EPT[?] Spades hacking? - Page 194
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
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Spades
United States249 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Yes, its possible for a player with subpar micro or macro to win. Boxer was known to have "bad" macro, but he made it up with good micro. In contrast, iloveoov was known to have somewhat shitty micro, but cheater-like macro. But I don't think there was ever a player who was, well, both. (I thought of this after typing out my opinion, which I spoilered because its not worth much as this suggestion I feel. Plus, spoilers make people more likely to click and read) + Show Spoiler + I play Protoss, and I've more or less plateaued at mid-masters-- not enough dedication to go further. I obviously don't know much about TvT, and I don't watch many games past MLG and GSL's. I've learned there's a certain amount of things you can get away with, like for example (almost) always going FFE against Z and 1gate against Terran unless you scout the most blatant proxy or cheese. I've also learned that there's a certain amount of luck or gamesense, like when Korean Terran 1 puts his viking in position for the Banshee he knows is coming from Korean Terran 2. Sometimes you can even play "sloppily", like "oh, well I could do this, but I'll do this instead and it'll probably be about the same" and it turns out fine. On the flip side, you also have oh shit moments where you do something really stupid, but manage to get yourself out of there. These things all happen, and they are all okay. Anyways, I've gone through around 20 replays (I'm bored, its summer) and I'd say it looks a bit suspicious. Spades walks that line between absolute perfect positioning/reaction and absolute waste/stupidity and somehow rarely tips over it-- an appropriate metaphor would be he stays right out of range of the siege line (mostly). Honestly, it seems a little suspicious to me. Combined with the two losses I saw, which were basically where his opponents just outright won engagements or just had more stuff that him, and it seems that Spades' wins are coming from somewhere else. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. So the witch hunt continues  | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:10 dAPhREAk wrote: is there a reasonable possibility that the community could be wrong about the "evidence?" Not in my opinion. If it were just a couple games with a couple questionable moves, sure. But when you consider the sheer amount of times something suspicious happened in a growingly large number of important games, then compare that to the control group of the ladder games he provided where he makes no suspicious moves and plays so much differently in style to the replays in question..... it becomes hard to refute after that. And more and more replays are being unveiled as we speak (see vs theognis by Qillusion) | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote: ….i feel like honesty would be fun here. I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness. i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened. If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust. sorry I'd like to take the time to commend you for your honesty and courage. Whistleblowing is an important and noble action(even despite the oft needed anonymity). It's never too late to do the right thing; the future awaits. | ||
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InSSerenity
117 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. I don't think the majority of the community had any issues at all with Western Wolves. The issue was with your "maphacking" and for me personally your piss poor responses to the issues. I've been working all day and had the time to view this thread multiple times, for something that you claim is ruining your career one would think you would be able to devote some time into finding the key arguments, and putting forth your side of the story. Instead of doing the above, you've flamed people you once lived with, played the victim and complained about a mob mentality. Welcome to being an "entertainer" or in the "public eye" emphasis on the two previous statements due to the fact the most time you've spent in the spotlight in your career was when you were caught in BW, and now this fiasco. | ||
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eourcs
United States459 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:18 NOOBALOPSE wrote: Spades has retired! YAY! He was hacking for sure, watching the reps. He is a coward and I'm glad he's out of the community. Everyone has said (except the WW) that he RARELY practices and does other things like play poker most of the time. As such, i don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be able to get even a 3:1 record against LucifroN without hax. Let's be honest, if LucifroN 4:0'ed ThorZaIN who is THE BEST at preparing for people than what makes you guys think Spades could go 3:2 against LucifroN with his WORSE preparation. HAX Thorzain played Lucifron in a 8-man invitational, he had no idea who he would play in the finals. Spades' showmatch was announced at least a week or two prior to it happening. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
If I were WW, given this thread, I'd have accepted Spades' resignation without blinking an eye. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. i really hope u go to mlg, and do well, u'll save ur rep then. like someone else said in this thread, winning solves everything. (offline of course) | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
