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GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating th…

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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.

Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence.
ZweiGaming
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada348 Posts
May 31 2012 05:48 GMT
#761
On May 31 2012 14:42 BuffloBEAST wrote:
Just in case anymore evidence is needed, here is a replay lightpwnr with some obvious map hacking:

http://replayfu.com/r/crSZPd


Thanks, will be adding it into the replay pack that I will foward to blizzard.
Karawasa
Profile Joined July 2011
United States58 Posts
May 31 2012 05:53 GMT
#762
On May 28 2012 13:51 CarelessPride wrote:
any1 realize hacks for wow get patched within days while maphacks been out for years and blizzard never gave a fuck? lol yea difference between a game earning them money and a game that doesn't.


This is the answer to everything. Not being sarcastic either.
-Hyu-
Profile Joined July 2010
United States21 Posts
May 31 2012 06:07 GMT
#763
wait so whatever happen with DSNinetail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDULDUYq06A&feature=g-u-u
Silvertine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States509 Posts
May 31 2012 06:13 GMT
#764
On May 31 2012 14:32 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 14:20 ZweiGaming wrote:
On May 31 2012 14:14 babylon wrote:
Is this thread now just a "report all suspicious activity!" thread ...?

Just report them to Blizzard, let them investigate, and play the game, guys. No need to get worked up over this.


This thread was about pointing out the growing maphackers in top masters/GM and is still is. My main post currently only contains obvious maphackers, which some already got banned. As you might have noticed, I am not adding names that we cannot be sure if it's either maphack or not even though lots of reports have just been about suspicious players.

I believe working as a community to gather replay evidences is the best way we currently have to fight back this wave of hackers.

I'm just kind of confused as to what you are hoping to accomplish here, because in the end, only Blizzard can take any sort of action, and you alert them of hackers by reporting it to them, which you can do without making a thread like this discussing any and all suspicious activity.

Impa and GameOfDrone were banned only because of this thread so it's pretty obvious what was accomplished. There's also use in the fact that we can converse and come to a consensus about whether or not a specific player hacks. If you play a single game against someone and their play is suspicious but not blatant then it's not really enough to report them. But here we can gather replays to make more informed decisions and if it is decided that a player hacks then there's that much more evidence.

If you actually looked throughout the thread you would see that the vast majority of cases are blatant, it's not "any and all suspicious activity". The OP has done a good job weeding out the few cases that don't seem legitimate.
GhoSt[shield]
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2131 Posts
May 31 2012 06:49 GMT
#765
On May 29 2012 22:37 FluidKMC wrote:
didnt read the whole thread but I think zergthrowaway is describing nerchio in the reddit thread.

for reference: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/u9n77/psa_if_you_suspect_someone_is_maphacking_please/


Here is zergthrowaway's entire post history for those who are interested. His latest posts actually names some EU players. Not sure if legit but this is worth a read.

Zergthrowaway's Reddit Posts
TechNoTrance
Profile Joined May 2012
Canada1007 Posts
May 31 2012 08:41 GMT
#766
On May 31 2012 14:14 babylon wrote:
Is this thread now just a "report all suspicious activity!" thread ...?

Just report them to Blizzard, let them investigate, and play the game, guys. No need to get worked up over this.


Maybe the thread went a bit off topic, but saying we should leave things to blizz and move on is silly. Any mad person can report, it doesn't mean a ton. Obviously bringing attention to these players cheating wouldn't be a bad thing. I bet a lot of people have lost to a hacker but didn't even think twice about it. Not everyone who hacks is as blatant as the guys above. If their names become known, and the player recognizes the maphacker before the game even starts, he will be more likely to know to report him.

Spreading awareness is never a bad thing.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-31 08:43:12
May 31 2012 08:42 GMT
#767
Eh, guys what you think of this lol. I thought it was pretty blatant, possible production+maphack from xOZergling
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=264185

I've played this dude a bunch of times on ladder, on smurf and main, and he has 6 pooled me before on 4 player maps, has the weirdest overlord scout patterns, etc.

