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On June 19 2012 02:48 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 02:39 zmansman17 wrote:On June 19 2012 01:26 Jaegeru wrote:On June 19 2012 01:09 CaptainCrush wrote:On June 19 2012 01:01 monkybone wrote:
Yeah, the patch was severe. But stop playing? Are you crazy? I stopped playing too, terran is really just not a fun race anymore... Their idea of balance is getting a little absurd. Agreed, it's impossible to play vs a good zerg unless you can play like MKP. Off-raced as Zerg most of yesterday and that was honestly the most fun I've had playing starcraft in bloody ages. Yeah over the last 2 seasons I have done some experimenting since I have heard that Protoss and Zerg are harder to play than Terran and Terran players are "whining" and should "just learn to adapt". As a little background information, I've been a top 8 master Terran for 5 seasons, peaking at Rank 1 master Terran last season. Anyway, so 2 seasons ago, I took up Protoss and spent some time in 1v1 obs game learning to play it. Got another account and quickly hit the same rank and point value as my Terran and then actually eclipsed that point value. This really upset me because I Didn't even think I was good at Protoss yet I was able to attain more points than I had whilst dedicating myself to Terran. I also tried Zerg and read up on injecting methods, timing, etc. and also was easily able to hit top 8 master. I think I could actually go further with Zerg than either Terran or Protoss, but I don't like the idea of jumping on the bandwagon or taking the easy way out. Hence why I have stayed with Terran through everything. In any case, I concluded that TvZ is insanely more difficult for the Terran player and even TvP, I find it much easier to play Protoss. Both of the latter races permit you to sit back, defend, tech up and create an informed and extremely strong unit comp. Terran relies on hit-and-run tactics, which, if they do little to no damage, you are actually behind. And at this point in the game, why should those drops ever do damage if you are a good player? You should know when what times they should come, what units to have in position, where to have Overlords or Observers positioned, where to drop cannons, or a group of ling/bane present. I am really looking forward to HotS so that Terran gets less micro intensive units so we can dedicate more time to sitting back like the other races. And indeed, David Kim mentioned this very point in a recent interview that Terran should be able to do this. I agree with a lot of what you said except the last part. It shouldn't be terrans that get less micro-intensive units, its zerg and protoss that need to be re-worked so their units scale better with micro, and their new units should require much more micro. If not then this game becomes a boring attack-move feast, micro and micro scaling units are the best thing in SC2, all compositions and all match-ups that require micro are the best. TvP, when it actually gets to the level of MKP vs PartinG, those beautiful back and forth fights, the stutter step, the splits the storm dodging, the flanks. TvZ in its heyday of ling, bing & muta, stutter step, marine splits, bane splits, focus fire, magic box. No player should have to play substantially better to beat another player, but making more attack-move friendly units to balance this out is NOT the right way to do it.
Better is a subjective and abused term on TL. Because APM is the only stat we can track, we become hyper focused on it. Decision making isn't even factored in. No one credits the number of games a protoss or zerg had to play to learn all the in's and outs of strong macro openings. And there is no blaming anyone when this happens, you just get to go back to your replay and see what you missed. The number of months that I put up with losing over and over learning how to 1 gate expand against all forms of agressive terran openings are not counted. The ability to work with mininal scouting information, know when to and not to pull probes against an early push, to know when drops are comming and where from and all the other things that are needed to get to the late game. There are a lot of players on TL who want to deminish to make themselves feel better about not advancing at the pace they want.
HotS should open the game up a bit and allow for more play styles. I am looking forward to cutting my teeth on it and seeing how they work into the match ups.
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Terran has always been propped up by early cheese. To be honest, since day1 it was clear if you went into unit tester, that there was no way for T to contest late game Z/P straight up, especially considering macro mechanics. The whole race is tethered to the efficiency of bio.
The thing is that there is probably only a very few cheese/early pressure that would work against a modern Zerg. Most of those things that Zergs were whining about for months, all could be solved by Queen (pre-buff) play. Yet Z players would not shut up about how difficult it was to play ZvT for the first year, when the most crucial piece, that was largely unchanged for 2 years, was not used to the same extent.
