EPT
It's not a witch hunt. It's the only way to "catch" a hacker (short of stealing a HD).
[?] Spades hacking? - Page 195
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Le BucheRON
Canada619 Posts
It's not a witch hunt. It's the only way to "catch" a hacker (short of stealing a HD). | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:30 dAPhREAk wrote: the problem is that people are thinking he is hacking and then looking for support for that hacking (i.e., anything suspicious even if it doesnt clearly denote hacking). what we get is a skewed representation of his games. regardless, people will believe what they want. I agree, we need to disregard insubstantial claims and marginal moves that don't really mean a whole lot or can be explained by random chance, and focus on the moves that are VERY questionable and cannot be easily explained and overlooked. | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
at 11:00 you'd have to be crazy to move out because thats the timing bio builds hit. when you said "just when the medivacs appeared on the minimap" you probably meant "just when the hellions finished killing the rocks on his third base" which was a completely legit move. YOU DONT MOVE OUT when youre going mech see the bio player is on 2 bases at 11:00, that is beyond stupid and no where near evidence of maphacking. 14:00 what you write here is completely untrue, he did NOT react to secret intel his maphack was giving him, he re-rallied his factory BEFORE lucifron moved out. 16:30 this is mildly suspicious but why would he sent 9 hellions there in the first place? I think this was a misclick since it was a minimap click and he meant to sent them to the back of his main which is a really logical place against a bio player in these positions. 17:00 he also saw them leave the 9 for the defensive part: scan means drop he moved all his vikings to the location where he dropped and spades just spread his tanks out. 29:35: shows how completely biased you are, lucifron first scans the natural, then scans the area more towards the third so spades decides to check it out with his vikings. 32:50 : first good evidence, he could have done this because lucifron's army has been missing, but this honestly could be a sign of a maphack. Im inconclusive wether he hacks or not but you definetly should be less sure of yourself. | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. You actually gonna continue to play? Do you have any idea how much damage you are doing to the competive scene and the community? Man the fuck up an admit it before you destroy every online tournament there is! | ||
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InMotion
Canada110 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:14 NotR wrote: oh wow, that was actually correct. but then again, i don't have a phd in english.  maybe with a phd in sociology we could actually confirm how detremental this fail was to your e-personality? or perhaps with a phd in math we could quantify it..! D: the possibilities are endless!The best part is you're trying to make a joke out of "PhD's" or education in general. I mean it's not surprising considering how uneducated you prove yourself to be. hehehehe. No PhD's required to make that conclusion! =D | ||
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Vipsanius
Netherlands708 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. You should have reacted with the oblivious indifference this thread deserves. I also doubt there would be public backlash towards WW, as with alleged hacking/cheating, the blame lies with the player, not with his team, unless the team deliberately hired cheaters, but that is not questioned here. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:29 Flonomenalz wrote: Oh shit! I just remembered a 2v2 game I played over a month ago with a noob friend of mine, we were just fucking around, cheesing in whatever way possible, and came up with a ZZ vs PP (us being the ZZ). We double 6 pool, and the opponent not only read us perfectly, TOLD us what we were doing, and also responded blindly to us attempting to break their backrocks after they opened up with forge --> gate --> cannon, thus denying our cheese. Now at first, I responded with "Nice maphacks" and left the game, thinking we just simply got outplayed, never bothered to watch the replay until just now. It's just 4 minutes long, watch the replay with everyone's vision first, THEN watch it from Bravoguy's vision. I notice the exact same "camera lock" into our fog for about 6-7 seconds each time he does it, and responds perfectly to our cheese as a result. More points to note, it's evident Bravoguy is the one with the hack, and his friend Aaron does not have it. This is because Aaron initially makes his 9 pylon near his nexus, and not in a position to wall off, but cancels it and puts a pylon to wall off their ramp once Bravo (supposedly) tells him that we are cheesing. Bravo then tells us not to rush in chat, then says "6 pool calling it now", also in chat. Also, Bravo INSTANTLY makes a pylon, then cannons at their back rocks upon seeing us trying to break them down, while it takes Aaron a few seconds to get the message from his friend and start making a pylon and cannons. I would be okay with it, fine, if not for the repeated fog of war camera locks and the canceled pylon, I mean double zerg in 2v2 DOES cheese a lot. BUT then at the end, instead of just gg'ing out, we decide to take advantage of High Orbit having a back rocks, and continue to make lings and attempt to surprise them by breaking down their back rocks. Only to find our opponents (again, after looking at the fog of his backrocks) putting pylons and cannons there. I'll let you guys be the judge, but this seems SO similar to what I saw in Spade's replays... http://drop.sc/192124 Re-posting in case people missed it. What do you guys think? It looks like the same "hack", if it really is hacking... I don't see how it could not be... | ||