Maybe just stick to anonymous ladder-hacking. | ||
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ilikeLIONZ
Germany427 Posts
i just wanted to drop this comment here. people are out of their mind to send deaththreats to this guy, he already suffered enough from his sc2 career being smashed into pieces by an accusation. if he actually hacked, then he deserves a certain punishment - but this goes way too far. Show your maturity, dear sc2 community! | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote: Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level. Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. No one's going to forgive him for hacking not once, but twice. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
I just remembered a 2v2 game I played over a month ago with a noob friend of mine, we were just fucking around, cheesing in whatever way possible, and came up with a ZZ vs PP (us being the ZZ). We double 6 pool, and the opponent not only read us perfectly, TOLD us what we were doing, and also responded blindly to us attempting to break their backrocks after they opened up with forge --> gate --> cannon, thus denying our cheese. Now at first, I responded with "Nice maphacks" and left the game, thinking we just simply got outplayed, never bothered to watch the replay until just now. It's just 4 minutes long, watch the replay with everyone's vision first, THEN watch it from Bravoguy's vision. I notice the exact same "camera lock" into our fog for about 6-7 seconds each time he does it, and responds perfectly to our cheese as a result. More points to note, it's evident Bravoguy is the one with the hack, and his friend Aaron does not have it. This is because Aaron initially makes his 9 pylon near his nexus, and not in a position to wall off, but cancels it and puts a pylon to wall off their ramp once Bravo (supposedly) tells him that we are cheesing. Bravo then tells us not to rush in chat, then says "6 pool calling it now", also in chat. Also, Bravo INSTANTLY makes a pylon, then cannons at their back rocks upon seeing us trying to break them down, while it takes Aaron a few seconds to get the message from his friend and start making a pylon and cannons. I would be okay with it, fine, if not for the repeated fog of war camera locks and the canceled pylon, I mean double zerg in 2v2 DOES cheese a lot. BUT then at the end, instead of just gg'ing out, we decide to take advantage of High Orbit having a back rocks, and continue to make lings and attempt to surprise them by breaking down their back rocks. Only to find our opponents (again, after looking at the fog of his backrocks) putting pylons and cannons there. I'll let you guys be the judge, but this seems SO similar to what I saw in Spade's replays... http://drop.sc/192124 | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. Just keep practicing, do well in LANs and your results will speak for themselves. | ||
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BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:25 Fyrewolf wrote: I'd like to take the time to commend you for your honesty and courage. Whistleblowing is an important and noble action(even despite the oft needed anonymity). It's never too late to do the right thing; the future awaits. This. I'm eagerly awaiting the results from this. Transparency would be greatly beneficial in this regard. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:22 StarStrider wrote: Not in my opinion. If it were just a couple games with a couple questionable moves, sure. But when you consider the sheer amount of times something suspicious happened in a growingly large number of important games, then compare that to the control group of the ladder games he provided where he makes no suspicious moves and plays so much differently in style to the replays in question..... it becomes hard to refute after that. And more and more replays are being unveiled as we speak (see vs theognis by Qillusion) the problem is that people are thinking he is hacking and then looking for support for that hacking (i.e., anything suspicious even if it doesnt clearly denote hacking). what we get is a skewed representation of his games. regardless, people will believe what they want. | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote: I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. You did a good thing by leaving, but you still need to either address some of the unanswered questions that have been brought up so as to clear your name if you are actually innocent, or you need to confess and apologize in order to move on in the future. Failing to do either one is simply hoping that this will all blow over in years to come, and frankly I don't see that happening as easy now as it did from the BW days because so much more people are more active in the community, and there is so much more public record because of Liquipedia and the ease of replay sharing. I suggest you don't just say fuck it and let whatever happens happen. Take ownership of it, either by explaining yourself on the question of the scans/fog of war and some fishy repositioning moves, or confess and apologize for cheating. You do yourself no favors by flaming your former teammates and playing the victim, then going dark and keeping silent and hoping for it to blow over. | ||
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