Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
it's not like there is some magical thing about bw progamers that make them better. It's that they have the practice regiment and correct mentalities to improve/perfect play. All progamers play 8-12 hours a day, but some probably "grind" out 4 hours of it and are only able to maximally focus for 4-8 hours, while some focus, learn, and perfect for all 12 hours of practice. Doesn't even have to be conscious, just it'd hard to play 12 hours a day of something and keep your focus on it the entire time.
Earlier on in sc2 people lacked fundamental mechanics, but since that time it's cleaned up quite a bit.
It's not like any BW progamer is going to come in and be "hey look at me control 40 marines better than an sc2 korean pro!" because that's not going to happen because of the way the game works (elaborated more below). The main thing BW pros can really bring is consistency and decision making (as well as some of the best coaching staffs/players in the world to analyze play).
And by all means sc2 is easier mechanically and is not any more strategic, but just because it's easier doesn't mean it doesn't still have a pretty high skill cap. SC2 is probably more akin to some other really fast games where at the highest level of play it's about playing well in an extremely small time window (since sc2 is more ball vs ball and armies die faster, the most important thing is to win that engagement). By fast I mean like some FPS or whatever where you shoot and die really fast--they'll have really high skill cap but what determines the skill cap is a much smaller time window than BW.
On strategy note, I as a bw fan, would say it's less strategic in general, as most of bw is about map positioning while game design of sc2 encourages "ball vs ball" unit compositions with the creep mechanic [zerg expands closeby as opposed to far away and defends creep], warp ins making expanding far away difficult, protoss encouraged to go for colossus or templar/archon death ball, etc. Sc2 is more about coming out on top in 1 big fight and preparing for the big fight rather than having true map awareness/dominance/multitask that BW is about. It's a totally different game.
One would think micro would be elevated in sc2 because of how fast things are (as one could say in a mechanically demanding FPS game with low life points) but the unit clumping and game engine makes the micro be more of a "1a" than anything else and limit micro from being top tier for humans (look at the sc2 ai that can micro perfectly). At the very least micro isn't any more important in sc2 than in sc1, yet most of the mechanics for having map control/awareness/multitask is removed (and that is what sc:bw progamers are good at).
Maybe I'll be proven wrong as time passes on these points, but macro in sc2 is certainly easier and the game isn't more strategic nor microable. Most of the mechanics of bw map positioning (high ground, unit designs with lurkers, dark swarm, mines, tanks, etc) are removed. Sc2 doesn't offer a single thing better than sc:bw, except that zvz can be more diverse in unit compositions. Maybe PvP. Obviously tanks are there but it's generally different compared to sc:bw.
the bw gamers better at unit compositions/decision making will do better, compared to some bw players that rely on their multitask/mechanics, because that is mainly what sc2 is about
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Hot Bid will be on tonight to reveal some exclusive news on TSL4, and TeamLiquid EIC Waxangel and Torch of OGN, former GOM will be on to talk about the new deal between Kespa/OGN/Blizzard. Plus Naniwa losing to MVP, HotS at MLG Anaheim and more! Waxangel will also be on tonight live from Korea! Goes live in 20 minutes on http://www.Twitch.tv/OneMoreGameTV
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
You do realize that EVERY GSL champ was at one point atleast a BW semi-pro(Training in pro team houses etc.) So I don't know why people say BW pro's won't dominant... they already are.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
You do realize that EVERY GSL champ was at one point atleast a BW semi-pro(Training in pro team houses etc.) So I don't know why people say BW pro's won't dominant... they already are.
Except for Polt who is the odd one out as a former WC3 player. Otherwise, you are right in that all the other GSL champs are former BW pros or semi-pros, though I'm not too sure about Jjakji although it can be assumed that he played a good amount of BW in the past.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
You do realize that EVERY GSL champ was at one point atleast a BW semi-pro(Training in pro team houses etc.) So I don't know why people say BW pro's won't dominant... they already are.
Except for Polt who is the odd one out as a former WC3 player. Otherwise, you are right in that all the other GSL champs are former BW pros or semi-pros, though I'm not too sure about Jjakji although it can be assumed that he played a good amount of BW in the past.
Ahh I completely forgot about the super tournament! My bad T.T... Though I stand by my main point. 98% of the GSL champs were former BW pros xD
And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Is stephano bad because he hasnt won a GSL? How many times has he tried to win GSL? Im pretty sure hes beaten probably most of those BW players so far. Without playing BW much. if at all. (that i know of)
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
Because the sc2 forum is a whirlpool of ignorance?
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Thats my point. Its not BW that makes a player good. Its RTS experience. If someone who played AOE for 12 years 10 hours a day, then switched (give him a year to adjust) he could make a run as well. Saying "OMG BW PROS WILL DOMINATE 100% ONCE THIS HAPPENS" is just ridiculous to assume that BW = GOD PLAYER, when, stephano and naniwa show it doesnt.
Theyll have their ups and downs like everyone else. Boxer was the best in BW for a long time, now hes a consistant code A player. Just saying. (Not to knock on him, love him)
I don't get why ppl debating about BW Pros will be the best in SCII or not.
It's freaking decided already, we will see them in a month. Why don't we all w8 and see if the theory is true?
And I hope they will do well, especially TBLS, they are the best of best. I can't stand watching them lose to any of current SCII pros, even if those are the top of the world (in SCII) right now. It just doesn't feel right to me.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Thats my point. Its not BW that makes a player good. Its RTS experience. If someone who played AOE for 12 years 10 hours a day, then switched (give him a year to adjust) he could make a run as well. Saying "OMG BW PROS WILL DOMINATE 100% ONCE THIS HAPPENS" is just ridiculous to assume that BW = GOD PLAYER, when, stephano and naniwa show it doesnt.
Theyll have their ups and downs like everyone else. Boxer was the best in BW for a long time, now hes a consistant code A player. Just saying. (Not to knock on him, love him)
Even when other RTS games had pretty big competitive scenes it was quite accepted that the skill level of those games were no where near that of BW. Just playing BW doesn't make one amazing and not every pro is going to be better than current players, but it is safe bet when one is a part of the most competitive e-sport playing arguably the highest skill level game they will be good in SC2.
Boxer hasn't been good in BW since 2005 yet he has been top3 in international tournaments and has made Code S.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
EPT