In this game in particular...he has an overlord near my base, he's building a fast third hatchery, and then at 6:05 he goes straight to my base with his screen, not even touching his overlord to scout any lol. A few moments later he selects his third and decides to do nothing, and then the INSTANT a second banshee is queued up on the production tab he insta-goes to his third, cancels it and sends the drone back to mine lol.

The decisions make no logical sense, not to mention he has no basis to cancelling the third hatch there, and even GM players would not cancel the third hatch even if they had scouted the two port lmao! On top of this, after the game I asked why he canceled and he said "because he scouted 2 gas geysers and 'knew' it was two port banshees" lol. He could have checked the mini-map, he didn't need to look through the fog of war at 6:05, and he didn't even make an attempt to touch his scout overlord to even poke in o.o

The game before this, he 6 pools me on daybreak and insta-gg's when he sees there's a wall up lol. So this might be a possible mher...his macro is terrible for a GM.
Sup
Silvertine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States509 Posts
May 31 2012 09:17 GMT
#768
I've played xOZergling many times and his play is suspicious in the same way that I've described a number of other players in this thread. His micro and decision making are very poor but his game sense and counters are amazing. Our games are mirror matches and there hasn't been one time out of maybe 10 games that he hasn't won the coin flip of the initial build.

Unfortunately I almost never save replays or look at them so I can't be of more help than that.
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
May 31 2012 09:24 GMT
#769
Those LG players that got caught, is that the same LG as back in the BW days?
We make signature, then defense it.
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 14:10:34
May 31 2012 09:42 GMT
#770
--Nuked-- by myself.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 31 2012 13:15 GMT
#771
On May 31 2012 14:04 Doodsmack wrote:
I'd be interested to know if anyone has experience playing against Rafao on ladder. He's in GM this season and last but the season before that he was in platinum. His account shows 3100 wins in bronze in one season though so maybe that's the reason he was low, but still it's fishy. As of February he was losing games to plats and diamonds. There are replays of him at the below link, from a tournament I'm guessing...I'd be interested to see how his mechanics and decision making are.

http://www.sctemple.com/profiles/3191092-rafao/?show=replays&page=2#Replays

It seems this is another account of his, as the name given here matches the name of his ESL profile here. This account is in plat this season.



Just wanted to make sure this post doesnt get buried...has anyone else had reason to be suspicious of rafao?

So we have rafao, xOZergling and the 4 or 5 fake Flos that are potentially suspicious GM accounts we need replays for...
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
May 31 2012 13:24 GMT
#772
On May 31 2012 01:15 kmh wrote:
The paper also cites another paper called "Battle of Botcraft" (available at http://www.cs.wm.edu/~hnw/paper/hop.pdf ) that proposes a method of bot detection based on machine learning methods. This is something we could already start doing right now, without any changes to any network code. By categorizing replays into "hacks" and "not hacks", and detecting common features for the hacked replays we could make hack detection automatic.

For instance, looking at the dsninetail replay, action sequences such as:

15:55 DSNiNETAiL Deselect all
15:55 DSNiNETAiL Blink (Stalker); target: x=32.3,y=46.7
15:55 DSNiNETAiL Attack; target: x=37.9,y=54.9
---
15:56 DSNiNETAiL Deselect all
15:56 DSNiNETAiL Blink (Stalker); target: x=57.8,y=45.5
15:56 DSNiNETAiL Attack; target: x=48.6,y=46.3
---
15:56 DSNiNETAiL Deselect all
15:56 DSNiNETAiL Blink (Stalker); target: x=57.8,y=45.5
15:56 DSNiNETAiL Attack; target: x=48.6,y=46.3

crop up, the same way every time. The time stamp here fails to indicate that the above sequences happen within a single frame.

Squirtle's blink micro on the other hand generates action sequences as follows:

13:59 StarTale Select Stalker x3 (10830,10834,1083c), Immortal (205ec), Deselect 2 units
13:59 StarTale Blink (Stalker); target: x=95.5,y=159.7
14:05 StarTale Select Stalker (10674), Deselect all
14:05 StarTale Blink (Stalker); target: x=97.6,y=155.2
14:06 StarTale Select Stalker x3 (306d4,206e4,10834), Deselect all

Again, the timestamp here fails to indicate that the lag between the actions is much higher: to the tune of several hundred milliseconds.


