Translated excerpt from article thanks to Jin-Hong Cho:
Key organizations of eSports industry will come together to propose eSports vision through Starcraft 2.
On May 2, Blizzard, KeSPA, Gretech, and OnGameNet will have an unprecedented meeting to hold proclamation on Starcraft 2 eSports vision. This declaration, which would be held on COEX Intercontinental hotel harmony ballroom in Seoul, will have Paul Sams, COO of Blizzard Entertainment, Baek-Young-Jae, CEO of Blizzard Korea, Lee-Young-Hee, President of KeSPA, Bae-In-Sik, CEO of Gretech, and Hwang-Hyung-Jun, Chief Director of OnGameNet, as well as coaches and players of progaming teams.
Basically it's an announcement that Blizzard-Kespa-OGN-Gretech together are going to announce something related to Starcraft 2 on May 2nd KST. The article goes on to speculate that it's an announcement of Proleague starting in May.
Hearing this, and old broodwar gamers like flash and bisu considering races, and training for sc2. I'm looking forward to the announcement come may 2nd.
And to think, these entities were at each other's throats almost a year ago. Now, white doves and olive branches seem to grace what used to be a bloody feud.
I hate announcements of announcements, it makes you so eager for the news, then after the wait and hearing the news, you have to wait again for w/e the news is to be actually implemented. QQ
On April 26 2012 14:26 Fubi wrote: I hate announcements of announcements, it makes you so eager for the news, then after the wait and hearing the news, you have to wait again for w/e the news is to be actually implemented. QQ
Yeah, announcements of announcements suck but this is possibly huge news that will affect the future of SC2.
On April 26 2012 14:31 Ryo wrote: Possibly May 5th.
my reading of the article on gamechosun indicated that the 2nd half of this season was originally expected to be may 5th, but is now expected to be pushed back to mid-may due to the timing of this announcement. is that incorrect?
i read a long time ago that gomtv and ogn staff are indeed really familiar and friendly with each other. So i think a collaboration between those two with kespa/blizz backing is the best way to go for korean sc2. Way better than some sort of a rivalry. Really looking forward to the announcement
Yoshi Kirishima United States. April 26 2012 14:39. Posts 6906 PM Profile Blog Report Quote # Is it just me or did ESPORTS just get 9001 times more epic?
On April 26 2012 14:31 Ryo wrote: Possibly May 5th.
my reading of the article on gamechosun indicated that the 2nd half of this season was originally expected to be may 5th, but is now expected to be pushed back to mid-may due to the timing of this announcement. is that incorrect?
I can't access gamechosun articles so I haven't read that. But I said May 5th because fans have been talking about this date for some time now. I first heard about it in March, apparently some Team 8 fans were told this at one of the fan meetings or something along those lines. If it has been pushed back, then probably 12th May.
I'm not familar with the BW scene so much, but I don't like the idea of Kespa running things. Seems they restrict player freedom and team freedom. But I don't know.
On April 26 2012 14:45 ssg wrote: I'm not familar with the BW scene so much, but I don't like the idea of Kespa running things. Seems they restrict player freedom and team freedom. But I don't know.
On April 26 2012 14:45 ssg wrote: I'm not familar with the BW scene so much, but I don't like the idea of Kespa running things. Seems they restrict player freedom and team freedom. But I don't know.
Seems like it could be unfair for current SC2 teams to play in the OGN proleague; the current teams will naturally be better, having practiced the game far longer.
I hope it's set up initially where you'll have an OGN season run, then a GOM season, back and forth and then have some type of mixed finals between the two leagues for the end of the year. Perhaps the top 8 from OGN, top 8 from GOM.
On April 26 2012 14:45 ssg wrote: I'm not familar with the BW scene so much, but I don't like the idea of Kespa running things. Seems they restrict player freedom and team freedom. But I don't know.
On April 26 2012 14:45 ssg wrote: I'm not familar with the BW scene so much, but I don't like the idea of Kespa running things. Seems they restrict player freedom and team freedom. But I don't know.
I, for one, welcome our new OGN overlords. In all seriousness though, this is potentially the beginning of some huge and exciting changes. I hope that Blizzard and GOM will defend the openness of Starcraft 2 competition that so many have fought for...
On April 26 2012 14:45 ssg wrote: I'm not familar with the BW scene so much, but I don't like the idea of Kespa running things. Seems they restrict player freedom and team freedom. But I don't know.
yup. the Teams restrict their own freedom.
u realize Kespa = the teams?
That's what I mean. So the teams have to act in coordination with Kespa, or at least in order with one another.
On April 26 2012 14:24 rotinegg wrote: how are we gonna LR PL matches.. half in the BW section and half in the SC2 section?
If the SC2 teams are joining the league, there's no way it'll be half BW, half SC2.
They've been talking about half BW half SC2 forever. It's their primary idea. It always has been.
I know. But everytime they talked about it they never talked about the SC2 teams joining.
If the SC2 teams are indeed joining the new PL, then there's no way they'll play half BW, half SC2, because guess what? They have no BW players. What I'm saying is while the BW players have been practicing SC2 in anticipation for the switch, none of the SC2 teams have been practicing BW.
EDIT: Having said that, if the SC2 teams are NOT joining PL next season, then there's no issue I guess.
On April 26 2012 14:55 RaiKageRyu wrote: The only logical way forward. If GOM and Kespa did their seperate things it would only set Korea back a few years of eSports progress.
Could Kespa even do anything without GOM's permission? Don't they have some sort of exclusivity contract?
On April 26 2012 14:55 RaiKageRyu wrote: The only logical way forward. If GOM and Kespa did their seperate things it would only set Korea back a few years of eSports progress.
Could Kespa even do anything without GOM's permission? Don't they have some sort of exclusivity contract?
well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i think kespa understands foreigner scene is big now and gom understands that too. if theyre all to come to an agreement, I bet gom would stick their neck out for for the foreigner scene
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is what I fear happening. The popularity with SC2 seems to be with the foreign seen, but it seems like KESPA's involvement will kill that.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
Korean - non-Korean split is going to come crashing down. I really don't like that idea >.<
I guess this will be a popularity boost in Korea, though. If there's enough support, chances are, we'll receive more balanced patches/expansions in the future.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
Not sure if you read the article but...
“We wish to have everyone to gather, in order to make pledges to advance the culture of globally expanded eSports, which started in Korea with Starcraft.”
Sounds to me like they dont want to kill the global/foreign scene and keep esports only in korea. Also is this why MLG guys are in korea right now??? They are probably going to be at conference??
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is what I fear happening. The popularity with SC2 seems to be with the foreign seen, but it seems like KESPA's involvement will kill that.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
Thats not what I meant.
The biggest problem was with the entire license deal Kespa had going. This prevented a lot of talented players from playing in events. Because they had to go through a Code B style tournament called Courage. Which was hard ans hell and only 1 person made it every 3-4 months. a lot of people were stuck like this and it prevented a lot of really strong players from playing bw professionally.
Plus with the current system in sc2. A plyer can come and do test sessions with a team to try out for them. This means that if they think they are good enough, they can come and play and let the coaches decide who gets to be on the team.
In the bw system, that would not happen. The player would either have to be the next flash to have a team give out a special license, or they would have to have already won courage. Which means they are already super good, which also allows more rich teams to seek out that player, and other teams don't get the chance to.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. KeSPA sure as hell hasn't banned foreigners participating in their leagues or joining their teams, it's just no foreigner has been on a level worthy of a pro KeSPA team for a long, long time
The fact that it's an joint announcement with all of the big players involved is the biggest part of this news. The Korean big boys with Blizzard's blessing is possibly the best way to expand the scene and ensure long-term stability. If this is true...the tug-of-war for rights should at least have a central figure if any dispute ever arises. Even without knowing the details of the news I am excited!
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
Oh well, I just wish they can cooperate. GOM would benefit from OGN about the league operation, while OGN would get the expertise on dealing with foreign fans/viewers and how to monetize the league to foreign fans. KesPa would also have two broadcasters for their league too.
I just wish their prides and stubbornness won't destroy this opportunity.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. KeSPA sure as hell hasn't banned foreigners participating in their leagues or joining their teams, it's just no foreigner has been on a level worthy of a pro KeSPA team for a long, long time
But you are restricted to being on certain teams, no? There is none of that in SC2. Players like Huk, Idra, Thorzain, Stephano, etc would easily be good enough for a Korean team, but why would they join them? It seems like it would just hurt them. Other teams offer them a better opportunity. In a system like Kespa's though, it seems like it restricts them.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
Thats not what I meant.
The biggest problem was with the entire license deal Kespa had going. This prevented a lot of talented players from playing in events. Because they had to go through a Code B style tournament called Courage. Which was hard ans hell and only 1 person made it every 3-4 months. a lot of people were stuck like this and it prevented a lot of really strong players from playing bw professionally.
Plus with the current system in sc2. A plyer can come and do test sessions with a team to try out for them. This means that if they think they are good enough, they can come and play and let the coaches decide who gets to be on the team.
In the bw system, that would not happen. The player would either have to be the next flash to have a team give out a special license, or they would have to have already won courage. Which means they are already super good, which also allows more rich teams to seek out that player, and other teams don't get the chance to.
if the guy is so uber awesome super duper talented he wouldnt be stuck in courage and/or would get recognized over time.
like its a bad thing that u have 2 show that u are good so a team will take note of u. i mean Kespa did alot of shit but i never understand why they get shit for this stuff..
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
what is weird/stupid or whatever with a license? its basically like a contract...
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. KeSPA sure as hell hasn't banned foreigners participating in their leagues or joining their teams, it's just no foreigner has been on a level worthy of a pro KeSPA team for a long, long time
But you are restricted to being on certain teams, no? There is none of that in SC2. Players like Huk, Idra, Thorzain, Stephano, etc would easily be good enough for a Korean team, but why would they join them? It seems like it would just hurt them. Other teams offer them a better opportunity. In a system like Kespa's though, it seems like it restricts them.
so well Messi (football. for americans soccer) pro. is good enough 2 play in the german bundesliga. but guess what. he has 2 join a german team in case 2 play in a german league. GENIUS right? i know.
and imo u dont even need a team 2 play in the leagues? just a license Oo but dunno if i remember correctly.
I wonder how the leagues will be set up. Clearly they'll be working together in some capacity, but will GOM teams be allowed to participate in the proleague and vice versa? If they mix the teams, I doubt all the GOM teams will make it in; 10 teams participated in the GSTL, and there are 8 BW teams...18 would be too much.
Personally I hope OGN does a separate proleague with their 8 teams, and also runs a non-team tournament like OSL/GSL/etc with qualifiers. Maybe give Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, etc seeds alongside top SC2 players like MVP, DRG, MC, etc. Likewise, GSL would give four Code S seeds to top BW players (Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, and Bisu perhaps), while everyone else could partipate in code a/b qualifiers.
So perhaps while the OGN proleague runs, a GSL season will run on GOMTV. And when OGN's OSL type tournament is running, GSTL will run on GOMTV; having a team league and a solo tournament run at the same time seems more fair than having both team leagues competing with each other at the same time, or two solo tournaments at the same time.
Then at the end of the year have the top four OGN teams and the top four GSTL teams (based on a points system) play in a big tournament to determine who is the best team of the year. And of course the newly relevant WCG would basically be the final big solo tournament of the year/season
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
Dunno they seemed to have opened up a lot with the LoL scene....
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
Thats not what I meant.
The biggest problem was with the entire license deal Kespa had going. This prevented a lot of talented players from playing in events. Because they had to go through a Code B style tournament called Courage. Which was hard ans hell and only 1 person made it every 3-4 months. a lot of people were stuck like this and it prevented a lot of really strong players from playing bw professionally.
Plus with the current system in sc2. A plyer can come and do test sessions with a team to try out for them. This means that if they think they are good enough, they can come and play and let the coaches decide who gets to be on the team.
In the bw system, that would not happen. The player would either have to be the next flash to have a team give out a special license, or they would have to have already won courage. Which means they are already super good, which also allows more rich teams to seek out that player, and other teams don't get the chance to.
if the guy is so uber awesome super duper talented he wouldnt be stuck in courage and/or would get recognized over time.
like its a bad thing that u have 2 show that u are good so a team will take note of u. i mean Kespa did alot of shit but i never understand why they get shit for this stuff..
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
what is weird/stupid or whatever with a license? its basically like a contract...
Becuase this prevents the scene from growing like it has. players like Maru, Creator, bboongbboong wo0uld have never been able to get through courage. Not because they aren't good, but because its tough as hell and its 100x more competitive than Code B, Since only 1 courage winner every 3 months.
Than they have to find a team to give them a job. Because winning courage is not going to give you a spot on a team. A team has to want you then.
It limits the amount of people entering the scene and prevents newcomers from particpating. God knows I could not be able to win courage, neither would any of the foreigners in Korea be able to. Just how things would go about. unless a team would sacrafice on of their special exceptions, but only 2-3 teams have ever done that.,
There is no doubt in my mind that the first era of StarCraft 2 is about to come to an end. It was a time of innocence, a time of experimentation and even chaos. The Gods of Brood War now loom over us all. May they have mercy...
Honestly though, I feel like we are going to see SC2 play take a large leap forward with the best RTS players about to join the scene. There is just so much room for improvement even among our top players, largely in the micro department. Just look at the Stalker micro Parting did against MKP last night in Code S - he did more with Stalkers than anyone thought possible even against stim marines, medivacs, and tanks.
With SC2 being such a fast-paced game, keeping up with macro and microing the fast, volatile battles is extremely difficult. I can't wait to see who really has the skill to manage everything on the map that goes on in this game.
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
They self-regulate well enough.
Sponsorships? Look at most of the SC2 (ZeNEX being the only exception). Most of them have got pretty sustainable sponsorship deals. The entire western esports have been attracting sponsors for so long.
License? I think KeSPA were making more of a push towards amateurs when they did their amateur qualifiers last OSL. Fact is you don't and shouldn't need to have a license to play SC2 competitively. GSL's rules regarding a certain amount of ladder points as the limitation to join the qualifiers, should be the only regulation which is acceptable. We wouldn't have our Scarletts and Marus with such limiting rules.
Regulation? Every league and teams know how to self-regulate. Look at what SlayerS and Prime did to Coca and Byun. Yes the rules are really weird and random. But it makes a lot of better sense than KeSPA's in-game chat etiquette. The only issue I have is tournaments using differing versions of maps and map pools, but that's a small price to pay.
Yes, what KeSPA did was good for the Korean SC:BW scene. But if you're going to isolate a majority of your viewers by restricting your league's assimilation with the rest of the SC2 scene, everyone is going to lose out in the long-run.
I am not so sure if I want that. The "metagame" right now feels really weird and shifting right now. I would like to see the direction first before Blizzard changes balance. A hydra-buff would be something I would be down with though.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
This better be the announcement that finnally the day has come for BW players to start playing SC2.
I have waited so long for an actual date to see the whole starcraft pro community playing the same game, SC2. Flash, Bisu, JD, Mkp, MC, MMA, Mvp, Nestea.... LETS GOOOOO!!!
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
Oh you wouldn't want to hear what I heard from CJ Entus PR when I brought up the topic of IdrA...
But yes, if foreigners were that good, the teams would have picked up the players and give them special licenses so that they can participate in the leagues (there are 2 ways to become a progamer: Courage which is NOT 1 winner per 3 months (it's still small but definitely not 1) or through special licenses given out by the team).
