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It seems to me the basic effect of these two buffs is to move the late game composition earlier.
The queen and overlord buffs should allow a Zerg player to be even more greedy in the early game. This will allow them to get to Lair quicker and the final Infestor/T3 composition quicker. It strengthens and shortens the Zerg midgame where Terran was usually stronger. It also weakens what little early game pressure Terran could muster.
(I wonder if Blizzard wants to increase the Zerg player base ahead of HoTS?)
The observer buff also helps strengthen and shorten the Protoss midgame by a bit. Robo time can be used on immortals and Colossus bringing the late game death ball a little earlier. It also will help reduce the damage from banshees and drops.
(does anyone know if with chronos you could get an observer and kill a Ghost before a nuke landed if you don't start it until you hear the nuke warning? Assuming the ghost was in sight of the robo. )
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the range upgrade buff is far too much imho
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On May 12 2012 09:13 dgwow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:45 Satiinifi wrote:
thx alot for blizzard for making a great game.... and then slowly turning it to total horse shit, now terran is total garbage and every other race can just do what ever the fuck they want Lol aren't you the progamer Satiini? You should have a bit more respect for the game. Terran is still a decent race, and having terrans in the position of underdog can only be a good thing as there are so many terran tournament wins and therefore less incentive to innovate their strategies.
Satiini never won anything big, dont think he is a pro gamer either. Just a terran abuser that did well when terran was totally imbalanced. Now that Terran is only a little bit too strong compared to the other races he probably isnt even winning games anymore ^^
User was warned for this post
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Will this be the final adjustment prior to HOTS Beta commencing? Will WOL continue to be patched/adujsted up until the official release of HOTS?
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On May 12 2012 14:21 TheDna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 09:13 dgwow wrote:On May 12 2012 08:45 Satiinifi wrote:
thx alot for blizzard for making a great game.... and then slowly turning it to total horse shit, now terran is total garbage and every other race can just do what ever the fuck they want Lol aren't you the progamer Satiini? You should have a bit more respect for the game. Terran is still a decent race, and having terrans in the position of underdog can only be a good thing as there are so many terran tournament wins and therefore less incentive to innovate their strategies. Satiini never won anything big, dont think he is a pro gamer either. Just a terran abuser that did well when terran was totally imbalanced. Now that Terran is only a little bit too strong compared to the other races he probably isnt even winning games anymore ^^
He used to play protoss when terran was ''totally imbalanced''.
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On May 12 2012 13:22 DrLOAC wrote:
(does anyone know if with chronos you could get an observer and kill a Ghost before a nuke landed if you don't start it until you hear the nuke warning? Assuming the ghost was in sight of the robo. )
Nuke calldown and new CB'd observer build time are both 20 game seconds, so not quite.
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Dakota_Fanning
Hungary2359 Posts
I just played a few games with the changes... Holy shit, this buff is huge for Zergs in my opinion. The Overlord speed is the bigger part, this is such a huge advantage in scouting.
I don't think it was necessary to make Overlords this fast, but since I am best with Zerg and I like Zerg the most, I'm welcoming the changes...
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The queen range buff was necessary, now u can get creep spread in tvz if u invest some extra money, before this it was impossible to spread creep without investing alot of minerals in the early game.
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or you know... get 2-3 roaches...
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gg i quit terran needs more nerfs plz lmk
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I don't know why some people are so mad about this. It's not that big gamechanger like everyone claims. Terrans cry because Zerg finaly is able to get at least SOME scouting information even if the Terrran is wallin and put marines at the sides of his base? Awkward. There are such big maps now you weren't able to scout with an overlord and had no clue what happens in early game. Often it was like flip a coin and get a little bit of everything, detection for Banshees, spines for hellions, banes for Mass Marine-All in. The Queen buff may be unnecessary but it's not such a big deal. Your enemy won't be able to stop your Hellion Harras just because of this. It's just not that easy anymore to contain a Zerg with only 5 hellions and kill speedlings for nothing. I play Terran and Zerg.
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This changes don't suprise me at all. I already quited sc2, 1 patch ago, when i saw that blizzad has no intentions of fixing broken PvT metagame and this is just proving it again.
Maybe they are preparing the "terrain" so to say for HoTs, and after hots, then game will be more balanced, but atm just isnt worth playing as terran.
good day, svizcy
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I don't mind that they nerfed terran again. We're a good race, always have been. Zergs have trouble in Korea where the protoss and terrans are doing pretty well. I've been ok with a lot of terran nerfs in the past, reapers blue flames, tanks, mules on golds, snipe, a lot of these have been sensible because they were stupid or exploitable.
