|
07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
I just want to chime in on the issue that was floating around that if you can't show me the "murder weapon" or hack in this case, the whole issue didn't exist.
Understand that the really good, well made once are private, not in public circulation and are not easy to catch or track, quite possibly only a very very tiny amount of people are even aware of its existence. Yet it could be used to hack just fine.
Real life example, The Flame that went ** 2 ** years undetected, gathering intelligence. Undetected by _all_ the key players in the world of antivirus vendors, people whose job is to hunt down the things. It penetrated Microsofts update certificates and potentially could have infected 900 million systems world wide with none the wiser about it.
So if a year ago you would have asked the leading antivirus researchers if it was possible to take over 900 million systems just like that, they'd said no, even though windows update has been, along with DNS, the targets that those people get nightmares about should the scenario realize itself. But then again now we know, that it was infact already compromised, just none of these experts knew about it. Fortunately for now, Flame wasn't aimed at taking the systems down, it was used as an intelligence gathering tool, but unfortunately this naturally raises the question, if this went undetected 2 years, what else is already there that's doing the same?
Right the scale of the Flame example and hacks in a video game are worlds apart, but seriously, how many private hacks does warden catch? How many public hacks does it catch? Is there anyone who'd claim SC2 is hackfree game?
Just because you can't find the tool used with a snap of your fingers doesn't mean it's not out there somewhere. Sorry if this derails the topic (hmm if that's even possible..), but the claims that there's no hack that could possibly do whatever Spades is suspected are naive.
|
what paged did PainUser comment on? Can't seem to find it.
|
My biggest question is if there is another place to get these replays from? In other words, is it possible to tamper with replays? Such as forcing the camera view to not change if the player looks at something in the fog of war?
I feel like relying on a replay pack linked by an anonymous poster to scrutinize hacking allegations seems a little strange. Hopefully there is another link to the replay pack, or an official post about the showmatch linking to the same replays.
|
Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
Every onlinetournament needs to ban him. If we don't punish such behavior severely people will just do it because there's not that much to lose.
|
i heard LG is recruiting spades.
they known for hacking too.
|
On June 06 2012 05:38 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. Don't look at me. I wish the community wasn't so fucking retarded and that there were some protocols in place to actual judge scenarios like this, but since there aren't, I can only hope that the truth is revealed at MLG or some other LAN event.
Tell me how forming a logical opinion when presented with evidence of questionable play is qualifying as 'fucking retarded'. No, fucking retarded would be dismissing this evidence off the cuff and closing the thread. He was a known cheating in BW...fucking retarded is giving him the benefit of the doubt and requiring 'HARD EVIDENCE' (which doesn't actually exist barring hacking his computer and seeing a maphack installed, or Blizzard announcing that Warden found heuristics of known hack software in his replays) when he has cheated multiple times in the past and played the victim and refused to man the fuck up, just like he's doing now.
There are no protocols, there is no judicial body of esports. We are it for now. If you don't like how things are being done, tough. It all seems like a completely natural reaction for a competitive gaming community that looks down on trash who cheat.
|
On June 06 2012 05:40 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. If he floats, then it's not a witch, right ?
Nah man if he floats he's a witch
if he drowns he's a witch.
Not a warlock, a witch.
|
On June 06 2012 05:40 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. If he floats, then it's not a witch, right ?
No, floating would mean he's made of wood.
Since witches burn, they're made of wood
Wood floats, as do ducks.
If he weighs the same as a duck, he's a witch.
|
On June 06 2012 05:22 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote:
I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. So the witch hunt continues 
Stop being an idiot please, it's tiring.
|
|
|
On June 06 2012 05:45 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:38 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. Don't look at me. I wish the community wasn't so fucking retarded and that there were some protocols in place to actual judge scenarios like this, but since there aren't, I can only hope that the truth is revealed at MLG or some other LAN event. Tell me how forming a logical opinion when presented with evidence of questionable play is qualifying as 'fucking retarded'. No, fucking retarded would be dismissing this evidence off the cuff and closing the thread. He was a known cheating in BW...fucking retarded is giving him the benefit of the doubt and requiring 'HARD EVIDENCE' (which doesn't actually exist barring hacking his computer and seeing a maphack installed, or Blizzard announcing that Warden found heuristics of known hack software in his replays) when he has cheated multiple times in the past and played the victim and refused to man the fuck up, just like he's doing now. There are no protocols, there is no judicial body of esports. We are it for now. If you don't like how things are being done, tough. It all seems like a completely natural reaction for a competitive gaming community that looks down on trash who cheat.
And I'm saying that there should be protocols. I'm not sure why this is hard to explain. So many people in this thread didn't even bother to acquaint themselves with the evidence. That's the problem. There's no legitimacy to trial by mob, whether or not it ultimately arrives at the correct conclusion.
|
On June 06 2012 05:46 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:22 ZenithM wrote:On June 06 2012 05:20 Spades wrote:
I haven't retired. I just left my team, to avoid public backlash upon Western Wolves. So the witch hunt continues Stop being an idiot please, it's tiring.
