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On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry.
Just when I thought the metaphors couldn't get more ridiculous in arguing against (or for) Destiny.
I'm going to go punch a puppy now.
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On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined.
It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments.
There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad.
If you did actually care about driving away sponsors then maybe you should acknowledge that it was Destiny and his actions that the sponsors did not like. Destiny and his behaviour were the issue of concern for the sponsors. What you cannot seem to stomach is that the sponsors agreed with me that his behaviour was unacceptable. It is Destiny and his ungoverned behaviour that was likely to turn away sponsors from the scene. Instead of condemning this behaviour that the sponsors had issue with, you are supporting Destiny and his behaviour. So you are supporting behaviour that the sponsors found objectionable. If everyone in the SC2 community agreed with you then the sponsors would all leave because they cannot be associated with racial abuse and those who condone it.
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On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad.
This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now.
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On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now.
Let's simplify it then.
Destiny said gook, Razer found out, Destiny no longer with Razer.
People who disagree that gook is a racial slur should complain to razer for misapplying justice.
People who agree that gook is a racial slur should complain to Razer that Destiny is racist.
No matter what side you are on the topic--Razer is who you talk to, not TL.
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On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined.
The difference is, the TV show Glee promoting acceptance of gay people isn't doing anything wrong by our social standard; there is nothing wrong with promoting acceptance of homosexual. Therefore, the Christian group complaining about it are in the wrong, because they are complaining about something that there is nothing wrong with it from a logical or social standpoint.
On the other hand, there IS something wrong with racial slurs. Therefore, people complaining about racial slurs are complaining about something that is wrong.
Or are you suggesting that there is ok for someone to keep a racist mindset? And that people that are trying to eliminate racism overall by in your words "demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else" is wrong?
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On May 08 2012 11:16 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now. Let's simplify it then. Destiny said gook, Razer found out, Destiny no longer with Razer. People who disagree that gook is a racial slur should complain to razer for misapplying justice. People who agree that gook is a racial slur should complain to Razer that Destiny is racist. No matter what side you are on the topic--Razer is who you talk to, not TL.
Razer is the last person you should talk to. Did you skip all of Cinergy's posts? You have to talk to TL first to figure out with your peers whether there is actually a problem to begin with. You find that a guy BMed on the ladder and need a sounding board. If you really still think there is a problem after bouncing it off your peers, you can write to the fucking team that manages the player. You should never jump to filling Razer inboxes with mail maligning their team and put all the parties involved in a really tough spot. That strikes me as a spoiled attitude.
Destiny said gook, Razer found out, Destiny no longer with Razer.
You should not be proud of how little analysis of the situation you've done if you pretend to have an informed opinion for any side.
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I think the solution is rather simple that we need teams and leagues to set out very clear-cut standards for their players and when players violate the standards set forth by the team and it's sponsors there needs to be a punishment. Every other professional league and teams have something like this set forward, and this is the reason you don't see NBA players on professional teams acting how ever they want when they want.
Look at some of the players banned/suspended by the NBA and their reasoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_banned_or_suspended_by_the_NBA
u
There has been plenty of other team-imposed punishments from violating the teams standards, including missing a lot of practice, racism, etc.
Basically all pro teams and leagues need to have a set of standards and punish for not following those standards. It might even be helpful for leagues to cooperate with each other and when a player is banned he is banned from several leagues/tournaments.
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On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now.
No the reaction of the sponsors was concern about racial slurs by someone associated with them. No company can afford the negative PR of being associated with racism. Go write to the sponsors and tell them you support racist behaviour and see how far that gets you.
How about you condemn people making racist comments instead of jumping through hoops criticising those who oppose it?
The sponsors agree with my stance on racist comments and not yours. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21 st century where people of all races have to use the same entrances to buildings. You may find this an unwelcome development but you'll survive.
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On May 08 2012 09:52 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:50 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:36 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI Really now? One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. The other side saw that actions on the internet had repercussions and whined on TL. Hmm.... who was more mature? No, one side saw someone say a mean word that didn't hurt anyone (you know, because its a word typed on a screen,) and attacked that persons ability to make money, heedless of the possible collateral damage. The other side saw bigots (look up the word) attempting to force someone to adhere to their own personal beliefs and protested this on TL I think it should be pretty clear who was more mature. Hmm... Was mass mail sent to Destiny asking him to change his ways? Oh that's right, no. Destiny wasn't asked to change, a complaint was made to his sponsor showcasing a dislike of the product available. Did Destiny use a racial slur? Yes. Destiny was asked to change his ways. Instead we got some ridiculous memes and a defense of his actions. Go back to the original thread to see Destiny's responses - they were rude. If he had apologized I would've been okay with it - people make mistakes all the time. Posting a meme of Spiderman talking about "raining fucks" isn't the way to make amends.
