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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
His response and the response of people supporting him hasn't helped matters. Responding to an accusation with rage and indignation just makes him look guilty. If he didn't hack they should just explain why the most relevant accusations (not looking into the fog of war being the biggest in my mind) are false.
Defensiveness and whining that his career is ruined are terrible, desperate strategies that'll just fuel the wave of anti-Spades sentiment, whereas an immediate and clear refutation would've probably been enough to stop the majority of the damage.
I don't buy the excuse that nothing Spades or anyone supporting Spades could've said or done once the thread was posted would've stopped the "lynchmob". It's true that large groups of people can quickly overrreact to an initial accusation. But that doesn't mean you throw in the towel before even giving a decent defense!
A good explanation of the most suspicious events in the posted replays would've helped Spades' position far more than the "woe is me" routine. And had it been convincing enough to sway pro-level players to his side, I think in time that would be enough to settle the entire community around a consensus of 'not guilty". But to not even try....is suspicious. I can understand he's angry about being accused, but when it comes to a matter as serious as cheating his anger is worth very little in a debate.
Then there's the howling about the anonymity of the OP and about this being posted in public rather than being addressed internally. More things that simply would not matter if we simply got a good refutation from Spades or WW.
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On June 06 2012 04:45 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry To the batmobile!
Holy cloaked Banshee, Batman!
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for people who thinks this is harsh for spades, what world are you living in? have you ever consider cheating in real life?
cheating at an exam in a university/college is a SERIOUS issue when caught. The cheater gets kicked out of college, gets no money back, have a big "i cheat" on their transcript and if that was in grad school his undergrad degree may get revoked. Football players who cheat (use drugs) have been perma banned in the past and put in jail in the worst cases. So tell me...how is spades being treated harsh? he dug his own grave when he chose to hack, he knew the risks and he took it.
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Just saw on twitter that Spades left his team.
edit;
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On June 06 2012 04:49 WesternWolves wrote:
Spades has officially retired from our organisation (http://westernwolves.com/content/News/Spades_retires_from_Western_Wolves-263.html). We will not comment further on the matter.
The thus, the witch hunt ended.
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On June 06 2012 04:23 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:31 DJFaqU wrote:On June 06 2012 03:25 itsjuspeter wrote:
I can't believe people are still defending him, no one can even come up with an explanation as to why he NEVER looks into a full fog of war but in normal replays of his ladder he does. It is the sole reason I am 100% sure he hacks. Can anyone disprove or give me a valid argument as to why this is? The burden of proof is on you. Are you serious? That's the reply you have? The proof provided was in the analysis of his drastic change of play, so no sir the burden of proof is ON YOU, so far none is given for this. Even Spades as avoided answering never looking at fog of war. My god 1 liners like these are the most annoying.
No, the fucking burden of proof is on you. Noone here have a hard evidence, so stop the drama and the bullshit. So what he hacked back in bw ? I can totally understand why he would deny it.
Maybe he was tired/trying a different strat/playstyle. This thread should be closed by now and half of the people who posted in it should be warned/banned.
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On June 06 2012 04:46 ItsYoungLee wrote:
I'm working on some basic statistical analyses of the replays of Spades in Ladder vs Tournaments to look for a difference in his play style.
I already have a n=100 for the ladder games, and n=7 from the Lucifron games, can people link me to games Spades plays in Tournaments? I'm thinking of finding maybe 20 or more games from tournaments so my experimental group is n=30 at least. If you could PM me that would be great.
I want to have two separate groups before I look at the replays for data so that I am not biased. The null hypothesis will be that there is no difference in certain characteristics (# of times looked in fogs, average scans in TvT games, and other characteristics I'll think of before I start analyzing). Significance level will be set at p=0.01.
tl;dr
PM ME replays of Spades in tournaments, I'm running some statistics.
LET THE ASIAN DO THE MATH!
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Spades retires from WW and they won't comment on it? Sounds like they know he is guilty and none involved want to admit tbh
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There's a post on the previous page of this thread as well. They refuse to answer questions.
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On June 06 2012 04:49 WesternWolves wrote:Spades has officially retired from our organisation ( Link to the official announcement). We will not comment further on the matter.