I was very much tempted to quote all 195 pages in this thread and say that exact thing.
|
On June 06 2012 05:46 discomatt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:40 Otolia wrote:On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. If he floats, then it's not a witch, right ? No, floating would mean he's made of wood. Since witches burn, they're made of wood Wood floats, as do ducks. If he weighs the same as a duck, he's a witch.
monty python 4 life.
|
On June 06 2012 05:46 discomatt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:40 Otolia wrote:On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. If he floats, then it's not a witch, right ? No, floating would mean he's made of wood. Since witches burn, they're made of wood Wood floats, as do ducks. If he weighs the same as a duck, he's a witch.
No, floating would mean he's made of wood.
Since witches burn, they're made of wood
Wood floats, as do ducks.
do ducks not also breathe?
if he breathes he's a witch!
|
On June 06 2012 05:41 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. p1: but he turned me into a newt. p2: a newt?!? p1: but i got better. + Show Spoiler +
I'm glad there are sp,e members of the community happy to laugh at this. It should give Spades some hope.
|
On June 06 2012 05:48 suicideMARE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:46 discomatt wrote:On June 06 2012 05:40 Otolia wrote:On June 06 2012 05:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 06 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
Just go to MLG Spades, and try to play your best. If you play well, maybe people will believe you. If not, then maybe you need to apologize to the community. Even if you hacked, it's possible that over a long period of time you might be forgiven, like Dragon was, but it would take serious work on your part and dedicated practice to show you can actually compete at the highest level.
Not saying you hacked, but, if you did, the best thing to do is come clean. Ah, trial by combat. If MLG is inconclusive, I suggest we try drowning him. I love how this community works. If he floats, then it's not a witch, right ? No, floating would mean he's made of wood. Since witches burn, they're made of wood Wood floats, as do ducks. If he weighs the same as a duck, he's a witch. No, floating would mean he's made of wood. Since witches burn, they're made of wood Wood floats, as do ducks. do ducks not also breathe? if he breathes he's a witch!
WOOOOOSH!
|
Many thanks. Very interesting read.
|
i watched catz vod of the so call analysis and it was like watching a bully at school. he was just bashing and laughing at him. some things he said wasnt even 100% accurate.
|
On June 06 2012 04:27 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Train is still rolling, TL is still not ending this thread... Apparently the IP matches existing users, but they won't release the name...
I was always curious, in ancient times, or medieval when the church/ruling party declared a witch with no proof other than (if we drop you off a cliff, or burn you, you should survive if you're a witch and die if not) what it would look like. You, the idiotic pitchfork carrying majority posting in this thread, are very interesting to observe... It's a shame that Spades has to be the witch who is forced to deny hacking against a poster who TL is hiding (apparently)... Last time I checked, if you accuse something, you don't call that conclusive evidence, especially an anonymous tip.
But hey, we're humans and apparently we are naturally acustomed to believe anything we hear. I have to go, my house hippo requires feeding. The analogy you used does not work because dropping witches off cliffs does not provide substantial evidence, but pros and experts analyzing replays does. Also, people saw the witch using witchcraft years ago, and it was proven that she was a witch already. Bad analogy.
Actually, they went to trial and were accused of being a witch by "experts" so perhaps you don't understand history all to well, you'll notice in the community (on the level pro level) their is not a consensus as to if he did or not, with more on the side that he didn't or there isn't sufficent evidence/proof to convict... Catz/illusion stream (getting revenue off someone else's heartache) which was a completely biased stream. They completely MISSED the fact the barracks saw the drop coming/mini-map saw it... It took a viewer to tell them, that is what you call clouded vision, they see what they want to see...
the "witch hunt" works perfectly fine, because this is exactly what this is... Burn him. I'd also like someone to show the device/programming he used to accomplish this maphack, I keep hearing about maphacking but have yet to see anyone show it in full swing. I'm rather skeptic.
EDIT
On June 06 2012 04:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry This is...pretty big, if true.
If I see something along the lines of this, then I might even believe he had the ability. But do I think he did it? Nope, he had nothing to gain...
He was accused of "hacking" on a showmatch with no prizemoney... So he robbed an empty bank? He had no motive at all to do this, and if he was hacking in those games, he is a god awful hacker because half the time (the other side of the coin everyone is not looking at) he completely misread plays...
|
On June 06 2012 05:51 Diizzy wrote:
i watched catz vod of the so call analysis and it was like watching a bully at school. he was just bashing and laughing at him. some things he said wasnt even 100% accurate.
Yep, sadly Catz lost all credibility I had for him as a pro.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
