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On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally.
He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry.
For example.
If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was.
In other words, it was bigotry.
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Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic.
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On May 08 2012 09:36 Bulldog654 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI Really now? One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. The other side saw that actions on the internet had repercussions and whined on TL. Hmm.... who was more mature? No, one side saw someone say a mean word that didn't hurt anyone (you know, because its a word typed on a screen,) and attacked that persons ability to make money, heedless of the possible collateral damage. The other side saw bigots (look up the word) attempting to force someone to adhere to their own personal beliefs and protested this on TL I think it should be pretty clear who was more mature.
If not using racist language is a personal belief I'm disappointed... is not murdering people a personal belief too?
EDIT: Okay obviously that is an exaggeration, but how is racist language a personal belief? We're not talking about religion here....
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On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry.
I am not a Destiny fan. I have never opened his stream before in my life.
"He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry." This is wrong on logical grounds. If someone calls someone else a gook, it could be an Asian person calling a white person a gook, for all you know, and you couldn't be bigoted against your own race. That's self-loathing, which is different.
Your example is disanalogous because using an offensive word, even in a serious manner (not really applicable here), doesn't stack up against the very real action of abusing someone's body.
I know there are strong arguments for the other side, but I don't think you're articulating any of them.
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On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry.
this is so dumb and illogical it hurts my head
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On May 08 2012 09:36 Bulldog654 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI Really now? One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. The other side saw that actions on the internet had repercussions and whined on TL. Hmm.... who was more mature? No, one side saw someone say a mean word that didn't hurt anyone (you know, because its a word typed on a screen,) and attacked that persons ability to make money, heedless of the possible collateral damage. The other side saw bigots (look up the word) attempting to force someone to adhere to their own personal beliefs and protested this on TL I think it should be pretty clear who was more mature.
Hmm...
Was mass mail sent to Destiny asking him to change his ways? Oh that's right, no. Destiny wasn't asked to change, a complaint was made to his sponsor showcasing a dislike of the product available.
Did Destiny use a racial slur? Yes.
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On May 08 2012 09:48 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry. I am not a Destiny fan. I have never opened his stream before in my life. "He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry." This is wrong on logical grounds. If someone calls someone else a gook, it could be an Asian person calling a white person a gook, for all you know, and you couldn't be bigoted against your own race. That's self-loathing, which is different. Your example is disanalogous because using an offensive word, even in a serious manner (not really applicable here), doesn't stack up against the very real action of abusing someone's body. I know there are strong arguments for the other side, but I don't think you're articulating any of them.
It doesn't matter what race either of them is. The fact is that "gook" is considered an insult. The understanding is that being called a "gook" is insulting - essentially being a certain race already makes you inferior (similar to being called a nigger or a jew). It's insulting to all people of that race because they're being demeaned.
He may not have articulated it well but I believe he meant it is bigotry because it is bigoted against Korean/Vietnamese people, not necessarily the individual Destiny is speaking to.
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On May 08 2012 09:50 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:36 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI Really now? One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. The other side saw that actions on the internet had repercussions and whined on TL. Hmm.... who was more mature? No, one side saw someone say a mean word that didn't hurt anyone (you know, because its a word typed on a screen,) and attacked that persons ability to make money, heedless of the possible collateral damage. The other side saw bigots (look up the word) attempting to force someone to adhere to their own personal beliefs and protested this on TL I think it should be pretty clear who was more mature. Hmm... Was mass mail sent to Destiny asking him to change his ways? Oh that's right, no. Destiny wasn't asked to change, a complaint was made to his sponsor showcasing a dislike of the product available. Did Destiny use a racial slur? Yes.
Destiny was asked to change his ways. Instead we got some ridiculous memes and a defense of his actions. Go back to the original thread to see Destiny's responses - they were rude.
If he had apologized I would've been okay with it - people make mistakes all the time. Posting a meme of Spiderman talking about "raining fucks" isn't the way to make amends.
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On May 08 2012 09:48 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry. I am not a Destiny fan. I have never opened his stream before in my life. "He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry." This is wrong on logical grounds. If someone calls someone else a gook, it could be an Asian person calling a white person a gook, for all you know, and you couldn't be bigoted against your own race. That's self-loathing, which is different. Your example is disanalogous because using an offensive word, even in a serious manner (not really applicable here), doesn't stack up against the very real action of abusing someone's body. I know there are strong arguments for the other side, but I don't think you're articulating any of them.
How is it dis-analogues?
A girl doesn't need to be dressed conservatively in order for rape to be rape.
A man doesn't need to be enslaved in order for bigotry to be bigotry.
This isn't logic-fu it is common sense.