So here we are today, with the vast majority of T units largely useless, and pretty much everything explored. The only exception, before meching in HOTS, is mass ghosts, which I think there is still some merit.
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On June 19 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 02:48 Destructicon wrote:On June 19 2012 02:39 zmansman17 wrote:On June 19 2012 01:26 Jaegeru wrote:On June 19 2012 01:09 CaptainCrush wrote:On June 19 2012 01:01 monkybone wrote:
Yeah, the patch was severe. But stop playing? Are you crazy? I stopped playing too, terran is really just not a fun race anymore... Their idea of balance is getting a little absurd. Agreed, it's impossible to play vs a good zerg unless you can play like MKP. Off-raced as Zerg most of yesterday and that was honestly the most fun I've had playing starcraft in bloody ages. Yeah over the last 2 seasons I have done some experimenting since I have heard that Protoss and Zerg are harder to play than Terran and Terran players are "whining" and should "just learn to adapt". As a little background information, I've been a top 8 master Terran for 5 seasons, peaking at Rank 1 master Terran last season. Anyway, so 2 seasons ago, I took up Protoss and spent some time in 1v1 obs game learning to play it. Got another account and quickly hit the same rank and point value as my Terran and then actually eclipsed that point value. This really upset me because I Didn't even think I was good at Protoss yet I was able to attain more points than I had whilst dedicating myself to Terran. I also tried Zerg and read up on injecting methods, timing, etc. and also was easily able to hit top 8 master. I think I could actually go further with Zerg than either Terran or Protoss, but I don't like the idea of jumping on the bandwagon or taking the easy way out. Hence why I have stayed with Terran through everything. In any case, I concluded that TvZ is insanely more difficult for the Terran player and even TvP, I find it much easier to play Protoss. Both of the latter races permit you to sit back, defend, tech up and create an informed and extremely strong unit comp. Terran relies on hit-and-run tactics, which, if they do little to no damage, you are actually behind. And at this point in the game, why should those drops ever do damage if you are a good player? You should know when what times they should come, what units to have in position, where to have Overlords or Observers positioned, where to drop cannons, or a group of ling/bane present. I am really looking forward to HotS so that Terran gets less micro intensive units so we can dedicate more time to sitting back like the other races. And indeed, David Kim mentioned this very point in a recent interview that Terran should be able to do this. I agree with a lot of what you said except the last part. It shouldn't be terrans that get less micro-intensive units, its zerg and protoss that need to be re-worked so their units scale better with micro, and their new units should require much more micro. If not then this game becomes a boring attack-move feast, micro and micro scaling units are the best thing in SC2, all compositions and all match-ups that require micro are the best. TvP, when it actually gets to the level of MKP vs PartinG, those beautiful back and forth fights, the stutter step, the splits the storm dodging, the flanks. TvZ in its heyday of ling, bing & muta, stutter step, marine splits, bane splits, focus fire, magic box. No player should have to play substantially better to beat another player, but making more attack-move friendly units to balance this out is NOT the right way to do it. Better is a subjective and abused term on TL. Because APM is the only stat we can track, we become hyper focused on it. Decision making isn't even factored in. No one credits the number of games a protoss or zerg had to play to learn all the in's and outs of strong macro openings. And there is no blaming anyone when this happens, you just get to go back to your replay and see what you missed. The number of months that I put up with losing over and over learning how to 1 gate expand against all forms of agressive terran openings are not counted. The ability to work with mininal scouting information, know when to and not to pull probes against an early push, to know when drops are comming and where from and all the other things that are needed to get to the late game. There are a lot of players on TL who want to deminish to make themselves feel better about not advancing at the pace they want. HotS should open the game up a bit and allow for more play styles. I am looking forward to cutting my teeth on it and seeing how they work into the match ups.
You're right, no one gives Z/P players credit for their hard work learning the game. And certainly no T players have an ounce of decision making or macro ability.
And we were never aware of any of this, despite the constant spewing of this sort of nonsense since beta.