Machine learning tools could find other indicators too. Comparing the hacked replay to a pro replay you find the following split in the hack replay:

+ Show Spoiler +
0:01 DSNiNETAiL Select Nexus (10298)
0:01 DSNiNETAiL Train Probe
0:01 DSNiNETAiL Select Probe x3 (102a0,102a8,102b0), Deselect all
0:01 DSNiNETAiL Right click; target: Mineral Field (101e0)
0:02 DSNiNETAiL Select Probe x3 (1029c,102a4,102ac), Deselect all
0:02 DSNiNETAiL Right click; target: Mineral Field (10144)
0:02 DSNiNETAiL Select Nexus (10298), Deselect all
0:02 DSNiNETAiL Right click; target: Mineral Field (101a4)
0:17 DSNiNETAiL Hotkey Assign 1
0:17 DSNiNETAiL Hotkey Assign 2
0:17 DSNiNETAiL Hotkey Assign 3
0:18 DSNiNETAiL Hotkey Assign 4
0:18 DSNiNETAiL Train Probe


Meanwhile, human players such as squirtle would have splits that generate actions as follows:

+ Show Spoiler +
0:01 StarTale Select Nexus (10250)
0:01 StarTale Train Probe
0:01 StarTale Select Probe x6 (10254,10258,1025c,10260,10264,10268), Deselect all
0:01 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (10114)
0:01 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (10114)
0:02 StarTale Deselect 6 units
0:02 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (10170)
0:02 StarTale Select Nexus (10250), Deselect all
0:02 StarTale Right click; target: x=129.9,y=162.7
0:03 StarTale Right click; target: x=129.9,y=162.7
0:03 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (100bc)
0:03 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (100bc)
0:03 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (100bc)
0:04 StarTale Hotkey Assign 4
0:04 StarTale Select Probe (10258), Deselect all
0:05 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:05 StarTale Select Mineral Field (100bc), Deselect all
0:06 StarTale Select Probe (10258), Deselect all
0:06 StarTale Hotkey Assign 1
0:07 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:07 StarTale Right click; target: Mineral Field (10118)
0:07 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:07 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:07 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:07 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:14 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:14 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:14 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:15 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:15 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:16 StarTale Select Probe (10264)
0:16 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:16 StarTale Select Probe x3 (10254,1025c,10268), Deselect all
0:16 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:17 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:17 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:17 StarTale Select Probe x2 (10258,10264), Deselect all
0:17 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:17 StarTale Select Probe x4 (10254,1025c,10260,10268), Deselect all
0:17 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:17 StarTale Hotkey Select 1
0:18 StarTale Hotkey Select 4
0:18 StarTale Train Probe


There are loads of potential indicators out there to mine data from, such as click speed/accuracy etc. By comparing these sorts of action sequences and finding indicators, we could get somewhere with automatic hack detection. All we would need are corpuses of "known hack" replays as well as "known good" replays to start training.

On May 31 2012 02:23 kmh wrote:
ObZen:

The replay analysis should be as automatic as possible to be of any worth. Further, it would be pretty catastrophic to have false positives. False negatives (labeling a replay as probably human when it is in fact hacked) would be more acceptable. The replays that are suspicious could then be human-reviewed. I don't envision a future in which blizzard can be arsed to use such a tool, but that doesn't stop us from creating it.

Now, obviously this doesn't detect passive map hacks or such, but we could certainly detect certain bot hacks such as queen inject hacks, blink hacks, burrow hacks etc. I'm guessing map hacks could have suspicious camera movement patterns that could be detected; we need to datamine replays to find that out. Who knows what will pop up?

But yeah, detecting patterns like this would make it worthwhile to create a database of "known hack"-replays as a starting point.