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On May 08 2012 09:51 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:48 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry. I am not a Destiny fan. I have never opened his stream before in my life. "He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry." This is wrong on logical grounds. If someone calls someone else a gook, it could be an Asian person calling a white person a gook, for all you know, and you couldn't be bigoted against your own race. That's self-loathing, which is different. Your example is disanalogous because using an offensive word, even in a serious manner (not really applicable here), doesn't stack up against the very real action of abusing someone's body. I know there are strong arguments for the other side, but I don't think you're articulating any of them. It doesn't matter what race either of them is. The fact is that "gook" is considered an insult. The understanding is that being called a "gook" is insulting - essentially being a certain race already makes you inferior (similar to being called a nigger or a jew). It's insulting to all people of that race because they're being demeaned. He may not have articulated it well but I believe he meant it is bigotry because it is bigoted against Korean/Vietnamese people, not necessarily the individual Destiny is speaking to.
You can use the same words endearingly, so I don't think it's a stretch to divorce the prejudice in the word from the insulting/offensive sense. I don't think it makes sense to say using a word is insulting to an entire race, particularly when almost all of them didn't hear you use the word, and for all we know you weren't using it in an insulting sense.
On May 08 2012 09:55 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:48 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry. I am not a Destiny fan. I have never opened his stream before in my life. "He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry." This is wrong on logical grounds. If someone calls someone else a gook, it could be an Asian person calling a white person a gook, for all you know, and you couldn't be bigoted against your own race. That's self-loathing, which is different. Your example is disanalogous because using an offensive word, even in a serious manner (not really applicable here), doesn't stack up against the very real action of abusing someone's body. I know there are strong arguments for the other side, but I don't think you're articulating any of them. How is it dis-analogues? A girl doesn't need to be dressed conservatively in order for rape to be rape. A man doesn't need to be enslaved in order for bigotry to be bigotry. This isn't logic-fu it is common sense.
I don't know why slavery would be relevant to the prejudiced sense of gook. I don't disagree with either of your points. But what you said originally is essentially "bigotry, I know it when I see it." I would allow for the possibility that your bigot detector sometimes gives off false positives and false negatives.
On May 08 2012 09:51 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:48 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:38 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:35 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 09:32 lorkac wrote:On May 08 2012 09:20 askTeivospy wrote:On May 08 2012 09:15 lorkac wrote:
Players words should not be policed.
People's letters should not be policed.
There was not a horde of fanmail sent to destiny asking him to stop talking--it was mail sent to a sponsor about disliking a product. Destiny fanboys should stop being upset that letters were not sent to destiny. It wouldnt have mattered if he did or did not say racist things--people were unhappy with the product and so they sent in their complaints. No different from a defective mouse or a dead monitor pixel.
Customers are allowed to have opinions much like destiny is allowed to be racist. Destiny fanboys takes things so personal, they should learn not to be so easily insulted on the Internet. people on both sides of the issue are easily insulted FYI One side saw someone who was being bigoted and asked for him to be removed--for bigotry. Calling BM bigotry belittles actual injustice in the world. I won't go into how loaded the rest of your post is, as many people have already posted about why hair-trigger emailing a team's sponsors just because some player has a thread on the top of Reddit or TL is not the way to approach a situation rationally. He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry. Just because you like him doesn't stop it being bigotry. For example. If a girl wore a skimpy dress and then got raped--it is still rape. She wasn't asking for it, she didn't get what was coming to her, she was raped. When Destiny calls someone a gook, it is bigoted no matter how skimpy the other guy's dress was. In other words, it was bigotry. I am not a Destiny fan. I have never opened his stream before in my life. "He called someone a gook. Which is bigotry." This is wrong on logical grounds. If someone calls someone else a gook, it could be an Asian person calling a white person a gook, for all you know, and you couldn't be bigoted against your own race. That's self-loathing, which is different. Your example is disanalogous because using an offensive word, even in a serious manner (not really applicable here), doesn't stack up against the very real action of abusing someone's body. I know there are strong arguments for the other side, but I don't think you're articulating any of them. It doesn't matter what race either of them is. The fact is that "gook" is considered an insult. The understanding is that being called a "gook" is insulting - essentially being a certain race already makes you inferior (similar to being called a nigger or a jew). It's insulting to all people of that race because they're being demeaned. He may not have articulated it well but I believe he meant it is bigotry because it is bigoted against Korean/Vietnamese people, not necessarily the individual Destiny is speaking to.
It doesn't matter what race either of them is, that's true, but not because it's always an insulting sense of the word. You are suggesting that when an Asian person uses the word (yes, such people exist) to refer to, say, Innuits, he is stupid enough to be insulting himself and his entire race. Or that he couldn't use the word in an endearing way to someone of any race. Or that he's not just shooting the shit while waiting for a bus.
This leaves the situation where the speaker is of any race but the race targeted by the insulting sense, and the person being referred to is of the target race. Then maybe in this situation, the word is always used in an insulting/bigoted sense? To this I can only answer, are you really telling me I can't make a cultural bridge with my friend when we call each other the foulest names reserved for each other's race?