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On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF.
LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing
Nothing new in these matchups!
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4713 Posts
On June 19 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 02:48 Destructicon wrote:On June 19 2012 02:39 zmansman17 wrote:On June 19 2012 01:26 Jaegeru wrote:On June 19 2012 01:09 CaptainCrush wrote:On June 19 2012 01:01 monkybone wrote:
Yeah, the patch was severe. But stop playing? Are you crazy? I stopped playing too, terran is really just not a fun race anymore... Their idea of balance is getting a little absurd. Agreed, it's impossible to play vs a good zerg unless you can play like MKP. Off-raced as Zerg most of yesterday and that was honestly the most fun I've had playing starcraft in bloody ages. Yeah over the last 2 seasons I have done some experimenting since I have heard that Protoss and Zerg are harder to play than Terran and Terran players are "whining" and should "just learn to adapt". As a little background information, I've been a top 8 master Terran for 5 seasons, peaking at Rank 1 master Terran last season. Anyway, so 2 seasons ago, I took up Protoss and spent some time in 1v1 obs game learning to play it. Got another account and quickly hit the same rank and point value as my Terran and then actually eclipsed that point value. This really upset me because I Didn't even think I was good at Protoss yet I was able to attain more points than I had whilst dedicating myself to Terran. I also tried Zerg and read up on injecting methods, timing, etc. and also was easily able to hit top 8 master. I think I could actually go further with Zerg than either Terran or Protoss, but I don't like the idea of jumping on the bandwagon or taking the easy way out. Hence why I have stayed with Terran through everything. In any case, I concluded that TvZ is insanely more difficult for the Terran player and even TvP, I find it much easier to play Protoss. Both of the latter races permit you to sit back, defend, tech up and create an informed and extremely strong unit comp. Terran relies on hit-and-run tactics, which, if they do little to no damage, you are actually behind. And at this point in the game, why should those drops ever do damage if you are a good player? You should know when what times they should come, what units to have in position, where to have Overlords or Observers positioned, where to drop cannons, or a group of ling/bane present. I am really looking forward to HotS so that Terran gets less micro intensive units so we can dedicate more time to sitting back like the other races. And indeed, David Kim mentioned this very point in a recent interview that Terran should be able to do this. I agree with a lot of what you said except the last part. It shouldn't be terrans that get less micro-intensive units, its zerg and protoss that need to be re-worked so their units scale better with micro, and their new units should require much more micro. If not then this game becomes a boring attack-move feast, micro and micro scaling units are the best thing in SC2, all compositions and all match-ups that require micro are the best. TvP, when it actually gets to the level of MKP vs PartinG, those beautiful back and forth fights, the stutter step, the splits the storm dodging, the flanks. TvZ in its heyday of ling, bing & muta, stutter step, marine splits, bane splits, focus fire, magic box. No player should have to play substantially better to beat another player, but making more attack-move friendly units to balance this out is NOT the right way to do it. Better is a subjective and abused term on TL. Because APM is the only stat we can track, we become hyper focused on it. Decision making isn't even factored in. No one credits the number of games a protoss or zerg had to play to learn all the in's and outs of strong macro openings. And there is no blaming anyone when this happens, you just get to go back to your replay and see what you missed. The number of months that I put up with losing over and over learning how to 1 gate expand against all forms of agressive terran openings are not counted. The ability to work with mininal scouting information, know when to and not to pull probes against an early push, to know when drops are comming and where from and all the other things that are needed to get to the late game. There are a lot of players on TL who want to deminish to make themselves feel better about not advancing at the pace they want. HotS should open the game up a bit and allow for more play styles. I am looking forward to cutting my teeth on it and seeing how they work into the match ups.
I'm not arguing against that, at the moment I'm trying to improve too, so I can feel the pain of exploring your build, learning it inside and out, and how to modify it to work against anything, how to scout and counter certain strategies from small tells and minimal scouting. But to a certain extent every race does that, however not all races have to do what terrans do. Terrans are the only race with only ranged units, they deal lots of damage but are very squishy, thus the majority of them benefit from micro and superb multi-tasking.
