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Flash SC2 Replay vs KawaiiRice? - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Skaminator
Profile Joined October 2011
112 Posts
May 12 2012 17:17 GMT
#61
The thing about apm is that the bw pros most likely dont know how to use their spare apm yet. I mean in bw u didnt have mbs or worker rally, so there it goes.
shz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany2687 Posts
May 12 2012 17:20 GMT
#62
On May 13 2012 01:40 starcraft911 wrote:
I watched the replay and it looked like 2 1k level AM masters playing. Flash's APM was pretty low, but that doesn't mean it's not him. The thing that I noticed that made me think it was him is that he hotkeyed his fac and port separate from the raxes. From the interview flash said he kept his hotkeys from bw.


I think what he meant is, that he uses the BW construction hotkeys. M for Marine etc.
Liquipedia
ES.Genie
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany1370 Posts
May 12 2012 17:28 GMT
#63
Well in both TvTs he has an absurd amount of medivacs...
No Mvp, no care. ~ the King will be back | Shawn Ray, Kevin Levrone, Phil Heath |
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
May 12 2012 17:29 GMT
#64
I would say it is him yeh.
He made some 'stupid' mistakes that someone that doesn't know every single thing about the game would make.
But his mechanics were pretty damn strong.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-12 17:53:49
May 12 2012 17:30 GMT
#65
These are my thoughts

Some arguments on why it may not be flash:

- looking at first person view, when kawaiirice's reaper/scv first appeared on minimap, took a good 10+ seconds for player to even scroll over to them and respond to them. Flash should have better awareness imho.

- Maybe a bit nitpicky, but it would've been pretty easy to trap the (very injured) two reapers after they did damage with the marines sitting on the low ground, he let them get away.

- at 9:30, blue player view, player doesn't even notice the red blob that appears on the minimap, or check composition, the marines just autofire. Again, awareness is something that is pretty basic, and you'd expect Flash to be more aware.

-at around 12:45 or so, it was pretty clear from a fpv (to me anyways) that blue wasn't going to do further damage, but blue continued donating units (could have loaded up and ran). This could be an experience thing though, most of us here probably have more hours playing sc2/watching sc2 vods than flash would and so can maybe guage a winnable fight better? not sure. This could also have been a mis-rally, or just an experience mistake, so I'm not investing too much in this observation.


Some nice stuff:

when encountering red marine blob in a bad position at 10:30, the stim run back, reposition on high ground was really fast and cool. set blue up for being able to control the flow of the game and eventually win.

the final engagement was obviously really well done.


Very flash-esque stuff:

the drop play/positioning was very stylistically reminiscent of the FPVOD.


EDIT: After rewatching the FPVOD with him playing on cloud kingdom, there were also a couple cases of 'oops minimap' too (while macroing), not so major as in the replay though... *shrugs*
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
Zerum
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden348 Posts
May 12 2012 17:34 GMT
#66
On May 13 2012 02:20 shz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2012 01:40 starcraft911 wrote:
I watched the replay and it looked like 2 1k level AM masters playing. Flash's APM was pretty low, but that doesn't mean it's not him. The thing that I noticed that made me think it was him is that he hotkeyed his fac and port separate from the raxes. From the interview flash said he kept his hotkeys from bw.


I think what he meant is, that he uses the BW construction hotkeys. M for Marine etc.

No, when you ask a BW player bout hotkeys there talking about the controll group keys. This is a thing that is kinda uniqe for most player.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
May 12 2012 17:40 GMT
#67
On May 13 2012 01:21 iAmJeffReY wrote:
lol Was this after the 45 or so minute TvP KRice played where the epic nuke killed the protoss entire army?
Show nested quote +
He still had very good mechanics, he just wasent known for being fast if you compaire him to jaedong for instance. Does not mean he was this slow


...236 apm is not at all slow...

Flash's BW apm is usually in the 300-400 range, so while 236 isn't "slow" it certainly suggests Flash hasn't totally gotten used to the way SC2 works.
:)
dacimvrl
Profile Joined December 2011
Vatican City State582 Posts
May 12 2012 17:43 GMT
#68
On May 13 2012 02:11 sAsThark wrote:
I have a proof it's not Flash

[image loading]

As you can see, it's a human, not God


I have a proof you are a retard

[image loading]

As you can see, you are a retard

User was warned for this post
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
May 12 2012 17:44 GMT
#69
On May 13 2012 02:40 synapse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2012 01:21 iAmJeffReY wrote:
lol Was this after the 45 or so minute TvP KRice played where the epic nuke killed the protoss entire army?
He still had very good mechanics, he just wasent known for being fast if you compaire him to jaedong for instance. Does not mean he was this slow


...236 apm is not at all slow...