In fairness, a lot of his responses came after the "morally correct" wished emotional and physical harm upon his child.
Anyone calling back to that thread is simply wrong. No matter what he said at any time, he was more than coerced.
As for nobody emailing Destiny, fine, he wouldn't have changed in that respect. But I doubt there were more than 20 unique email addresses that sent Quantic anything about his behavior over the course of the months he was with them (these 20 would be the vast minority, looking at his stream count alone, even now, as he's streaming FF7 ffs).
The bottom line is simply that you're more than welcome to send emails and contact sponsors. Just know you're doing immense damage to the scene and are not universally in the right. Cinergy's spelled it out to you all from a team management's point of view, and you can listen or not, but that's the truth right there.
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On May 08 2012 11:29 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now. No the reaction of the sponsors was concern about racial slurs by someone associated with them. Go write to the sponsors and tell them you support racist behaviour and see how far that gets you. How about you condemn people making racist comments instead of jumping through hoops criticising those who oppose it? The sponsors agree with my stance on racist comments and not yours. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21 st century where people of all races have to use the same entrances to buildings. You may find this an unwelcome development but you'll survive.
I don't support racist behavior, nor am I racist. Your mob mentality is stopping you from seeing that there are possible solutions to this situation besides 1) Do nothing and 2) Cut Destiny/the entire Quantic team. Those were the only options left when this was made Razer's problem. There are solutions that Quantic management could have at least explored if they had been contacted before everyone spammed Razer and made it their problem.
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On May 08 2012 10:49 DarkInfinity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. This is my last comment on this post. There are some things that are certainly wrong. Murder is wrong. If there was a known murderer on an SCII team, and they lived in a place where it was legal, I hope we all would demand that he is removed from that team. I'm not saying that many other things have an absolute right/wrong to them, but we get to choose the people who represent this community, and we can only do that based on our own morals, which are all based on the absolute truth of equality by way of birth.
I swear, sometimes it feels I'm arguing politics with Fox News Republicans who are intentionally trying to misinterpret words or twist situations in order to make it appear to support their viewpoint. Comparing offensive language to murder is ridiculous.
1) For offensive language, you can choose how to feel about it, and you can also choose to avoid the person using it. Murder does not work that way.
2) Murder is universally considered to be an extreme offense that must be answered with a heavy punishment. Should a murderer go free, an angry mob demanding punishment is justified. Acting like a dick in an poor attempt to be entertaining during an internet show is a relatively small offense, and to many people is not even an offense at all. An angry mob in this situation is uncalled for.
Finally, you say "we get to choose the people who represent this community". Who exactly is getting to choose, here? Only the vocal complaining minority got to have any input in these situations, and they got to choose to try to have someone removed. The many thousands of people who are entertained by and support players like Destiny didn't get to have any input.
We should let the most skilled and most entertaining people rise to the the top, being "chosen" by their popularity and support, instead of creating a system to tear down those players who don't fit in with the standards of vocal minorities. Or do you think it would be OK for a vocal religious group of players to mass-complain to sponsors and have a player like Scarlett fired from her team for not fitting in with what they see as acceptable?
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On May 08 2012 11:32 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:29 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now. No the reaction of the sponsors was concern about racial slurs by someone associated with them. Go write to the sponsors and tell them you support racist behaviour and see how far that gets you. How about you condemn people making racist comments instead of jumping through hoops criticising those who oppose it? The sponsors agree with my stance on racist comments and not yours. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21 st century where people of all races have to use the same entrances to buildings. You may find this an unwelcome development but you'll survive. I don't support racist behavior, nor am I racist. Your mob mentality is stopping you from seeing that there are possible solutions to this situation besides 1) Do nothing and 2) Cut Destiny/the entire Quantic team. These are solutions that Quantic management could have at least explored if they had been contacted before everyone spammed Razer and made it their problem.
I don't have a mob mentality thank you very much. Don't make up stuff. My opinion is formed independently and not by consensus on an internet forum.
I am not denying that there are other responses other than contacting the sponsors. I have never said otherwise. Quantic may have sorted this out themselves. I am not claiming that going direct to the sponsors was either the preferable or optimal course of action.
I am objecting to the various posters in this thread who are actually trying to defend Destiny's behaviour and claiming that racist slurs are either not an issue of concern or that calling someone a gook is not an incident of racist abuse.
