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daaamn. thats sick for EG. gl to all involved.
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Now they will need days of photoshoots before they have enough pictures where ThorZain looks dramatic enough for the EG standard. 
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Really great video EG, made my day :p
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This is just positively surprising.
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Grats Thorzain and great video!
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On May 10 2012 07:35 ssg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:30 Myrkskog wrote:
Gentlemen, this is last straw and it will not stand!
For too long, EG has provided a sustainable model for western Esports. Their nefarious and endless work to secure sponsorships and grow Esports into a marketable product has driven this holy game into the hands of the capitalist devils! EG has wound the Starcraft world around their little finger. By serving as the shining example of how to run a western Esports organization, EG has sewn the diabolical seeds of their model into the virgin soil that is Starcraft 2!
For too long, EG has used their hard work and innovation to do nothing but pick up Code S talent like Machine, Demuslim, LZgamer, and Incontrol, rather than providing an environment for 'B' class players to grow and improve!
For too long, EG has given players with the talent and drive to make it to the top enough financial security to pursue their careers on the highest level! Idra, Huk, and Thorzain, players willing to make immense sacrifices to travel and live in a foreign country to improve their game have been swallowed up by the heartless conglomerate that is Evil Geniuses!
Comrades, EG has done nothing but take from Esports! Their shameless promotion of Esports, constant interaction with the community, and tireless work to bring Starcraft 2 into the spotlight is nothing but a clever veil to hide their true intentions to eliminate every team except for EG!
The EG masters cup, a world class tournament providing top level content to the community for free, is nothing but a thinly veiled plan to poach players from other teams! Do not be fooled by their $10,000 prize pool offered to all competitive players! For this is the most sinister of plots. Once EG has used the masters cup to recruit all the top talent in the world, the prize pools of their amazing free tournaments will do nothing but feed back into the beast, as EG team 'A' competes with EG team 'B' in the finals!
Friends, I have seen the future, and it is truly evil!
So this, EG, is your last chance! You will immediately release from your clutches all the top talent and personalities that you undeservedly take credit for nurturing and growing! Following this, you will prove your worth by recruiting the bottom 10 bronze players and developing them from scratch! You will halt your imperialistic expansion into the holy land, and offer these players not a dime more than the most poorly run, unsponsored, and non-contributive teams in the business can offer!
Until these demands have been met, my EG mousepad will no longer be used, and I will dedicate myself to a more deserving organization!
lol, too perfect. Respond haters.
Agreed, this is fucking fantastic and deserves to be quoted.
Also I want to see EG in GSTL the season after Liquid wins this one.
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On May 10 2012 07:54 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:46 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:17 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. If that's the case you should be telling everyone in mouz to go to school, because economically all of them are being stupid for doing pro-gaming, no? Few things. If I was rationally advising them on what should they do, I would tell them all to go to school. So yes, all mouz players (all smart enough SC2 players without higher education in general) should continue with education instead of playing SC2. But ultimately it is their choice and they are free to do stupid things and pursue whatever they want. Thus I am not arguing from rational advisor standpoint, because I am not responsible for them. The argument I was making was to point out that people saying that we should praise EG for making ThorZain economically well off are missing the fact that him going to school would make him economically even better off in the long term. To summarize, I was not saying what he should do. I was saying that there is no reason to praise/not hate EG for the money, as if we actually cared about ThorZain being well off we should encourage him to quit SC2. But people do not care purely about him being well off. People want him to play SC2 first and having a lot of money second. You have no way to know that for sure. I know plenty of people that went to school and are currently broke with an expensive ass piece of paper. Speculation ≠ Fact. Even if school is not expensive in Sweden (I don't know), there is never a 100% guarantee that school = life of happening and money.
You are telling me that we cannot predict a future precisely for a person ? No way. I thought that people reading my post are smart enough to know that we are talking about statistics and not guarantees. That is why I was using the word advice in my post. Of course he can quit progaming and fail school and accidentally find oil well on his property and be better off than both of those other paths.
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Was walking pass my computer when I decided to hit F5 on TL. I immediately sat down and read everything. Didn't expect this in the slightest but it's definitely in line with EG's stated goals.