Good observation & idea! I suggested dakota_fanning that auto-ability hack detection would be implemented in sc2gears (or as a sc2gears plugin if somebody else would be interested to implement it): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124689&currentpage=137#2733

If somebody decides to implement this idea, it would be beneficial to collect example replays where different kinds of auto-ability hacks are used, such as auto-blink, auto-injection, auto-burrow and other sorts of possible auto-ability hacks (auto-worker-splits?, auto-transfusion?, etc). The best indication when watching a replay to detect that auto-ability hack is used is that the user selection does not change during the auto-ability action. For example if the user has his whole army selected, it seems that the whole army is still selected when a single stalker auto-blinks.
Felnarion
Profile Joined December 2011
442 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-31 13:32:09
May 31 2012 13:26 GMT
#773
You guys should be real careful with this kind of thing...Just throwing out names is a little irresponsible just because you're "suspicious"

In my opinion, you shouldn't mention a name until you have definitive proof. You could be causing someone a lot of grief for nothing.

And someone using a questionable BO, or not moving their army when it makes sense...or moving their army when it doesn't...That's not proof. THat's barely even suspicion. Watch a regular replay, you'll see people do it all the time. Don't tell me you've never had the thought "..There's a banshee coming" and looked for it without scouting it.
Gowerly
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom916 Posts
May 31 2012 13:29 GMT
#774
Yeah, there are a couple of people going "OMG look at this haxxxxx", but in general this thread shows a very methodical and cautious approach to reviewing the replays.
From what I've seen of the replays where the hacking has been confirmed, it seems pretty blatant.
I will reduce you to a series of numbers.
Eifer
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States138 Posts
May 31 2012 13:44 GMT
#775
On May 31 2012 18:42 FFW_Rude wrote:
Also what's with QuanticFlo being 6 or 7 times in GrandMaster (check on http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3162105/1/GameOfDrone/ladder/106953#current-rank ??? I am sure as hell she doesn't have that many account. Thought she was masters too.

Is there hacking going on there ? Does anyone have replays ? Because 7accounts with the same name in GranMaster is just fishy as hell for me.

EDIT :

Ranked 7, 21, 44, 98, 148, 178


No hacking.. A couple very high level players thought it would be funny to have accounts named QuanticFlo be rank 1-16 on gm.
This doesn't belong in this thread.
pingy[wen]
Profile Joined June 2010
United States157 Posts
May 31 2012 13:50 GMT
#776
Content:
1. he doesn't look through the fogs of war in the replay, but his screen pauses for a bit throughout the game.
2. 14 mins, sends entire army to kill one marine that he doesn't know is there.
3. 14:50 mins, walks up the ramp as if setting up a better concave to attack (not REALLY that suspicious UNTIL
4. 15 mins, stims entire army to attack watchtower which had my army (but he shouldnt' know that)
5. 19 mins, stims to kill my scouting factory JUST as it get around him.
6. 21:45, does a double take with the medivacs to avoid the zerg army, COULD just be trying to juke me out, just note it though.
7. 26:45, waits with his army selected slightly away from ledge. stims entire army, and catches my drop before he even has vision.


Replay:
http://drop.sc/172309

Profile:
http://sc2ranks.com/la/119429/NITRIXENERGY

he has 50apm at the end of the match, which is unusually low...even for offracing. doesn't use his OC energy well at all...though he is offracing apparently.
coL.hendralisk
Profile Joined September 2009
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
May 31 2012 13:52 GMT
#777
On May 31 2012 22:50 pingy[wen] wrote:
Content:
1. he doesn't look through the fogs of war in the replay, but his screen pauses for a bit throughout the game.
2. 14 mins, sends entire army to kill one marine that he doesn't know is there.
3. 14:50 mins, walks up the ramp as if setting up a better concave to attack (not REALLY that suspicious UNTIL
4. 15 mins, stims entire army to attack watchtower which had my army (but he shouldnt' know that)
5. 19 mins, stims to kill my scouting factory JUST as it get around him.
6. 21:45, does a double take with the medivacs to avoid the zerg army, COULD just be trying to juke me out, just note it though.
7. 26:45, waits with his army selected slightly away from ledge. stims entire army, and catches my drop before he even has vision.