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If someone repeatedly (more than once) uses racial/homophobic(which you seemed to fail to mention) slurs, they ought to be removed from the head of the community for a lengthy period of time, until they've proven they're better than that. Additionally, destiny has used homophobic slurs for as long as I can remember (the last time I watched his stream was in the summer, when he called an opponent a f*g), and I remember Orb coming up with several ridiculous lies about what happened, showing he does't have any responsibility whatsoever. As for Naniwa, his probe rush showed that he only cared about one thing, money; he showed no concern for the fans, he showed none for the sponsors, he showed none for having fun and improving. Do I think this is worthy of getting kicked OUT of code S? I don't. But he was given that spot in the hope he would contribute to the foreigners in the league, and he showed that there were much better people for that spot, ones who cared more about these things. As for the punishments, I personally think that they should be handed out by the team. However, if the team shows that they won't punish the player, then it is the community's job to show this team that we won't allow that kind of behavior, and force the team to take the action they should've taken on their own.
TL:DR They should be punished for their mistakes (which are worse than you let on) by whomever it takes.
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This place is full of fucking crybabies. You kids should be ashamed of yourselves. You call me a name? I don't go to your employer to tell on you, I tell you to eat a bag of dicks and go on with my day.
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You can use the same words endearingly, so I don't think it's a stretch to divorce the prejudice in the word from the insulting/offensive sense. I don't think it makes sense to say using a word is insulting to an entire race, particularly when almost all of them didn't hear you use the word, and for all we know you weren't using it in an insulting sense.
People who think like this are a huge problem. Was it used endearingly (Also, can it be used as such?), NO! The prejudice is inherent in the word, and it's negative connotation was the reason for it being said. A word like that should be insulting to anyone, of that race or not, regardless of if they hear it. A racist word is racist, and if you hear it you should be as offended as if it were said about you, because it was said about someone. Saying "the word isn't about me, I shouldn't be offended" is like saying "he isn't stabbing me, I shouldn't be concerned"
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On May 08 2012 10:14 chadissilent wrote:
This place is full of fucking crybabies. You kids should be ashamed of yourselves. You call me a name? I don't go to your employer to tell on you, I tell you to eat a bag of dicks and go on with my day.
(that's certainly a mature way to handle things[sarcasm])
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On May 08 2012 10:18 DarkInfinity wrote:Show nested quote +You can use the same words endearingly, so I don't think it's a stretch to divorce the prejudice in the word from the insulting/offensive sense. I don't think it makes sense to say using a word is insulting to an entire race, particularly when almost all of them didn't hear you use the word, and for all we know you weren't using it in an insulting sense. People who think like this are a huge problem. Was it used endearingly (Also, can it be used as such?), NO! The prejudice is inherent in the word, and it's negative connotation was the reason for it being said. A word like that should be insulting to anyone, of that race or not, regardless of if they hear it. A racist word is racist, and if you hear it you should be as offended as if it were said about you, because it was said about someone. Saying "the word isn't about me, I shouldn't be offended" is like saying "he isn't stabbing me, I shouldn't be concerned"
English doesn't operate by the French system of a prescriptive dictionary. You cannot mandate the definition of a word just because you want it to have that definition. I am not insulted or even offended just because someone uses a word that has one sense that is bigoted towards my race. When I use a word that has a sense that is bigoted against my own race, I am really not insulting myself. I could insult someone with semicolons and indefinite articles if I wanted to do that, I don't need to turn to words that have histories partially rooted in prejudice for that.
I can use an insult in an endearing sense just because I used it in that sense. It's like calling your friend a dumb shit, it doesn't break down when you use a taboo racial slur. Those can be even more endearing.
How can a word be insulting to you that you didn't hear? What are you talking about? Am I supposed to be offended that there are words fouler than anything man has ever spoken just because they're sitting somewhere in the ether, even though I didn't hear them?
A prejudice cannot be inherent in a word the same as a lack of prejudice can't be inherent in a word. Let's accept that you can be bigoted with words that aren't racial slurs. Now let's note that many words, like nigger, originally had no racist connotation. A word can't be tainted and be off-limits forever just because some people thought it was racist once.
The argument is that the connotation of the word has somehow become its denotation, and despite being false, it's not even true that denotations are fixed.