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On May 10 2012 07:51 MNdakota wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:46 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:17 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. If that's the case you should be telling everyone in mouz to go to school, because economically all of them are being stupid for doing pro-gaming, no? Few things. If I was rationally advising them on what should they do, I would tell them all to go to school. So yes, all mouz players (all smart enough SC2 players without higher education in general) should continue with education instead of playing SC2. But ultimately it is their choice and they are free to do stupid things and pursue whatever they want. Thus I am not arguing from rational advisor standpoint, because I am not responsible for them. The argument I was making was to point out that people saying that we should praise EG for making ThorZain economically well off are missing the fact that him going to school would make him economically even better off in the long term. To summarize, I was not saying what he should do. I was saying that there is no reason to praise/not hate EG for the money, as if we actually cared about ThorZain being well off we should encourage him to quit SC2. But people do not care purely about him being well off. People want him to play SC2 first and having a lot of money second. If you become a pro just for the money instead of actually loving the game then you won't have a fun job.
Delaying uni makes a lot of sense if it's all paid for. Most have a better perspective on the whole thing who after a bit of live experience... that probably includes weird pseudo celebrity gaming experience..... also uni's much more fun when you can afford stuff (also unpopular fact, money even makes chicks dig nerds)
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On May 10 2012 07:58 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:46 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:17 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. If that's the case you should be telling everyone in mouz to go to school, because economically all of them are being stupid for doing pro-gaming, no? Few things. If I was rationally advising them on what should they do, I would tell them all to go to school. So yes, all mouz players (all smart enough SC2 players without higher education in general) should continue with education instead of playing SC2. But ultimately it is their choice and they are free to do stupid things and pursue whatever they want. Thus I am not arguing from rational advisor standpoint, because I am not responsible for them. The argument I was making was to point out that people saying that we should praise EG for making ThorZain economically well off are missing the fact that him going to school would make him economically even better off in the long term. To summarize, I was not saying what he should do. I was saying that there is no reason to praise/not hate EG for the money, as if we actually cared about ThorZain being well off we should encourage him to quit SC2. But people do not care purely about him being well off. People want him to play SC2 first and having a lot of money second. Okay. But you're still wrong. I could run the numbers, but assuming he makes 65k in the upcoming year, I can prove that it is more likely advantageous to stay pro one more year. Assuming school costs him 5k a year, and assuming he has a starting (actual work salary after graduation) of 30k increasing by 3% a year, the 65k PV today is going to be worth more than the slight advantage he has getting out of school earlier. Of course if going to school earlier lands him a CEO job 30 years down the road then this isn't true, but assuming standard procedure it actually makes more sense to play SC2. Now for other mouz players maybe not so much, since they hardly make any prize money/salary would be my guess. But for Thorzain in particular I believe it makes sense. That doesn't include the fact that if he enjoys the game then that's an added non-monetary benefit as well. EDIT: I haven't taken tax into account as I am not familiar with Swedish and Korean tax law (I am actually a tax accountant in Canada), nor am I familiar with any tax treaties. This could potentially change the argument towards going to school earlier, but it's too hard to say at this point.
I might be wrong if he actually earns what people are citing here (6 figures), but I see no reason to assume that.