Flash's BW apm is usually in the 300-400 range, so while 236 isn't "slow" it certainly suggests Flash hasn't totally gotten used to the way SC2 works.


does 236 SC2 apm not convert to somewhere within the 300-400 'real time' apm range? Seems like it should be close, or maybe i have it backwards, and 236 is actually smaller in 'real time'
Furbie
Profile Joined March 2012
United Kingdom12 Posts
May 12 2012 17:48 GMT
#70
On May 13 2012 02:40 synapse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2012 01:21 iAmJeffReY wrote:
lol Was this after the 45 or so minute TvP KRice played where the epic nuke killed the protoss entire army?
He still had very good mechanics, he just wasent known for being fast if you compaire him to jaedong for instance. Does not mean he was this slow


...236 apm is not at all slow...

Flash's BW apm is usually in the 300-400 range, so while 236 isn't "slow" it certainly suggests Flash hasn't totally gotten used to the way SC2 works.


The apm shown in a replay is actually quite a bit lower in SC2 than Brood War due to it being measured in ingame minutes and not real minutes. So if my calculations are correct 236 SC2 apm is actually 326 Brood War apm.
If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em - Kirby
dsousa
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1363 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-12 17:50:01
May 12 2012 17:49 GMT
#71
I'd put it at 85% its him.

The fact that the FPSVod is down and that the account isn't playing anymore put its over 9/10 maybe.

I find it interesting he went CC first and that he was eager to take a 3rd and 4th.

He was well ahead at the 12 minute mark, but he took his time. Maybe he knew it was his last game on that account once KawaiiRice said "Flash?"

Just one game, but an amazing find by KawaiiRice. Now we can measure his rate of ascent

Bonkerz
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States831 Posts
May 12 2012 17:49 GMT
#72
Meh there are going to be a lot of threads like this in the near future, but dang, I enjoy watching these games FLASH FIGHTING
High masters terran streaming in 720p 60 FPS with commentary and analysis after every game twitch.tv/bonkerz1
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-12 17:58:44
May 12 2012 17:49 GMT
#73
he get supply block, because he is still not used to the 3 supply for tank
ObliviousNA
Profile Joined March 2011
United States535 Posts
May 12 2012 17:50 GMT
#74
On May 13 2012 02:44 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2012 02:40 synapse wrote:
On May 13 2012 01:21 iAmJeffReY wrote:
lol Was this after the 45 or so minute TvP KRice played where the epic nuke killed the protoss entire army?
He still had very good mechanics, he just wasent known for being fast if you compaire him to jaedong for instance. Does not mean he was this slow


...236 apm is not at all slow...

Flash's BW apm is usually in the 300-400 range, so while 236 isn't "slow" it certainly suggests Flash hasn't totally gotten used to the way SC2 works.


does 236 SC2 apm not convert to somewhere within the 300-400 'real time' apm range? Seems like it should be close, or maybe i have it backwards, and 236 is actually smaller in 'real time'

No, you're correct. The games are played on 'faster' which is a bit faster than normal time. If we say an in-game minute is 45 seconds of real time, then 240 actions in an in-game minute is 240*1.33 = 320apm real-time.
Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why.
dextrin303
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden320 Posts
May 12 2012 17:52 GMT
#75
Would love to see someone cast this replay..
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
May 12 2012 17:53 GMT
#76
Flash's 3rd barracks was idle too much time. Strange.
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
May 12 2012 17:53 GMT
#77
Does anybody know why he likes to keep his tanks unseiged during battles, except for when he's making a positional play?

Most current SC2 pros seem to always siege tanks in even smaller battles and "getting caught unsieged" is a pretty big deal. I'm assuming he does it for increased dps particularly against units that can get up close to the tanks, but it seems a bit strange that he wouldn't siege against stimmed marines, particularly in some of the decent sized engagements in both TvTs we have of him.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
Shardz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States349 Posts
May 12 2012 17:54 GMT
#78
Flash's play wasn't perfect, but it was obvious that it wouldn't be, after all, it takes a lot of practice to get used to it, bw and sc2 are very different games.
Oh Hi
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
May 12 2012 17:55 GMT
#79
Does anybody else think he is surprisingly aggressive?
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
ObliviousNA
Profile Joined March 2011
United States535 Posts
May 12 2012 17:57 GMT
#80
5600 downloads from one site... for a game that it claims was "played today". Anyone know the record?
Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why.
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