EPT[?] Spades hacking? - Page 159
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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DLBob
Northern Ireland6 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:32 Chargelot wrote: Spades didn't necessarily know that. It's quite a common problem, actually. A lot of pros have no idea whats going on with tournament specific maps, because they get changed so often. If he didn't know it, then why was his SCV rallied to close by air spawn if he thought it was cross only? | ||
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lahara
Germany140 Posts
him watchng the stream at different times would explain idle camera the occasions on which he did miss drops and i would feel smart if it weas correct | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:32 antilyon wrote: There is no same IP as OP on TL. The mods already tried that. There is, NrGMonk had it wrong. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=4#62 | ||
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Achilles17
United States111 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:27 ImmortalZero617 wrote: If you spend about 5 minutes in google you can find out that camera lock will not allow any command to go through, once you disable it your camera will return to normal, however in the replay it will look like you just stopped moving the camera. Catz kept saying his camera jerked if he was using the hack it would not jerk... Here is evidence that says otherwise. This is a feature of the hack that is brought up alot on RootCatz's stream: Camera Lock: Lock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it. Do not click on the link below. It is a link directly to a known working macphack. For your information only. + Show Spoiler + mod edited out! | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:27 Chargelot wrote: What makes you think Blizzard hasn't detected them? Lack of banning doesn't equate to lack of knowledge. That said, if your only foundation of your belief that he is hacking is based on personal, subjective observations made by yourself and others, which lacks definitive evidence ( ie "Spades: I am currently maphacking in this game!"), and the only other source of information available has not made a move yet, the idea that he is in fact guilty, is quite literally baseless. It stands upon personal opinion, not fact. You can't just say "You're a hacker because I have indirectly observed you doing something which may or may not be the result of hacking." I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to conclude that he hacks. But blizzard, were they even using resources on trying to find out, probably wouldn't be any wiser than the rest of us. The only circumstance under which blizzard would know that he's hacking is if Spades is using a publicly available hack that is already detected, in which case his account might have been tagged by warden and is going to get banned in a future ban wave. If he's using a private hack, this is extremely unlikely. If he's using the most commonly used public hack that has been available since about 3 weeks into the beta, it's still unlikely because this particular hack hasn't resulted in a single ban wave in 2 years. Apart from that, there really is no way for them to detect him hacking. When you're in camera lock mode, all actions are client side. There's no way for blizzard to examine a replay and conclude that he's actually looking over the fog because those packets are simply never sent to the server. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:23 rei wrote: lucifron wished spades good luck before the game, he got his wish, what's wrong with that? How do you explain the fact that spades got rip apart by drops? you can't just cherry pick a single instant and say that's your proof that spades hacks, you must look at all the games as a whole. you can't just ignore other facts that contradicts your argument. What you guys doing is scientifically and logically foul play. Team liquid is better than this cluster fuck of mass logical fallacy. When spades, testie and TT1 was hacking during the BW days, ppl call them out for hacking way before the technology was available to detect hacks via replay, yet we didn't made this kinds of stupid accusation without irrefutable proofs. We are better than this. Bullshit. It's one thing to get lucky, but it's something completely different to do something that makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE. The ONLY REASON anyone would EVER react as he did would be if he mapahcked and saw the bio coming. This isn't intercepting some drop luckily or catching someone off-guard. He made a move which makes complete sense if you have vision, but he didn't have vision. On the other hand, it was only out of his vision by a millimeter, so my theory is that he couldn't tell that he wouldn't have vision of it without maphack, so he sieged thinking it would look legit. He thought his viking gave him vision However, just watch the damn moment and you'll see it's the most conclusive proof of him hacking as you'll ever get. Not to mention his player-cam was hovering over the high-ground (without actual vision). Honestly, if the Cloud Kingdom moment doesn't win you over, then NOTHING will. And again, having maphack doesn't magically make you any better at the game. Doesn't surprise me one bit if he gets completely outplayed by a legitimately top-level player like Lucifron. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:28 TheFrankOne wrote: In the loading screen you can see its MLG Shakuras which is forced cross spawn. "Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only." http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool So... not really 50/50. The updated map pool does not have this, however, I can offer two potential explanations for the scan: 1) Spades was about to throw down a third CC and saw that Lucifron was rallying Marines to his natural. Given the distance between the Marines, it's not impossible that Spades inferred that Lucifron was likely cross. 2) I think this reason is stronger: in order to make another CC, all that was necessary was to know that Lucifron was not close by air. From the fact that only 1 Marine at a time was rallying to his base, Spades could probably infer that there was just 1 rax; he just needed to know where, because if it was close by air, drops would come earlier and would be harder to hold. (this is just speculation, of course). | ||
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Kkxtrouble
Brazil575 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:34 solidbebe wrote: There is, NrGMonk had it wrong. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=4#62 I can only wonder if it is a pro or not... Man, this grew much bigger than i expected. | ||
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Urasim