What I hate is HOW they nerfed TvZ, by punishing people for using standard hellion openers. Queens are so fucking good at getting rid of hellions now and ensuring excellent creep spread into the mid game, Zergs are now exempt from giving a shit and it's infuriating. Yes there are shitloads of ways to open and play TvZ but the ones that didn't have 4-6 or so hellions early tended to be heavily skewed in one direction, generally with huge holes in their builds somehow. It feels now to open in TvZ is to either:
1) make 4-6 hellions and look sad when the 2+ queens spread all the creep they want
2) Forgo hellions early and be really greedy/aggressive with bio.
3) make shitloads of hellions to get rid of queens and pray they don't do silly roach plays that just ezwin them the game.
4) cheese.
REALLY looking forward to all the new ways terrans open in this mu, hoping a new standard emerges that we can base plays off of.
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On May 12 2012 21:33 iaguz wrote:
I don't mind that they nerfed terran again. We're a good race, always have been. Zergs have trouble in Korea where the protoss and terrans are doing pretty well. I've been ok with a lot of terran nerfs in the past, reapers blue flames, tanks, mules on golds, snipe, a lot of these have been sensible because they were stupid or exploitable.
What I hate is HOW they nerfed TvZ, by punishing people for using standard hellion openers. Queens are so fucking good at getting rid of hellions now and ensuring excellent creep spread into the mid game, Zergs are now exempt from giving a shit and it's infuriating. Yes there are shitloads of ways to open and play TvZ but the ones that didn't have 4-6 or so hellions early tended to be heavily skewed in one direction, generally with huge holes in their builds somehow. It feels now to open in TvZ is to either:
1) make 4-6 hellions and look sad when the 2+ queens spread all the creep they want
2) Forgo hellions early and be really greedy/aggressive with bio.
3) make shitloads of hellions to get rid of queens and pray they don't do silly roach plays that just ezwin them the game.
4) cheese.
REALLY looking forward to all the new ways terrans open in this mu, hoping a new standard emerges that we can base plays off of.
Arent hellions just for killing creep tumors at that stage? Even if your hellions get hit while you're camping the natural, they can still do their assigned role, they just can't get away with it with 100% of their HP.
Unless you wanted to use those hellions to run past queens and kill drones (hahaaaaaa), then I can see where the problem is.
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On May 12 2012 21:23 sc_hell wrote:
I don't know why some people are so mad about this. It's not that big gamechanger like everyone claims. Terrans cry because Zerg finaly is able to get at least SOME scouting information even if the Terrran is wallin and put marines at the sides of his base? Awkward. There are such big maps now you weren't able to scout with an overlord so you had no clue what happens in early game. Often it was like flip a coin and get a little bit of everything, detection for Banshees, spines for hellions, banes for Mass Marine-All in. I play both Zerg and Terran and the Queen buff may be unnecessary but it's not such a big deal. Your enemy won't be able to stop your Hellion Harras just because of this. It's just not that easy anymore to contain a Zerg with only 5 hellions and kill speedlings for nothing.
Terrans cry because there is no way to slow down the creep spread until you have a decent sized ball of units that can actually put pressure on the zerg and kill the creep. Hellions were essentially that unit that kept the creep spread from becoming insane. Now you can push the creep pretty much no matter what the terran does, since you can relatively safely skip roaches against hellions and rather make a few more queen. + Show Spoiler +When the hellions try to kill the tumors that are being made, they take dmg from the queens. If the zerg is bad, the terran might kill that tumor(zerg can just cancel), but since the zerg has so many queens it doesn't matter anymore, and the terran is trading minerals for the queens energy(before the queens weren't able to shoot the hellions as reliably, so if he went more queens, if the queens were protecting the tumors, they simply could be attacked/killed, or the tumors could be killed).
The overlord buff I don't feel is *that* big deal, but just completely unnecessary. Zergs were imo doing fine enough, especially seeing as their strength lies in the fact that if they know what is coming, they can(usually) just prepare in time and crush it. Making it easier, I personally feel just makes zergs to safe and they can prepare to easily for anything their opponent throws at them(tbh I personally feel this is more of a PvZ nerf, TvZ the zerg usually sees in what general direction he needs to go)
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On May 12 2012 21:43 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 21:23 sc_hell wrote:
I don't know why some people are so mad about this. It's not that big gamechanger like everyone claims. Terrans cry because Zerg finaly is able to get at least SOME scouting information even if the Terrran is wallin and put marines at the sides of his base? Awkward. There are such big maps now you weren't able to scout with an overlord so you had no clue what happens in early game. Often it was like flip a coin and get a little bit of everything, detection for Banshees, spines for hellions, banes for Mass Marine-All in. I play both Zerg and Terran and the Queen buff may be unnecessary but it's not such a big deal. Your enemy won't be able to stop your Hellion Harras just because of this. It's just not that easy anymore to contain a Zerg with only 5 hellions and kill speedlings for nothing.
