EPTPatch 1.4.3.2 - Page 68
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Falcor
Canada894 Posts
On May 12 2012 00:23 Doganaws wrote: Basically ther's NOTHING to *calculate* or *verify*. +2 range so no more Queen kiting w Hellions and/or Reapers => no more early game harassment w this units (unless you have pro player micro-control). No one whines or QQ just without reason. Low level players you're ASHAMED of will have troubles dealing with tis and (maybe) less fun. Every pach i see is triing to reach the goal of turning someone from a bronze player to GM within 2 days (Terran player obviousely): - no tier 3 units for late game - ultra difficoult marine management against some specific units - no more early game pressure vs some races And thees are just FACTS No early game harrasment with these units? Just because they can get dmg'd while attacking drones doesn't mean they can't harrass. All it means now is that harrasment is less likely to end the game right there. There's now actually a decision that has to be made is the harrassment worth it because i could actually lose hellions before i do game ending dmg, can i do enough dmg to justify it. Now to deny creep, the tumors are going to be at the edge of creep with queens defending...just scan run in with 3 or 4 hellions and 1 or 2 shot the tumor and run out, your hellion should take dmg but wont die. You say no more early aggression for low lvl players because it requires some mirco(it doesn't you'll just lose more now). What about the 2rgs who just lost outright to early agression...tough shit for bronzw zergs? | ||
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obsid
United States389 Posts
On May 12 2012 00:23 Doganaws wrote: Basically ther's NOTHING to *calculate* or *verify*. +2 range so no more Queen kiting w Hellions and/or Reapers => no more early game harassment w this units (unless you have pro player micro-control). No one whines or QQ just without reason. Low level players you're ASHAMED of will have troubles dealing with tis and (maybe) less fun. So? No more free damage from hellions/reapers in the early game, big woop. Yes those units will be more risky to go for early game, as they may no damage (but if you do slip in with a lot you can roast all the drones). Where did I get guaranteed free damage in the early game as zerg? Everything will adjust in the end, and a new equilibrium will be found, its not like terran is going to start losing at massive rates to zergs over this change. | ||
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Fabozi
Slovakia336 Posts
Queens are ridiculous @EGThorZaIN on Twitter i dont think he is that serious about that. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
If you build like 4 hellions and run up against 2-3 queens you should still be able to pick off 1-2 tumors without losing a hellion back up repair then do it again. This means as opposed to a complete contain its a partial contain. That is okay with me. | ||
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Bazinga
Germany132 Posts
On May 12 2012 00:52 Falcor wrote: No early game harrasment with these units? Just because they can get dmg'd while attacking drones doesn't mean they can't harrass. All it means now is that harrasment is less likely to end the game right there. There's now actually a decision that has to be made is the harrassment worth it because i could actually lose hellions before i do game ending dmg, can i do enough dmg to justify it. Now to deny creep, the tumors are going to be at the edge of creep with queens defending...just scan run in with 3 or 4 hellions and 1 or 2 shot the tumor and run out, your hellion should take dmg but wont die. You say no more early aggression for low lvl players because it requires some mirco(it doesn't you'll just lose more now). What about the 2rgs who just lost outright to early agression...tough shit for bronzw zergs? Just scan xD well you do know how much a scan costs? So you propose that terran players should pay 270 minerals to kill tumors? and if the zerg is going for like four queens you could do that mb two or three times before you would have to repair. Overall the range buff was not needed at all, hellions were manageable before with a little micro now they should be downright easy to deal with. Terrible change imho. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 11 2012 20:18 Notfragile wrote: What league are you playing in? Because at anything below high platinum you cannot understand my point and spending time explaining it to you would prove to be nothing but a waste. If you are high plat and above, you should be able to see my point about terran being able to take 2base (perhaps with 3CC) and deny scouting/3rd/creep for zerg, for the really low investment of 400 minerals. Zerg has to spend 100 for a spine, 150 for an extra queen and that is only to prevent him from dying. To break out of the contain the zerg player must make a roach warren (150) then make 4-5 roaches (300/100). That or wait for lair tech. In the meantime terran has a greater economy (2base vs 2base w/ mules) and can expand favourably or outright kill the opponent. MKP crushes zerg face because he understands that principle of never letting the zerg alive out of the midgame. You have a better economy and a marine/marauder/medivac mix (with some tanks here and there) can kill any compositiont a zerg with lowed econ can produce out of 2 bases). Let me be clear: The changes were not implemented for us scrubs. I can consistently break the hellion contain with lings, at high diamond, because even there player's multitasking sucks hard. The change was implemented becaue at the highest levels of play (top code S, MKP crushing zergs at early/midgame consistently) the game is played with a pre-set set of moves. A good (read: top code S) macro player can and will win all the time vs a good zerg, because of the huge advantage the unbreakable (without roach or lair) 4 hellion contain provides. (And yes...  )Terran != Zerg. You can't compare the cost of units like hellions, spine, and roaches like that. Do you account for the faster rate of droning? I'm a GM zerg and I think your point is stupid. I think it's stupid how zergs can take a 3rd easily without roaches and get 70 drones with no effort. I want to apologize for playing my race. | ||
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Zowon
Norway237 Posts
@ClouDsc2 Just look at Cyto's latest tweet. When a ZERG is actually HAPPY about the balance, you know something's wrong. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
On May 12 2012 01:20 T.O.P. wrote: Terran != Zerg. You can't compare the cost of units like hellions, spine, and roaches like that. Do you account for the faster rate of droning? I'm a GM zerg and I think your point is stupid. I think it's stupid how zergs can take a 3rd easily without roaches and get 70 drones with no effort. I want to apologize for playing my race. You take 3 base fast vs terran ? do you think it is viable at pro lvl ? do you think this patch will allow pro zerg du 3 base first and roll over terrans ? I think has always people are afraid about change. The reaper nerf was the huge deal. it didnt prevent terrans to win the majority of tournament. This patch makes sense and will doesnt not make zerg OP. | ||
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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mrjpark
United States276 Posts
Point being, let the metagame evolve and settle before claiming the sky is falling. I feel like this happens every patch, and Terran comes out fine every time. | ||
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:21 sCCrooked wrote: That's a horrible poll from n00b players with barely even 100 votes happening in any of the categories yet you're generalizing for a player base that's close to a million people. Good logic there. It's representative for the league-distribution on TL which is on average diamondish. So the poll is scewed towards higher then average league play. That doesn't mean it's invalid. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
That simply isn't true. Scans cost energy. It is a huge difference. | ||
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On May 12 2012 02:23 FLuE wrote: Please please please stop saying scans cost money. That simply isn't true. Scans cost energy. It is a huge difference. energy is not a comparable concept though. 50 energy on a queen aren't wort nearly as much as 50 energy on a oc (if you have more then 2 queens). but it's a standard zerg/toss tactic to deny the worth of mules when the topic is scans and exaggerate it when the topic is mules. | ||
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Hetz
196 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
While PvZ winrates tend to go out of control tournamentwhise, Blizzard brings in a buff for zerg, that has absolutely no impact on ZvP, but a damn huge on ZvT, which was so far the best balanced matchup in the game (proven by winrates all over the place)! Greatjob Blizz! Why focus on matchups where winrates go out of control? Let's just take the nearly 50-50 matchup and break it apart. Well done! I really hope for HotS to repair the bullshit they've done in the past months. If not, maybe LoL is a good alternative -_- | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On May 12 2012 02:27 Hetz wrote: If a race receives no buffs and the game is still balanced, what does that say about the race? What does that say about the players? I assume you're talking about the pros and not ladder players. | ||
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