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From my favourite foreign team to my least favourite foreign team T.T
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On May 10 2012 08:08 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:58 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:46 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:17 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. If that's the case you should be telling everyone in mouz to go to school, because economically all of them are being stupid for doing pro-gaming, no? Few things. If I was rationally advising them on what should they do, I would tell them all to go to school. So yes, all mouz players (all smart enough SC2 players without higher education in general) should continue with education instead of playing SC2. But ultimately it is their choice and they are free to do stupid things and pursue whatever they want. Thus I am not arguing from rational advisor standpoint, because I am not responsible for them. The argument I was making was to point out that people saying that we should praise EG for making ThorZain economically well off are missing the fact that him going to school would make him economically even better off in the long term. To summarize, I was not saying what he should do. I was saying that there is no reason to praise/not hate EG for the money, as if we actually cared about ThorZain being well off we should encourage him to quit SC2. But people do not care purely about him being well off. People want him to play SC2 first and having a lot of money second. Okay. But you're still wrong. I could run the numbers, but assuming he makes 65k in the upcoming year, I can prove that it is more likely advantageous to stay pro one more year. Assuming school costs him 5k a year, and assuming he has a starting (actual work salary after graduation) of 30k increasing by 3% a year, the 65k PV today is going to be worth more than the slight advantage he has getting out of school earlier. Of course if going to school earlier lands him a CEO job 30 years down the road then this isn't true, but assuming standard procedure it actually makes more sense to play SC2. Now for other mouz players maybe not so much, since they hardly make any prize money/salary would be my guess. But for Thorzain in particular I believe it makes sense. That doesn't include the fact that if he enjoys the game then that's an added non-monetary benefit as well. EDIT: I haven't taken tax into account as I am not familiar with Swedish and Korean tax law (I am actually a tax accountant in Canada), nor am I familiar with any tax treaties. This could potentially change the argument towards going to school earlier, but it's too hard to say at this point. I might be wrong if he actually earns what people are citing here (6 figures), but I see no reason to assume that.
if he's making money now, and most of all he's happy , where else should he go? i mean its so easy to be like "pshaw good education lands you a good job" but he gets to do what he wants to do (play starcraft), get sent to exotic locales (from Korea to America to Europe), and eventually he gets to settle down and get uni anyways.
you might make a plausible suggestion to players not making much, and not winning much, but still they are doing what they enjoy (else they probably won't be doing it). its not up to anyone to decide that the 9-5 job with consistent salary is the best way to live
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On May 10 2012 08:06 mostevil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:51 MNdakota wrote:On May 10 2012 07:46 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:17 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. If that's the case you should be telling everyone in mouz to go to school, because economically all of them are being stupid for doing pro-gaming, no? Few things. If I was rationally advising them on what should they do, I would tell them all to go to school. So yes, all mouz players (all smart enough SC2 players without higher education in general) should continue with education instead of playing SC2. But ultimately it is their choice and they are free to do stupid things and pursue whatever they want. Thus I am not arguing from rational advisor standpoint, because I am not responsible for them. The argument I was making was to point out that people saying that we should praise EG for making ThorZain economically well off are missing the fact that him going to school would make him economically even better off in the long term. To summarize, I was not saying what he should do. I was saying that there is no reason to praise/not hate EG for the money, as if we actually cared about ThorZain being well off we should encourage him to quit SC2. But people do not care purely about him being well off. People want him to play SC2 first and having a lot of money second. If you become a pro just for the money instead of actually loving the game then you won't have a fun job. Delaying uni makes a lot of sense if it's all paid for. Most have a better perspective on the whole thing who after a bit of live experience... that probably includes weird pseudo celebrity gaming experience..... also uni's much more fun when you can afford stuff (also unpopular fact, money even makes chicks dig nerds)
On the other hand your motivation to finish the school goes down with time and your brain gets lazier. Also you lack experience compared to your peers since you are delayed.
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Germany335 Posts
Just so sad for mouz, great pick-up for EG. Though he really doesnt fit the "Evil"-part...