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
2 per year? Foreign teams have put more players than that in a single gsl.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
Most people in the sc2 community are grossly misinformed on kespa and how it works, its a shame but thats what happens when everyone just listens to what a few angry foreigners have to say .
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
2 per year? Foreign teams have put more than players that in a single gsl.
Foreign BW players were terrible, there wasn't money in it for them.
Wait... if kespa running proleague for sc2, doesnt that mean everyone who participates has to have a progaming license? What will happen to players like boxer and nada??
On April 26 2012 15:44 OpTiKDream wrote: Wait... if kespa running proleague for sc2, doesnt that mean everyone who participates has to have a progaming license? What will happen to players like boxer and nada??
I don't get why people automatically assume that KeSPA are not going to relax or even change its rules regarding progamer licenses when they switch to SC2.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
2 per year? Foreign teams have put more players than that in a single gsl.
yes and how many of all this 54645698756 foreigners get destroyed 0-2 over and over and over and over and over and over again? what is the point if there is no license they still get destroyed. with a license they arent allowed anymore 2 get destroyed unless they get any good.
but i guess everyone knows that every foreigner but 3 or 4 suck so they dont want that and hope they get seeds like from Gom Code S or some shit?
On April 26 2012 15:44 OpTiKDream wrote: Wait... if kespa running proleague for sc2, doesnt that mean everyone who participates has to have a progaming license? What will happen to players like boxer and nada??
I don't get why people automatically assume that KeSPA are not going to relax or even change its rules regarding progamer licenses when they switch to SC2.
Yeah, I would say the only restriction for PL is that the players would need to be in an official team in the league. But right now I just wish they cooperate with GOM nicely. That's a really good step to take.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
2 per year? Foreign teams have put more players than that in a single gsl.
yes and how many of all this 54645698756 foreigners get destroyed 0-2 over and over and over and over and over and over again? what is the point if there is no license they still get destroyed. with a license they arent allowed anymore 2 get destroyed unless they get any good.
but i guess everyone knows that every foreigner but 3 or 4 suck so they dont want that and hope they get seeds like from Gom Code S or some shit?
I said teams, not players. Team Liquid, for example, has three gsl caliber players. Now do we force these players to join a new team in order to continue to compete at the highest level? Seems dumb, this seems like an attempt to save the Korean scene when all the money is overseas, even when the talent isn't. But we will have to wait on the announcement.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
Oh you wouldn't want to hear what I heard from CJ Entus PR when I brought up the topic of IdrA...
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
2 per year? Foreign teams have put more players than that in a single gsl.
yes and how many of all this 54645698756 foreigners get destroyed 0-2 over and over and over and over and over and over again? what is the point if there is no license they still get destroyed. with a license they arent allowed anymore 2 get destroyed unless they get any good.
but i guess everyone knows that every foreigner but 3 or 4 suck so they dont want that and hope they get seeds like from Gom Code S or some shit?
I said teams, not players. Team Liquid, for example, has three gsl caliber players. Now do we force these players to join a new team in order to continue to compete at the highest level? Seems dumb, this seems like an attempt to save the Korean scene when all the money is overseas, even when the talent isn't. But we will have to wait on the announcement.
they still can play in GSL. just not Proleague maybe.
Holy shit, today is the day of days for me. Stephano GSL Code S invite, TSL4, Proof of the bonjwas practicing SC2, and now this?!!??! To much for me to handle!!
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: Sponsorships? Look at most of the SC2 (ZeNEX being the only exception). Most of them have got pretty sustainable sponsorship deals.
They really don't, not at the level of Telecoms or Samsung or CJ - and they technically don't just sponsor their teams, it's their teams. SC2 teams can maybe sustain their teams at the current level, but that's still really more of a sponsored clan level than a professional sports club level.
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: License? I think KeSPA were making more of a push towards amateurs when they did their amateur qualifiers last OSL. Fact is you don't and shouldn't need to have a license to play SC2 competitively. GSL's rules regarding a certain amount of ladder points as the limitation to join the qualifiers, should be the only regulation which is acceptable. We wouldn't have our Scarletts and Marus with such limiting rules.
Of course we would have new blood and new talent. With the picture you pain, one would assume that Brood War was played by 30 year olds now. Brood War has by.Sun, Wooki, BaBy, hell even Flash is basically a kid (and he most definitely was when he started winning). How do you think they got in?
It's most definitely not a "fact" that you shouldn't need a licence to play SC2 professionally - it's just what you wish were the case. Some sort of licencing and qualification exists for any profession on the planet. If you want legitimacy, you need to separate professional players from amateur players to stop diluting the scene and focus on those players that really are the most talented, hardest workers and most committed.
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: Regulation? Every league and teams know how to self-regulate. Look at what SlayerS and Prime did to Coca and Byun. Yes the rules are really weird and random. But it makes a lot of better sense than KeSPA's in-game chat etiquette. The only issue I have is tournaments using differing versions of maps and map pools, but that's a small price to pay.
Look at the drama between Slayers and Zenex when Slayers basically poached half their players. Or the whole FruitDealer and Tester crap. Or TSL and oGs. Or Rain being banned/suspended from GSL and Idra being rewarded a free Code S spot a year later for doing the exact same thing. Or GOM seeding whoever they feel will bring them the most views straight into Code S.
Self-regulation isn't serious enough and isn't good enough, you're basically stuck with spur-of-the-moment decisions that can go whichever way the wind blows that day and decide whatever seems more convenient at the time.
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: Yes, what KeSPA did was good for the Korean SC:BW scene. But if you're going to isolate a majority of your viewers by restricting your league's assimilation with the rest of the SC2 scene, everyone is going to lose out in the long-run.
Or it can bring out your real audience instead of generic esports fans that will lose interest the moment dota 2 or any new hot marketed title comes out anyway (same case being with western sponsors, teams, etc).
Western SC2 is definitely, no matter what going to lose in the long run because western esports "regulars" - the people and companies - have proven a million times over in the past that they are purely opportunistic and cannot be trusted and relied upon to grow and nurture a scene for any single game.
There is place for a foreign SC2 scene and based on what the coaches said recently, it definitely seems that Kespa will take it into account this time. But for the sake of SC2 anywhere, it should be on their terms and within their system, because it's an inherently more serious and mature system, and the only one that has ever been proven to work in the long run.
an announcement of an announcement.. seems pretty esports to me lol.
With that said cant wait to hear what it is.. I bet its gonna be confirmation on the OSL 2 and perhaps something regarding Code S seeds to and from OSL or something...
On April 26 2012 16:14 Amlitzer wrote: What is it with starcraft and all the announcements of announcements? Can people seriously think of no other way to build up hype?
Can you think of a better idea? The current way works imo.
On April 26 2012 16:18 Sawamura wrote: Fx Boss was right man, finally we can see true Korean dominance all over the globe again ^_^ . So happy that history is repeating it self .
If history repeats itself, it means Starcraft's competitive scene dying everywhere except in Korea. Do we really want that? I don't think history will repeat itself, it's just a new epic beginning.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
Oh you wouldn't want to hear what I heard from CJ Entus PR when I brought up the topic of IdrA...
But yes, if foreigners were that good, the teams would have picked up the players and give them special licenses so that they can participate in the leagues (there are 2 ways to become a progamer: Courage which is NOT 1 winner per 3 months (it's still small but definitely not 1) or through special licenses given out by the team).
I'm curious too.
Yeah, Courage/Rookie League is 2-3 winners per month. Used to be even more a couple years ago. Players also received licenses from Elite School League.
On April 26 2012 16:18 Sawamura wrote: Fx Boss was right man, finally we can see true Korean dominance all over the globe again ^_^ . So happy that history is repeating it self .
If history repeats itself, it means Starcraft's competitive scene dying everywhere except in Korea. Do we really want that? I don't think history will repeat itself, it's just a new epic beginning.
Sorry but starcraft competitive scene is pretty niche it self and it isn't really that active globally except few countries I can't call it a global reception when it is only solely focus on American and Europe . I want history to happen again it reminds me of bw korean dominance . I am getting so nostalgic about it .
I am all for a scene that is more competitive as long as it's not at the players expense. I also like the idea that it will attract bigger/wealthier sponsorship. My only concern is that it becomes an arms race with money. ie: teams without top income are not able to compete. I feel that should be addressed, as a lot of independent western teams are started grass root style with little to no funding and climb from there.
The most interesting thing here to me is MLGs involvement. Blizzard could always get in bed with them and start cracking down on foreign broadcasting rights
Too much for my body in the same week, Diablo 3 open beta, flash, bisu, fantasy, jaedong ,stork playing and enjoying SCII, TSL4 incoming, redbull offline event with a huge prizepool, and Blizzard &kespa &OGN&GOMtv to have an official meeting about the future of SCII . This! IS! eSPORTS!
On April 26 2012 16:26 Avenix wrote: My only concern is that it becomes an arms race with money. ie: teams without top income are not able to compete. I feel that should be addressed, as a lot of independent western teams are started grass root style with little to no funding and climb from there.
This is much more of a case with the way scene works currently than with the way the whole Kespa structure works.
Which notable western teams have started grassroots style anyway? I only know of Liquid, Root and Light, and there's already no more Root. -_-
I'm sure there are smaller teams that did, but they're already suffocated by all the "esports organizations" in the west and Kespa teams won't have any additional effect on them whatsoever.
It will, however, mean that the western teams will no longer be at the top of the food chain financially, which for me personally is going to be extremely satisfying.
I'm just happy all the SC vs SC2 bullshit finally is over since I enjoy both games. The major forces finally making peace and coming together will aid this.
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: Regulation? Every league and teams know how to self-regulate. Look at what SlayerS and Prime did to Coca and Byun. Yes the rules are really weird and random. But it makes a lot of better sense than KeSPA's in-game chat etiquette. The only issue I have is tournaments using differing versions of maps and map pools, but that's a small price to pay.
Look at the drama between Slayers and Zenex when Slayers basically poached half their players. Or the whole FruitDealer and Tester crap. Or TSL and oGs. Or Rain being banned/suspended from GSL and Idra being rewarded a free Code S spot a year later for doing the exact same thing. Or GOM seeding whoever they feel will bring them the most views straight into Code S.
Self-regulation isn't serious enough and isn't good enough, you're basically stuck with spur-of-the-moment decisions that can go whichever way the wind blows that day and decide whatever seems more convenient at the time.
don't forget a team getting disbanded because the manager was molesting players
On April 26 2012 16:18 Sawamura wrote: Fx Boss was right man, finally we can see true Korean dominance all over the globe again ^_^ . So happy that history is repeating it self .
If history repeats itself, it means Starcraft's competitive scene dying everywhere except in Korea. Do we really want that? I don't think history will repeat itself, it's just a new epic beginning.
If it birngs SC2's gameplay to a higher level then i don't mind .
I think Kespa will lower it's standarts for outsiders to participate in PL and OSL , maybe give out licences to whole teams who are worthy to compete in SC 2 PL , not now though because it's a mixed BW and SC2 league .
On April 26 2012 16:26 Avenix wrote: My only concern is that it becomes an arms race with money. ie: teams without top income are not able to compete. I feel that should be addressed, as a lot of independent western teams are started grass root style with little to no funding and climb from there.
This is much more of a case with the way scene works currently than with the way the whole Kespa structure works.
Which notable western teams have started grassroots style anyway? I only know of Liquid, Root and Light, and there's already no more Root. -_-
I'm sure there are smaller teams that did, but they're already suffocated by all the "esports organizations" in the west and Kespa teams won't have any additional effect on them whatsoever.
It will, however, mean that the western teams will no longer be at the top of the food chain financially, which for me personally is going to be extremely satisfying.
Having the top western teams be more mediocre than the Korean teams was quite awkward, to say the least. It did irritate me.
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: Regulation? Every league and teams know how to self-regulate. Look at what SlayerS and Prime did to Coca and Byun. Yes the rules are really weird and random. But it makes a lot of better sense than KeSPA's in-game chat etiquette. The only issue I have is tournaments using differing versions of maps and map pools, but that's a small price to pay.
Look at the drama between Slayers and Zenex when Slayers basically poached half their players. Or the whole FruitDealer and Tester crap. Or TSL and oGs. Or Rain being banned/suspended from GSL and Idra being rewarded a free Code S spot a year later for doing the exact same thing. Or GOM seeding whoever they feel will bring them the most views straight into Code S.
Self-regulation isn't serious enough and isn't good enough, you're basically stuck with spur-of-the-moment decisions that can go whichever way the wind blows that day and decide whatever seems more convenient at the time.
don't forget a team getting disbanded because the manager was molesting players
LoL seriously, like what the hell man O_o The news of the coach molesting the players blew my mind when i read it.
On April 26 2012 16:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Global Bravery Tournament "You found the Courage to what needed to be done, but are you Brave enough to face the world?"
You mean world as in Asia,Europe and America only right ...
Btw, apparently Sundance and another MLG guy are visiting Korea this week to talk with a yet-unnamed "Korean media company," as stated by MLG Adam and maybe a few others on various talk shows.
On April 26 2012 16:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Global Bravery Tournament "You found the Courage to what needed to be done, but are you Brave enough to face the world?"
You mean world as in Asia,Europe and America only right ...
What do you want more? I don't mean to come off as an asshole or something, but you need computers and an Internet connection to play video games, so I don't really see what you expect... SC2 is as world-wide as a video game gets...
On April 26 2012 16:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Global Bravery Tournament "You found the Courage to what needed to be done, but are you Brave enough to face the world?"
You mean world as in Asia,Europe and America only right ...
Asia, Europe, Central/South America, and Austrailia/SEA. Middle East and Africia too ideally, but I don't know how popular SC2 is in those regions, or the kind of infrastructure they have to support it.
Maybe it would start out with Asia, Europe and America, but it would be more legitimate and kind of prestigeous if you could honestly say you won against the world. So the more the better.
On April 26 2012 16:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Global Bravery Tournament "You found the Courage to what needed to be done, but are you Brave enough to face the world?"
You mean world as in Asia,Europe and America only right ...
What do you want more? I don't mean to come off as an asshole or something, but you need computers and an Internet connection to play video games, so I don't really see what you expect... SC2 is as world-wide as a video game gets...
The only game to me that is actually world wide right now is LoL and Dota2 . They are the new e-sports man
My guesses are pretty broad, but I see either of the following happening:
a) KeSPA finagling their way to complete control of the starcraft scene gradually, like they had with BW, and proceed to restrict it ridiculously, thus destroying the foreign competitive scene and the pressuring/competing with the existing korean scene. b) A miraculous partnership, which ultimately leads to the greater good of the SC2 scene, at least over the next few months. Perhaps something like a joint pro league between GOM and OGN. Perhaps more specifically, that mixed BW/SC2 league, where GOM handles the SC2 part, and OGN handles the BW part? c) Absolutely nothing. It'll be a huge build up for something that doesn't really effect the domestic fan much at all in the short term, or only real business-savvy types can really appreciate.
On April 26 2012 15:33 pdd wrote: Regulation? Every league and teams know how to self-regulate. Look at what SlayerS and Prime did to Coca and Byun. Yes the rules are really weird and random. But it makes a lot of better sense than KeSPA's in-game chat etiquette. The only issue I have is tournaments using differing versions of maps and map pools, but that's a small price to pay.
Look at the drama between Slayers and Zenex when Slayers basically poached half their players. Or the whole FruitDealer and Tester crap. Or TSL and oGs. Or Rain being banned/suspended from GSL and Idra being rewarded a free Code S spot a year later for doing the exact same thing. Or GOM seeding whoever they feel will bring them the most views straight into Code S.
