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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
Oh man. This could be big.
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On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
This is...pretty big, if true.
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On June 06 2012 04:38 Achilles17 wrote:Repost for people to see.
Seems people dont even wanna check the new evidence they rather wanna argue. But yea the 9.50 on Cloud kingdom are indeed very fishy
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this thread is total bullshit. someone should close this shit and people with proper knowledge of the game should investigate it.
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On June 06 2012 02:28 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 02:15 Benjamin99 wrote:On June 06 2012 02:13 Mobsy wrote:
Haha so funny, 6 or 7 pros now have said he hacked yet all you little kids still think you know the game better than the pros. Jesus, talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect! QFT its mindblowing people are still arguing about this. Its so obvious he cheated but I geuss people like to argue! People just want hard evidence, not 'expert analysis'. It's a serious, career ending accusation. I remember in the Trayvon Martin thread, daPhreak mentioning you should always take expert analysis with a grain of salt. It's impossible for anyone to be 100% objective about any issue, and if you look hard enough, you can find an expert to support any position you take. If Spades really does hack, some kind of hard, technical proof shouldn't be to hard to find. Until then, I'm reserving judgement. And I think a lot of criticism has nothing to do with Spades, but how his situation was handled by TL. If this is how all accusations of hacking are going to be handled in the future, I can't imagine TL being a very pleasant community. :/
brings a tear to my eye that someone actually paid attention. ;-)
even more disconcerting is the fact that spades has a history of hacking. it is very difficult to be objective with that knowledge.
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After looking over the so called evidence I think he's innocent. Now carry on with your torches and pitchforks. But don't come with that "it's 100% certain" bullshit because it's far from it. This thread demonstrates why there are innocent people in prison and even executed. In my book a person is innocent until proven guilty without any reasonable doubt and there is definetly reasonable doubt. All you have is circumstantional evidence and any conviction made based on that is a wrongful conviction in my opinion. I have myself been accused of something fairly serious that I did not do (nothing to do with gaming) so I know how it feels when everyone thinks you're guilty when you're actually not.
Don't bother replying because I wont read it anyway. I just wanted my opinion stated.
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On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
Now HERE we go! Thank you for posting this. Hopefully everything will be cleared up by some actual evidence.
I'd advise that you PM the mods yourself, though. Your post might get missed, and that would be awful.
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lol lots of people would be hostile if you accused them of hacking thats meaningless.
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On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
To the batmobile!
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On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
This is pretty much common knowledge for anyone who has played ladder since the beginning.
I focused on 2v2 RT when I played, and one of the top 2v2 teams was proven to be production hacking by the very best RTers in the world, using a home grown production hack. They were never banned. The point of this cool story is that there are private hacks out there that have been out there since beta, and have gone undetected because of smart coding.
The overall moral is, there are a ton more hackers than you think, and the good ones are not being caught. Spades was just not good enough, and eventually got caught.
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On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry
now this got interesting!!
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I'm working on some basic statistical analyses of the replays of Spades in Ladder vs Tournaments to look for a difference in his play style.
I already have a n=100 for the ladder games, and n=7 from the Lucifron games, can people link me to games Spades plays in Tournaments? I'm thinking of finding maybe 20 or more games from tournaments so my experimental group is n=30 at least. If you could PM me that would be great.
I want to have two separate groups before I look at the replays for data so that I am not biased. The null hypothesis will be that there is no difference in certain characteristics (# of times looked in fogs, average scans in TvT games, and other characteristics I'll think of before I start analyzing). Significance level will be set at p=0.01.
tl;dr
PM ME replays of Spades in tournaments, I'm running some statistics.
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So i just wasted my time watching the first replay. The reasons posted :
Game 1: Antiga Shipyard.
6:15 When he scouted he didn't see any evidence of fast gas, however, before scanning he already starts to build a bay for defending against cloack-banshee.
I have to agree it looks fishy that he starts building the ebay and it's late with it and the banshe manges to do so much damage. The fact that helps in favor of hacking is the fact he made it , against it is the fact he made it so freaking late.
9:11 9 sec camera block.
Are you watching his mouse ? How could he be selecting scvs and puting them on gas or moving them if he is not watching his base ?
9:30 New banshee from LucifroN is leaving his base, he moves his vikings, that had been waiting at the entry of his natural for over 30 sec to cover his main.
Pro question for you : how long does it take to build a banshee ? Would you have been able to get a new banshee in his base 30 sec after the first one? Would you as a terran player just defend against the banshee or put back the scvs to gas, build a few stuff and then defend knowing you have 30'sh sec of freedom ?
10:45 He gets 2 marines to send them to the xel'naga, however, his camera doesn't move to the center of the map, it gets blocked on his army.
If this is a REASON YOU ARE A ...... EVER HEARD OF MINI MAP(IT"S THE THING IN THE LEFT BOTTOM CORNER)
11:02 8 sec camera block
Check his mouse movments.
Sorry just a little update if you want serious MH reasons check 19:30 he went for the 4'th even if he never scouted it before (the logical place for an expo ) but hey 10 sec later he loses his 3'rd from a drop that a hacker could have been semi prepared for.
Is there any point in me watching the rest ? Will the reasons be so pathetic like the ones here? So the only reason you have for the map hack except some very angry ones is the LATE ebay ?
I really hope you are right and he is a hacker but if this happens because an elitist ***** gets pissed and gives stupid reasons i am really sad.