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On May 08 2012 10:27 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:18 DarkInfinity wrote:You can use the same words endearingly, so I don't think it's a stretch to divorce the prejudice in the word from the insulting/offensive sense. I don't think it makes sense to say using a word is insulting to an entire race, particularly when almost all of them didn't hear you use the word, and for all we know you weren't using it in an insulting sense. People who think like this are a huge problem. Was it used endearingly (Also, can it be used as such?), NO! The prejudice is inherent in the word, and it's negative connotation was the reason for it being said. A word like that should be insulting to anyone, of that race or not, regardless of if they hear it. A racist word is racist, and if you hear it you should be as offended as if it were said about you, because it was said about someone. Saying "the word isn't about me, I shouldn't be offended" is like saying "he isn't stabbing me, I shouldn't be concerned" English doesn't operate by the French system of a prescriptive dictionary. You cannot mandate the definition of a word just because you want it to have that definition. I am not insulted or even offended just because someone uses a word that has one sense that is bigoted towards my race. When I use a word that has a sense that is bigoted against my own race, I am really not insulting myself. I could insult someone with semicolons and indefinite articles if I wanted to do that, I don't need to turn to words that have histories partially rooted in prejudice for that. I can use an insult in an endearing sense just because I used it in that sense. It's like calling your friend a dumb shit, it doesn't break down when you use a taboo racial slur. Those can be even more endearing. How can a word be insulting to you that you didn't hear? What are you talking about? Am I supposed to be offended that there are words fouler than anything man has ever spoken just because they're sitting somewhere in the ether, even though I didn't hear them?
So words in English have no meaning? I can say "I'm thirsty" by saying "hello, I'd like to buy a dog for a remote control" to a complete stranger on the internet and he'll get what I'm saying? I don't want any words to have a racist definition, but they do, and that's a part of this language. The thing about bigoted words is that they're not personal, they are against everyone of that race, regardless of who they are. And there's a big difference between jokingly calling your friend a "dumb s***" and calling a complete stranger on the internet, one whom you're angry at, a n***** or something like that. And what I meant about words you don't hear is that when someone says something racist, it would be offensive to everyone of that race, so it should be said at all.
A connotation is part of the word when it is used at this time and place. N***** didn't always have as bad a connotation, but now it does, and it doesn't mean what it meant 200 years ago, it means what it means to the person hearing it.
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On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic.
Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it".
We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable.
If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad.
You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening.
And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined.
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On May 08 2012 10:40 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:39 revel8 wrote:
Sad to see racist language still being defended by posters in this thread. They even pretend that those who object to racist language are the bigots. Must be the kkk demographic. Sad to see that so many people still don't get the point. We're not saying "racist language isn't such a big deal, just man up and ignore it". We're saying it's not your fucking job to be the internet morality police. It is not your place to demand that people clean up their language. It is not your place to punish those whose actions fall outside of what you consider to be acceptable. If you emailed Razer to complain, you are no different than Christian groups complaining about the TV show Glee because it promotes acceptance of gay people, or Muslims demanding that newspapers not print a cartoon of Muhammad. You don't get to demand that your moral code is followed by everyone else, under threat of whatever punishment you are able to come up with. That is a fucked up situation to occur and I will always stand against it. Especially when it will have the side effect of driving sponsors away from E-sports if it keeps happening. And if you read this post and think that my message is "Chocobo is someone who thinks it's ok to call people niggers and gooks" then you need to get your head examined.
This is my last comment on this post.
There are some things that are certainly wrong. Murder is wrong. If there was a known murderer on an SCII team, and they lived in a place where it was legal, I hope we all would demand that he is removed from that team. I'm not saying that many other things have an absolute right/wrong to them, but we get to choose the people who represent this community, and we can only do that based on our own morals, which are all based on the absolute truth of equality by way of birth.
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On May 08 2012 01:06 treekiller wrote:
The only currency that has any value online seems to be outrage. Show me one community that has thrived under this influence. People may point to the so-called "moral fags" at 4chan an Annonymous, but they are also known as the Internet Hate Machine. There are held together by common interests, starting with Anime and now almost everything now.
This things might be good for the video game industry, but thats not the same as E-Sports. More corporate control of video games means ultimately more dumbing down. The best E-Sporst titles occurred by the community taking a game out of what some company intended it to be. CS 1.6 came from essentially nothing, The original game was not intended to be that hard at all. Do you really think Blizzard intended BW to be the hardest game of all time? DotA was a salvage of War3, a mediocre game.
We should be discussing the merits of the game, and the players not the manufactured drama. This is the cable-news-ification, the reality-tv-ization of media gets in the way of interesting content.
Are you actually saying that using the word Nigger on your stream makes you interesting? LOL pleeez. All these people bemoaning poor Destiny or poor Orb having sponsors informed about what they do on a public stream are out of touch with reality. If I watch a Destiny stream I watch commercials in order to see his content. As far as I'm concerned that's a relationship between a customer and a service provider. When the service provider starts using Nigger habitually on his stream I have every right to inform the companies whose commercials I'm watching just what they are endorsing. It's just business. Oh, by the way, I have no doubt that SC2 will be just as hard and badass a game a s BW ever was. There are just to many people who want that and to much money to be made for there to be any other outcome.
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