Self-regulation isn't serious enough and isn't good enough, you're basically stuck with spur-of-the-moment decisions that can go whichever way the wind blows that day and decide whatever seems more convenient at the time.
don't forget a team getting disbanded because the manager was molesting players
LoL seriously, like what the hell man O_o The news of the coach molesting the players blew my mind when i read it.
Yeah, it was pretty messed up. Good to see most of their players wound up fine though..
I just wish we'd get some solid information for once.
So many rumours, theory and so much speculation, then you get the smug fuckers who hint that they know what's going on with "insider" information but don't actually tell us anything.
Yea, it's building up hype, but after 4 months I just want to know what the hell is going on.
On April 26 2012 18:00 Gingerninja wrote: Sundance posted on his twitter
"It's all coming together. All of it."
Followed by this to JP... "I'm in the room with the elephant"
The whole scene both SC and SC2.. combining into one gigantic force?
Get Hype..!
Well, he is in Korea, and he just posted a pic of a sign in one of the CJ office buildings. And he is supposed to be negotiating with a yet-unnamed Korean media company.
MLG seem to purposefully be feeding us with enough info to speculate what's going on without actually saying anything.
Looking pretty conclusive that there will be an OGN/MLG partnership. I wonder what it will be? My bet would be on seeing Kespa/OGN players at upcoming MLG's, with maybe the MLG being broadcast on OGN.
Considering that WCG is now a mobile-gaming joke, I wouldn't be surprised if OGN decides to move on to MLG as a source for international tournament material.
I guess it's just gonna be Proleague with sc2/bw being official. Blizzard for the game rights, gom for the streaming rights, and ogn/kespa for decent players. I just hope gom will do more then just the rights and also do the english broadcast for it.
Yeah, there should be something to compensate for the MSL. Whether this mysterious statement will be about combining BW and SC2 or switch to SC2, it will be great news for StarCraft.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
You must be forgetting the free progamer liscences that kespa gave to teams (2 per year), arguably so that SKT could give LX and PJ licences (chinese players) and indeed, estro eventually gave idra his license through that. KeSPA never kept foreigners away, foreigners were just too shit to compete at the end of BWs life. KeSPA isn't an evil entity, they have done some dickish moves in the past, but on the whole they grew brood war in Korea and made it so that there is a esports framework setup for future generations. No reason that the same won't happen here.
Oh you wouldn't want to hear what I heard from CJ Entus PR when I brought up the topic of IdrA...
On April 26 2012 19:31 bhfberserk wrote: BW pros will probably re-invent how sc2 is played. Cannot wait to see legends showing us crazy strats and micro
Not really, why would they invent something that took two years to develop? Just stupid, rather we will see same strategies except exceptional mechanics and more multitask.
What an excellent thing to wake up to. Almost makes me feel better for missing the first half of this morning's GSL. (I was really bummed out by this!)
Well they cant include the current Sc2 teams yet, as they want to keep bw partially. sc2 teams are unable to play that, so they wont be included in Proleague( i hope)
On April 26 2012 19:05 Miyoshino wrote: Why did they let Gom get into this deal. Oh god how I hate Gom. I hate Blizzard more but since it's their game Kepspa/OGN had no choice.
They should prevent SC2 only players from playing in this league. You have to master both games. That's only fair.
...Yeah, to play soccer competitively you should also have to play baseball competitively. Makes perfect sense. Except it doesn't, and it would do nothing but hold both games back. Splitting practice time between two games = poorer performance in both games.
On April 26 2012 19:05 Miyoshino wrote: Why did they let Gom get into this deal. Oh god how I hate Gom. I hate Blizzard more but since it's their game Kepspa/OGN had no choice.
They should prevent SC2 only players from playing in this league. You have to master both games. That's only fair.
...Yeah, to play soccer competitively you should also have to play baseball competitively. Makes perfect sense. Except it doesn't, and it would do nothing but hold both games back. Splitting practice time between two games = poorer performance in both games.
SC2 players have an edge over BW players because they only practice SC2. I think that's what he was talking about.
The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
Now don't be err ageist.
Recently joined, long time lurker.
Not hard to find examples, while not all 'factual' the first quote below is a rather telling statement made by Blizzard in regards to KESPA and their dealings. I can only judge them by their past actions, words not so much.
There have been several recent events regarding Blizzard’s involvement in Korean e-Sports. I’d like to take this opportunity to explain our stance on the current situation, and Blizzard’s position and vision for the future of e-Sports. But before I begin, I need to clearly explain the relationship between Blizzard and the Korea e-Sports association, and why we made the decision to stop trying to negotiate with the KeSPA office as a partner.
In 2007, we were shocked and disappointed to learn that KeSPA had illegally sold the broadcasting rights for StarCraft tournaments without our consent. With this clear violation of our intellectual property rights, we were forced to become more actively involved in the situation and make our voice be heard. Even so, we began talks with KeSPA in good faith so we could find a way to protect our intellectual property rights as well as help e-Sports to grow further.
For the following three years, we tried very hard to have negotiations where we could correct a skewed situation and reach mutual understanding. However, during this process, what we learned was that KeSPA did not recognize our intellectual property rights, and that our suggestions even up to this day, echoed unheard while KeSPA offered no solutions of their own. Furthermore, the KeSPA office prevented pro-game teams or pro-gamers from contacting Blizzard by threatening ‘disadvantages.’ Unlike the negative rumors you might have heard, Blizzard’s intention towards e-Sports is not to ‘dominate’ it and create excessive profits from it. From the beginning of the negotiations up to now, the basic framework we have thought of is one where e-Sports can continue to grow, while we can protect our intellectual property rights.
With the release of “Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty” approaching, we decided we could not delay any further in finding a trustworthy partner who respected our intellectual property rights, and decided it was time to find a new way altogether. As a result of that decision, we signed a contract with GomTV which we announced today, which gives them the exclusive rights to hold and broadcast Blizzard game tournaments in Korea. We have cooperated closely with GomTV in the past, and discovered in the process that we have similar values and goals in e-Sports. Also, we believe that GomTV is a capable partner with whom we can not only advance e-Sports in Korea, but in the entire world as well.
We are very proud that Starcraft contributed greatly to Korea becoming a global forerunner in e-Sports. We eagerly await the day when we can support progamers, or GomTV in their efforts to cooperate with the other broadcast companies in the world of e-Sports. We will continue to do our best for the development of e-Sports, and to that end we will improve the quality of matches and add features that will create competitive factors for the enjoyment of the audience. As always, we are deeply thankful for your understanding and support, and we are always open to your thoughts opinions.
As of October 2009, the future of GOMTV tournament seem to be in jeopardy. Only 5 teams have said that they are interested in competing in the GOMTV tournament while the other teams have backed out, claiming the workload on the players is too high. There seems to be another reason, supposedly, which is the fight between Blizzard and KeSPA over the rights to StarCraft II tournaments, and KeSPA is believed to have ordered some of the teams to back out from the GOMTV Classic.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
That's a bit of a faulty logic. You can't conclude that it was the lack of Kespa that made sc2 take off, in fact I find that conclusion highly suspsicious.
On April 26 2012 19:31 bhfberserk wrote: BW pros will probably re-invent how sc2 is played. Cannot wait to see legends showing us crazy strats and micro
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
sc2 took off everywhere except korea without kespa.
Interested to see GOM included, hopefully KESPA won't chuck them under the bus, should be great! Hopefully this will begin the next stage of SC2, SC2 Proleague 2013?
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
i would say foreigners being terrible compared to the koreans did that. sc2 is big because it has local heroes, if the skill gap ends up the same in sc2 as it is in bw and foreign players will be unable to compete at all, i doubt sc2 will be able to survive in the foreign world
On April 26 2012 14:36 Nesto wrote: announcement of an announcement again? Who the fuck started that shit anyway?
Just in: iNcontroL will be hosting the meeting...
All they need now is Boxer, Flash, and MC at the meeting too (because really, why the hell not?).
This should be interesting ^^
I think Boxer will be at the meeting, since he's the headcoach and founder of SlayerS (that article said that headcoaches from the teams will also be at the meeting).
I imagine they have worked out a deal to spread SC2 out nicely. It is going to be good for GOM who i feel has run into a wall, because there is a new GSL all the time. By having different organizations run a tournament it will give GOM and the others more time to hype and prepare for events.
This announcement is the most important moment in this game so far, its potentially something that people will reference and remember 5 years from now.
On April 26 2012 22:35 Coal wrote: Man what is up with May 2nd? Everything is happening on that day o.O
??? did I miss something?
Not really ^_^
1 My final essay in Biology is due to May 2nd 2 Naniwa plays his RO8 match vs Mvp 3 Something interesting that I can't recall at the moment ^_^ 4 This!
On April 26 2012 22:35 Coal wrote: Man what is up with May 2nd? Everything is happening on that day o.O
??? did I miss something?
Not really ^_^
1 My final essay in Biology is due to May 2nd 2 Naniwa plays his RO8 match vs Mvp 3 Something interesting that I can't recall at the moment ^_^ 4 This!
I have AP Micro 4review session before school review session. Add that to the list.
If this is still true BW ain't going away just yet. The mixed league will probably decide IF and when BW ceases to exist in Proleague. Hopefully it stays.
It's a shame if BW really does die, I'd still like to watch the occasional match. That said, since BW-SC2 relations have been kinda "strained" (if you know what I mean) since SC2's release, so this could maybe open the way to mini or just-for-fun BW tournies between SC2 pros, which would be sweet and maybe a nice way to keep BW kinda current in peoples' hearts.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
sc2 took off everywhere except korea without kespa.
and 98% of the foreigners are still terrible after that "taking off". No, Im not exaggerating.
On April 26 2012 22:56 Crushgroove wrote: wow. Everyone playing nice? Hard to believe.
I'll bite then. I don't like that Sundance represents the whole foreign scene in dealing with Kespa
Perhaps it's just because he has already dealt more often with Gom or they talked to IGN before and said Sundance can go or something of the sorts. He also has the most experience with dealing with events with multiple game titles and adding new games to events.
On April 26 2012 22:56 Crushgroove wrote: wow. Everyone playing nice? Hard to believe.
I'll bite then. I don't like that Sundance represents the whole foreign scene in dealing with Kespa
Perhaps it's just because he has already dealt more often with Gom or they talked to IGN before and said Sundance can go or something of the sorts. He also has the most experience with dealing with events with multiple game titles and adding new games to events.
I think Sundance gets it.
He fired that guy, etc etc etc.
Seriously though, i don't mind that Sundance is the representative of the foreign scene in all of this. He seems to know what he's doing and he's very good at creating cooperations between multiple organisations.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
sc2 took off everywhere except korea without kespa.
and 98% of the foreigners are still terrible after that "taking off". No, Im not exaggerating.
98% of all BW players are also terrible (also in Korea). so whats your point?
On April 26 2012 23:22 Jongl0 wrote: I'm a bit skeptical but for all I know, something good might still come out of this.
Yes I think it's something good. I highly doubt they decided to get together to say. Hello fans of SC2 we've decided to kill e-sports.
Sarcasm aside, it probably league managament annoucements of the sort. Kespa players are allowed to play in GSL and MLG with some free trips to some Kespa team players to go to international events that MLG organises. Also all SC2 players that have received high spots at SC2 tournaments can join Kespa teams without a liscence or something along those lines.
Maybe not the last part since then it will be Kespa buying up Korean players instead of Liquid and EG =P. We can't have that can we. Not to mention current SC2 teams in Korea would be up in arms
On April 26 2012 23:39 OopsOopsBaby wrote: i hope kespa would exercise some pressure on blizzard to finally implement lan mode for their broadcast matches.
LoL doesn't have a lan mode and OGN runs tournaments for that. More likely is Blizzard just adds some type of resume game feature.
Am curious to see who will get the caster gig with OGN. It kinda feels like its likely to be Moletrap/Torch at this stage which I fear would be the first mistake of this new horizon.
This sounds like it has some promise and Blizzard is only going to do things that promote more SC2 in areas. MLG has always been for anyone being able to make it into the professional scene, so I don't think there will be any professional gaming licenses or exclusive contracts. KeSPA is the big unknown for me, but I am sure Blizzard has them well in check.
On April 27 2012 01:19 Pure-SC2 wrote: Am curious to see who will get the caster gig with OGN. It kinda feels like its likely to be Moletrap/Torch at this stage which I fear would be the first mistake of this new horizon.
LOL
and I mean... LoL...
LoLtrap is casting LoL tournaments now, and frankly, any decision to have him as a caster would be pure insanity, the feedback alone from the constructive people out there is very negative in regards to his quality of casting.
I don't think we have to worry about them making a mistake of this magnitude.
On April 27 2012 01:57 Lordanubis wrote: Have to admit I am hoping something happens which breaks this up.
I do not think Kespa moving in will be a good thing for SC2 globally at all. In Korea maybe, but not globally.
Very nervous - I will be extremely disheartened if this spoils the great relationship GOM have worked to build up between the scenes.
even kespa know how much money they can make in the foreign scene.. all the big tournaments likeMLG, dreamhack none of these happened as big as they are in BW, times change they will take full advatnage of that!!!
This sound super huge! I think the more tourney there will be in korea the better it will be for everyone : better for sc2 in Korea, better for foreigner, better for korean programmer, better for us spectator.
On April 27 2012 01:57 Lordanubis wrote: Have to admit I am hoping something happens which breaks this up.
I do not think Kespa moving in will be a good thing for SC2 globally at all. In Korea maybe, but not globally.
Very nervous - I will be extremely disheartened if this spoils the great relationship GOM have worked to build up between the scenes.
But Sundance keeps dropping hints about working with kespa and broodwar players at MLG. Why would he be working out deals with the organization that is going to hurt his business and spoil the relationship with korea? It doesn't make any sense!
People in this thread should tell him and blizzard that they are making a huge mistake that will kill esports outside of Korea.
On April 27 2012 01:57 Lordanubis wrote: Have to admit I am hoping something happens which breaks this up.
I do not think Kespa moving in will be a good thing for SC2 globally at all. In Korea maybe, but not globally.
Very nervous - I will be extremely disheartened if this spoils the great relationship GOM have worked to build up between the scenes.
even kespa know how much money they can make in the foreign scene.. all the big tournaments likeMLG, dreamhack none of these happened as big as they are in BW, times change they will take full advatnage of that!!!
"Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career."
This makes me think completely the opposite. There is significant potential here for them to wreck the established state of the scene.
I can always get my hopes up and think it's an announcement of a new patch for BroodWar and that GOM really wants to just say they think it's a cool and fair patch...
On April 27 2012 02:37 RunningInSquares wrote: I can always get my hopes up and think it's an announcement of a new patch for BroodWar and that GOM really wants to just say they think it's a cool and fair patch...
On April 27 2012 01:57 Lordanubis wrote: Have to admit I am hoping something happens which breaks this up.
I do not think Kespa moving in will be a good thing for SC2 globally at all. In Korea maybe, but not globally.
Very nervous - I will be extremely disheartened if this spoils the great relationship GOM have worked to build up between the scenes.
even kespa know how much money they can make in the foreign scene.. all the big tournaments likeMLG, dreamhack none of these happened as big as they are in BW, times change they will take full advatnage of that!!!
"Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career."
This makes me think completely the opposite. There is significant potential here for them to wreck the established state of the scene.
Yep, this is a move to save the Korean scene. There is little doubt about that. It can even destroy the foreign scene if top players/Koreans on foreign teams are forced into joining Korean teams in order to play against the top competition.
