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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 06 2012 03:58 Moonsalt wrote:
If it's true, then nice job. I kinda feel bad for Spades though.
If true don't feel bad for him, feel bad for the guys he's knocked out of competitions who played fair and square.
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On June 06 2012 03:54 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:50 chebhe wrote:
THe mods of TL jump on peoples ass for the smallest, irrelevant infractions, but can't find the balls to close and KEEP CLOSED a 180 post long thread of misguided slander ruining a persons career... Such hypocrites. You should be perma banned for your posts in this thread. Just saying, you're getting off easy.
No, every person in this thread who has slandered Spades, especially the OP and the worst offenders; convincing others he is maphacking without having sufficient proof and destroying his career; they should be sued for slander by Spades. Believe me, he CAN win a settlement for something like this.
Whoever gets permabanned from this site does not concern me. I do not concern myself with the mods attitudes, not towards what I say. I don't care whether they believe I am right or wrong. I let my comment speak for itself. If the mods have any sense of justice, they will agree with me and this thread will be closed. If they do not agree with me, good ridance. I have no time for pubescent fools in my life, much less living under the thumb of one.
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On June 06 2012 03:50 Acritter wrote:
Right now, we have two conflicting fields of evidence. First is the indisputible fact that in his ladder games, Spades made extensive use of fog of war, while in this showmatch he preferred the minimap. This is hard to explain. Second is the fact that a hacker has said that Spades isn't hacking, and furthermore that people have come out announcing that Spades was definitively not using camera lock (I don't completely understand it, but I think the gist of it is that it tells the replay recorder that you're keeping your camera at a location while you look at other parts of the map). I think the most important step is that people need to find a hack that Spades could realistically have been using. If there is no hack that he could have been using, then we can't say he was maphacking unless we want to throw "codes maphacks" onto the list of charges.
I agree that this is the most compelling development in this thread. Wouldnt it be hilarious if at the end of the day it was discovered that there is literally no hack in existence that could create the seemingly damning evidence?
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On June 06 2012 04:00 algorithm0r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:56 ZenithM wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 algorithm0r wrote:
Wow. Back after a nights sleep and 1000 new posts. PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD! EVERYONE HAS ALREADY HAD THEY'RE SAY (MORE THAN THEY ARE ENTITLED TO) AND SPADES HAS ALREADY SUFFERED ENOUGH! IT'S THEIR SAY! And if Spades indeed is a hacker, I can assure you, he will never suffer enough. This is the most disgusting thing I've read and it is clear that most of the mob on here believe it. Maphacking is NOT A CRIME. At best it is a weak man's escape from losing. Spades is not a criminal and every person in this thread calling for justice should be ashamed. TL should be embarrassed that it is the forum for these attacks.
Cheating is a crime.
What you're saying is that people on steroids should be allowed to play sports while they are on steroids.
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I'm willing to overlook all the "luck" spades had in position or build orders, the amazing scans, and when he stares at his base for 5-10 seconds. The one thing I'm not willing to overlook is the fact that he never once looks into the fog of war during his games vs. lucifron but commonly does in other games.
I'm obviously not on the same level as a Catz or Nerchio, but as someone who has played RTS games for over a decade, I know this just doesn't happen. One game OK. Two games really odd. Seven games in a row? Come on. It's such a common practice amongst nearly every single level (bronze - GM) that I can't see it happening seven complete games in a row.
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On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. The same goes to you. What about the posts from actual hackers that outline the fact that Spades COULD NOT have been using camera lock? Are you just dismissing those? How about the post from that D3 or whatever website that called the people on TeamLiquid idiots and said that Spades wasn't hacking? You're throwing aside input from experts to follow along with your own "preconceived notions".
Before anyone can accuse Spades of maphacking, they need to find a hack that he realistically could have been using. As of right now, none have surfaced. If someone can find one, then I will accept that he was most likely maphacking. If nobody can find one, then it is absolutely impossible that he was maphacking.
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On June 06 2012 03:54 chebhe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:49 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 06 2012 03:43 chebhe wrote:
It amazes me how stupid even some of the pros here are in their certainty he is hacking. You people have no right to be this arrogant and stupid. You should be put down. He's hacked before, so not really.. otherwise I think this would of been a completely different mater. Since we require proof and not speculation, his past is irrelevant. Do you understand what speculation is? I have hacked before. I hacked back in wc3, when I was getting bored of it. I have not hacked in 5 years and I do not hack right now. People hack, and then stop hacking. There is no good evidence he hacks, all the so called evidence has a potential adequate explanation. You're all forcing squares pegs into round holes
Vague, even evasive, arguments and a lot of "lucky guess" mentions are in no way adequate explanations, especially given the sheer amount of them over the series. Your apologism is baffling.
