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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 06 2012 00:37 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:28 TheFrankOne wrote:On June 06 2012 00:13 OzVelas wrote:On June 06 2012 00:00 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:55 Tippecanoe wrote:
That scan on shakuras.
God damn. Just god damn. Yeah, I think it's just one of the best arguments. Nobody in their right mind (like above bronze), would waste a scan which has only 50% of landing on the opponent's fricking main at 5 minutes in the game, without waiting for the scouting SCV to at least confirm his spawning position. That's just retarded play. If you're not maphacking, that is... i just saw the scan, wtf 100% hacking In the loading screen you can see its MLG Shakuras which is forced cross spawn. "Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only." http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-poolSo... not really 50/50. The updated map pool does not have this, however, I can offer two potential explanations for the scan: 1) Spades was about to throw down a third CC and saw that Lucifron was rallying Marines to his natural. Given the distance between the Marines, it's not impossible that Spades inferred that Lucifron was likely cross. 2) I think this reason is stronger: in order to make another CC, all that was necessary was to know that Lucifron was not close by air. From the fact that only 1 Marine at a time was rallying to his base, Spades could probably infer that there was just 1 rax; he just needed to know where, because if it was close by air, drops would come earlier and would be harder to hold. (this is just speculation, of course).
We are not here to teach people how to use limited information to make decisions, let them be ignorant about the game as it ultimately doesn't matter what they think because there is nothing they can do in this situation. You should just let them know that lucifron wished spades luck, and he got his wish.
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On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope!
That's not true though. For example, if we're talking about a legal case (of which this is not), a judge can refuse a victim's request to stay anonymous. This recently happened in the Sandusky case where the judge ruled that all individuals testifying against the accused need to be identified and cannot use aliases.
I personally think TL should reveal who the individual posting it is.
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On June 06 2012 00:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I wonder how many hackers out there are going to use threads like this to improve how they hide their cheating.
Thought of this too, these kind of threads are a bit like antibiotics. Unless we destroy all the hackers at once, the ones left will eventually become resistant and a lot better at hiding their antics. I fear for the proscene when that happens.
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On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope!
Yes we do. Even in court witness must come to stand. Not just point his finger randomly at someone and say "this is the killer". Besides, this could start a very negative trend. Honestly, what is stopping me right now to create smurf account, start following some guy i don't like, get a hold of some replays and after some times accuse him of hacking with the same amount of evidence as we've seen here?
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On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope!
By USA law the acussed has the right to face his acussers.
What if the acusser is a troll, what if he is a pro palyer, what if he is a blizzard employee...
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On June 06 2012 00:34 lahara wrote:
poor spades... and isnt him watching the stream whilst alt tabbing way more likely than actually employing a hack?
him watchng the stream at different times would explain idle camera the occasions on which he did miss drops and i would feel smart if it weas correct
then why never in fog of war?
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wow giX and Mirhi's posts don't really sound good for spades
has the OP's identity been revealed yet, btw?
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Has anyone actually stopped to think for a minute?
What if he was not hacking? How could those actions be explained. Maybe it is merely a stream cheat, if anything.
Was there a delay on the stream during the games?
Also, if i was a team manager and heard accusations of this kind against one of my players I would try to investigate the accused persons computer. This on a voluntary basis of course.
Has this been done ?
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It's really sad to see a man's career getting destroyed by a post on the forums. imo these hack analogies should be PM'd to the big people in the competitive scene and let them decide wether or not the suspect is guilty or not.
I don't care if Spades hacked these games or not. I just don't want to see him to lose his career over this post. If he has been PROVEN (not assumed) guilty, then i would be happy to see him removed from the competitive scene.
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On June 06 2012 00:46 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:34 lahara wrote:
poor spades... and isnt him watching the stream whilst alt tabbing way more likely than actually employing a hack?
him watchng the stream at different times would explain idle camera the occasions on which he did miss drops and i would feel smart if it weas correct then why never in fog of war?
sorr, i dont understand. then why never what in the fog of war?
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On June 06 2012 00:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! The reason we don't reveal it is because there's a threat to their life if the person they point out isn't convicted. The reason we might be interested to know the OP's identity is because it's possible that he's not as impartial as he's making it seem.
Why do you or the others want to know so badly? Is it because you want to praise him, or is it because you want to barrage him with hate? Either way... The original poster doesn't want any of the hate or respect, and it is up to team liquid to decide whether or not to keep the thread open based on the original posters true identity.
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On June 06 2012 00:45 Kotreb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! Yes we do. Even in court witness must come to stand. Not just point his finger randomly at someone and say "this is the killer". Besides, this could start a very negative trend. Honestly, what is stopping me right now to create smurf account, start following some guy i don't like, get a hold of some replays and after some times accuse him of hacking with the same amount of evidence as we've seen here?
if it's the same amount of evidence then there is reason to believe he is hacking, this isn't like some random dude grabbed some replays because he disliked someone
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On June 06 2012 00:48 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:41 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! The reason we don't reveal it is because there's a threat to their life if the person they point out isn't convicted. The reason we might be interested to know the OP's identity is because it's possible that he's not as impartial as he's making it seem. Why do you or the others want to know so badly? Is it because you want to praise him, or is it because you want to barrage him with hate? Either way... The original poster doesn't want any of the hate or respect, and it is up to team liquid to decide whether or not to keep the thread open based on the original posters true identity.