While all races benefit form multi-tasking, they don't to the level terrans have to. A multi-pronged harass, a double drop and direct attack on a certain location, are very hard to pull of for a terran because all the attacks need to be microed to be successful, all the while they need to also macro back at home.
Again, I am not saying the other races are a-move and don't benefit from micro at all, or that they aren't required to micro to win, because they do, but compared to the terrans, its vastly less. And again this comes down to the basic design of terran units, ranged, low hp, high damage, high risk and high reward.
HoTS may open the game up a bit, but the way it does that really doesn't appeal to me, I really would prefer if every race was made more micro and multi-tasking intensive rather then terrans just given the easy way out.
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On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups!
Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later.
Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard.
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One thing i have noticed when watching dreamhack TvZ's is that in first 200/200 clash zerg always has 5000/2000 banked while terran has no money. 200 vs 200 goes pretty much even in units lost, but then zerg will just kill terran with reinforcements/remax.
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On June 19 2012 04:05 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups! Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later. Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard.
Yeah bro, I mean, TvP has evolved massively, and is not at all completely identical to how people played in the Beta,
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On June 19 2012 04:12 mazqo wrote:
One thing i have noticed when watching dreamhack TvZ's is that in first 200/200 clash zerg always has 5000/2000 banked while terran has no money. 200 vs 200 goes pretty much even in units lost, but then zerg will just kill terran with reinforcements/remax.
This is indeed the problem atm. Zerg armies are too strong, especially 2 compositions:
- infestor ultra ling baneling
- infestor broodlord corruptor
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On June 19 2012 04:24 monkybone wrote:
It's kind of sad to see so many Terrans despair. But if you are despairing in diamond league or below you should really get a grip yourself. Hitting the wall in high masters is something else.
It doesn't matter what league the complainers are in. What actually matters is a fair game, because people actually make money from it. Furthermore, there are SC2 fans that probably don't play the game as much as they watch it, and they just want to see a fair game play out to enjoy from. It's not fun to watch if it isn't a fair game, because someone can win not because of skill but because of imbalance. The viewers are the same people who are funding the MLGs and the Dreamhacks.
I watch SC2 streams regularly on Twitch TV, but lately I have lost motivation to watch them knowing of the likely imbalance.
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On June 19 2012 04:23 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:05 Blyadischa wrote:On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups! Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later. Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard. Yeah bro, I mean, TvP has evolved massively, and is not at all completely identical to how people played in the Beta,
People used to mech and use bio tank vs protoss. Then tanks were nerfed. Then they tried using thor strategies. Then thors were nerfed. Even then there were a few holdouts trying mech vs protoss, but then hellions were nerfed, cementing the fact that blizzard doesn't want anything other than mawines mawauders and medivacs in tvp.
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On June 19 2012 04:02 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:On June 19 2012 02:48 Destructicon wrote:On June 19 2012 02:39 zmansman17 wrote:On June 19 2012 01:26 Jaegeru wrote:On June 19 2012 01:09 CaptainCrush wrote:On June 19 2012 01:01 monkybone wrote:
Yeah, the patch was severe. But stop playing? Are you crazy? I stopped playing too, terran is really just not a fun race anymore... Their idea of balance is getting a little absurd. Agreed, it's impossible to play vs a good zerg unless you can play like MKP. Off-raced as Zerg most of yesterday and that was honestly the most fun I've had playing starcraft in bloody ages. Yeah over the last 2 seasons I have done some experimenting since I have heard that Protoss and Zerg are harder to play than Terran and Terran players are "whining" and should "just learn to adapt". As a little background information, I've been a top 8 master Terran for 5 seasons, peaking at Rank 1 master Terran last season. Anyway, so 2 seasons ago, I took up Protoss and spent some time in 1v1 obs game learning to play it. Got another account and quickly hit the same rank and point value as my Terran and then actually eclipsed that point