Terrans cry because there is no way to slow down the creep spread until you have a decent sized ball of units that can actually put pressure on the zerg and kill the creep. Hellions were essentially that unit that kept the creep spread from becoming insane. Now you can push the creep pretty much no matter what the terran does, since you can relatively safely skip roaches against hellions and rather make a few more queen. + Show Spoiler +When the hellions try to kill the tumors that are being made, they take dmg from the queens. If the zerg is bad, the terran might kill that tumor(zerg can just cancel), but since the zerg has so many queens it doesn't matter anymore, and the terran is trading minerals for the queens energy(before the queens weren't able to shoot the hellions as reliably, so if he went more queens, if the queens were protecting the tumors, they simply could be attacked/killed, or the tumors could be killed). I think everyone knows just how essential creep is for zerg, so having the creep decently close to your base at like 13-14 minute can be quite deadly and slows down any push insanely much.
See, now dont you think this is A LITTLE BIT exagerrated? Hellions will still work for killing creep tumors for crying outloud, just expect them to die sooner if you dont take care of them.
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Never ending terran nefs that sometimes don't make sense is the #1 reason I stopped playing SC2:WOL. I'm waiting for HOTS but I'm sure I will be dissapointed fast and stop playing again.
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It's very hard to kill creep tumours with 2 queens plinking away constantly at your hellions. Pre patch this was managable because you could force queens back by microing hellions and kiting queens. Once the queens left you could easily take out tumours. Also add in the fact that a range decrease is effectively a DPS increase for queens and this isn't really an option unless you have enough hellions (8+) to take out queens. And that is a shitload of hellions!
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On May 12 2012 21:47 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 21:43 Zarahtra wrote:On May 12 2012 21:23 sc_hell wrote:
I don't know why some people are so mad about this. It's not that big gamechanger like everyone claims. Terrans cry because Zerg finaly is able to get at least SOME scouting information even if the Terrran is wallin and put marines at the sides of his base? Awkward. There are such big maps now you weren't able to scout with an overlord so you had no clue what happens in early game. Often it was like flip a coin and get a little bit of everything, detection for Banshees, spines for hellions, banes for Mass Marine-All in. I play both Zerg and Terran and the Queen buff may be unnecessary but it's not such a big deal. Your enemy won't be able to stop your Hellion Harras just because of this. It's just not that easy anymore to contain a Zerg with only 5 hellions and kill speedlings for nothing.
Terrans cry because there is no way to slow down the creep spread until you have a decent sized ball of units that can actually put pressure on the zerg and kill the creep. Hellions were essentially that unit that kept the creep spread from becoming insane. Now you can push the creep pretty much no matter what the terran does, since you can relatively safely skip roaches against hellions and rather make a few more queen. + Show Spoiler +When the hellions try to kill the tumors that are being made, they take dmg from the queens. If the zerg is bad, the terran might kill that tumor(zerg can just cancel), but since the zerg has so many queens it doesn't matter anymore, and the terran is trading minerals for the queens energy(before the queens weren't able to shoot the hellions as reliably, so if he went more queens, if the queens were protecting the tumors, they simply could be attacked/killed, or the tumors could be killed). I think everyone knows just how essential creep is for zerg, so having the creep decently close to your base at like 13-14 minute can be quite deadly and slows down any push insanely much. See, now dont you think this is A LITTLE BIT exagerrated? Hellions will still work for killing creep tumors for crying outloud, just expect them to die sooner if you dont take care of them.
I do not. Don't get me wrong, the hellions might be in the zerg's face and cause a cancel on a tumor for the cost of like 60 hp each time, but that's hardly slowing it down. To slow a creep spread down, you need to be able to reliably kill the tumors, queens and/or prevent the queens from laying new tumors. Hellions can no longer do any of that
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I feel like they should remove the factory requirement for reaper speed now, zerg have got roach and queen range buff since 5 rax reaper was broken.
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EPT