United States83 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:29 Daimai wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=4#62 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=4#62 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=4#62 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=4#62 The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:34 DwD wrote: How is the posters identity even close to being relevant? Seen a couple who wants him/her to say who he/she is. Imo it's just too much evidence, a lot of small stuff quickly piles up and it's too much weird shit going on. I also find it funny how he left the team house after losing motivation(?), dropping out of GM and then when he is home alone he achieves 1 of the best score ever among top players. Yeah sorry I don't buy it. If you are about to ruin someones career then you should at least come forth under your real name. This isn't just a small blog about how there are cheaters out there. He basically ruined Spades reputation in SC2. The questions is, why does he feel to do something like this anonymously? | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On June 05 2012 23:48 Shiori wrote: You just assumed the conclusion to make your argument.... No I didn't. Read carefully please. And if you bother to watch CatZ analysis it should be clear.. There were multiple examples of his play directed completely off of information he had no way of knowing. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote: The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! Except in this case, there is no reason he should be anonymous, right? I mean, he is a "hero" for fighing the problem of cheating and hacks? | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:39 Urasim wrote: The original poster wanted to stay anonymous. To make his identity public would be a gross misuse of power on team liquids behalf. Do we point out the identity of the person who is trying to identify someone from a lineup? Nope! The reason we don't reveal it is because there's a threat to their life if the person they point out isn't convicted. The reason we might be interested to know the OP's identity is because it's possible that he's not as impartial as he's making it seem. | ||
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imMUTAble787
United States680 Posts
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Holytornados
United States1022 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:21 Chargelot wrote: If your ONLY evidence is that CatZ told you so, that means you've no right to call him guilty. If the ONLY people in the entire WORLD who can tell you if he was or was not hacking has not done so, you have no right to call him guilty. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Circumstantial Evidence What about analyzing the replays on my own? I can't form an opinion based on the facts I see? Blizzard not making judgement does not exonerate Spades. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:34 convention wrote: Then why did he send his scouting scv to the not cross-spawned position if he knew it was forced cross only? The scouting scv was queued to go to the wrong spawn, so he didn't know where the actual spawn location was. Since this is going in circles on a point that's already been explained and counter-explained (it's linked up top even) I'll recap it for you. Spades claims that the SCV scout was so late that it was to check for a ninja/fast 3rd while the scan was the check for in-base CC's / tech. You can still doubt him if you like, but at least realize you guys aren't covering new ground talking about the Shakuras scan / scout. | ||
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recallsm
14 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:34 Achilles17 wrote: Here is evidence that says otherwise. This is a feature of the hack that is brought up alot on RootCatz's stream: Camera Lock: Lock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it. Do not click on the link below. It is a link directly to a known working macphack. For your information only. + Show Spoiler + mod edited out! I don't think you should post any links to hack, it's just not appropriate. As if someone suspected of hacking isn't bad enough, you're literally giving many people (who may or may not use it) access to the hack. It definitely does more harm than good. I think the link should be removed by mods. | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:35 hifriend wrote: I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to conclude that he hacks. But blizzard, were they even using resources on trying to find out, probably wouldn't be any wiser than the rest of us. The only circumstance under which blizzard would know that he's hacking is if Spades is using a publicly available hack that is already detected, in which case his account might have been tagged by warden and is going to get banned in a future ban wave. If he's using a private hack, this is extremely unlikely. If he's using the most commonly used public hack that has been available since about 3 weeks into the beta, it's still unlikely because this particular hack hasn't resulted in a single ban wave in 2 years. Apart from that, there really is no way for them to detect him hacking. When you're in camera lock mode, all actions are client side. There's no way for blizzard to examine a replay and conclude that he's actually looking over the fog because those packets are simply never sent to the server. I would agree with what you're saying, except it's based entirely on speculation of how Blizzard's anti-cheating devices works. At the same time, while I'm willing to admit that Warden can't find everything, it doesn't mean that Blizzard does not have a copy of all or most cheating/hacking programs. I can promise you this, a multi-billion dollar corporation has the ability to have one of their guys run a google search, and find websites which offer such things, and then link back to other places which do too. It is my understanding that "private" hacks are basically "paid" hacks, which I am also sure someone at Blizzard's programming/anti-hacking/legal team could pay $10 for a hack. "undetected" is simply a term used to say "Warden can't see this". It's not to be confused with "Blizzard doesn't know this exists" or even better "Blizzard doesn't understand the personality and patterns that is brought on by the use of this". I would believe it more likely than not that Blizzard has been studying these things since their inception, and has quite a bit more information than Warden can gather. | ||
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Scootaloo
655 Posts
100% proof is not necessary in my opinion, even in court that is almost unheard of, and someone who is already a repeat offender can be convicted a lot easier, perhaps it's not just, but most certainly mathematically correct. And kellymilkies comments made me laugh, the woman who thinks a proxy twilight means fast blink is capable of spotting hacking now eh? User was warned for this post | ||
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