EPTThey were obviously still in negotiations, first you give an offer and then you give the conditions, MystresS couldn't have imagined they would be given a salary without meeting certain conditions surely.
Accusations against Eclypsia - Page 8
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
They were obviously still in negotiations, first you give an offer and then you give the conditions, MystresS couldn't have imagined they would be given a salary without meeting certain conditions surely. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
and i was right, "verbal agreement", lol and i would expect the "esports" team to be the one offering a written contract if they were at all competent and trying to look professional and not just agreeing to a verbal contract. regardless of what was agreed to, this already makes them look bad. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:42 Redox wrote: This 10000 times. Now if Eclypsia suddenly had come up with strange conditions after signing the players, it would have been a problem. But telling them tese conditions before signing them, how is that even an issue? Just sad how easily this community jumps on every hate bandwagon out there. Bullshit. It's 100% unprofessional to put an offer on the table and then start informing the second party that the offer was not serious or incomplete. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped. Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. | ||
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Mallidon
Scotland557 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote: Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid? If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. Edit On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped. Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke. | ||
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windzor
Denmark1013 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:46 nkr wrote: Whether it's reasonable or not is not the question, and doesn't actually matter in this case. Eclypsia are being accused of mistreating someone. Which hasn't happened. If they feel it was unreasonable then just say no to the contract offer. Yes they didn't have a contract, but eC already announced them as players on their homepage. How am you not a part of the team then? You don't have a signed paper no, but they clearly see you as "signed" and you agreed to join, but the terms keep changing to the worse? 5k viewer is something that i've only seen 2 dota2 players ever reach and their personal streams. And it's not something which happens everyday. I do believe the players are at fault for jumping the ship too fast from quantic, but I do still believe eC is doing something shady. | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:42 Redox wrote: This 10000 times. Now if Eclypsia suddenly had come up with strange conditions after signing the players, it would have been a problem. But telling them tese conditions before signing them, how is that even an issue? Just sad how easily this community jumps on every hate bandwagon out there. Lol seriously guys? "Yeah we will give you this salary and you can make all the profits from your stream." "Oh wait we have no money to pay you and since your not generating 5000 viewers (which is virtually impossible for such a not known team and even well known good players like ogsvines only gets like 2K) then are agreements broken. Also all the tournaments we had setup where you could earn prize money are cancelled." You two, "wow why is everyone on the hate wagon. They haven't done anything wrong..." One of you even said "They didn't do anything wrong they just setup conditions for their team they couldn't meet." It's more like, they setup conditions they speculated they could meet with publicity they hoped to get from their players. And they can't. I don't know how you could say they've done nothing wrong and the other dude "this 10000 times." they did TONS of stuff wrong. I don't know how you could say that setting up an agreement with your team members that you can't fulfill isnt something wrong. Also your automatically assuming (this is to the 2nd quoted person.) that Eclypsia is the one being totally truthful and denying the possibility that the guy was the one being truthful. I'm leaning more towards the guy being truthful because if he's at all intelligent then he wouldn't agree to "5000 viewers or no deal" considering how unlikely that is to do. On top of Eclypsia's rebuttal saying it was a "verbal agreement." which is impossible to prove even if the player denies it. | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
They seem to have promised all their players pretty high salaries, but the team doesn't have any sponsors at all and it's completely unknown where their money is coming from or if they even have the money. It sounds like an 'organization' that is taking immense risks and if they don't work out they will just disband as quick as they came. But let's say there is some rich guy behind Eclypsia which is the only way for them to make such promises, otherwise it would mean the organization actually has no money. That would mean that when this guy gets bored with the team or there are fights within the management the team also just disbands since they don't have any sponsors. This can't go well and I would advice any player to not sign a contract with them. | ||
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
