EPTNot really, we still need to prove if he was map hacking or not.
Which is where it all began tbh.
[?] Spades hacking? - Page 191
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
Not really, we still need to prove if he was map hacking or not. Which is where it all began tbh. | ||
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coldscars
Germany141 Posts
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:55 JimSocks wrote: anybody know how the hack actually works? There are multiple private hacks. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
anyways, very easy to save his rep, attending offline tournaments and do well in them, and not just do online tournaments where no one knows what ur doing. | ||
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discomatt
113 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:54 Defacer wrote: Hacking is a serious of offense, which would be punished by exile. The standard of proof should be higher than expert testimony. That's all we're saying here. The Trayvon Martin case is actually a perfect example of experts and reputable media outlets inadvertent shaping public opinion and hindering an investigation with their personal biases. /tangent The only way we can get 'hard proof' is to raid his computer. Any evidence will be circumstantial unless either some form of anti-cheat finds him, or some independent body steals his HD without his knowledge. He could very easily clean his tracks... which would potentially leave circumstantial evidence, but again, that isn't good enough. Elaborate how hard evidence could be found in any other way? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:58 antilyon wrote: Not really, we still need to prove if he was map hacking or not. Which is where it all began tbh. it says he is retired from the game. who cares? | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:48 caradoc wrote: To me, 9:50 isn't evidence at all. Sure if you have both players vision on, it looks suspicious because of ognis' army positioning, but if you look at Spades' view, he moves right right after he builds extra production facilities. Kill natural -> build barracks -> resume attack on main. No breaks in between, and the entire sequence is logical. I'm not sure you watched the right part...? Basically, Spades sieges up, then un-sieges only to near-instantly re-siege without reason. Of course, it makes total sense if Spades was able to see the bio ball moving towards him, but watching the replay you see that Spades had no such vision (but he probably thought he did). Meanwhile, Spades' player-cam is focused on the high-ground of his opponent at the same time the bio ball is moving towards him on the high-ground. It doesn't get better than this. If this is not enough proof then no hacker will ever get convicted because you are asking for the near-impossible (100% solid proof). People saying "innocent until 100% proven guilty" are clearly too blue-eyed and haven't had to deal with hackers in the past. I come from the hack-infested WC3 scene of 2007-present, and trust me if nobody was labelled a hacker until there was actual solid proof, NONE OF THE BLATANT HACKERS WOULD BE CALLED OUT. You just CANNOT expect hard evidence, so stop asking for it. Situations like the game on Cloud Kingdom are as good as it gets, and similar situations are found throughout the show-match, coupled with his very peculiar map-orientation it is as damming as it will ever get. | ||
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Sm1Le
United States179 Posts
1. No one goes marine tank medivac when blind. you can have the argument that he wanted to play safe, but if he wanted to play safe, he would have gotten a viking, and some sort of detection. (ebay, raven). So stupid. You NEVER go medivac unless you KNOW your opponent is doing bio follow up (obviously because he won't have air when doing bio). 2. He blindly goes for a contain. wtf is this shit? why would u do that with a medivac, if you're blind. You should always do it with a viking. 3. when he is moving towards theo's base. he blindly moves up the most dangerous ramp ever. (he has no information on what theo has too). What if theo had tanks up that ramp? what if theo had a beautiful spread out concave, with stim. Spades, i didn't want to believe it, but you hack bro. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:59 discomatt wrote: The only way we can get 'hard proof' is to raid his computer. Any evidence will be circumstantial unless either some form of anti-cheat finds him, or some independent body steals his HD without his knowledge. He could very easily clean his tracks... which would potentially leave circumstantial evidence, but again, that isn't good enough. Elaborate how hard evidence could be found in any other way? warden. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:46 ItsYoungLee wrote: I'm working on some basic statistical analyses of the replays of Spades in Ladder vs Tournaments to look for a difference in his play style. I already have a n=100 for the ladder games, and n=7 from the Lucifron games, can people link me to games Spades plays in Tournaments? I'm thinking of finding maybe 20 or more games from tournaments so my experimental group is n=30 at least. If you could PM me that would be great. I want to have two separate groups before I look at the replays for data so that I am not biased. The null hypothesis will be that there is no difference in certain characteristics (# of times looked in fogs, average scans in TvT games, and other characteristics I'll think of before I start analyzing). Significance level will be set at p=0.01. tl;dr PM ME replays of Spades in tournaments, I'm running some statistics. Those seem like solid parameters and significance level. I hope you post your results. Also: Illusion posted replays from MLG and IPL4. | ||