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On June 06 2012 04:29 Starshaped wrote:OK; everyone open up the game on Cloud Kingdom and go to ~9:50. Better proof cannot be asked for. Blacklist this hacker.
To me, 9:50 isn't evidence at all. Sure if you have both players vision on, it looks suspicious because of ognis' army positioning, but if you look at Spades' view, he repositions right right after he builds extra production facilities. Kill natural -> build barracks -> resume attack on main. No breaks in between, and the entire sequence is logical.
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I watched the Cloud Kingdom game its pretty conclusive now that he hacks, look at 9:52~ noone can deny what he did there, also he always seems to have his camera locked at a certain time during them game
can't side with him anymore, TL should ban him and MLG should take away his seed from the event and give it to someone else, this is not fair to the honest players who work hard to get to where they are
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On June 06 2012 04:46 CrugerDK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:39 smacky wrote:
….i feel like honesty would be fun here.
I have a copy of a privately coded hack on my computer. it is and always has been nonfunctional but ive seen it used a thousand times, obs games where people were taught how to use it, etc. think of me like a material witness.
i also have a list of several players that i know were involved with its development and purchase. real names, these people were my friends and some i have known irl for a very long time, most are people who got involved after the hack was obtained and quietly distributed. keep in mind this hack is still in use today by many many people that i do not know but once the replay indicators are exposed so too will some "pro" players. gm is a joke, i am sad to say i was complacent while it happened.
If a TL mod would kindly PM and the WW team people. ill be happy to discuss and both provide name of hack and a copy after i talk it over with a friend and someone in sc2 i trust.
sorry now this got interesting!!
Now i feel discouraged to ladder :/ Waste of time to practice vs mh users
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On June 06 2012 04:34 InMotion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:30 phantaxx wrote:
The fact that Spades has been so hostile towards all the accusations makes me positive that he is hacking. If he were innocent, all he would have to do is answer any questions honestly and provide as many replays as necessary, and people will see he is not hacking.
If we look at the outcomes of playing victim and calling the accusations ridiculous and sad in all cases:
- If he is not hacking:
a) the community takes his side in thinking that the accusations are absurd and drops the investigating, but it is never fully proven that he did not hack.
b) the community continues investigating despite his hostile denials, and finds him to be innocent, but the most now think that he handled the situation poorly with his responses.
- If he is hacking:
a) same outcome as above a) ^
b) the community continues investigating and determines that he is in fact hacking.
Spades only has something to gain from playing victim in the case that he is guilty.
Oh shutup. The way he answers questions on a forum is hardly proof of ANYTHING. You are not a PhD in Psychology and don't have 30 years of experience in the field. Even then, what you say would STILL be taken with a grain of salt. But you want us to believe you because you would act differently in this type of situation. Give me a fucking break.
phd in psychology and 30 years of experience? oh boy, well guys i think we have our answer! surely there's someone out there with a phd in psychology and 30 years of experience.. until we get someone with a phd in psychology and 30 years of experience we wont get anywere so everyone shut up, geez!
@phantaxx: yeah, spades has something to gain from playing victim only if he is guilty... and if he's not, then he IS the victim... in which case why would he play the victim if he is the victim?? what an asshole, i think we got him here!!
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On June 06 2012 04:46 ItsYoungLee wrote:
I'm working on some basic statistical analyses of the replays of Spades in Ladder vs Tournaments to look for a difference in his play style.
I already have a n=100 for the ladder games, and n=7 from the Lucifron games, can people link me to games Spades plays in Tournaments? I'm thinking of finding maybe 20 or more games from tournaments so my experimental group is n=30 at least. If you could PM me that would be great.
I want to have two separate groups before I look at the replays for data so that I am not biased. The null hypothesis will be that there is no difference in certain characteristics (# of times looked in fogs, average scans in TvT games, and other characteristics I'll think of before I start analyzing). Significance level will be set at p=0.01.
tl;dr
PM ME replays of Spades in tournaments, I'm running some statistics.
How about the replays Illusion posted?
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On June 06 2012 04:42 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 02:28 Defacer wrote:On June 06 2012 02:15 Benjamin99 wrote:On June 06 2012 02:13 Mobsy wrote:
Haha so funny, 6 or 7 pros now have said he hacked yet all you little kids still think you know the game better than the pros. Jesus, talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect! QFT its mindblowing people are still arguing about this. Its so obvious he cheated but I geuss people like to argue! People just want hard evidence, not 'expert analysis'. It's a serious, career ending accusation. I remember in the Trayvon Martin thread, daPhreak mentioning you should always take expert analysis with a grain of salt. It's impossible for anyone to be 100% objective about any issue, and if you look hard enough, you can find an expert to support any position you take. If Spades really does hack, some kind of hard, technical proof shouldn't be to hard to find. Until then, I'm reserving judgement. And I think a lot of criticism has nothing to do with Spades, but how his situation was handled by TL. If this is how all accusations of hacking are going to be handled in the future, I can't imagine TL being a very pleasant community. :/ brings a tear to my eye that someone actually paid attention. ;-) even more disconcerting is the fact that spades has a history of hacking. it is very difficult to be objective with that knowledge.
So... how could this not apply to daPHREAK himself?
To me, it's lawyer-speak. A profession where, for money, a knowledgeable person will try to bend or interpret the law to best suit their client, sometimes regardless of any guilt or innocence.
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EPT