On April 27 2012 01:57 Lordanubis wrote: Have to admit I am hoping something happens which breaks this up.
I do not think Kespa moving in will be a good thing for SC2 globally at all. In Korea maybe, but not globally.
Very nervous - I will be extremely disheartened if this spoils the great relationship GOM have worked to build up between the scenes.
even kespa know how much money they can make in the foreign scene.. all the big tournaments likeMLG, dreamhack none of these happened as big as they are in BW, times change they will take full advatnage of that!!!
"Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career."
This makes me think completely the opposite. There is significant potential here for them to wreck the established state of the scene.
By "wreck" you mean "provide an opportunity for Koreans to make it big in their own country." If playing Sc2 is to be a respectable profession, then it needs to be possible without constantly being out of one's country. Right now, this is possible for foreigners. It's not possible for most Koreans. Nobody is saying there needs to be no foreigners at Korean events or vice-verse, but only that there's more opportunity for everyone.
I don't think the STX coach's comments suggest they want to dismantle the foreigner scene. It sounds more like they want to first establish the Korean scene, which is sensible. I'm completley fine with every MLG not including a billion Korean players to win everything, and hope we go back to the days of having 4-6 instead of double or triple that. And of course, most likely the current SC2 teams will still be sending folks over here anyway. We will see Flash play in the US, it's going to happen. Will he play in every foreigner event? No. And I'm 100% fine with that.
There will be a strong relationship simply because there is infinitely more money available in NA/EU than Korea.
You know, this should feel like great news. The feud between Blizz and Kespa seems to have settled, all major parts are gathering together to co-operate. But somehow my gut is saying that this could turn into the worst shitstorm ever, overshadowing even the bw match fixing scandal.
Hopefully this will help e-sports grow(whatever the hell that means ), lead it into an era greater than the "old bw" days
I read it as "our players won't need to go abroad at all because we'll be providing them with all the money they need, and all the best competition here". Maybe that is pessimistic, but with a relatively open ended statement like that I'd argue it's definately a valid intepretation.
The foreign scene is as great as it is now because these top players come and participate, and because our tournaments are more legitimate in terms of quality as a result. Do we need 75% Korean brackets at MLG or Dreamhack? No. But I'd argue that a good proportion of Koreans, which is about what we have now I'd say, is required in order for foreign tournaments to be seen as legitimately top quality. Having Koreans like HerO and Taeja on foreign teams is also a very good thing, as it increases the quality of foreign teams and in turn therefore gives foreign fans more enjoyable top class games to watch.
GOM have been great in this regard, as they've worked in some ways to actively encourage players to go abroad and participate to help make the global scene stronger. Whether it's reduce or eliminate that, the quote sounds very much like they want the scene to be far more insular. To me, that's very damaging for the foreign scene - though the degree of which of course depends on the exact specifics of how much they withdraw.
On April 26 2012 22:56 Crushgroove wrote: wow. Everyone playing nice? Hard to believe.
I'll bite then. I don't like that Sundance represents the whole foreign scene in dealing with Kespa
Perhaps it's just because he has already dealt more often with Gom or they talked to IGN before and said Sundance can go or something of the sorts. He also has the most experience with dealing with events with multiple game titles and adding new games to events.
I think Sundance gets it.
Sundance would do a better job of negotiating business dealings than the guy that runs IPL4. That man (I forgot his name) comes off as being too nice, whereas Sundance has stated that he intends to make MLG the premier tournament in the world. Someone who states that won't just let the Koreans demand whatever they want.
The amount of negativity in this thread is just further proof that no matter what announcement or thread anyone in this scene makes, there will be those who try to pour cold water on it just because they are negative people by nature. It's simply retarded to suggest that this could be bad for esports, considering that kespa and others have already publically said they are very interested in working with the international fans.
Just goes to show you that the negativity in these kinds of threads is nothing but small people's attempts to bring things down and destroy positivity. The best thing to do is not even quote or respond to those posts, as that only gives them the attention that keeps them going.
I don't think they will hype it up so much and then make it a completely failed negotiation. The meetings have already gone down, this is just an announcement. I am so excited!
maybe blizz wants to cooperate with KeSPA in order to do the asian world tournament like they did with MLG in the us. The finals will be in asia too so there is something longthermed planed with hots release mb ?
This will either end up being one of the best things or the worst things for SC2, so hard to say, but obviously hoping for what's best for Starcraft 2. Although it is a little sad to see BW finally fading away :S
On April 27 2012 02:51 Lordanubis wrote: I read it as "our players won't need to go abroad at all because we'll be providing them with all the money they need, and all the best competition here". Maybe that is pessimistic, but with a relatively open ended statement like that I'd argue it's definately a valid intepretation.
The foreign scene is as great as it is now because these top players come and participate, and because our tournaments are more legitimate in terms of quality as a result. Do we need 75% Korean brackets at MLG or Dreamhack? No. But I'd argue that a good proportion of Koreans, which is about what we have now I'd say, is required in order for foreign tournaments to be seen as legitimately top quality. Having Koreans like HerO and Taeja on foreign teams is also a very good thing, as it increases the quality of foreign teams and in turn therefore gives foreign fans more enjoyable top class games to watch.
GOM have been great in this regard, as they've worked in some ways to actively encourage players to go abroad and participate to help make the global scene stronger. Whether it's reduce or eliminate that, the quote sounds very much like they want the scene to be far more insular. To me, that's very damaging for the foreign scene - though the degree of which of course depends on the exact specifics of how much they withdraw.
Are you talking about the STX coach's quote? He doesn't speak for Kespa, Blizzard, GOM, or OGN (as you know) so don't sensationalize.
On April 27 2012 03:08 Bashion wrote: Announcements of announcements are killing esports.
Creating hype is killing e-sports is what you are trying to say?
I actually find it to be incredibly annoying. I'd much rather just not hear of this and wait till May 2nd. That goes for all announcements of announcements.
On April 27 2012 03:08 Bashion wrote: Announcements of announcements are killing esports.
Creating hype is killing e-sports is what you are trying to say?
I actually find it to be incredibly annoying. I'd much rather just not hear of this and wait till May 2nd. That goes for all announcements of announcements.
You mean press releases, which is what every company in the world does. Annoying or not, they are standard for all PR.
Dunno why people complaing about KeSPA. Sure they have done horrible things, but didn't they design this bw scene ? ( I only watched GSL and SPL, haven't really got any knowledge on bw development history prior to 2008 ). They are like the old testament God that created the world but make people suffers, while some thrive still. Isn't it like without KeSPA there wouldn't have been a solid bw scene ? Because if it is so, they have no duty to be the most compassionate corporation.
On April 26 2012 14:18 whsper wrote: May is going to be a busy month! Diablo 3, Kespa/Blizz announcement... and hopefully... maybe? patch 1.5?
what if 1.16.2?!
HD support added.
At least fully fix all Windows 7 issues that people are having - that's actually a must, I think they seriously have to do it. We currently fix BW through 3rd parties, which shouldn't happen for software that's still for sale.
On April 27 2012 03:08 Bashion wrote: Announcements of announcements are killing esports.
Creating hype is killing e-sports is what you are trying to say?
I actually find it to be incredibly annoying. I'd much rather just not hear of this and wait till May 2nd. That goes for all announcements of announcements.
its impossible to do that in any field that has a cult like following/fanbase.
Watch how every time the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, manager of the New York Yankees or GM of the Dallas Cowboys breathes funny the media turns it into a 5 page article covering his potential heart problem and how this could impact his effectiveness as a team manager.
On April 27 2012 04:11 MigzR wrote: Im quite new to the scene can anyone explain whats so wrong with kespa?
kespa totally isolated BW in korea from anyone foreign, most notably Blizzard itself. They crushed pretty much any other league that popped up that played BW and were brutal about doing (through legal injunctions/suits though...) and until GOM got permission from Blizzard to start their BW league there was entire monopoly with the accompanying monopolistic issues.
kespa never killed foreign scene and sc2's foreigner scene dying, when it does, will not be because of kespa. it was and will be because of lack of foreign skills. with the huge influx of top korean players coming into sc2, it does look even more grim for foreign scene. more korean domination than before. as people have said, only way foreigners can catch up or keep up is dedication and hard practice by the majority of foreign sc2 players. as competition becomes even more difficult, i can't help but think foreigners will move on with their life without starcraft. and the stigma of "lol you want to become a progamer? good luck, might as well just give up now" will be strong in the foreign scene.
when sc2 started, there was no fierce competition, there was no need for drafts, entry tournaments like courage, no need for progamer license because there simply wasn't enough demand(players) and there was no lack of supply(tournament). but as the scene grows, there will be shit load of new talents wanting to be progamers, just like how bw scene became and there will be no choice but to have arduous paths to be a progamer, just like any other professional sports.
On April 27 2012 03:08 Bashion wrote: Announcements of announcements are killing esports.
Creating hype is killing e-sports is what you are trying to say?
I actually find it to be incredibly annoying. I'd much rather just not hear of this and wait till May 2nd. That goes for all announcements of announcements.
This isn't the same as a typical online announcement where the announcement of the announcement is largely irrelevant. This is an announcement of a press conference, so they need to alert the media to cover their event. And considering the magnitude of the companies involved, this is actually worthy of the hype.
On April 27 2012 04:11 MigzR wrote: Im quite new to the scene can anyone explain whats so wrong with kespa?
kespa totally isolated BW in korea from anyone foreign, most notably Blizzard itself. They crushed pretty much any other league that popped up that played BW and were brutal about doing (through legal injunctions/suits though...) and until GOM got permission from Blizzard to start their BW league there was entire monopoly with the accompanying monopolistic issues.
i understand kespa shutting down other tournaments but in what way did they isolate bw from foreigners?? i know they didnt want kespa players playing on non-kespa sanctioned tournaments but i dont recall them taking anything away from foreign players
Very interested in the announcement. If the announcement entails the closing of BW, it would be interesting to see who is going to make the switch over. To see the Starcraft legends play SCII is going to be weird.
On April 27 2012 02:41 PlosionCornu wrote: The expected response to LoL's aggressive expansion in the korean market, last ditch-all hands on deck effort.
This is make or break for korean sc2.
I feel this is actually the reason for this collaboration and most people here seem to be missing it.
On April 27 2012 02:41 PlosionCornu wrote: The expected response to LoL's aggressive expansion in the korean market, last ditch-all hands on deck effort.
This is make or break for korean sc2.
I feel this is actually the reason for this collaboration and most people here seem to be missing it.
I don't think this is a last ditch effort. Starcraft II is doing well in Korea not as good as League of Legends. Still though we will have to wait and see if League of Legends is a fad in Korea or something is there to stay for quite sometime. My personal opinion League of Legends is very boring to watch.
On April 27 2012 02:41 PlosionCornu wrote: The expected response to LoL's aggressive expansion in the korean market, last ditch-all hands on deck effort.
This is make or break for korean sc2.
I feel this is actually the reason for this collaboration and most people here seem to be missing it.
I don't think this is a last ditch effort. Starcraft II is doing well in Korea not as good as League of Legends. Still though we will have to wait and see if League of Legends is a fad in Korea or something is there to stay for quite sometime. My personal opinion League of Legends is very boring to watch.
Dont worry, there is a plethora of people who want to see SC2 die, and will interperate anything as their prophecy coming true.
On April 27 2012 02:41 PlosionCornu wrote: The expected response to LoL's aggressive expansion in the korean market, last ditch-all hands on deck effort.
This is make or break for korean sc2.
I feel this is actually the reason for this collaboration and most people here seem to be missing it.
I don't think this is a last ditch effort. Starcraft II is doing well in Korea not as good as League of Legends. Still though we will have to wait and see if League of Legends is a fad in Korea or something is there to stay for quite sometime. My personal opinion League of Legends is very boring to watch.
Dont worry, there is a plethora of people who want to see SC2 die, and will interperate anything as their prophecy coming true.
On April 27 2012 02:41 PlosionCornu wrote: The expected response to LoL's aggressive expansion in the korean market, last ditch-all hands on deck effort.
This is make or break for korean sc2.
I feel this is actually the reason for this collaboration and most people here seem to be missing it.
Not so much LoL, just SC2 not being popular in Korea. It wasn't popular even before LoL became the new big thing, this is just an effort to try and keep Korea as the mecca of eSports.
On April 27 2012 04:15 jinorazi wrote: kespa never killed foreign scene and sc2's foreigner scene dying, when it does, will not be because of kespa. it was and will be because of lack of foreign skills. with the huge influx of top korean players coming into sc2, it does look even more grim for foreign scene. more korean domination than before. as people have said, only way foreigners can catch up or keep up is dedication and hard practice by the majority of foreign sc2 players. as competition becomes even more difficult, i can't help but think foreigners will move on with their life without starcraft. and the stigma of "lol you want to become a progamer? good luck, might as well just give up now" will be strong in the foreign scene.
when sc2 started, there was no fierce competition, there was no need for drafts, entry tournaments like courage, no need for progamer license because there simply wasn't enough demand(players) and there was no lack of supply(tournament). but as the scene grows, there will be shit load of new talents wanting to be progamers, just like how bw scene became and there will be no choice but to have arduous paths to be a progamer, just like any other professional sports.
On what grounds are you claiming that the foreign Starcraft II scene is dying? MLG is getting ridiculously large investments, and even leagues like NASL, that seemed to be on the lower end of quality when they started are having no trouble finding more than enough sponsors to operate.
On April 27 2012 04:11 MigzR wrote: Im quite new to the scene can anyone explain whats so wrong with kespa?
kespa totally isolated BW in korea from anyone foreign, most notably Blizzard itself. They crushed pretty much any other league that popped up that played BW and were brutal about doing (through legal injunctions/suits though...) and until GOM got permission from Blizzard to start their BW league there was entire monopoly with the accompanying monopolistic issues.
i understand kespa shutting down other tournaments but in what way did they isolate bw from foreigners?? i know they didnt want kespa players playing on non-kespa sanctioned tournaments but i dont recall them taking anything away from foreign players
Kespa never isolate BW foreigners. Its just that foreigners can not compete with the koreans. and iirc Kespa did not crush other league. Only half the teams were willing to play in GOM classic season 4.
On April 27 2012 04:11 MigzR wrote: Im quite new to the scene can anyone explain whats so wrong with kespa?
kespa totally isolated BW in korea from anyone foreign, most notably Blizzard itself. They crushed pretty much any other league that popped up that played BW and were brutal about doing (through legal injunctions/suits though...) and until GOM got permission from Blizzard to start their BW league there was entire monopoly with the accompanying monopolistic issues.
Are you insane? they isolated BW from anyone Foreign? How did IdrA then found his way to CJ Entus? CJ Entus had at least 100's of players on the same or better level then IdrA was back then( He was a simple B Teamer). BW scene didn't exist, compared to how big it was in Korea. Few thousands people spread across all nations on this planet wasn't enough.
On April 27 2012 04:15 jinorazi wrote: kespa never killed foreign scene and sc2's foreigner scene dying, when it does, will not be because of kespa. it was and will be because of lack of foreign skills. with the huge influx of top korean players coming into sc2, it does look even more grim for foreign scene. more korean domination than before. as people have said, only way foreigners can catch up or keep up is dedication and hard practice by the majority of foreign sc2 players. as competition becomes even more difficult, i can't help but think foreigners will move on with their life without starcraft. and the stigma of "lol you want to become a progamer? good luck, might as well just give up now" will be strong in the foreign scene.
when sc2 started, there was no fierce competition, there was no need for drafts, entry tournaments like courage, no need for progamer license because there simply wasn't enough demand(players) and there was no lack of supply(tournament). but as the scene grows, there will be shit load of new talents wanting to be progamers, just like how bw scene became and there will be no choice but to have arduous paths to be a progamer, just like any other professional sports.