I want to know if he's unbiased.
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On June 06 2012 00:46 Kkxtrouble wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! By USA law the acussed has the right to face his acussers. What if the acusser is a troll, what if he is a pro palyer, what if he is a blizzard employee...
You may have noticed by now that Starcraft takes place in a Sector of the galaxy far distant from the USA. As such, why would you assume that the legal system of Starcraft would resemble that of the USA?
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On June 06 2012 00:43 recallsm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:34 Achilles17 wrote:On June 06 2012 00:27 ImmortalZero617 wrote:
If you spend about 5 minutes in google you can find out that camera lock will not allow any command to go through, once you disable it your camera will return to normal, however in the replay it will look like you just stopped moving the camera. Catz kept saying his camera jerked if he was using the hack it would not jerk... Here is evidence that says otherwise. This is a feature of the hack that is brought up alot on RootCatz's stream: Camera Lock: Lock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it. Do not click on the link below. It is a link directly to a known working macphack. For your information only. + Show Spoiler + I don't think you should post any links to hack, it's just not appropriate. As if someone suspected of hacking isn't bad enough, you're literally giving many people (who may or may not use it) access to the hack. It definitely does more harm than good. I think the link should be removed by mods.
God forbid they use google and find every hack they want in less than 30 seconds...
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Spades, please answer this following question instead of ignoring it every time it pops up.
Why do you not look into the fog of war not even once in bo7? and why do you do it every 5 seconds in ladder matches you provided us. Stop dodging the question and just answer.
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On June 06 2012 00:50 Achilles17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:43 recallsm wrote:On June 06 2012 00:34 Achilles17 wrote:On June 06 2012 00:27 ImmortalZero617 wrote:
If you spend about 5 minutes in google you can find out that camera lock will not allow any command to go through, once you disable it your camera will return to normal, however in the replay it will look like you just stopped moving the camera. Catz kept saying his camera jerked if he was using the hack it would not jerk... Here is evidence that says otherwise. This is a feature of the hack that is brought up alot on RootCatz's stream: Camera Lock: Lock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it. Do not click on the link below. It is a link directly to a known working macphack. For your information only. + Show Spoiler + I don't think you should post any links to hack, it's just not appropriate. As if someone suspected of hacking isn't bad enough, you're literally giving many people (who may or may not use it) access to the hack. It definitely does more harm than good. I think the link should be removed by mods. God forbid they use google and find every hack they want in less than 30 seconds...
If they use google they have committed the action themselves, and of their own accord. If it is posted and allowed here, then Team Liquid has supported the spread of hacks, which Blizzard would have something to say about.
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On June 06 2012 00:48 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:41 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote:The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! The reason we don't reveal it is because there's a threat to their life if the person they point out isn't convicted. The reason we might be interested to know the OP's identity is because it's possible that he's not as impartial as he's making it seem. Why do you or the others want to know so badly? Is it because you want to praise him, or is it because you want to barrage him with hate? Either way... The original poster doesn't want any of the hate or respect, and it is up to team liquid to decide whether or not to keep the thread open based on the original posters true identity.
I would like to know just for the sake of knowing. If I was called out instead of Spades, I would sure like to know who is accusing me. Besides, it would be fair treatment. He doesn't want any hate or respect but is ready to put all the hate on someone else. That is a bit sad.
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On June 06 2012 00:37 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:28 TheFrankOne wrote:On June 06 2012 00:13 OzVelas wrote:On June 06 2012 00:00 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:55 Tippecanoe wrote:
That scan on shakuras.
God damn. Just god damn. Yeah, I think it's just one of the best arguments. Nobody in their right mind (like above bronze), would waste a scan which has only 50% of landing on the opponent's fricking main at 5 minutes in the game, without waiting for the scouting SCV to at least confirm his spawning position. That's just retarded play. If you're not maphacking, that is... i just saw the scan, wtf 100% hacking In the loading screen you can see its MLG Shakuras which is forced cross spawn. "Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only." http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-poolSo... not really 50/50. The updated map pool does not have this, however, I can offer two potential explanations for the scan: 1) Spades was about to throw down a third CC and saw that Lucifron was rallying Marines to his natural. Given the distance between the Marines, it's not impossible that Spades inferred that Lucifron was likely cross. 2) I think this reason is stronger: in order to make another CC, all that was necessary was to know that Lucifron was not close by air. From the fact that only 1 Marine at a time was rallying to his base, Spades could probably infer that there was just 1 rax; he just needed to know where, because if it was close by air, drops would come earlier and would be harder to hold. (this is just speculation, of course).
Can't he wait for his SCV to scout bottom left at least? The SCV was 20 seconds away from reaching the natural. That's trading 1 MULE for 20 seconds of 3rd CC building time, which is obviously not worth it.
1) is not really valid either, there are like no difference in travel time between cross and horizontal spawn locations on Shakuras. Spades is not at a caliber where less than 5 seconds between 2 marines matter...
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I think he is guilty, ones a liar always a liar. Let alone that he wouldn't own up to it in Broodwar discredits the validity of his comments severely.
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EPT