I am opposing support for racist behaviour I see in this thread. It is good to know that you don't support racist behaviour. It is good to know that you are not racist. How about you direct your ire towards the real cause of this controversy - Destiny's behaviour. It is this behaviour that caused concern for the sponsors. If there was nothing wrong in his actions, then the sponsors would have laughed about it and shrugged off the notifications that they received about this incident. It was the sponsors who made the judgement that they needed to take steps because Destiny's behaviour was of concern to them because it had financial implications to them due to the social stigma of racism.
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On May 08 2012 11:34 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:49 DarkInfinity wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. This is my last comment on this post. There are some things that are certainly wrong. Murder is wrong. If there was a known murderer on an SCII team, and they lived in a place where it was legal, I hope we all would demand that he is removed from that team. I'm not saying that many other things have an absolute right/wrong to them, but we get to choose the people who represent this community, and we can only do that based on our own morals, which are all based on the absolute truth of equality by way of birth. I swear, sometimes it feels I'm arguing politics with Fox News Republicans who are intentionally trying to misinterpret words or twist situations in order to make it appear to support their viewpoint. Comparing offensive language to murder is ridiculous. 1) For offensive language, you can choose how to feel about it, and you can also choose to avoid the person using it. Murder does not work that way. 2) Murder is universally considered to be an extreme offense that must be answered with a heavy punishment. Should a murderer go free, an angry mob demanding punishment is justified. Acting like a dick in an poor attempt to be entertaining during an internet show is a relatively small offense, and to many people is not even an offense at all. An angry mob in this situation is uncalled for. Finally, you say "we get to choose the people who represent this community". Who exactly is getting to choose, here? Only the vocal complaining minority got to have any input in these situations, and they got to choose to try to have someone removed. The many thousands of people who are entertained by and support players like Destiny didn't get to have any input. We should let the most skilled and most entertaining people rise to the the top, being "chosen" by their popularity and support, instead of creating a system to tear down those players who don't fit in with the standards of vocal minorities. Or do you think it would be OK for a vocal religious group of players to mass-complain to sponsors and have a player like Scarlett fired from her team for not fitting in with what they see as acceptable?
+ Show Spoiler +
Your point about people e-mailing sponsors is no difference then people e-mailing glee was beautiful. I would like to expand on your point that we should let people rise to the top without interference. If the majority of the community cared about Destiny`s vulgar language he would never have become popular in the first place, when in reality he is arguably the top streamer in all of the community.
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On May 08 2012 11:34 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:49 DarkInfinity wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. This is my last comment on this post. There are some things that are certainly wrong. Murder is wrong. If there was a known murderer on an SCII team, and they lived in a place where it was legal, I hope we all would demand that he is removed from that team. I'm not saying that many other things have an absolute right/wrong to them, but we get to choose the people who represent this community, and we can only do that based on our own morals, which are all based on the absolute truth of equality by way of birth. I swear, sometimes it feels I'm arguing politics with Fox News Republicans who are intentionally trying to misinterpret words or twist situations in order to make it appear to support their viewpoint. Comparing offensive language to murder is ridiculous. 1) For offensive language, you can choose how to feel about it, and you can also choose to avoid the person using it. Murder does not work that way. 2) Murder is universally considered to be an extreme offense that must be answered with a heavy punishment. Should a murderer go free, an angry mob demanding punishment is justified. Acting like a dick in an poor attempt to be entertaining during an internet show is a relatively small offense, and to many people is not even an offense at all. An angry mob in this situation is uncalled for. Finally, you say "we get to choose the people who represent this community". Who exactly is getting to choose, here? Only the vocal complaining minority got to have any input in these situations, and they got to choose to try to have someone removed. The many thousands of people who are entertained by and support players like Destiny didn't get to have any input. We should let the most skilled and most entertaining people rise to the the top, being "chosen" by their popularity and support, instead of creating a system to tear down those players who don't fit in with the standards of vocal minorities. Or do you think it would be OK for a vocal religious group of players to mass-complain to sponsors and have a player like Scarlett fired from her team for not fitting in with what they see as acceptable?
If only Razer was getting a tidal wave of customer praise for how awesome Destiny's use of gook was in order to drown out the complaints.
Oh wait--only people against Destiny are allowed to send emails to sponsors correct? Razer rips up and doesn't listen to any supportive emails right?
If it was as simple as "Destiny got a lot of hate mail so razer kicked him out" then all that was needed for Destiny to remain in Razer was for him to get a lot of praise mail. Correct? Where was the outpour of support for Destiny using racist and homophobic slurs on his stream? If it truly is just a minority opinion, it's easy to prove it right?