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Positronic
121 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:58 coldscars wrote: this community is so broken, 190 sites of saying 1 player is maphacking while its not 100% clear and he didnt even win the showmatch, why destroy a persons carrier? he hadnt have anything good if he has hacked, he wouldve attended mlg without being able to hack and stuff, so why destroy a persons carrier just of accusations?-- while some pros say he hacks, other pros like nerchio say he doesnt. wtf is wrong with this community.? did you watch any of the maphacking videos? also a majority of pro players weighing in are saying the actions are majorly suspect, very likely to be maphacking, it's not a 50/50 split | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:54 Felnarion wrote: Hope we were right. You're not. With the evidence at hand to say that Spades actually map hacked is just stupid. "We have attempted to investigate these claims (unfortunately not exhaustively because of how swiftly the rumors spiraled out of control). Our investigation as far as we've been given the time to look into the matter shows that most of the claims are circumstantial at best. Spades prepared intensively for the showmatch in question as it was hosted by our team and studied and familiarized himself with LucifroN's builds. We acknowledge there seem to be suspect occurrences but nothing that should be considered more than circumstantial. Considering a player should be considered innocent until proven guilty and the lack of conclusive proof, we don't believe Spades used maphacks." I'm gonna make a thread about how MVP map hacks in online ladder and see how many of you gullible TL goers start questioning his legitimacy and start crying for blood, forget that he's won tournaments he's guilty of map hacking! Hell, I could probably do it for any player I want so long as I find a few replays where they, "Play wierd" or just so happen to have good game sense. More importantly, I just need to sound convincing, sound mysterious by having 1 post count, and be a source that people can, "Trust" even though all I have going for me is just my witty slander. Or better yet, so long as the player isn't liked that much this should be easy as fuck because you children love to be the big bullies of the internet. | ||
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Pwnzer
United States617 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:53 zev318 wrote: if that's not a "he admitted to hacking, but we're not going to comment" comment, i dont know what is I doubt he admitted it to the team. Or if he will ever admit it if it is in fact true. | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
Ryan Braun *obviouisly* took fast acting steriods and got off on a technicality. Why are we not screaming at him? Because he is performing at the same level as he was when he got caught. Winning solves problems. Performing solves problems. I find it strange people would threaten him for going to MLG. These people should WANT him at MLG so that he can show everybody that he can or can't hack it vs the pros. Want your career back Spades? Make it into pool play. Life never pulled us aside and said it was fair. It is what it is. Perform and this will go away. If you do not perform... well... get better at Poker. | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:00 Positronic wrote: did you watch any of the maphacking videos? also a majority of pro players weighing in are saying the actions are majorly suspect, very likely to be maphacking, it's not a 50/50 split Well you clearly haven't so why are you even telling someone else to watch them? | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Positronic
121 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:01 cydial wrote: Well you clearly haven't so why are you even telling someone else to watch them? Actually I have, so nyah What is your point here... | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:00 cydial wrote: You're not. With the evidence at hand to say that Spades actually map hacked is just stupid. "We have attempted to investigate these claims (unfortunately not exhaustively because of how swiftly the rumors spiraled out of control). Our investigation as far as we've been given the time to look into the matter shows that most of the claims are circumstantial at best. Spades prepared intensively for the showmatch in question as it was hosted by our team and studied and familiarized himself with LucifroN's builds. We acknowledge there seem to be suspect occurrences but nothing that should be considered more than circumstantial. Considering a player should be considered innocent until proven guilty and the lack of conclusive proof, we don't believe Spades used maphacks." I'm gonna make a thread about how MVP map hacks in online ladder and see how many of you gullible TL goers start questioning his legitimacy and start crying for blood, forget that he's won tournaments he's guilty of map hacking! Hell, I could probably do it for any player I want so long as I find a few replays where they, "Play wierd" or just so happen to have good game sense. Or better yet, so long as the player isn't liked that much this should be easy as fuck because you children love to be the big bullies of the internet. ya cause MVP hasnt won 4 GSLs in an offline setting... how many has spades won let alone attended. | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
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