value. This really upset me because I Didn't even think I was good at Protoss yet I was able to attain more points than I had whilst dedicating myself to Terran. I also tried Zerg and read up on injecting methods, timing, etc. and also was easily able to hit top 8 master. I think I could actually go further with Zerg than either Terran or Protoss, but I don't like the idea of jumping on the bandwagon or taking the easy way out. Hence why I have stayed with Terran through everything. In any case, I concluded that TvZ is insanely more difficult for the Terran player and even TvP, I find it much easier to play Protoss. Both of the latter races permit you to sit back, defend, tech up and create an informed and extremely strong unit comp. Terran relies on hit-and-run tactics, which, if they do little to no damage, you are actually behind. And at this point in the game, why should those drops ever do damage if you are a good player? You should know when what times they should come, what units to have in position, where to have Overlords or Observers positioned, where to drop cannons, or a group of ling/bane present. I am really looking forward to HotS so that Terran gets less micro intensive units so we can dedicate more time to sitting back like the other races. And indeed, David Kim mentioned this very point in a recent interview that Terran should be able to do this. I agree with a lot of what you said except the last part. It shouldn't be terrans that get less micro-intensive units, its zerg and protoss that need to be re-worked so their units scale better with micro, and their new units should require much more micro. If not then this game becomes a boring attack-move feast, micro and micro scaling units are the best thing in SC2, all compositions and all match-ups that require micro are the best. TvP, when it actually gets to the level of MKP vs PartinG, those beautiful back and forth fights, the stutter step, the splits the storm dodging, the flanks. TvZ in its heyday of ling, bing & muta, stutter step, marine splits, bane splits, focus fire, magic box. No player should have to play substantially better to beat another player, but making more attack-move friendly units to balance this out is NOT the right way to do it. Better is a subjective and abused term on TL. Because APM is the only stat we can track, we become hyper focused on it. Decision making isn't even factored in. No one credits the number of games a protoss or zerg had to play to learn all the in's and outs of strong macro openings. And there is no blaming anyone when this happens, you just get to go back to your replay and see what you missed. The number of months that I put up with losing over and over learning how to 1 gate expand against all forms of agressive terran openings are not counted. The ability to work with mininal scouting information, know when to and not to pull probes against an early push, to know when drops are comming and where from and all the other things that are needed to get to the late game. There are a lot of players on TL who want to deminish to make themselves feel better about not advancing at the pace they want. HotS should open the game up a bit and allow for more play styles. I am looking forward to cutting my teeth on it and seeing how they work into the match ups. I'm not arguing against that, at the moment I'm trying to improve too, so I can feel the pain of exploring your build, learning it inside and out, and how to modify it to work against anything, how to scout and counter certain strategies from small tells and minimal scouting. But to a certain extent every race does that, however not all races have to do what terrans do. Terrans are the only race with only ranged units, they deal lots of damage but are very squishy, thus the majority of them benefit from micro and superb multi-tasking. While all races benefit form multi-tasking, they don't to the level terrans have to. A multi-pronged harass, a double drop and direct attack on a certain location, are very hard to pull of for a terran because all the attacks need to be microed to be successful, all the while they need to also macro back at home.Again, I am not saying the other races are a-move and don't benefit from micro at all, or that they aren't required to micro to win, because they do, but compared to the terrans, its vastly less. And again this comes down to the basic design of terran units, ranged, low hp, high damage, high risk and high reward. HoTS may open the game up a bit, but the way it does that really doesn't appeal to me, I really would prefer if every race was made more micro and multi-tasking intensive rather then terrans just given the easy way out.
What? They don't need to be micro'ed. Rarely are they ever micro'ed fully -- even at code S level. I also didn't know Terran was the ONLY race that had macro mechanics that forced their attention away from battles. Sucks that they can still tab through hotkeys and produce without averting their attention as long as they have the supply.
Terran benefit from micro but you give them way too much credit. Especially at a level that's probably irrelevant.