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On June 06 2012 04:01 NOOBALOPSE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 09:36 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 09:33 LuckyFool wrote:Ok so I just watched that avilo vs spades game on cloud kingdom (played hours before IPL4 which was during my height of suspicions) and I can safely come to the conclusion Spades was 100% hacking in that game. Which really makes me sad.  A player of that caliber would not leave tanks in that sort of a contain position with no air support/vision. Ever. There isn't 1 reason you wouldn't back off against a player who isn't going bio if you don't have vision. And you can't even say he forgot about them because they sit there naked for 2+ full minutes....and then he SCANS the one time tanks are unsieged moving. lol. Use your brain, If I remember correctly I keep sending marines forward to check tank range, besides that I maybe got a lucky scan, it happens Spades, let me say one thing, even if it turns out you're not hacking you are still ruining your image by saying things like "Use your brain". Let me tell you, almost all of the games I have watched of you it looks as if [you're hacking.
"And remember kids, when you play StarCraft 2, it's about having fun! And remember, don't play suspiciously, because people might think you hack!"
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On June 06 2012 04:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. I'm one of the people who thinks you're a moron for implying that I'm affiliated with Spades (or myself a hacker) simply because I don't think there's sufficient evidence, and because you said that "once a hacker, always a hacker."
Well, the truth does hurt, so I forgive you. You can't help being a moron. You were born that way.
User was warned for this post
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On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something.
Axeltoss says at the beginning of the video "I am specifically referring to Catz Claims about Magic scans not his other points" so how is that making alot of what Catz said irrelevant? Catz talked about magic scans, strange unsieging and sieging when lucifron is moving his army, etc there are alot of points catz made not just referring to the scans.
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On June 06 2012 04:02 chebhe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:54 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 chebhe wrote:
THe mods of TL jump on peoples ass for the smallest, irrelevant infractions, but can't find the balls to close and KEEP CLOSED a 180 post long thread of misguided slander ruining a persons career... Such hypocrites. You should be perma banned for your posts in this thread. Just saying, you're getting off easy. No, every person in this thread who has slandered Spades, especially the OP and the worst offenders; convincing others he is maphacking without having sufficient proof and destroying his career; they should be sued for slander by Spades. Believe me, he CAN win a settlement for something like this. Whoever gets permabanned from this site does not concern me. I do not concern myself with the mods attitudes, not towards what I say. I don't care whether they believe I am right or wrong. I let my comment speak for itself. If the mods have any sense of justice, they will agree with me and this thread will be closed. If they do not agree with me, good ridance. I have no time for pubescent fools in my life, much less living under the thumb of one.
Lol, no he can't win a settlement for something like this. Trust me. If you accuse someone of something, and provide evidence (even if the evidence doesn't hold upon upon further scrutiny), the accuser is generally safe from being sued for slander or libel. What WOULD be slander is if I made a random post saying "Spades is a maphacker." What ISN'T (generally ) slander is making a post saying," I have good evidence that Spades is a maphacker, why don't you take a look at it and see what you think?"
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On June 06 2012 04:03 CptGrackSparrow wrote:
I'm willing to overlook all the "luck" spades had in position or build orders, the amazing scans, and when he stares at his base for 5-10 seconds. The one thing I'm not willing to overlook is the fact that he never once looks into the fog of war during his games vs. lucifron but commonly does in other games.
But he does. Many times ! And people in this thread keep taking the OP's word for granted. It baffles me...
Right now I'm unconvinced of either case, but the OP is full of wrong facts, and anybody who seriously tries to analyze the OP's arguments by looking at the replays himself can see that 80% of them do not hold true.
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On June 06 2012 04:05 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:02 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. I'm one of the people who thinks you're a moron for implying that I'm affiliated with Spades (or myself a hacker) simply because I don't think there's sufficient evidence, and because you said that "once a hacker, always a hacker." Well, the truth does hurt, so I forgive you. You can't help being a moron. You were born that way.
Strong argument. Anyone who disagrees with you = Spades, Spade's friend, or hacker.
Strong logic.
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On June 06 2012 04:04 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:54 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 03:49 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 06 2012 03:43 chebhe wrote:
It amazes me how stupid even some of the pros here are in their certainty he is hacking. You people have no right to be this arrogant and stupid. You should be put down. He's hacked before, so not really.. otherwise I think this would of been a completely different mater. Since we require proof and not speculation, his past is irrelevant. Do you understand what speculation is? I have hacked before. I hacked back in wc3, when I was getting bored of it. I have not hacked in 5 years and I do not hack right now. People hack, and then stop hacking. There is no good evidence he hacks, all the so called evidence has a potential adequate explanation. You're all forcing squares pegs into round holes Vague, even evasive, arguments and a lot of "lucky guess" mentions are in no way adequate explanations, especially given the sheer amount of them over the series. Your apologism is baffling.
And your concrete certainty, exclusion of the possibilities is humorous. ALready CATZ has announced in confidence on his stream the "proof" of maphacks, only to be thoroughly debunked. I watch one of my own replays with the mentality of the mob in here, and I see 10 reasons per game why I maphack. I don't even maphack. You are a follower, everyone who believes spades MH is caught up in mob stupidity.