On what grounds are you claiming that the foreign Starcraft II scene is dying? MLG is getting ridiculously large investments, and even leagues like NASL, that seemed to be on the lower end of quality when they started are having no trouble finding more than enough sponsors to operate.
similar to bw? giyom, elky, smuft, idra, and others which i cannot name cus i cant remember, they all came and gone and later only koreans were left in the scene....and slowly bw scene died outside of korea, perhaps even before that...there wasn't one to begine with imo. (only mania level, like tl.net pre-sc2) korean domination seems inevitable in sc2 (korean domination is going now, it'll get worse with top talents from bw join in) and people might move on to different games. i'm talking far future, not right now. i'm saying sc2 will probably die outside of korea first IF foreigners can't compete/keep up.
Every time I look at this thread, I feel even worse about it. Someone, be it Blizzard, Kespa, or even GOM, is going to seriously screw the existing scene over in the name of money and/or nationalistic arrogance.
On April 27 2012 05:43 Full.tilt wrote: I hope Blizzard are ready to grab their ankles and do whatever it takes, otherwise it's just going to be LoL all the way
I wouldn't like that so much Sc is where it should be, blizzard needs to make sure LoL doesn't dominate as much as it does now
This is the first of many steps Kespa will make in order for them to control sc2. The time has come and now all there is to do is watch how their master plan unfolds Muahahaha!!
Seriously though, this could end up being extremely good or not so good. All depends what happens I guess.
On April 27 2012 04:15 jinorazi wrote: kespa never killed foreign scene and sc2's foreigner scene dying, when it does, will not be because of kespa. it was and will be because of lack of foreign skills. with the huge influx of top korean players coming into sc2, it does look even more grim for foreign scene. more korean domination than before. as people have said, only way foreigners can catch up or keep up is dedication and hard practice by the majority of foreign sc2 players. as competition becomes even more difficult, i can't help but think foreigners will move on with their life without starcraft. and the stigma of "lol you want to become a progamer? good luck, might as well just give up now" will be strong in the foreign scene.
when sc2 started, there was no fierce competition, there was no need for drafts, entry tournaments like courage, no need for progamer license because there simply wasn't enough demand(players) and there was no lack of supply(tournament). but as the scene grows, there will be shit load of new talents wanting to be progamers, just like how bw scene became and there will be no choice but to have arduous paths to be a progamer, just like any other professional sports.
On what grounds are you claiming that the foreign Starcraft II scene is dying? MLG is getting ridiculously large investments, and even leagues like NASL, that seemed to be on the lower end of quality when they started are having no trouble finding more than enough sponsors to operate.
similar to bw? giyom, elky, smuft, idra, and others which i cannot name cus i cant remember, they all came and gone and later only koreans were left in the scene....and slowly bw scene died outside of korea, perhaps even before that...there wasn't one to begine with imo. (only mania level, like tl.net pre-sc2) korean domination seems inevitable in sc2 (korean domination is going now, it'll get worse with top talents from bw join in) and people might move on to different games. i'm talking far future, not right now. i'm saying sc2 will probably die outside of korea first IF foreigners can't compete/keep up.
Thank you for posting doomsday prophecies on every thread you can find.
While I'm anxious this may spell the end for the foreigner-friendly GOM-style SC2 scene as we know it, I'm holding out for good news to come from this. Proleague is a KeSPa product that was previously broadcast both on OGN and MBC. With MBC gone, I could see GOM coming in now to fill the former MBC spot.
So they will broadcast the new SC2-headed Proleague together with OGN, while each will retain their single-player formats (BW-OSL, SC2-GSL) for now. I could see OGN also switching OSL to SC2 in the future or coming up with a new SC2 league running BW-OSL in parallel. We shall see what will become of GSTL in light of the new Proleague. And then there are also the MLG bigshots in Korea right now... but are they really invited to the big table talks?
Wish there was also someone taking part representing the foreign community, like somebody from TL (someone mentioned Waxangel?). I guess you would also want someone to represent the Korean community then.
this meeting would have been more useful 4 or 5 years ago... transition to sc2 would have been smoother for the korean bw scene.
Still, it's good they are finally getting together and hopefully laying down a foundation so that the pro sc2 scene is able to run for the near future. Hopefully some sort of plan where the GSL takes up the MSL's mantle, the OSL transitions to sc2, and there's a realignment plan whereby the bw teams can coexist with the GSTL teams in a competitive league of some kind. (perhaps make the bw teams into one 'conference' and the GSTL teams into another 'conference'; or perhaps just mix and match them in some way so that the division between teams isn't so pronounced.)
Awesome news, I can't wait to see the bw players transition over ^^ it's going to be amazing!! Hopefully they can come up with a solid plan for good league formats and a way to promote sc2 so it becomes even bigger. This nerd is hopeful and excited :D
On April 27 2012 04:15 jinorazi wrote: kespa never killed foreign scene and sc2's foreigner scene dying, when it does, will not be because of kespa. it was and will be because of lack of foreign skills. with the huge influx of top korean players coming into sc2, it does look even more grim for foreign scene. more korean domination than before. as people have said, only way foreigners can catch up or keep up is dedication and hard practice by the majority of foreign sc2 players. as competition becomes even more difficult, i can't help but think foreigners will move on with their life without starcraft. and the stigma of "lol you want to become a progamer? good luck, might as well just give up now" will be strong in the foreign scene.
when sc2 started, there was no fierce competition, there was no need for drafts, entry tournaments like courage, no need for progamer license because there simply wasn't enough demand(players) and there was no lack of supply(tournament). but as the scene grows, there will be shit load of new talents wanting to be progamers, just like how bw scene became and there will be no choice but to have arduous paths to be a progamer, just like any other professional sports.
On what grounds are you claiming that the foreign Starcraft II scene is dying? MLG is getting ridiculously large investments, and even leagues like NASL, that seemed to be on the lower end of quality when they started are having no trouble finding more than enough sponsors to operate.
similar to bw? giyom, elky, smuft, idra, and others which i cannot name cus i cant remember, they all came and gone and later only koreans were left in the scene....and slowly bw scene died outside of korea, perhaps even before that...there wasn't one to begine with imo. (only mania level, like tl.net pre-sc2) korean domination seems inevitable in sc2 (korean domination is going now, it'll get worse with top talents from bw join in) and people might move on to different games. i'm talking far future, not right now. i'm saying sc2 will probably die outside of korea first IF foreigners can't compete/keep up.
Not at all similar.
The difference is having these massive TOURNAMENTS which our players compete in which keeps the competition high.
MLG, Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, IEM, HSC. It's no longer impossible to train at a high level outside of Korea. Hence players like Stephano. Korea already had this system in place when SC2 came out in terms of having the infrastructure for tournaments such as GSL and the players to make it competitive. That's why it's a very positive sign that all of our foreign tournaments were able to establish themselves before this switch and have a head start on the BW pros. With leagues like NASL keeping our players playing competitive matches at least once a week I think we should be fine for quite some time. Personally, I think it's just hugely positive for the global SC2 scene that this is happening.
-Proleague with merged GOM and KeSPA teams simul-cast on GOM (global online) and OGN (Korean TV) -Dual individual leagues: GSL and OSL2 -Some sort of revenue share system? -Some sort of merged team administrative system a la KeSPA?
On April 27 2012 05:43 Full.tilt wrote: I hope Blizzard are ready to grab their ankles and do whatever it takes, otherwise it's just going to be LoL all the way
I wouldn't like that so much Sc is where it should be, blizzard needs to make sure LoL doesn't dominate as much as it does now
I was mainly thinking about allowing Kespa to decide on the life of BW and for Blizzard to not push for SC2 only. I've read LoL is huge in Korea at the mo and SC2 is hardly played in PC Bangs etc, I feel like Blizzard should stop trying to exert any sort of control and just purely support whatever the people in charge of korean SC2 and BW tournaments want to do.
On April 27 2012 04:15 jinorazi wrote: kespa never killed foreign scene and sc2's foreigner scene dying, when it does, will not be because of kespa. it was and will be because of lack of foreign skills. with the huge influx of top korean players coming into sc2, it does look even more grim for foreign scene. more korean domination than before. as people have said, only way foreigners can catch up or keep up is dedication and hard practice by the majority of foreign sc2 players. as competition becomes even more difficult, i can't help but think foreigners will move on with their life without starcraft. and the stigma of "lol you want to become a progamer? good luck, might as well just give up now" will be strong in the foreign scene.
when sc2 started, there was no fierce competition, there was no need for drafts, entry tournaments like courage, no need for progamer license because there simply wasn't enough demand(players) and there was no lack of supply(tournament). but as the scene grows, there will be shit load of new talents wanting to be progamers, just like how bw scene became and there will be no choice but to have arduous paths to be a progamer, just like any other professional sports.
On what grounds are you claiming that the foreign Starcraft II scene is dying? MLG is getting ridiculously large investments, and even leagues like NASL, that seemed to be on the lower end of quality when they started are having no trouble finding more than enough sponsors to operate.
similar to bw? giyom, elky, smuft, idra, and others which i cannot name cus i cant remember, they all came and gone and later only koreans were left in the scene....and slowly bw scene died outside of korea, perhaps even before that...there wasn't one to begine with imo. (only mania level, like tl.net pre-sc2) korean domination seems inevitable in sc2 (korean domination is going now, it'll get worse with top talents from bw join in) and people might move on to different games. i'm talking far future, not right now. i'm saying sc2 will probably die outside of korea first IF foreigners can't compete/keep up.
Not at all similar.
The difference is having these massive TOURNAMENTS which our players compete in which keeps the competition high.
MLG, Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, IEM, HSC. It's no longer impossible to train at a high level outside of Korea. Hence players like Stephano. Korea already had this system in place when SC2 came out in terms of having the infrastructure for tournaments such as GSL and the players to make it competitive. That's why it's a very positive sign that all of our foreign tournaments were able to establish themselves before this switch and have a head start on the BW pros. With leagues like NASL keeping our players playing competitive matches at least once a week I think we should be fine for quite some time. Personally, I think it's just hugely positive for the global SC2 scene that this is happening.
i was speaking with the context of "kespa killing foreign scene" and i was stating that wont be the case, and how it(foreign scene) could fall, if it were to fall. i see great future for starcraft with all the organizations coming together, it can only get better.
On April 27 2012 06:33 fabiano wrote: I know we know since quite some time that BW is fading away, but every time I read news like this I still find myself with a heart full of sadness...
That feeling that you have when you know things you love are about to disappear :'(
This will either be huge or hugely disappointing. 99% chance it's huge but we shouldn't make too many assumptions before we see the announcement itself. Who knows what they will actually say? Best to just wait and see, it's been like a year now that rumors or BW pros switching and BW dying have been going on strong (I know they are older than a year but I mean legitimate rumors) and we haven't seen anything yet.
I'd love to see the training materials they use. What do you suppose are on the sheets of paper that Flash is pointing at? Obviously different units, but besides basic stats, what else?
1. Gom shares broadcasting rights with OGN 2. OGN and Gom will have individual leagues. Much like OSL and MLS 3. They will either have 1 collaborative team league or each have one. 4. Kespa will recognize sc2 players as pros.
I'm interested in seeing how much of this announcement is donkey stuff and how much of it demonstrates a realistic understanding of what the Korean scene is.
On April 27 2012 07:42 oBlade wrote: I'm interested in seeing how much of this announcement is donkey stuff and how much of it demonstrates a realistic understanding of what the Korean scene is.
What is "a realistic understanding of what the Korean scene is" exactly? As you see it that is. I'm just curious because this is kind of an arbitrary way to judge whatever news comes out of this announcement.
On April 27 2012 07:55 archonOOid wrote: Is the market value of the Korean starcraft leagues worth so much to Blizzard that they are willing to settle their differences?
I'm just glad that two corporations could find reason and act in a mature way, looking forward to the cooperation and the great things it will bring.
On April 27 2012 07:55 archonOOid wrote: Is the market value of the Korean starcraft leagues worth so much to Blizzard that they are willing to settle their differences?
I'm just glad that two corporations could find reason and act in a mature way, looking forward to the cooperation and the great things it will bring.
Yeah this is really refreshing. I hope they have some fresh, and intelligent models, and that they realize they'll all be better off if sc2 grows in the future, and not act in the best interest of their company right now.
On April 27 2012 07:40 Luepert wrote: 1. Gom shares broadcasting rights with OGN 2. OGN and Gom will have individual leagues. Much like OSL and MLS 3. They will either have 1 collaborative team league or each have one. 4. Kespa will recognize sc2 players as pros.
That is a best case scenario. Wonder what the worst is.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
Now don't be err ageist.
Recently joined, long time lurker.
Not hard to find examples, while not all 'factual' the first quote below is a rather telling statement made by Blizzard in regards to KESPA and their dealings. I can only judge them by their past actions, words not so much.
There have been several recent events regarding Blizzard’s involvement in Korean e-Sports. I’d like to take this opportunity to explain our stance on the current situation, and Blizzard’s position and vision for the future of e-Sports. But before I begin, I need to clearly explain the relationship between Blizzard and the Korea e-Sports association, and why we made the decision to stop trying to negotiate with the KeSPA office as a partner.
In 2007, we were shocked and disappointed to learn that KeSPA had illegally sold the broadcasting rights for StarCraft tournaments without our consent. With this clear violation of our intellectual property rights, we were forced to become more actively involved in the situation and make our voice be heard. Even so, we began talks with KeSPA in good faith so we could find a way to protect our intellectual property rights as well as help e-Sports to grow further.
For the following three years, we tried very hard to have negotiations where we could correct a skewed situation and reach mutual understanding. However, during this process, what we learned was that KeSPA did not recognize our intellectual property rights, and that our suggestions even up to this day, echoed unheard while KeSPA offered no solutions of their own. Furthermore, the KeSPA office prevented pro-game teams or pro-gamers from contacting Blizzard by threatening ‘disadvantages.’ Unlike the negative rumors you might have heard, Blizzard’s intention towards e-Sports is not to ‘dominate’ it and create excessive profits from it. From the beginning of the negotiations up to now, the basic framework we have thought of is one where e-Sports can continue to grow, while we can protect our intellectual property rights.
With the release of “Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty” approaching, we decided we could not delay any further in finding a trustworthy partner who respected our intellectual property rights, and decided it was time to find a new way altogether. As a result of that decision, we signed a contract with GomTV which we announced today, which gives them the exclusive rights to hold and broadcast Blizzard game tournaments in Korea. We have cooperated closely with GomTV in the past, and discovered in the process that we have similar values and goals in e-Sports. Also, we believe that GomTV is a capable partner with whom we can not only advance e-Sports in Korea, but in the entire world as well.
We are very proud that Starcraft contributed greatly to Korea becoming a global forerunner in e-Sports. We eagerly await the day when we can support progamers, or GomTV in their efforts to cooperate with the other broadcast companies in the world of e-Sports. We will continue to do our best for the development of e-Sports, and to that end we will improve the quality of matches and add features that will create competitive factors for the enjoyment of the audience. As always, we are deeply thankful for your understanding and support, and we are always open to your thoughts opinions.