All the supporters of the word gook, send email to Razer saying gook is a perfectly fine insult to throw around and that Razer should be supportive of its usage. Please, let your arguments be sent to people who matter, not just TL.
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On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism.
Translation: "haha, those silly groups with their strange moral code, trying to control the actions of others... what a bunch of crazies. Luckily I follow the correct and accurate set of morals, and am completely justified in my attempts to control others with it."
So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments.
Like I said, you need to get your head examined. If you are unable to see the difference between supporting the right to use free speech without losing your job and supporting racism, then something isn't working right in there.
My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours.
There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
What you cannot seem to stomach is that the sponsors agreed with me that his behaviour was unacceptable. It is Destiny and his ungoverned behaviour that was likely to turn away sponsors from the scene.
I take no issue with the actions of Quantic or Razer. They did what they had to do.
If everyone in the SC2 community agreed with you then the sponsors would all leave because they cannot be associated with racial abuse and those who condone it.
If everyone agreed with me, there would be no outcry and no reason for sponsors to leave. We'd have an uncensored community where players wouldn't be afraid to express unusual or unpopular opinions out of fear of punishment. Sounds just fine to me.
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On May 08 2012 11:29 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now. No the reaction of the sponsors was concern about racial slurs by someone associated with them. No company can afford the negative PR of being associated with racism. Go write to the sponsors and tell them you support racist behaviour and see how far that gets you. How about you condemn people making racist comments instead of jumping through hoops criticising those who oppose it? The sponsors agree with my stance on racist comments and not yours. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21 st century where people of all races have to use the same entrances to buildings. You may find this an unwelcome development but you'll survive.
Was that really their stance though?
I mean, without a press release stating "Oh hey, we don't like people saying gook, we needed destiny gone!" I kinda get the feeling a lot of the opinions on just what went down and why are a little off. I mean in fairness I only read like 27 of the pages of this thread, I could have missed something. Did razer come in here and say they don't like players on teams they sponser using slurs?
I don't honestly think Razer would even threaten to create an opinion and stance on this kind of thing at all. I think they may not like the usage of the words, but until it's brought to their attention they're happy to live and let live. They're sent a lot of mail talking about potential customers no longer being customers because of one player on one team and they're going to try and have their underlings fix it. They don't care why they're losing people, they just want it to stop. I guarantee you, if you have 1000 people write to Razer saying you'll no longer be their customer because you don't like their color scheme someone's shit is going to hit the fan. It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of return on investment. "Oh hey, the customers hate green! Design team! We need something new! Chop-chop!"
We need to stop assuming that because we feel something is right, it is the universal correct stance. Until proven otherwise, business is business, and if you don't understand business don't assume you know why something happened.
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On May 08 2012 11:32 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:29 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now. No the reaction of the sponsors was concern about racial slurs by someone associated with them. Go write to the sponsors and tell them you support racist behaviour and see how far that gets you. How about you condemn people making racist comments instead of jumping through hoops criticising those who oppose it? The sponsors agree with my stance on racist comments and not yours. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21 st century where people of all races have to use the same entrances to buildings. You may find this an unwelcome development but you'll survive. I don't support racist behavior, nor am I racist. Your mob mentality is stopping you from seeing that there are possible solutions to this situation besides 1) Do nothing and 2) Cut Destiny/the entire Quantic team. Those were the only options left when this was made Razer's problem. There are solutions that Quantic management could have at least explored if they had been contacted before everyone spammed Razer and made it their problem.
Yeah man, it's not like Destiny knew about the whole ordeal--otherwise he would have been able to properly explain to Quantic that him calling people Gook was actually good for Quantic and for Razer. He's smart--I'm sure he can convince them that it benefits everyone if he kept using the word Gook.
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On May 08 2012 11:48 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. Translation: "haha, those silly groups with their strange moral code, trying to control the actions of others... what a bunch of crazies. Luckily I follow the correct and accurate set of morals, and am completely justified in my attempts to control others with it." Show nested quote + So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. Like I said, you need to get your head examined. If you are unable to see the difference between supporting the right to use free speech without losing your job and supporting racism, then something isn't working right in there. Show nested quote +
My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours.
There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Show nested quote + What you cannot seem to stomach is that the sponsors agreed with me that his behaviour was unacceptable. It is Destiny and his ungoverned behaviour that was likely to turn away sponsors from the scene. I take no issue with the actions of Quantic or Razer. They did what they had to do. Show nested quote +If everyone in the SC2 community agreed with you then the sponsors would all leave because they cannot be associated with racial abuse and those who condone it. If everyone agreed with me, there would be no outcry and no reason for sponsors to leave. We'd have an uncensored community where players wouldn't be afraid to express unusual or unpopular opinions out of fear of punishment. Sounds just fine to me.