Well then
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LOL this is such a bad picture of him to use for retiring under such scrutiny. Just putting that out there
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if that's not a "he admitted to hacking, but we're not going to comment" comment, i dont know what is
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On June 06 2012 04:50 DjDickGrayson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:45 Positronic wrote:On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry To the batmobile! Holy cloaked Banshee, Batman!
Hopefully this will clear everything up! ^_^
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On June 06 2012 04:50 discomatt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 02:28 Defacer wrote:On June 06 2012 02:15 Benjamin99 wrote:On June 06 2012 02:13 Mobsy wrote:
Haha so funny, 6 or 7 pros now have said he hacked yet all you little kids still think you know the game better than the pros. Jesus, talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect! QFT its mindblowing people are still arguing about this. Its so obvious he cheated but I geuss people like to argue! People just want hard evidence, not 'expert analysis'. It's a serious, career ending accusation. I remember in the Trayvon Martin thread, daPhreak mentioning you should always take expert analysis with a grain of salt. It's impossible for anyone to be 100% objective about any issue, and if you look hard enough, you can find an expert to support any position you take. If Spades really does hack, some kind of hard, technical proof shouldn't be to hard to find. Until then, I'm reserving judgement. And I think a lot of criticism has nothing to do with Spades, but how his situation was handled by TL. If this is how all accusations of hacking are going to be handled in the future, I can't imagine TL being a very pleasant community. :/ brings a tear to my eye that someone actually paid attention. ;-) even more disconcerting is the fact that spades has a history of hacking. it is very difficult to be objective with that knowledge. So... how could this not apply to daPHREAK himself? To me, it's lawyer-speak. A profession where, for money, a knowledgeable person will try to bend or interpret the law to best suit their client, sometimes regardless of any guilt or innocence.
Hacking is a serious of offense, which would be punished by exile. The standard of proof should be higher than expert testimony. That's all we're saying here.
The Trayvon Martin case is actually a perfect example of experts and reputable media outlets inadvertent shaping public opinion and hindering an investigation with their personal biases. /tangent
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anybody know how the hack actually works?
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On June 06 2012 04:54 Felnarion wrote:
Hope we were right.
Either a jong man's carreer is destroyed for some one after his blood or OP did us all a great service and helped us get rid of growing cancer ...
Not sure if a forum is there for to judge on those cases, feels wrong tbh.
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can you please edit the OP to include spade's respones? and some other relevant posts?
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On June 06 2012 04:49 NotR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:34 InMotion wrote:On June 06 2012 04:30 phantaxx wrote:
The fact that Spades has been so hostile towards all the accusations makes me positive that he is hacking. If he were innocent, all he would have to do is answer any questions honestly and provide as many replays as necessary, and people will see he is not hacking.
If we look at the outcomes of playing victim and calling the accusations ridiculous and sad in all cases:
- If he is not hacking:
a) the community takes his side in thinking that the accusations are absurd and drops the investigating, but it is never fully proven that he did not hack.
b) the community continues investigating despite his hostile denials, and finds him to be innocent, but the most now think that he handled the situation poorly with his responses.
- If he is hacking:
a) same outcome as above a) ^
b) the community continues investigating and determines that he is in fact hacking.
Spades only has something to gain from playing victim in the case that he is guilty.
Oh shutup. The way he answers questions on a forum is hardly proof of ANYTHING. You are not a PhD in Psychology and don't have 30 years of experience in the field. Even then, what you say would STILL be taken with a grain of salt. But you want us to believe you because you would act differently in this type of situation. Give me a fucking break. phd in psychology and 30 years of experience? oh boy, well guys i think we have our answer! surely there's someone out there with a phd in psychology and 30 years of experience.. until we get someone with a phd in psychology and 30 years of experience we wont get anywere so everyone shut up, geez! @phantaxx: yeah, spades has something to gain from playing victim only if he is guilty... and if he's not, then he IS the victim... in which case why would he play the victim if he is the victim?? what an asshole, i think we got him here!!
Oh my. You are not very smart. My whole point was that you cannot claim he's hacking SIMPLY based on his reactions to the accusation. That's retarded.. kinda like you.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