As of October 2009, the future of GOMTV tournament seem to be in jeopardy. Only 5 teams have said that they are interested in competing in the GOMTV tournament while the other teams have backed out, claiming the workload on the players is too high. There seems to be another reason, supposedly, which is the fight between Blizzard and KeSPA over the rights to StarCraft II tournaments, and KeSPA is believed to have ordered some of the teams to back out from the GOMTV Classic.
Considering the fact that Blizzard's contribution over any kind of an e-Sport thing is even less than KeSPA's contribution over foreign e-Sports, they didn't and shouldn't have anything to say about which tournaments should or should not have their games. The most recent IP rights case didn't result in Blizzard's favor either. The IP thing is just something that got made up by them (not the original Intellectual Property but the thing that Blizzard claims).
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
Yeah, look at how quickly SC2 took off in SK. Until there were rumors of KeSPA getting involved with SC2, its popularity in SK was similar to BW's popularity in anywhere except SK. KeSPA is doing their things right in their way. If it wasn't the case, most of these SC2 teams wouldn't be wishing for KeSPA to take over SC2 scene too so that SC2 could get popularity up until 2-3 months ago, when the rumors first kicked in.
On April 27 2012 07:40 Luepert wrote: 1. Gom shares broadcasting rights with OGN 2. OGN and Gom will have individual leagues. Much like OSL and MLS 3. They will either have 1 collaborative team league or each have one. 4. Kespa will recognize sc2 players as pros.
That is a best case scenario. Wonder what the worst is.
If KeSPA gets the rights for BW as well and actually continue BW Proleague too, then it's the best case scenario.
On April 26 2012 14:18 whsper wrote: May is going to be a busy month! Diablo 3, Kespa/Blizz announcement... and hopefully... maybe? patch 1.5?
what if 1.16.2?!
YEESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D reading through this whole thread, this post made me the happiest. Everyone seems so negative about kespa... i know like they're sometimes really retarded, but they still got the scene as it is now~
On April 27 2012 07:40 Luepert wrote: 1. Gom shares broadcasting rights with OGN 2. OGN and Gom will have individual leagues. Much like OSL and MLS 3. They will either have 1 collaborative team league or each have one. 4. Kespa will recognize sc2 players as pros.
That is a best case scenario. Wonder what the worst is.
The best case scenario would involve all of that as well as Blizzard announcing those games will be run on a private LAN.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
Crazy big? Yes. Dying? Also yes, because of Savior. Seriously, if all of you knew Korean... You'd see the truth.
However, during this process, what we learned was that KeSPA did not recognize our intellectual property rights, and that our suggestions even up to this day, echoed unheard while KeSPA offered no solutions of their own.
Even from the start of negotiations, that some sort of license being needed is something both sides agreed on. It's just that there were some clashing of opinions in details, and working that out took time. KeSPA and OGN-MBCGame had come to acknowledge that licensing requirement (with our products), and that allowed us to proceed with the negotiation as quickly as possible for the fans.
STX Head Coach is my new hero... he just spews wisdom in his interview with Fomos... almost tearing up
STX Coach Lee: I think Blizzard named their new game very well. If the name of SC2 wasn’t “StarCraft 2”, I’m quite certain we wouldn’t even need to have this talk right now.
STX Coach Lee: Well, SC1 was released in 1998 and about 2 years later, the game in itself has already sort of faded off. We revived it as legitimate eSports content and have kept it going for this long, until today. It was essentially dead overseas and many people pointed fingers at us for playing an archaic game. However, as times passed, the number of SC1 fans increased, both here and globally. When did TeamLiquid first launch? I feel like the number of SC1 fans are actually steadily growing globally. Of course, we can’t really compare with the number of SC2 fans, but the interest for SC1 is definitely there. Some are saying SC2 will open the doors to globalize the Korean eSports scene, but I have a different viewpoint on this. Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career.
On April 27 2012 08:57 Bisu-Fan wrote: STX Head Coach is my new hero... he just spews wisdom in his interview with Fomos... almost tearing up
STX Coach Lee: I think Blizzard named their new game very well. If the name of SC2 wasn’t “StarCraft 2”, I’m quite certain we wouldn’t even need to have this talk right now.
STX Coach Lee: Well, SC1 was released in 1998 and about 2 years later, the game in itself has already sort of faded off. We revived it as legitimate eSports content and have kept it going for this long, until today. It was essentially dead overseas and many people pointed fingers at us for playing an archaic game. However, as times passed, the number of SC1 fans increased, both here and globally. When did TeamLiquid first launch? I feel like the number of SC1 fans are actually steadily growing globally. Of course, we can’t really compare with the number of SC2 fans, but the interest for SC1 is definitely there. Some are saying SC2 will open the doors to globalize the Korean eSports scene, but I have a different viewpoint on this. Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career.
Wisdom? WISDOM? You can't be serious. More like arrogance, thinking South Korean scene is all that matters to him.
above all else, i really hope they talk about the game.(if not this time, next time) blizzard should really listen to what the pro players think is good and bad, what needs to be done, how and why. i'd love to see starcraft 2 last 15 years AFTER lotv. do what the good/smart/logical/experienced players want, not what browder thinks is cool.
no matter what these organizations do, things will not last if the game can't carry it.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
Crazy big? Yes. Dying? Also yes, because of Savior. Seriously, if all of you knew Korean... You'd see the truth.
Um what? sure it was dying but what does that have to do with anything I said?
On April 27 2012 08:57 Bisu-Fan wrote: STX Head Coach is my new hero... he just spews wisdom in his interview with Fomos... almost tearing up
STX Coach Lee: I think Blizzard named their new game very well. If the name of SC2 wasn’t “StarCraft 2”, I’m quite certain we wouldn’t even need to have this talk right now.
STX Coach Lee: Well, SC1 was released in 1998 and about 2 years later, the game in itself has already sort of faded off. We revived it as legitimate eSports content and have kept it going for this long, until today. It was essentially dead overseas and many people pointed fingers at us for playing an archaic game. However, as times passed, the number of SC1 fans increased, both here and globally. When did TeamLiquid first launch? I feel like the number of SC1 fans are actually steadily growing globally. Of course, we can’t really compare with the number of SC2 fans, but the interest for SC1 is definitely there. Some are saying SC2 will open the doors to globalize the Korean eSports scene, but I have a different viewpoint on this. Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career.
Wisdom? WISDOM? You can't be serious. More like arrogance, thinking South Korean scene is all that matters to him.
K now, I think you're just stalking me and just bashing whatever I say... First off, I do speak Korean... Been speaking it since birth~ and the wisdom I was talking about was just in my opinion; sorry if that went unwelcome to you... If you read the full interview, you would have seen STX's coach saying what Korea did wrong with SC1 and pointing out all the faults. Dude I'm quoting an SC1 coaches' interview; did you expect them all to be all perfect blindly happy about the integration? No they have their own opinions...
And also, you don't see me bashing everyone who's excited about the upcoming announcement. They all are talking about an integration... I'm not the one going, "oh y'all are idiots and the SC2 scene is all that's important to you"
Great moments are born from great opportunity. And that's what you have here may 2nd, boys. That's what you've earned here, may 2nd. One announcement If we annouced 'em ten times, they would be announcements of announcement. But not this announcement Not may 2nd.. May 2nd, we play with 'em May 2nd, we stay with 'em, and we shut them down because we can! May 2nd, we are the greatest starcraft players in the world. They were born to be starcraft players -- every one of 'em And you were meant to be here may 2nd. This is our time. Their time -- is done. It's over. I'm sick and tired of hearin' about what great starcraft teams kespa have. Screw 'em! This is our time!! Now go out there and take it It's about time.
Artosis knows nothing about this conference, which he claims is strange since he is usually aware of stuff in the scene months in advance.
Most of the hosts think that most of this conference will be rather generic PR statements about expanding esports and cooperating and catering the fans yada yada yada. Although they speculate that perhaps there might be some info about the upcoming Proleague.
All in all, not much info discussed on State of the Game. Just basic speculation.
On April 27 2012 09:18 eviltomahawk wrote: Listening to State of the Game.
Artosis knows nothing about this conference, which he claims is strange since he is usually aware of stuff in the scene months in advance.
Most of the hosts think that most of this conference will be rather generic PR statements about expanding esports and cooperating and catering the fans yada yada yada. Although they speculate that perhaps there might be some info about the upcoming Proleague.
All in all, not much info discussed on State of the Game. Just basic speculation.
There is no way Paul Sams is attending this thing without something concrete coming out of it. The only way this thing is completely window dressing is if Blizzard is NOT attending. If Blizzard is there something of concrete substance will be announced not just same airy-fairy "mission statement".
this is bad do you know kespa controlled the teams over there and its like a monopoly where we'll have to pay to watch and theres only 1 tournament with good people this is horrible
On April 27 2012 09:18 eviltomahawk wrote: Listening to State of the Game.
Artosis knows nothing about this conference, which he claims is strange since he is usually aware of stuff in the scene months in advance.
Most of the hosts think that most of this conference will be rather generic PR statements about expanding esports and cooperating and catering the fans yada yada yada. Although they speculate that perhaps there might be some info about the upcoming Proleague.
All in all, not much info discussed on State of the Game. Just basic speculation.
won't be surprised if he is only hiding something. he works for gom afterall
On April 27 2012 10:46 Freezd wrote: this is bad do you know kespa controlled the teams over there and its like a monopoly where we'll have to pay to watch and theres only 1 tournament with good people this is horrible
there's already only one tournament with good people that we have to pay for.
On April 27 2012 08:57 Bisu-Fan wrote: STX Head Coach is my new hero... he just spews wisdom in his interview with Fomos... almost tearing up
STX Coach Lee: I think Blizzard named their new game very well. If the name of SC2 wasn’t “StarCraft 2”, I’m quite certain we wouldn’t even need to have this talk right now.
STX Coach Lee: Well, SC1 was released in 1998 and about 2 years later, the game in itself has already sort of faded off. We revived it as legitimate eSports content and have kept it going for this long, until today. It was essentially dead overseas and many people pointed fingers at us for playing an archaic game. However, as times passed, the number of SC1 fans increased, both here and globally. When did TeamLiquid first launch? I feel like the number of SC1 fans are actually steadily growing globally. Of course, we can’t really compare with the number of SC2 fans, but the interest for SC1 is definitely there. Some are saying SC2 will open the doors to globalize the Korean eSports scene, but I have a different viewpoint on this. Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career.
Wisdom? WISDOM? You can't be serious. More like arrogance, thinking South Korean scene is all that matters to him.
Actually no, that's wisdom. But it's also stupidity. The reason Korean SC2 progamers have to go overseas to earn foreign currency is because SC:BW boycotted SC2 for so long, and the massive Korean sponsors that allow BW progamers to earn a good living playing BW, are not helping SC2 progamers at all. SC2 has no economy when comparing to SC:BW, and that's because everyone in BW has been trying so hard to hurt SC2 and prevent it from dominating BW. Now that BW has been unsuccessful in doing so, they are saying "okay, we kinda have to join them I guess...". Regardless though, there just hasn't been any money in SC2 in Korea yet, and that is completely the fault of people like the STX Coach Lee and the other important people in BW.
I do believe that Korea should wake up and provide their progamers with very nice careers though, so that Koreans no longer feel so pressed to go to foreign tournaments. The powerhouse nation is not supposed to venture out into the world, the world is supposed to feel enthralled to visit the powerhouse nation. Korea has failed up until now to maintain that powerhouse status, which is what Coach Lee was trying to say, but Coach Lee was part of the reason they have done so.
GSL has been great from the regular seasons and onward, but GSTL has never been that great for me. I think its popular mostly because people so badly want to have something similar to Proleague for SC2, GSTL just aint it, be it because of format, prestige or prizemoney. Hope for a teamleague that excites fans like Proleague does.
I personally didnt like Prime, controversy aside, being able to make it all the way to the finals and beat a team like Startale just because they have a player like MarineKing on fire during the months its played, with so little contribution from other players. (Yes, I know Byuns 3kill of ST.Protoss contradicts this a tiny bit)
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
yo examples please.
-"Prize Hunter" SC2 player bashing by KeSPA-affiliated media sites -Alleged Lobbying of Korean Game Rating Board for +18 rating (averted with +12 version with no gore, which is still bullshit) -Labelling GSL as Amateur League -No GSL related news on sites like Fomos and DES until recently, and if any, they are biased article shed with negative light -THAT COPYRIGHT WAR between Blizzard and KeSPA
And last but not least, -Splitting the fanbase into two extremeties: SC2 vs BW.
Don't tell me it was SC2 fans who started that emnity, it was KeSPA.
Edit1: Actually there are plenty more but I won't bother listing them out when they could be found so easily with thread search.
Edit2: Discussing this any further will cause massive flamewar I'm sure. Let's stop here.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
yo examples please.
-"Prize Hunter" SC2 player bashing by KeSPA-affiliated media sites -Alleged Lobbying of Korean Game Rating Board for +18 rating (averted with +12 version with no gore, which is still bullshit) -Labelling GSL as Amateur League -No GSL related news on sites like Fomos and DES until recently, and if any, they are biased article shed with negative light -THAT COPYRIGHT WAR between Blizzard and KeSPA
And last but not least, -Splitting the fanbase into two extremeties: SC2 vs BW.
Don't tell me it was SC2 fans who started that emnity, it was KeSPA.
Edit1: Actually there are plenty more but I won't bother listing them out when they could be found so easily with thread search.
Edit2: Discussing this any further will cause massive flamewar I'm sure. Let's stop here.
All this are merely your opinions and one biased korean view on the whole situation isn't going to make your argument strong . Stop with the caps please it isn't helping your point get through the net .
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
yo examples please.
-"Prize Hunter" SC2 player bashing by KeSPA-affiliated media sites -Alleged Lobbying of Korean Game Rating Board for +18 rating (averted with +12 version with no gore, which is still bullshit) -Labelling GSL as Amateur League -No GSL related news on sites like Fomos and DES until recently, and if any, they are biased article shed with negative light -THAT COPYRIGHT WAR between Blizzard and KeSPA
And last but not least, -Splitting the fanbase into two extremeties: SC2 vs BW.
Don't tell me it was SC2 fans who started that emnity, it was KeSPA.
Edit1: Actually there are plenty more but I won't bother listing them out when they could be found so easily with thread search.
Edit2: Discussing this any further will cause massive flamewar I'm sure. Let's stop here.
All this are merely your opinions and one biased korean view on the whole situation isn't going to make your argument strong . Stop with the caps please it isn't helping your point get through the net .
Nice try with downplaying.
DCInside SC2 Gallery, PlayXP, and maybe PGR21 share the same opinion more or less.
It's that obvious, even with shitty google translate.
On April 26 2012 19:50 Aetherial wrote: The involvement of KESPA in anything like this always makes me anxious. Their organisational culture has been to command & conquer with an iron fist, their past actions and current BW structure show this. Knowing the corporate world, there will be a lot of political power plays going on in the background right now. I'm sure Blizzard and GOM will be wary of KESPA, so it will be interesting to see what agreement comes out. I'm really hoping KESPA will be marginalized, but I'm sure they won't do so without a fight.
TBH I feel sorry for GOM and the participating GSL SC2 teams, they have done all the heavy lifting to bring the global SC2 and Korean SC2 scenes together. My bet would be that KESPA's plan will be to play nice at first, extract all the value, and then strong arm them into submission. Blizzard won't really care as long as they continue to make mountains of cash.
Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
yo examples please.