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On June 06 2012 04:02 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:50 Acritter wrote:
Right now, we have two conflicting fields of evidence. First is the indisputible fact that in his ladder games, Spades made extensive use of fog of war, while in this showmatch he preferred the minimap. This is hard to explain. Second is the fact that a hacker has said that Spades isn't hacking, and furthermore that people have come out announcing that Spades was definitively not using camera lock (I don't completely understand it, but I think the gist of it is that it tells the replay recorder that you're keeping your camera at a location while you look at other parts of the map). I think the most important step is that people need to find a hack that Spades could realistically have been using. If there is no hack that he could have been using, then we can't say he was maphacking unless we want to throw "codes maphacks" onto the list of charges. I agree that this is the most compelling development in this thread. Wouldnt it be hilarious if at the end of the day it was discovered that there is literally no hack in existence that could create the seemingly damning evidence?
It would be hilarious, in a sort of dark humor sense. You know, because no matter what it would ruin Spades' career. It would make that "council" or whatever they called themselves look ridiculously pompous in their complete lack of relevant knowledge. The fact is, the only people who should be qualified to judge whether a player is hacking are people who are familiar with the hacks in existence, which automatically disqualifies all the scene's current professionals. The consensus of all the hackers who have come forward thus far have said Spades wasn't hacking, which to me says rather a lot.
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On June 06 2012 04:00 algorithm0r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:56 ZenithM wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 algorithm0r wrote:
Wow. Back after a nights sleep and 1000 new posts. PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD! EVERYONE HAS ALREADY HAD THEY'RE SAY (MORE THAN THEY ARE ENTITLED TO) AND SPADES HAS ALREADY SUFFERED ENOUGH! IT'S THEIR SAY! And if Spades indeed is a hacker, I can assure you, he will never suffer enough. This is the most disgusting thing I've read and it is clear that most of the mob on here believe it. Maphacking is NOT A CRIME. At best it is a weak man's escape from losing. Spades is not a criminal and every person in this thread calling for justice should be ashamed. TL should be embarrassed that it is the forum for these attacks.
actually using hacks in a tournament IS illegal because it is against the rules of the tournament and if you make money by hacking it IS a crime.... (i know the showmatch didn't have any prize money but if he used it there who can assure you that he didn't use it in tournaments?
(i'm not saying he DID actually use hacks since we can't be 100% sure yet but IF he did use hacks to win money that is a crime...)
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On June 06 2012 04:00 epicdemic wrote:
It all seems pretty conclusive to me.
Proof for Spades hacking:
- A lot of hints in the replays that Spades was hacking. I won't call it evidence because we can't be 100% sure.
- A lot of professional SC2 players and casters saying that Spades (most likely) hacked.
- Spades has hacked in BW.
- Spades has stream cheated in SC2.
- Spades has a motive. He was slacking in Masters and very frustrated, then all of a sudden he was #1 GM.
Proof against Spades hacking:
? Haven't seen any proof except for some lousy explanation from Spades himself and some people who have said that not all his moves in the game pointed towards hacking, and people who said that they saw him play games in which he did not hack.
Everyone here who still thinks he's not hacking is fooling himself.
I'm not going to say he didn't hack.. but just looking at the list you provided I don't know how you're comfortable saying that's conclusive (i.e. 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt positive) especially when one of your points includes 'I won't call it evidence because we can't be 100% sure.'
Also funny that you put in that sentence to a point you're making as evidence. Not to mention also listing a bunch of pros and casters, most of which have said 'maybe hacking but I can't 100% tell or give any hard evidence' or others who have drawn hard conclusions on something that was later proven wrong.
And outside of those two things the rest are all 'incriminating but unrelated to the specific incident.'
I'm not ready to say whether or not he is hacking, which means I personally have yet to see anything I consider definitive evidence, though there is certainly enough to be suspicious, saying it's already conclusive just seems rushed at this point.
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On June 06 2012 04:05 oZii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. Axeltoss says at the beginning of the video "I am specifically referring to Catz Claims about Magic scans not his other points" so how is that making alot of what Catz said irrelevant? Catz talked about magic scans, strange unsieging and sieging when lucifron is moving his army, etc there are alot of points catz made not just referring to the scans.
It's a big deal because the smoking gun for any maphack accusation is something that isn't mechanically possible/conceivable in a normal game. This is why people were so interested in Scans which wouldn't physically be possible if Spades wasn't hacking. The fact that Spades sieged/unsieged etc. could be the result of a maphack, but it could also be the result of a lucky guess. With this small of a sample, it's not really possible to say.
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I think the only reason this thread has gotten out of hands is because Spades has a history in terms with hacking.
I'm not leaning towards Spades being a current hacker or not, I would only go far to say that the replays provide some bizzare occurences.
Since this is a topic which has the potential of destroying a players career (if not done already), I would humbly ask the TL mods to close it, and make sure that such a case would be discussed only among professional, knowledgeable people, not every random guy on TL.
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This thread deserves to be closed. Maybe TL has been lacking site traffic or something, it's embarrassing that this is still open.
Behind the scenes talk is obviously going to be going on with WW and Spades and whoever else needs to be involved, this thread is helping no one and hurting Spades.
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EPT