Supporters and haters could have sent mail.
Supporters didn't despite knowing haters were sending mail.
Conclusion--supporters don't actually care and are just whining on TL to cause drama.
Rebuttal?
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On May 08 2012 08:59 Fencer710 wrote:
I feel like this is turning into another Destiny thread.
OP, maybe you should make the words "This is not meant to be a Destiny thread" Capitalized and Red.
I know ... But things always seem to circle back to the big topic of the day. I apologize to the mods who have to read through this. This was never my intention. It was a good discussion for a good portion of the thread I would think; I suppose that's a plus.
There are at least a few in the fire that are still responding to the original post though.
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On May 08 2012 11:49 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:29 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 11:11 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 11:02 revel8 wrote:On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined. It's not your place to dictate to me what my job is either thank you very much. You are an apologist for racist insults. Well done, you must be proud. It is laughable that because I am opposed to racism you imply I am bigoted and compare my stance of opposing racism to those who display homophobic behaviour or religious fundamentalism. So being opposed to racism is now an example of bigotry? Hilarious. You are just embarrassing yourself now in your desperation to defend racist comments. There are people in this thread who are pretending that Destiny calling someone a Gook was not an incidence of using a racist slur. Destiny's behaviour was brought to the attention of his sponsors. They looked at his behaviour and judged it inappropriate. Go and cry to them about how you support racist behaviour and think it should continue. Don't bleat to me because the real commercial world in the 21st Century does not tolerate racial abuse. My moral code is the code of modern progressive society in which racism is not tolerated but opposed, if your personal moral code is lacking and anachronistic then that is not my problem, it's yours. Thankfully the kkk demographic is now on the fringes of society. If you find that frustrating then too bad. This is full of strawmen and just misunderstandings. The reaction of sponsors is basically "we don't want emails sent to us and causing a shitstorm" so Destiny left. The people like me who are trying to spread awareness not by ignoring a problem and blanket blacklisting certain words are not necessarily the people who argue it's childish to write to sponsors before writing to the team and to email the sponsors just because it's the bandwagon thing that the internet is doing. I think you're trying desperately too hard to appear not to be a racist, which is one symptom of P.C. that I thought we were over by now. No the reaction of the sponsors was concern about racial slurs by someone associated with them. No company can afford the negative PR of being associated with racism. Go write to the sponsors and tell them you support racist behaviour and see how far that gets you. How about you condemn people making racist comments instead of jumping through hoops criticising those who oppose it? The sponsors agree with my stance on racist comments and not yours. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21 st century where people of all races have to use the same entrances to buildings. You may find this an unwelcome development but you'll survive. Was that really their stance though? I mean, without a press release stating "Oh hey, we don't like people saying gook, we needed destiny gone!" I kinda get the feeling a lot of the opinions on just what went down and why are a little off. I mean in fairness I only read like 27 of the pages of this thread, I could have missed something. Did razer come in here and say they don't like players on teams they sponser using slurs? I don't honestly think Razer would even threaten to create an opinion and stance on this kind of thing at all. I think they may not like the usage of the words, but until it's brought to their attention they're happy to live and let live. They're sent a lot of mail talking about potential customers no longer being customers because of one player on one team and they're going to try and have their underlings fix it. They don't care why they're losing people, they just want it to stop. I guarantee you, if you have 1000 people write to Razer saying you'll no longer be their customer because you don't like their color scheme someone's shit is going to hit the fan. It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of return on investment. "Oh hey, the customers hate green! Design team! We need something new! Chop-chop!" We need to stop assuming that because we feel something is right, it is the universal correct stance. Until proven otherwise, business is business, and if you don't understand business don't assume you know why something happened.
That's awesome man! Let's look at what happened.
People who disliked Destiny's racism sent mail to the sponsors that they didn't like Destiny for being a bigot.
A short time later Destiny is let go from Quantic.
Now, I know the correlation does not equate to causation, so let's go further.
Destiny makes a non-apology specifically related to the mail sent to Razer.
Quantic whines that fans shouldn't send mail to Razer.
Conclusion?
Mail was sent in that either caused razer to get upset or cause quantic to get worried that Razer would be upset.
Either Razer hates bigots, or Quantic hates bigots.
Conclusion?
Destiny supporters should be upset at Razer and Quantic for hating Bigots instead of whining about it on TL.
Just send mail folks, do the direct thing and talk to the person in charge, not fanboys on a forum website.
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EPT
