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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Holytornados
United States1022 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:06 Starshaped wrote: 09:50 on Cloud Kingdom. Or ~35 minutes in here http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912 I watched that part live, and in the replays, and cannot for the life of me think of a reason why he would move one inch before re-entering siege mode with his tanks except that he had vision of the army coming his way. | ||
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ronpaul012
United States769 Posts
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xNSwarm
155 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:03 TheLemontree wrote: There are other examples too I saw during Catz's VODs. I'm surprised they didn't pick up and talk about them, but they seemed to have already made up their minds. As Catz explained, if you command an action into the fog of war, such as right clicking or attack moving, the hack will allow your camera to be seeing an entire screen of fog of war. What Catz and co found suspicious was when he never viewed the fog of war through a left click. In one game even when he scouted he never viewed what his scv had seen. In his games where he isn't assumed to be hacking he regularly views the fog of war through a left click, as any normal player would. | ||
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OzVelas
Bulgaria516 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:00 ZenithM wrote: Yeah, I think it's just one of the best arguments. Nobody in their right mind (like above bronze), would waste a scan which has only 50% of landing on the opponent's fricking main at 5 minutes in the game, without waiting for the scouting SCV to at least confirm his spawning position. That's just retarded play. If you're not maphacking, that is... i just saw the scan, wtf 100% hacking | ||
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
On June 05 2012 23:45 papaz wrote: I'm so glad the justice system doesn't rely on trust. This thread has made me appreciate "innocent until proven guilty" even more. The only problem is, how else do you prove someone is hacking besides analyzing their replays. Unless someone is blatantly streaming themselves with their hack on there is no other way of proving that someone hacks besides what Catz and other TL netizens have done. | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:06 Starshaped wrote: 09:50 on Cloud Kingdom. Or ~35 minutes in here http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912 Where can I find this replay? This seems extremely suspicious to me as well from CatZ' point of view as well, but I need the replay to form my own opinion with all the available information. | ||
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TheLemontree
United Kingdom2 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:12 xNSwarm wrote: As Catz explained, if you command an action into the fog of war, such as right clicking or attack moving, the hack will allow your camera to be seeing an entire screen of fog of war. What Catz and co found suspicious was when he never viewed the fog of war through a left click. In one game even when he scouted he never viewed what his scv had seen. In his games where he isn't assumed to be hacking he regularly views the fog of war through a left click, as any normal player would. Ok that does make sense to me thanks | ||
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LorCHsc2
Spain103 Posts
We will talk about every one of the argument of this post. Time? 22:00 CET. If some one speaks english you can alert us in the Justin chat and we can try some english to you ^^ I'm trying to take a few GM players to discuts those arguments, game by game. Are you in? Did he use hack? Doesn't he? Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think... www.lorchtv.es/tv/ | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:14 StreetWise wrote: The only problem is, how else do you prove someone is hacking besides analyzing their replays. Unless someone is blatantly streaming themselves with their hack on there is no other way of proving that someone hacks besides what Catz and other TL netizens have done. There is this corporation known as Blizzard Entertainment. I hear they're the leading experts in StarCraft 2, and if they have not been actuated, it is likely that Spades isn't cheating. Speculation based evidence + no reaction from the authority in the field = guilty? Give me a break. | ||
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toiletCAT
Qatar284 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + First post, btw. | ||
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cooked
China1238 Posts
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slicknav
1409 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:12 ronpaul012 wrote: Well, the mob with pitchforks over at reddit appear to have spoken. Whether or not he's guilty appears to be irrelevant now that the mob will come after him. because there's no retarded mob here over at TL, right? | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:16 Chargelot wrote: There is this corporation known as Blizzard Entertainment. I hear they're the leading experts in StarCraft 2, and if they have not been actuated, it is likely that Spades isn't cheating. Speculation based evidence + no reaction from the authority in the field = guilty? Give me a break. yeah because blizzard bans all cheaters instantly there are no cheaters on their servers at any point in time... i hope you don't really think that... | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:18 sVnteen wrote: yeah because blizzard bans all cheaters instantly there are no cheaters on their servers at any point in time... i hope you don't really think that... If your ONLY evidence is that CatZ told you so, that means you've no right to call him guilty. If the ONLY people in the entire WORLD who can tell you if he was or was not hacking has not done so, you have no right to call him guilty. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Circumstantial Evidence | ||
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Xadar
497 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:14 the p00n wrote: Where can I find this replay? This seems extremely suspicious to me as well from CatZ' point of view as well, but I need the replay to form my own opinion with all the available information. I wish I knew, I would love to see it for myself. But Catz shows it all anyway. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:21 Chargelot wrote: If your ONLY evidence is that CatZ told you so, that means you've no right to call him guilty. If the ONLY people in the entire WORLD who can tell you if he was or was not hacking has not done so, you have no right to call him guilty. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Circumstantial Evidence What makes you think blizzard is in a position to judge whether he hacks? There has been a plethora of different undetected hacks since before sc2 had even been released... | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On June 05 2012 23:59 Starshaped wrote: Nobody defending Spades seems to want to touch the Cloud Kingdom moment. lucifron wished spades good luck before the game, he got his wish, what's wrong with that? How do you explain the fact that spades got rip apart by drops? you can't just cherry pick a single instant and say that's your proof that spades hacks, you must look at all the games as a whole. you can't just ignore other facts that contradicts your argument. What you guys doing is scientifically and logically foul play. Team liquid is better than this cluster fuck of mass logical fallacy. When spades, testie and TT1 was hacking during the BW days, ppl call them out for hacking way before the technology was available to detect hacks via replay, yet we didn't made this kinds of stupid accusation without irrefutable proofs. We are better than this. | ||
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Tippecanoe
United States342 Posts
On June 06 2012 00:22 hifriend wrote: What makes you think blizzard is in a position to judge whether he hacks? There has been a plethora of different undetected hacks since before sc2 had even been released... Even if they did find out that he hacked they wouldn't do shit. Impa the gm map hacker was streaming with his hacks on and blizzard still hasn't banned him. | ||
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