesn't shoot air right? So that makes guardians, Tempest and the rest of the toss air arsenal pretty good against warhounds. Vikings are good anti air, but so are Toss AoE like storm against clumped up vikings. With Tempest range of 22 you can snipe vikings all day son! I think all units sound pretty good right now (I play terran), from all races. So I don't understand why you are worried? And let's be honest...stalkers have ALWAYS been quite terrible in early and mid game bio terran in TvP  So there, your fears are gone! | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13391 Posts
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