Replay:
http://drop.sc/172309

Profile:
http://sc2ranks.com/la/119429/NITRIXENERGY

he has 50apm at the end of the match, which is unusually low...even for offracing. doesn't use his OC energy well at all...though he is offracing apparently.


The 1v1 on all the nitrix accounts are leveld by someone so the people who play team games on it are maphacking it seems
Silvertine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States509 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-31 14:17:20
May 31 2012 14:13 GMT
#778
On May 31 2012 22:26 Felnarion wrote:
You guys should be real careful with this kind of thing...Just throwing out names is a little irresponsible just because you're "suspicious"

In my opinion, you shouldn't mention a name until you have definitive proof. You could be causing someone a lot of grief for nothing.

And someone using a questionable BO, or not moving their army when it makes sense...or moving their army when it doesn't...That's not proof. THat's barely even suspicion. Watch a regular replay, you'll see people do it all the time. Don't tell me you've never had the thought "..There's a banshee coming" and looked for it without scouting it.

What's wrong with saying it's suspicious when that's clearly the case? That is how a number of hackers have been discovered in this thread. Someone posts a single replay that isn't blatant and then others can post replays against the same opponent. That leads to a better judgement regarding whether or not the person truly does hack. If you look throughout the thread you'll see a number of players who were only suspected at first but their mention lead to numerous replays being posted, ultimately proving that they hack.

If people decide to start harassing a player for being a hacker when clear proof hasn't been presented then that's their own fault.
lulutheking
Profile Joined April 2012
France106 Posts
May 31 2012 14:17 GMT
#779
On May 31 2012 22:52 HenryZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 22:50 pingy[wen] wrote:
Content:
1. he doesn't look through the fogs of war in the replay, but his screen pauses for a bit throughout the game.
2. 14 mins, sends entire army to kill one marine that he doesn't know is there.
3. 14:50 mins, walks up the ramp as if setting up a better concave to attack (not REALLY that suspicious UNTIL
4. 15 mins, stims entire army to attack watchtower which had my army (but he shouldnt' know that)
5. 19 mins, stims to kill my scouting factory JUST as it get around him.
6. 21:45, does a double take with the medivacs to avoid the zerg army, COULD just be trying to juke me out, just note it though.
7. 26:45, waits with his army selected slightly away from ledge. stims entire army, and catches my drop before he even has vision.


Replay:
http://drop.sc/172309

Profile:
http://sc2ranks.com/la/119429/NITRIXENERGY

he has 50apm at the end of the match, which is unusually low...even for offracing. doesn't use his OC energy well at all...though he is offracing apparently.


The 1v1 on all the nitrix accounts are leveld by someone so the people who play team games on it are maphacking it seems


Hes profile shows his playing 3v3 and 4v4 with Rafao who has already been mentioned in this thread
Machu PIchu
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
May 31 2012 16:34 GMT
#780
On May 31 2012 22:26 Felnarion wrote:
You guys should be real careful with this kind of thing...Just throwing out names is a little irresponsible just because you're "suspicious"

In my opinion, you shouldn't mention a name until you have definitive proof. You could be causing someone a lot of grief for nothing.

And someone using a questionable BO, or not moving their army when it makes sense...or moving their army when it doesn't...That's not proof. THat's barely even suspicion. Watch a regular replay, you'll see people do it all the time. Don't tell me you've never had the thought "..There's a banshee coming" and looked for it without scouting it.



not really in my opinion. If there is suspicion of someone hacking its a way of asking the community to gather intel for or against the one under suspicion. Most of the time it has been legit accusations but for the most part there has to be more then 1 single game of evidence to mark someone as a hacker. The OP has done a good job as remaining impartial until enough evidence has been provided to convincingly argue that someone is indeed a hacker. Thats why TL is the perfect place for the thread to exist because there might be alot of people to jump to conclusion about a supposed hacker but there is just as many people that demand far far more evidence then needed to ensure that there is no injustice. Its a balancing act yes, but this is by far the best place to do it and we do need there name not only to prove they are hacking but to prove that the are NOT hacking.
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