EPT
)Observer build-time decrease seems completely unnecessary to me, since there is some macro ability by Protoss... argh, can't recall it's name... AH - chronoboost?!
Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 40
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Creager
Germany1961 Posts
)Observer build-time decrease seems completely unnecessary to me, since there is some macro ability by Protoss... argh, can't recall it's name... AH - chronoboost?! | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:24 Lovely_US wrote: 2 tumors is not enough. Not even close... So what happens when the Terran scans and takes out the 2 active tumors? Oh no more creep spread? The third queen is still necessary. Just early game you had to choose between a tumor or an inject, and now you don't have to. Thats it... You neglect the timing. You could make a tumor instead of the first inject, but the cost was great. The benefit was that you could (on Antiga) bring the creep down the ramp into the open territory where hellions could be surrounded. You forced a scan out of the terran, hurting him in a similar way like your lack of 4 early larvae hurts. Now you either don't have to make the sacrifice and still get the reward and still you can place your spine(s) where they are most effective and can easily take your 3rd. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:29 Creager wrote: although I'm still quite unfamiliar with Zerg macro, I'm worried about the tendency of favoring the macro capabilites of Zerg even more... I also have in mind that especially in lower leagues like gold/plat/dia early pushes by Zerg could become even stronger since there is just more stuff you can have at an earlier timing (or don't you even get a queen out for 2 base attacks?! Sorry, as I stated, just rolling Terran over here so I'm not that much into Zerg, yet )Observer build-time decrease seems completely unnecessary to me, since there is some macro ability by Protoss... argh, can't recall it's name... AH - chronoboost?! These boosts don't change the macro capabilities of Zerg at all. No one injects perfectly. The main boost from the energy is the creep spread. | ||
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria925 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:28 Incognoto wrote: There are two things that are needed. First off, these balance changes should be made for every ladder map. Balance differs for every map and it's not like it's a hard thing to pull off. But actually releasing a custom map with balance changes for the community to examine is perhaps one of the smartest things Blizzard has done up to date. Secondly, we need professional players to give their opinion on the new balance. Especially players like TLO or Kiwikaki, who have an eye for gimmicky yet effective tactics/strategies. These pro players should give their opinion to the community, but if Blizzard is really smart, they'll set up a private forum so that pros can discuss balance between themselves without having lesser players (sorry bros, but that's how it is) intervene. This was done for Aoe3, TAD. When ES disbanded and RE was created (google it), the community almost died because of the terrible state of the game at the time. There were two civs who were 2 good notches above every other civ. RTSS (google it) invited a select group of top players to discuss balance and make a custom-made fanpatch. The fanpatch first fixed the two best civs with good nerfs. The top players then worked on a second fanpatch that balanced the game to a level never seen before. It was astounding. The fanpatch prolonged Aoe3's lifespan for about a year. If anything, this just proves how valuable top players working on balance can be. If Blizzard realizes this and starts working with actual pros, the game could get a lot of design flaws fixed really well. The changes proposed here are a step in the right direction. I hope the trend continues. Sources: http://rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?portal=TAD&showtopic=117569 http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-Asian-Dynasties/showtopic=136145 Kiwikaki already commented, several times. Was around pages ~11-20. | ||
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Kaleidos
Italy172 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:04 Dvriel wrote: U dont need early Queen for only creep with this change,because u ll have two active tumors creating it,so 150 mins saved for u,and surely spent in drones.Anyway i dont think u said it seriously... I think he was serious. ZvT you make those 1-2 extra queens to better sim city vs hellions, shutting down early drop pushes, banshees. | ||
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Jochan
Poland1730 Posts
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:04 Dvriel wrote: U dont need early Queen for only creep with this change,because u ll have two active tumors creating it,so 150 mins saved for u,and surely spent in drones.Anyway i dont think u said it seriously... gasless 4x queen openers are gonna be sick as fuck now. with 2 extra queens with instantly available transfuses, you'll be able to hold most if not all early pressure with just 1-2 spines... and midgame all ins with a few more spines and lings. the sheer amount of creep spread along with transfusions is gonna make Z more or less impervious to early pressure openers like hellions, banshees, 3rax marine etc. | ||
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Derrida
2885 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:33 onPHYRE wrote: Kiwikaki already commented, several times. Was around pages ~11-20. I think you are mistaking KawaiiRice for Kiwikaki  | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On May 03 2012 19:31 Incognoto wrote: These boosts don't change the macro capabilities of Zerg at all. No one injects perfectly. The main boost from the energy is the creep spread. I think it would change if you go expand first then pool. You make 1 queen and you can inject both hatches. | ||
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Tuthur
France985 Posts
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BossGL
Philippines9 Posts
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Genetic
Canada84 Posts
OL Speed Change = Good Queen Energy = LOL broken Observer Build Time = Unnecessary and as a bias Terran bothersome TheNewblar | ||
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careohx
263 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
Double energy on the queen seems a bit much, it's going to make fast third ZvP even more crazy strong as you can catch up on injects and balance drone minerals really easily with the freeby injects. Faster obs, erm, not seen a need but don't see a harm, guess it helps shut down banshee 111's a little easier. Pro terrans are scanning obs down more but I think the problems not so much time to make the obs as that the robos already busy making other stuff. Hence partings HT based PvT where all the robo does is observers being fine with it. | ||
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j1nzo
Germany367 Posts
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BlueEagle
United Kingdom75 Posts
On May 03 2012 20:00 careohx wrote: Guys get ready for Stephano 12 mins full map creepspread. xD Pfft, a guy called Fitzyhere does that anyway, that bastard's going to have the map purple before the other guy's expanded Overlord speed is pretty useful, not sure about the Queen change, could be useful for defending with spines, queens and transfuses saving larvae for drones. Observer change... could make cloak banshee play completely useless now. Might help Protoss not be punished as bad if the Zerg is doing the 12min max thing and they get an observer out first, and will help scout allins I guess. Not sure, I'm not great at Protoss stuff. | ||
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Antares_
Poland269 Posts
Now back to the thread: Overlord - It's ok, not so necessary, but might be helpful. Especially with current PvZ metagame where Protoss can do thousands of variations of FFE. Observer - No more cloak banshee opening unless you scout 4gate. Early and mid-game pushes far less efficient = Protoss can easier be safe and get to the late game where they roflstomp Terran or Zerg easily. Queen Energy - TLO will win Code S next season According to TLPD Winrate Charts April, Zerg already has ~51% win ratio in TvZ internationally and 56% in Korea. Now it might jump even to 60%... | ||
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Bidj
France98 Posts
On May 03 2012 20:09 BlueEagle wrote: Pfft, a guy called Fitzyhere does that anyway, that bastard's going to have the map purple before the other guy's expanded Overlord speed is pretty useful, not sure about the Queen change, could be useful for defending with spines, queens and transfuses saving larvae for drones. Observer change... could make cloak banshee play completely useless now. Might help Protoss not be punished as bad if the Zerg is doing the 12min max thing and they get an observer out first, and will help scout allins I guess. Not sure, I'm not great at Protoss stuff. Yeah, Fitzyhere style was already giving me nighmares... but now... we are doomed ! Ruuuun (or, as a lot of people have suggested, make transfuse 75 energy) | ||
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zyce
United States649 Posts
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
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