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4713 Posts
On June 19 2012 04:33 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:23 Toadvine wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 Blyadischa wrote:On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups! Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later. Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard. Yeah bro, I mean, TvP has evolved massively, and is not at all completely identical to how people played in the Beta, People used to mech and use bio tank vs protoss. Then tanks were nerfed. Then they tried using thor strategies. Then thors were nerfed. Even then there were a few holdouts trying mech vs protoss, but then hellions were nerfed, cementing the fact that blizzard doesn't want anything other than mawines mawauders and medivacs in tvp.
So ironically, if Blizzard hadn't nerfed terrans over, and over and over again, mech TvP might still be viable and there would be no need from Blizzard to invent the stupid warhound to fix TvP mech. They created the problem they are now trying to fix.
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On June 19 2012 04:23 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:05 Blyadischa wrote:On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups! Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later. Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard. Yeah bro, I mean, TvP has evolved massively, and is not at all completely identical to how people played in the Beta,
Yeah, people still use tanks, thors, hellions, banshees, reapers, and ravens in tvp right
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On June 19 2012 04:43 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:23 Toadvine wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 Blyadischa wrote:On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups! Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later. Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard. Yeah bro, I mean, TvP has evolved massively, and is not at all completely identical to how people played in the Beta, Yeah, people still use tanks, thors, hellions, banshees, reapers, and ravens in tvp right
And 1 rax FE into 3 rax was still around back then. Name me a popular Terran style that wasn't around at the beginning of 2011. The only thing I don't remember Terrans doing back then was the 4 rax marine pressure after an FE. Aside from that, TvP has not changed much at all, on either side. Only real adjustments were caused by better maps coming out. And whenever one of the races tried to do something else, there'd be a patch to knock it down (like the Thor energy nerf for no reason).
I mean, Terrans may have been innovating in TvZ and TvT, but TvP has always been unbelievably stale.
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On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.
I hope you are joking? Terran right now is losing to toss and getting RAPED UP THE ASS by Zerg. And this is May.... Terran has like a 7% win rate in GSTL vs Z right now the June numbers are going to end up 70-30 ZvT at this rate. The queen buff was massive...
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On June 19 2012 04:37 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:33 Horseballs wrote:On June 19 2012 04:23 Toadvine wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 Blyadischa wrote:On June 19 2012 03:55 Veriol wrote:On June 19 2012 03:08 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 19 2012 02:58 Veriol wrote:
I love how after month of non-winning terrans "'quit'' the game :D not like Z/P was loosing for the whole existance of sc2.. Just get grip on urselves; wait and see how it evolve or even i dont know .. try to think of something (qxc bunker). Why should Terran evolve ? That's what they always did during the life of the game. On other hand, Protoss and Zerg whined over and over to mother Blizzard asking for buffs instead of trying new composition. Also I can't fully blame Blizzard. They had to choose between losing 2 thirds of their player pool ( Z and P ) or just 1 third. They made the obvious decision, since they are a business. Enjoy your ladder with only two races. GLHF. LOL... yeah because zvp is still 2base roach hydra; zvt is still 2base muta .. pvz is still 3gate expand; pvt is still colos timing Nothing new in these matchups! Zerg and protoss evolved to exploit buffs of their races and nerfs of terran, they did little when their races were disadvantaged. Zergs and protosses whine first, and adapt later. Terran has had to change their play style under the constant nerfs of blizzard. Terrans have had to adapt first, and only now is terran bitching about the shitty job of blizzard. Yeah bro, I mean, TvP has evolved massively, and is not at all completely identical to how people played in the Beta, People used to mech and use bio tank vs protoss. Then tanks were nerfed. Then they tried using thor strategies. Then thors were nerfed. Even then there were a few holdouts trying mech vs protoss, but then hellions were nerfed, cementing the fact that blizzard doesn't want anything other than mawines mawauders and medivacs in tvp. So ironically, if Blizzard hadn't nerfed terrans over, and over and over again, mech TvP might still be viable and there would be no need from Blizzard to invent the stupid warhound to fix TvP mech. They created the problem they are now trying to fix.
Nah, not even the warhound will make mech viable in TvP. Protoss has way too much mobility, so unless the ladder maps are made radically different, mech will never ever work against a smart Protoss.
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