-"Prize Hunter" SC2 player bashing by KeSPA-affiliated media sites -Alleged Lobbying of Korean Game Rating Board for +18 rating (averted with +12 version with no gore, which is still bullshit) -Labelling GSL as Amateur League -No GSL related news on sites like Fomos and DES until recently, and if any, they are biased article shed with negative light -THAT COPYRIGHT WAR between Blizzard and KeSPA
And last but not least, -Splitting the fanbase into two extremeties: SC2 vs BW.
Don't tell me it was SC2 fans who started that emnity, it was KeSPA.
Edit1: Actually there are plenty more but I won't bother listing them out when they could be found so easily with thread search.
Edit2: Discussing this any further will cause massive flamewar I'm sure. Let's stop here.
All this are merely your opinions and one biased korean view on the whole situation isn't going to make your argument strong . Stop with the caps please it isn't helping your point get through the net .
Nice try with downplaying.
DCInside SC2 Gallery, PlayXP, and maybe PGR21 share the same opinion more or less.
It's that obvious, even with shitty google translate.
Stop with the denial.
Google translate sucks and most of the subtle and true meaning of the whole article usually get's lost in translation . It's not about down playing man you are merely throwing assumptions pasting a little bit of information from one guys take on the kespa and blizzard issue than assume it's fact huh ? . Not in denial because it seems that you guys in sc2 have already been indoctrinated that kespa is inherently evil and that's like in this day of age believing dragons still do exist .
On April 26 2012 19:58 Djagulingu wrote: [quote] Considering you only have joined in 2010 and how deep of a knowledge you have on KeSPA and their organizational culture, I have to ask you about which sources you use for your credibility. I wonder that too. As far as I know, KeSPA (despite all their mistakes in the past) ran the scene quite well up to now. For more than 10 years. Their only major mistake is (in my opinion) to try and exclude GOM and now they are fixing it.
But as I have said before, I like to learn further about KeSPA and what makes you anxious about them.
What. KeSPA is terrible. The way they run things is a huge reason of why BW never really got out of Korea. Look at SC2 without them and how quickly it took off.
yeah but at the same time they way they run things is the reason why BW lasts this long.
haha yeah and i think you might have forgotten that BW was >10 years old and the eSports scene was crazy big when SC2 came out. BW literally opened the way up for the SC2 scene to get as large as it did in such a short time...
how can you say korean BW (aka kespa) is the reason for sc2 being so big? kespa has been actively working to hurt sc2 up until this point and the korean scene has had to be dragged into the sc2 world. the only thing, imo. to thank korean bw for is teamliquid, and they hardly did that on purpose.
yo examples please.
-"Prize Hunter" SC2 player bashing by KeSPA-affiliated media sites -Alleged Lobbying of Korean Game Rating Board for +18 rating (averted with +12 version with no gore, which is still bullshit) -Labelling GSL as Amateur League -No GSL related news on sites like Fomos and DES until recently, and if any, they are biased article shed with negative light -THAT COPYRIGHT WAR between Blizzard and KeSPA
And last but not least, -Splitting the fanbase into two extremeties: SC2 vs BW.
Don't tell me it was SC2 fans who started that emnity, it was KeSPA.
Edit1: Actually there are plenty more but I won't bother listing them out when they could be found so easily with thread search.
Edit2: Discussing this any further will cause massive flamewar I'm sure. Let's stop here.
All this are merely your opinions and one biased korean view on the whole situation isn't going to make your argument strong . Stop with the caps please it isn't helping your point get through the net .
Nice try with downplaying.
DCInside SC2 Gallery, PlayXP, and maybe PGR21 share the same opinion more or less.
It's that obvious, even with shitty google translate.
Stop with the denial.
Google translate sucks and most of the subtle and true meaning of the whole article usually get's lost in translation . It's not about down playing man you are merely throwing assumptions pasting a little bit of information from one guys take on the kespa and blizzard issue than assume it's fact huh ? . Not in denial because it seems that you guys in sc2 have already been indoctrinated that kespa is inherently evil and that's like in this day of age believing dragons still do exist .
Hey, you've been here longer than I have, you should have connections with the guys up there who can translate for you. Since you won't believe and will just downplay whatever I would put up here, ask Milkis or something, they can probably tell you more about how those communities think of KeSPA.
Though I gotta admit, KeSPA used to be good until they brought the big companies into the fray... at that point they started to fuck up big time.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
your better than this.... each individual teams training conditions vary and for good reason... each team makes their own rules....
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
your better than this.... each individual teams training conditions vary and for good reason... each team makes their own rules....
Nice nitpicking. Alright, I'll play your game.
They are all more or less "chicken coop" tier.
They still don't get the same amount of freedom as the current GSL SC2 players do.
Have you seen any BW pros streaming their ladder games, like SC2 players?
Hell, MKP is streaming right now as I write this.
And aside from that, did you know that KeSPA banned those harmless soccer gathering between players to prevent them from forming an "union?"
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Now you're going down with name calling, eh?
Nice setting example of fine posting.
Those demands weren't ridiculous at all.
It's Blizzard's game, not KeSPA's.
And KeSPA were still under NDA so they weren't supposed to release those terms to the outsiders without the express agreement of both sides.
Don't. It's pointless. KeSPA is going to have to operate on Blizzard's terms this time around. They can't just suddenly go rogue, and it's definitely not in their best interest anymore since they pretty much lost BW as a profitable scene. What happened in the past isn't really relevant.
On April 27 2012 13:28 xBillehx wrote: Don't. It's pointless. KeSPA is going to have to operate on Blizzard's terms this time around. They can't just suddenly go rogue, and it's definitely not in their best interest anymore since they pretty much lost BW as a profitable scene. What happened in the past isn't really relevant.
That's like saying "OMG, it's all in the past! Give a pedo another chance to be a kindergarden teacher!"
Oh they'll go rogue one way or another, given their past history of their stupidity and greed.
If anyone can redefine the definition of stupidity and greed, it's KeSPA, believe me.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his signature. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
Yes, I have something against KeSPA, ever since they treated Pioneers of SC2 as "Prize Hunters" and "Traitors."
Ever since Jaedong almost went teamless for good when he declared FA.
Ever since that Heater Power Outage.
Ever since their shitty site management regards to rankings. (almost no data on other competitive games, just BW, and even that's not done properly)
Ever since their abandonment of competitive WC3 scene in favor of BW scene. (They could've co-existed you know?)
Ever since they allowed Park Chan Soo to "retire" when he was involved in match-fixing scandal.
Ever since... oh fuck this, I'm not gonna bother listing all their wrong doings in 1 post.
Anyways, I've seen plenty of times when the loudest opinions become facts.
It happens on every forum.
I'm just going to make sure that pro-KeSPA won't be dominant opinion on SC2 board.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
Yes, I have something against KeSPA, ever since they treated Pioneers of SC2 as "Prize Hunters" and "Traitors."
Ever since Jaedong almost went teamless for good when he declared FA.
Ever since that Heater Power Outage.
Ever since their shitty site management regards to rankings. (almost no data on other competitive games, just BW, and even that's not done properly)
Ever since their abandonment of competitive WC3 scene in favor of BW scene. (They could've co-existed you know?)
Ever since they allowed Park Chan Soo to "retire" when he was involved in match-fixing scandal.
Ever since... oh fuck this, I'm not gonna bother listing all their wrong doings in 1 post.
Anyways, I've seen plenty of times when the loudest opinions become facts.
It happens on every forum.
I'm just going to make sure that pro-KeSPA won't be dominant opinion on SC2 board.
haha are you fucking serious ? : D well thats a way u can handel things :D jsut blame every single thing on 1 person/company or whatever :D
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
Yes, I have something against KeSPA, ever since they treated Pioneers of SC2 as "Prize Hunters" and "Traitors."
Ever since Jaedong almost went teamless for good when he declared FA.
Ever since that Heater Power Outage.
Ever since their shitty site management regards to rankings. (almost no data on other competitive games, just BW, and even that's not done properly)
Ever since their abandonment of competitive WC3 scene in favor of BW scene. (They could've co-existed you know?)
Ever since they allowed Park Chan Soo to "retire" when he was involved in match-fixing scandal.
Ever since... oh fuck this, I'm not gonna bother listing all their wrong doings in 1 post.
Anyways, I've seen plenty of times when the loudest opinions become facts.
It happens on every forum.
I'm just going to make sure that pro-KeSPA won't be dominant opinion on SC2 board.
haha are you fucking serious ? : D well thats a way u can handel things :D jsut blame every single thing on 1 person/company or whatever :D
But the blame really does go to KeSPA.
And they are the tyrant that decides everything in the BW turf.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
Yes, I have something against KeSPA, ever since they treated Pioneers of SC2 as "Prize Hunters" and "Traitors."
Ever since Jaedong almost went teamless for good when he declared FA.
Ever since that Heater Power Outage.
Ever since their shitty site management regards to rankings. (almost no data on other competitive games, just BW, and even that's not done properly)
Ever since their abandonment of competitive WC3 scene in favor of BW scene. (They could've co-existed you know?)
Ever since they allowed Park Chan Soo to "retire" when he was involved in match-fixing scandal.
Ever since... oh fuck this, I'm not gonna bother listing all their wrong doings in 1 post.
Anyways, I've seen plenty of times when the loudest opinions become facts.
It happens on every forum.
I'm just going to make sure that pro-KeSPA won't be dominant opinion on SC2 board.
haha are you fucking serious ? : D well thats a way u can handel things :D jsut blame every single thing on 1 person/company or whatever :D
But the blame really does go to KeSPA.
And they are the tyrant that decides everything in the BW turf.
Also, KeSPA, a company? LOL
Seriously, I'm open for rebuttal.
never said they are "or whatever".
and the fact tha tu blame them for all this just makes it pointless 2 talk with u about this :D cause there is some deep hate in u against them.
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA?
You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
Yes, I have something against KeSPA, ever since they treated Pioneers of SC2 as "Prize Hunters" and "Traitors."
Ever since Jaedong almost went teamless for good when he declared FA.
Ever since that Heater Power Outage.
Ever since their shitty site management regards to rankings. (almost no data on other competitive games, just BW, and even that's not done properly)
Ever since their abandonment of competitive WC3 scene in favor of BW scene. (They could've co-existed you know?)
Ever since they allowed Park Chan Soo to "retire" when he was involved in match-fixing scandal.
Ever since... oh fuck this, I'm not gonna bother listing all their wrong doings in 1 post.
Anyways, I've seen plenty of times when the loudest opinions become facts.
It happens on every forum.
I'm just going to make sure that pro-KeSPA won't be dominant opinion on SC2 board.
haha are you fucking serious ? : D well thats a way u can handel things :D jsut blame every single thing on 1 person/company or whatever :D
But the blame really does go to KeSPA.
And they are the tyrant that decides everything in the BW turf.
Also, KeSPA, a company? LOL
Seriously, I'm open for rebuttal.
never said they are "or whatever".
and the fact tha tu blame them for all this just makes it pointless 2 talk with u about this :D cause there is some deep hate in u against them.
And they are justified.
You foreigners just watched the shits flying around from faaaaaaaaar away in your cozy TL forums.
We koreans had to deal with the shits KeSPA flung at us, every. single. time.
You know nothing. Don't be so quick to judge when you know jack shit.
And seriously, fix your spellings man, are you typing from a smartphone?
On April 27 2012 12:30 SyDwaeji wrote: STREAM. THE. MEETING.
Yeah... Would be EPIC to have this meeting streamed with English translation (I believe it will be translated, since there will be some Blizzard executives there).
On April 27 2012 12:58 ShadeR wrote: nothing wrong with the first 3 points. point 4 is a result of the position held in point 3. blizzard sued ogn and mbc. GET OUTA MAH HOUSE
read the link you posted. got upto point 12. where kespa tells players not to play in gom. stopped reading and rofl.
What's wrong with Blizzard suing stations profitting off from Blizzard's game WITHOUT Blizzard's permission?
Gretech actually asked Blizzard before they started off their own league and Blizzard made Gretech pay only $1 USD.
Now what does that tell you?
And KeSPA did pull their players off from TG-Sambo Intel Classics with their bullshit excuses of they already have enough with OSL and MSL. Ha! As if KeSPA cared about players' welfare with their "chicken coop" training regime.
What that tells us? That you're incredibly biased and ignorant. Did you see the list of ridiculous demands blizzard gave KeSPA? You know what's something you don't know though? That the world of eSports needs KeSPA. Deal with it. You're so full of shit it's not worth arguing with you. T_____T
Many people would've realized this if they actually read and understood his quotes. Though somewhat true at times, he just has huge dislike for KeSPA, maybe going little overboard at times.
I don't know how you think KeSPA is somehow undeserving of the hate I'm giving, given that your sig is in Korean and you seem to know how things work in Korean scene, but I don't really care what you oldbies think of KeSPA. I just won't have KeSPA being viewed in positive light in front of SC2 newbies.
Not on my watch.
I'm not denying that KeSPA did the wrong things in the past nor ignoring them, and yes I know people hate KeSPA (on boards and everywhere etc).
I still don't understand why you're trying to pass your own idea to others though; stating the facts is alright and pointing them out is okay if its done in an unbiased manner. All I've gotten from your past is that you have something against KeSPA (maybe something personal, I don't know) and you're just trying to spread your own opinions on the forums, and trying to argue that those are facts.
Yes, I have something against KeSPA, ever since they treated Pioneers of SC2 as "Prize Hunters" and "Traitors."
Ever since Jaedong almost went teamless for good when he declared FA.
Ever since that Heater Power Outage.
Ever since their shitty site management regards to rankings. (almost no data on other competitive games, just BW, and even that's not done properly)
Ever since their abandonment of competitive WC3 scene in favor of BW scene. (They could've co-existed you know?)
Ever since they allowed Park Chan Soo to "retire" when he was involved in match-fixing scandal.
Ever since... oh fuck this, I'm not gonna bother listing all their wrong doings in 1 post.
Anyways, I've seen plenty of times when the loudest opinions become facts.
It happens on every forum.
I'm just going to make sure that pro-KeSPA won't be dominant opinion on SC2 board.
You know what's something you don't know though? That the world of eSports needs KeSPA. Deal with it.
Of course, the Google translate is rough, but it does say that SC2 and BW teams are attending, and there are 16 groups of people expected to attend or something like that.
I would be really interested in a more accurate translation or summary.
On April 26 2012 14:18 EchelonTee wrote: hopefully good news... this could either be epic or painful
Maybe painfully epic?
Or epically painful.
But despite all the negativity around kespa, you need to remember that they are not an independant corporation like gom or ogn, they are a Korean ESports Players Association, and even if they have some shady history, The sceen REALLY needs something like this to help give players, both korean and international, some kind of rights, and an organisation that will activel help the players when some injustice is done against them. (such as tournaments not paying out prize money, ect.)
ugh kespa... leaves mixed feelings man... why can't we have another organisation which is more representative across the board? these guys... i feel like trusting them is like knowingly repeating history.
according to article: blizzard: the esports that has been spreading across the world since its start in korea and we want to bring everyone together to commit towards moving esports culture forward. (take it up a notch, step it up)
only good things are coming. it seems blizzard wants to lead the way for everyone to work together and not repeat history. i'm sure blizzard realized giving gom sc2 monopoly was bad move for marketing and working with kespa will exponentially increase sc2's popularity in korea.
A new organisation for Joseph Blatter when he will be retired as the Fifa president ;Q
I really cant judge the situation. I just know that Kespas behaviour was bad and that they probably did some nasty stuff. But i dont know the details because i am not that active in the sc scene
The gathering on May 2nd will be extremely epic and kind of funny. Especially for the people who are witnessed the moment when KeSPA said SC is a public domain.