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Blennd
United States266 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:29 papaz wrote: Just keep practicing, do well in LANs and your results will speak for themselves. Hey man, no need to kick a guy when he's down. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:32 Vipsanius wrote: unless the team deliberately hired cheaters, but that is not questioned here. that's sort of the reason why he left so that WW wouldn't get shit on by the community as well for something they may very well be entirely innocent of. | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
I've looked at the evidence as presented by Catz, Illusion, Drewbie and others. I also have to conclude that map-hacking occurred beyond a reasonable doubt. I just cannot see any other plausible explanation that sufficiently explains all of the suspicious behaviour in the games, as highlighted in this thread. Too many strange coincidences and positional play that does not make sense for the vision available to Spades. Sadly Spades comes out of this looking as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo. I am glad that various pro-gamers such as Catz, Illusion, Drewbie, TT1 and PainUser have all taken the time to look at this issue and publicly state their opinions and effectively stake their reputations on this. It is also a credit to see TL itself not attempt to sweep this extremely serious topic under the carpet and pretend it does not exist. It is very important that the community is clear that maphackers are not welcome and are incredibly damaging for the scene. Many esteemed and articulate posters here have weighed in with valuable insight and it is heartening to see that honest gameplay is valued by the community at large. The SC2 scene cannot afford to turn a blind eye on this issue. We have to have faith that the competitive scene is honest and results are valid and untainted. Only vigilance will help catch hackers. ZweiGaming is doing a great job in the other MapHacking thread highlighting this issue and helping Blizzard clean up the GM Ladder. For the SC2 scene to sustain itself and grow it has to be clean, and percieved to be clean. Honest gameplay is integral to the entire SC2 competitive scene. Cheating and hacking are cancers that could destroy it if not exposed and rooted out when discovered. Well done, TL. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2577 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote: Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level. Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote: Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. Don't look at me. I wish the community wasn't so fucking retarded and that there were some protocols in place to actual judge scenarios like this, but since there aren't, I can only hope that the truth is revealed at MLG or some other LAN event. | ||
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Blackfish
Austria309 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:35 Flonomenalz wrote: Re-posting in case people missed it. What do you guys think? It looks like the same "hack", if it really is hacking... I don't see how it could not be... EH lol your hacker does lock into fog 3 times this game. Wheres the lock? he doesnt need one cause he´s a normal maphacker using normal maphacks and does not think he has anything to hide. Really no coincidences here. | ||
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:47 lahara wrote: sorr, i dont understand. then why never what in the fog of war? why was he never in the fow in the games where he was accused of hacking but always in the other ones? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote: Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. p1: but he turned me into a newt. p2: a newt?!? p1: but i got better. | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote: Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. Thanks for giving the community the benefit of the doubt and not trying to make out that one man's foolish suggestion is representative of what the entire community would think. | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote: Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. If he floats, then it's not a witch, right ? | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:40 StarStrider wrote: Thanks for giving the community the benefit of the doubt and not trying to make out that one man's foolish suggestion is representative of what the entire community would think. I think both of your are misinterpreting what I'm saying. If he wants to show that he doesn't hack, the best way to do so would be to perform well at an offline event. EDIT: I'm not convinced that he does hack, to begin with. Just saying, it looks like everyone else is so he might as well try to clear his name the most effective way. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:39 dAPhREAk wrote: p1: but he turned me into a newt. p2: a newt?!? p1: but i got better. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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