http://www.eclypsia.com/en/news-207.html | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:46 ComusLoM wrote: This to me just seems like MystresS didn't like the conditions that were put forward and decided to get pissy and create a lot of fake drama. Complete non-issue. They were obviously still in negotiations, first you give an offer and then you give the conditions, MystresS couldn't have imagined they would be given a salary without meeting certain conditions surely. That's not the case at all. They got an amazing deal from Eclypsia, and dropped their team for it pretty much. They were announced to be joining, though no contract had been signed, it seemed like an airtight deal. Then Eclypsia goes "oh wait guys that wasn't yoooour deal, that was the one we were gonna offer Na'Vi, here, this gimped version was for you". It's like telling someone you'll hire them to sing at your bar, full tips, $30/hour wage, with accommodation, they just need to move states though you'll pay for their ticket, and then when they arrive, you tell them that you get a large portion of their tips (all if they don't get enough), their wage has been halved, there's no accommodation, and the ticket was one way. Essentially that lady from Pluto Nash. This entire post was made so I could reference that movie. + Show Spoiler + I fucking love Pluto Nash, bad as it is | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:54 Berailfor wrote: Lol seriously guys? "Yeah we will give you this salary and you can make all the profits from your stream." "Oh wait we have no money to pay you and since your not generating 5000 viewers (which is virtually impossible for such a not known team and even well known good players like ogsvines only gets like 2K) then are agreements broken. Also all the tournaments we had setup where you could earn prize money are cancelled." You two, "wow why is everyone on the hate wagon. They haven't done anything wrong..." One of you even said "They didn't do anything wrong they just setup conditions for their team they couldn't meet." It's more like, they setup conditions they speculated they could meet with publicity they hoped to get from their players. And they can't. I don't know how you could say they've done nothing wrong and the other dude "this 10000 times." they did TONS of stuff wrong. I don't know how you could say that setting up an agreement with your team members that you can't fulfill isnt something wrong. Also your automatically assuming (this is to the 2nd quoted person.) that Eclypsia is the one being totally truthful and denying the possibility that the guy was the one being truthful. I'm leaning more towards the guy being truthful because if he's at all intelligent then he wouldn't agree to "5000 viewers or no deal" considering how unlikely that is to do. On top of Eclypsia's rebuttal saying it was a "verbal agreement." which is impossible to prove even if the player denies it. Well you're automatically assuming that the one accusing eclypsia is being truthful. I guess we don't know. I can see this dota2 team agreeing to join eclypsia before they actually read the contracts, and when they did and realized they wouldn't meet the demands, they started crying. Seeing as how they left a perfectly good organisation and all. | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
Stipulating a viewer count as a conditional salary is worse than when game publishers give devs less money if they don't meet a metacritic score, just absolutely stupid and unprofessional. Honestly I would discredit them as a team for the sole fact that they thought it was a good idea. The way to do it is contracting someone because you know they are a popular streamer, you can't force someone to become a popular streamer | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped. Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. don't support them then, you don't have to actively go after them. being a part of the e-sports community shouldn't mean you get a free tote bag with a pitchfork in it and that pitchfork has to be pulled out every time you don't like something i thought people complaining about the grab the pitchforks mentality were being a little overdramatic when it was brought up during the destiny drama but now i'm not so sure. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote: And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke. Not all April Fool's jokes are made equal. Jokes in bad taste are PR suicide. I'll bring up my previous post because it's relevant to this part of the discussion. On May 04 2012 03:30 Heh_ wrote: Jokes aren't simply jokes. Jokes have to be in good taste and people should be easily able to see the punchline. Some examples of April Fool's jokes on TL: Bomber going to the military. It generated a lot of discussion, but it wasn't malicious in any regard. Another example: some competition banning Korean players. Now that's sufficiently ridiculous that most people would realize that it's a joke. Now, the "joke" that Eclypsia made was terrible. Not paying salaries is a serious offense, and one that some people might empathize to. Furthermore, Eclypsia is a new team. Bad publicity is the worst possible thing that an organization can do if it's trying to get recognized. Related example: would you walk into the middle of a black neighborhood and make racist jokes? | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote: If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. Edit And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke. Your absolutely right. If it was a contract they signed about the 5000 viewers then so be it. The guy was stupid for signing a contract that he didn't get paid when he didn't generate 5000 viewers (which is 100% TOTALLY unreasonable). But that isn't what happened. That was not in the contract. If it was then Eclypsia wouldn't have claimed this as a "verbal agreement" and the other guy wouldn't be claiming that this was never specified. I'm not 100% saying Eclyspia DIDN'T specify this. But your 100% saying they DID. Which is just as bad. And giving a team with a real bad track record the benefit of the doubt. Like I stated in my previous post. I think that Eclypsia is LYING. Why you ask? Because would you ever agree to "you won't get paid unless you generate 5K viewers?" of course not.. Because if your at all intelligent then you'd know that going to be impossible for someone who isn't well known. So if the guy who joined is AT ALL intelligent he wouldn't have agreed to that. I think Eclyspia is not only lying, but taking advantage of the fact that they can recruit players who are semi-desperate for a team. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote: If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. | ||
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Fueled
United States1610 Posts
edit: written contract agreement* | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote: And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. | ||
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