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Wow.... major pick up! Good job EG
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On May 10 2012 08:08 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:58 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:46 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:17 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. If that's the case you should be telling everyone in mouz to go to school, because economically all of them are being stupid for doing pro-gaming, no? Few things. If I was rationally advising them on what should they do, I would tell them all to go to school. So yes, all mouz players (all smart enough SC2 players without higher education in general) should continue with education instead of playing SC2. But ultimately it is their choice and they are free to do stupid things and pursue whatever they want. Thus I am not arguing from rational advisor standpoint, because I am not responsible for them. The argument I was making was to point out that people saying that we should praise EG for making ThorZain economically well off are missing the fact that him going to school would make him economically even better off in the long term. To summarize, I was not saying what he should do. I was saying that there is no reason to praise/not hate EG for the money, as if we actually cared about ThorZain being well off we should encourage him to quit SC2. But people do not care purely about him being well off. People want him to play SC2 first and having a lot of money second. Okay. But you're still wrong. I could run the numbers, but assuming he makes 65k in the upcoming year, I can prove that it is more likely advantageous to stay pro one more year. Assuming school costs him 5k a year, and assuming he has a starting (actual work salary after graduation) of 30k increasing by 3% a year, the 65k PV today is going to be worth more than the slight advantage he has getting out of school earlier. Of course if going to school earlier lands him a CEO job 30 years down the road then this isn't true, but assuming standard procedure it actually makes more sense to play SC2. Now for other mouz players maybe not so much, since they hardly make any prize money/salary would be my guess. But for Thorzain in particular I believe it makes sense. That doesn't include the fact that if he enjoys the game then that's an added non-monetary benefit as well. EDIT: I haven't taken tax into account as I am not familiar with Swedish and Korean tax law (I am actually a tax accountant in Canada), nor am I familiar with any tax treaties. This could potentially change the argument towards going to school earlier, but it's too hard to say at this point. I might be wrong if he actually earns what people are citing here (6 figures), but I see no reason to assume that.
Even 65k is more than enough to beat out the odds, look at my analysis above. I think economically for 95%+ of players what you say makes sense, but for the top of the top (eg. Thorzain) it makes more sense to keep gaming.
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On May 10 2012 07:53 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:32 Dosey wrote:On May 10 2012 07:09 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:On May 10 2012 06:55 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:53 FairForever wrote:On May 10 2012 06:52 mcc wrote:On May 10 2012 06:47 mahO wrote:
People saying "nooo" "oh no I hate EG", well, idiots, I'm not a huge fan of EG but guess what? They allowed Thorzain to stay in the SC2 pro scene and play, thats right, you ungrateful nerds should realize sometimes that it is those people that are actually making esport live...
And again, not an EG fan...
On topic, gl to both, feel like Thorzain should be a new kickstart for EG's results, seems needed those days If you actually cared for ThorZain's well-being you would wish he quit SC2 and went to school. And I couldn't care less about esports. Because you know what's best for Thorzain better than he knows himself, right? Yes. well considering huk is reportedly paid 6 figures... i think its not that bad How long can he keep that up ? From economical (which I am arguing from) standpoint your best bet is going to school. Of course from general point of view I cannot know what is best for ThorZain. But school is statistically your best bet anyway in nearly all scenarios. From an economical standpoint, his best bet would be to take the money now while he is in his prime and go to school later when he can afford it. Schooling (especially in America) isn't cheap and interest on student loans isn't exactly forgiving. He isn't saying no to school alltogether. He is postponing it. School isn't a "Do it now or don't do it at all!" kind of thing. On the other hand, a major payday in a StarCraft career is. He is from Sweden where university education is close to free. But doing school earlier is better than doing it later. One year postponement probably makes your long term gains only marginally worse, so no problem there really.
You talk as if you get a $10,000 raise with each year of experience in your job after graduating.
Let's use an example.
Teachers get paid ~$30k-$40k/yr in the US at an entry level. Most teachers with Doctorates peak at about $60-80k by the 20 yr mark. So, that is a 40k jump in 20 yrs (After the 9 years of schooling, but we'll leave that out of the equation to make things simpler) That is basically a $2000 raise per year. Your argument is that if he goes to school now, it is better in the long run.
Let us assume he gets paid $50,000 base salary from EG and ignore incentives. So far this year he has earned ~$15,000 on top of that. Assuming he continues and earns another $15,000 (this is on the low side) he has now earned $80,000 in one year. So he cost himself a $2000 raise by delaying another year of schooling in order to earn himself $80,000 as opposed to $0.00 (zero money earned while in school due to no career/job while at his studies) He has earned 100% more in one year than he would in a career after 4-9 years of schooling in an entry level job.
I don't understand how he hurt himself in the long run?
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Good luck to Thorzain! Terrific pick up for EG.
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you guys dont have to like eg. i dont understand the hate though.
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rofl, props for the video, but WHY, THORZAIN
Anybody but EG T_T
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EPT