Yeah, I hope that good news comes out soon for all mankind (ofc, e-sports!). I wonder how GOM will handle all of these situations in the future beside the fact that the relationship between GOM and KeSPA-OGN is not that harmonious. Or maybe not.
I sincerely hope they are having a good relationship by now.
On April 28 2012 02:13 jinorazi wrote: according to article: blizzard: the esports that has been spreading across the world since its start in korea and we want to bring everyone together to commit towards moving esports culture forward. (take it up a notch, step it up)
only good things are coming. it seems blizzard wants to lead the way for everyone to work together and not repeat history. i'm sure blizzard realized giving gom sc2 monopoly was bad move for marketing and working with kespa will exponentially increase sc2's popularity in korea.
WeSPA incoming?
I certainly do not want Blizzard to be in charge of any of this. The way they tried to force their way into the existing eSports infrastructure for the sake of promoting their new game is a terrible precedence. BW and SC2 could have coexisted if it wasn't for Blizzard's actions. KeSPA never ignored Blizzard's IP on the game, but they fought for the IP rights of the derivative works (the actual product of their eSports efforts) and rightfully so.
The beauty of keeping eSports control out if the game developer is that it allows eSports to develop around those games that really deserve it. Either because they really are good competitive games (Brood War) or is a game players and audience actually like (LoL). Game companies sure can promote their games (Riot), but letting them decide what to play is a terrible conflict of interest between game quality and sales. It sets the scene way too easily for planned obscolescence (or prolonged milking via expansions.)
I want eSports to enrich the experience of a good conpetitive game; not for it to be reduced to a marketin ploy of the flavor of the year. For that to happen, independent organizations like KeSPA are needed.
On April 26 2012 14:17 Kiyo. wrote: Basically it's an announcement that Blizzard-Kespa-OGN-Gretech together are going to announce something related to Starcraft 2 on May 2nd KST.
On April 28 2012 12:24 rift wrote: It's a shame that despite all the good news, Koreans largely don't have an interest in watching or playing SC2.
Currently that is the case. Although I suspect with the BW pros moving over, an OGN SC2 league combined with the release of HotS I think the landscape will change a bit...
On April 28 2012 12:24 rift wrote: It's a shame that despite all the good news, Koreans largely don't have an interest in watching or playing SC2.
Currently that is the case. Although I suspect with the BW pros moving over, an OGN SC2 league combined with the release of HotS I think the landscape will change a bit...
why would it? yes there would be some that follow their favourite player. but this will die out sooner or later if people dont like 2 watch teh game.
On April 28 2012 12:24 rift wrote: It's a shame that despite all the good news, Koreans largely don't have an interest in watching or playing SC2.
Currently that is the case. Although I suspect with the BW pros moving over, an OGN SC2 league combined with the release of HotS I think the landscape will change a bit...
why would it? yes there would be some that follow their favourite player. but this will die out sooner or later if people dont like 2 watch teh game.
I didn't say anything about whether or not that could be sustained... that is yet to be seen. But at least at first I think there will be a lot of interest, even in Korea.
You are completely right in the sense that the new scene that we find ourselves in may not have staying power. Why that might happen comes down many factors, one of them probably being if HotS doesn't improve some of the design problems that WoL has.
On April 28 2012 12:24 rift wrote: It's a shame that despite all the good news, Koreans largely don't have an interest in watching or playing SC2.
Currently that is the case. Although I suspect with the BW pros moving over, an OGN SC2 league combined with the release of HotS I think the landscape will change a bit...
why would it? yes there would be some that follow their favourite player. but this will die out sooner or later if people dont like 2 watch teh game.
I didn't say anything about whether or not that could be sustained... that is yet to be seen. But at least at first I think there will be a lot of interest, even in Korea.
You are completely right in the sense that the new scene that we find ourselves in may not have staying power. Why that might happen comes down many factors, one of them probably being if HotS doesn't improve some of the design problems that WoL has.
Perhaps these organizations or their players will have input for HotS now that they're playing nice with Blizzard.
On April 28 2012 12:24 rift wrote: It's a shame that despite all the good news, Koreans largely don't have an interest in watching or playing SC2.
Currently that is the case. Although I suspect with the BW pros moving over, an OGN SC2 league combined with the release of HotS I think the landscape will change a bit...
why would it? yes there would be some that follow their favourite player. but this will die out sooner or later if people dont like 2 watch teh game.
Another problem is that even those who might follow their favourite players over to SC2 are losing interest, with the way things currently are in the off-season.
On April 28 2012 12:24 rift wrote: It's a shame that despite all the good news, Koreans largely don't have an interest in watching or playing SC2.
Currently that is the case. Although I suspect with the BW pros moving over, an OGN SC2 league combined with the release of HotS I think the landscape will change a bit...
why would it? yes there would be some that follow their favourite player. but this will die out sooner or later if people dont like 2 watch teh game.
Another problem is that even those who might follow their favourite players over to SC2 are losing interest, with the way things currently are in the off-season.
hopefully this meeting of organizations and proteams will provide a solution of some sort to the problem of SC2 being less fun to spectate(paraphrasing a recent article).
Note: some of those points are still in the workings and not at all final.
On April 29 2012 01:13 Mutality wrote: I hope they don't split the players like only sc2con players can play Gom and only Kespa players can play Ogn
It would be best this way, BW players haven't caught up yet since they just started playing.
On the contrary, playing against the current sc2 players, aka. against the best players, they would catch up so much more faster, than playing amongst themselves.
problem with the lack of foreign representation in most international events in SC2 is about the money. Foreign players won't train like Koreans if there is no financial reward for playing 12 hours of SC2 per day. there needs to be more money involved. But, it seems like in the world of SPorts, SC2 is a small little niche sport.
On April 30 2012 22:55 chatuka wrote: problem with the lack of foreign representation in most international events in SC2 is about the money. Foreign players won't train like Koreans if there is no financial reward for playing 12 hours of SC2 per day. there needs to be more money involved. But, it seems like in the world of SPorts, SC2 is a small little niche sport.
We shall grow our numbers ^^ teach all our children to play starcraft 2. Muwahahahahaha <3 sad but true. I would say as a community we grow every day though. strengthening the influence we have everywhere else.
I'm seriously praying that they can come to an arrangement wherein GOM becomes the new MBCGame, and the GSL the new MSL, which will coexist along with the OSL which (hopefully) will switch to SC2 after this season. Then, they can either combine GSTL and Proleague into one super team league, or they can keep it separate and have the champions of each league face each other to determine the overall teamleague champions.
I dont see Kespa and GOM for example working together closely, but i do see them spread their dates and tournaments around instead of going head to head. Will Kespa signed talent be allowed to compete in GOM tournaments? I really hope so, i think especially the GSTL will get immensly more entertaining as we would have up to 18 teams.
Considering the rather small popularity of SC2 in Korea, i dont think the various organisations nor Blizzard wants them to split an already small audience in half with different tournaments going on at the same time.
On April 30 2012 23:17 Tyree wrote: Whats everyone expecting?
I dont see Kespa and GOM for example working together closely, but i do see them spread their dates and tournaments around instead of going head to head. Will Kespa signed talent be allowed to compete in GOM tournaments? I really hope so, i think especially the GSTL will get immensly more entertaining as we would have up to 18 teams.
Considering the rather small popularity of SC2 in Korea, i dont think the various organisations nor Blizzard wants them to split an already small audience in half with different tournaments going on at the same time.
Thats what i am expecting at least.
i think it would be good and healthy to have two seperate leagues and a JOINT team league.. just my feeling, until the BW pros catch up!
On April 30 2012 23:17 Tyree wrote: Whats everyone expecting?
I dont see Kespa and GOM for example working together closely, but i do see them spread their dates and tournaments around instead of going head to head. Will Kespa signed talent be allowed to compete in GOM tournaments? I really hope so, i think especially the GSTL will get immensly more entertaining as we would have up to 18 teams.
Considering the rather small popularity of SC2 in Korea, i dont think the various organisations nor Blizzard wants them to split an already small audience in half with different tournaments going on at the same time.
Thats what i am expecting at least.
i think it would be good and healthy to have two seperate leagues and a JOINT team league.. just my feeling, until the BW pros catch up!
A separate league until they catch up? That's nonsense.. They had the chance to switch anytime they wanted for the past two years. They don't deserve any special treatment, or ways to earn money above the player base there is now. They can train and try to compete, and i wish them the best, but no special treatment.
On April 30 2012 23:17 Tyree wrote: Whats everyone expecting?
I dont see Kespa and GOM for example working together closely, but i do see them spread their dates and tournaments around instead of going head to head. Will Kespa signed talent be allowed to compete in GOM tournaments? I really hope so, i think especially the GSTL will get immensly more entertaining as we would have up to 18 teams.
Considering the rather small popularity of SC2 in Korea, i dont think the various organisations nor Blizzard wants them to split an already small audience in half with different tournaments going on at the same time.
Thats what i am expecting at least.
i think it would be good and healthy to have two seperate leagues and a JOINT team league.. just my feeling, until the BW pros catch up!
A separate league until they catch up? That's nonsense.. They had the chance to switch anytime they wanted for the past two years. They don't deserve any special treatment, or ways to earn money above the player base there is now. They can train and try to compete, and i wish them the best, but no special treatment.
KeSPA team players already make more money than current SC2 teams from their salaries.
On April 30 2012 23:17 Tyree wrote: Whats everyone expecting?
I dont see Kespa and GOM for example working together closely, but i do see them spread their dates and tournaments around instead of going head to head. Will Kespa signed talent be allowed to compete in GOM tournaments? I really hope so, i think especially the GSTL will get immensly more entertaining as we would have up to 18 teams.
Considering the rather small popularity of SC2 in Korea, i dont think the various organisations nor Blizzard wants them to split an already small audience in half with different tournaments going on at the same time.
Thats what i am expecting at least.
i think it would be good and healthy to have two seperate leagues and a JOINT team league.. just my feeling, until the BW pros catch up!
A separate league until they catch up? That's nonsense.. They had the chance to switch anytime they wanted for the past two years. They don't deserve any special treatment, or ways to earn money above the player base there is now. They can train and try to compete, and i wish them the best, but no special treatment.
If the next proleague is as rumored to be bw and sc2, would you like to watch why MVP was called 'woongjin terran'?
On April 30 2012 23:17 Tyree wrote: Whats everyone expecting?
I dont see Kespa and GOM for example working together closely, but i do see them spread their dates and tournaments around instead of going head to head. Will Kespa signed talent be allowed to compete in GOM tournaments? I really hope so, i think especially the GSTL will get immensly more entertaining as we would have up to 18 teams.
Considering the rather small popularity of SC2 in Korea, i dont think the various organisations nor Blizzard wants them to split an already small audience in half with different tournaments going on at the same time.
Thats what i am expecting at least.
i think it would be good and healthy to have two seperate leagues and a JOINT team league.. just my feeling, until the BW pros catch up!
A separate league until they catch up? That's nonsense.. They had the chance to switch anytime they wanted for the past two years. They don't deserve any special treatment, or ways to earn money above the player base there is now. They can train and try to compete, and i wish them the best, but no special treatment.
If the next proleague is as rumored to be bw and sc2, would you like to watch why MVP was called 'woongjin terran'?
Hahaha, oh wow the insults come up. And we'd get to see MKP play Protoss as well as Neastea play 2v2. We won't know what is going on till another 30 ish hours. The intent of the Kespa league (Proleague) seems to be mixed. Yes there may be different leagues but if you tried to combine the leagues you would get every BW game won by Kespa teams followed by every SC2 game won by GSTL teams till a few months were Kespa players will start winning SC2.
Don't expect any news for another 9-12 hours. It's an event being held during the daytime in Korea. Right now it's 1:30AM there, so no chance of anything happening anytime soon.
The only thing to really get out of that article from my skim reading:
That big first paragraph is just like a history lesson between the shitfest of Gretech/Blizzard vs KeSPA. Then it goes into speculations like 1) We know for sure by now that SC1 and SC2 proleague is coming up as the teams have been informed as such, although no official release of this has happened. 2) Biggest worry seems to be that if Proleague picked up SC2, what will happen to GSL/GSTL? Will they serve as competition or what?
I thought those were really the more 'important' parts, although everything here is speculation.
There's so little hype because everyone wants to hate on Destiny >.> Seriously? Gook isn't even that big of a deal. Only Korean Americans know that because of that one movie that mentioned gooks (I can't remember, it's like road something I think) and after that it got people saying OH IT"S RACIST.
Excited excited excited. I forgot that it's tommorrow today in Korea. Thank you TL for keeping me up to date with Korean Time. Doubt it'll be announced at 5 AM though
On May 02 2012 04:52 DomiNater wrote: Is anyone else excited to see what kind of Map's KeSPa will make? I wonder if they will start off with their own map pool in the first SC2 Proleague.
Haven't ever thought of that. The more mapmakers, the better!
On May 02 2012 05:44 Zidane wrote: How long from now is the announcement?
No one knows. Given the KST clock in the top right corner says it's quarter to 6 in the morning over there, I'd guess not for another 5-6 hours at the least.
The announcement will come during GSL tonight. They will announce foreigners are no longer allowed to play Sc2 in korea and boot Naniwa out of the studio mid-game.
I've only played about an hour of BW and watched a a VOD or two, and as a big SC2 fan, I still feel kind of sad that the chapter is turning. Something about the history of it all.
This thread is full of people asking the same questions. Just wait and when something does happen it will get posted in this thread or somewhere else you'll notice. Patience guys! If you need info on timezones then everything you need is one google search away.
On May 02 2012 07:00 Kordox wrote: This thread is full of people asking the same questions. Just wait and when something does happen it will get posted in this thread or somewhere else you'll notice. Patience guys! If you need info on timezones then everything you need is one google search away.
On May 02 2012 07:00 LuckyFool wrote: so if we're gonna say mid morning or something we're probably only a few hours away now.
I would say within 6-8 hours from now...
Well I'm going to be honest and say that mkp and Prime manager are both getting ready to leave for the press conference.
My future as a progamer is dwindling down by the hours. only a few hours left till my dreams and goals are shattered in one final blow. Its been fun while it lasted :'(
On May 02 2012 07:00 LuckyFool wrote: so if we're gonna say mid morning or something we're probably only a few hours away now.
I would say within 6-8 hours from now...
Well I'm going to be honest and say that mkp and Prime manager are both getting ready to leave for the press conference.
My future as a progamer is dwindling down by the hours. only a few hours left till my dreams and goals are shattered in one final blow. Its been fun while it lasted :'(
Why do you think that your dreams and goals will be shattered? I hope not!
On May 02 2012 07:21 BathTubNZ wrote: I guess sooner rather than later if the Prime guys are getting ready to head off.
they just left 5 mins ago.
from what I was just told by another sc2 coach (not prime) that he doesn't even kno what is going to happen, only something is going on. his words were "we will survive though,".
On May 02 2012 07:21 BathTubNZ wrote: I guess sooner rather than later if the Prime guys are getting ready to head off.
they just left 5 mins ago.
from what I was just told by another sc2 coach (not prime) that he doesn't even kno what is going to happen, only something is going on. his words were "we will survive though,".
Most likely news will come out still in many hours time. It's a meeting after all, so decisions won't be made at the outset but at the conclusion.
So for those waiting around, probably come back in still some hours from now. Tomorrow to be sure hehe.
There's also a very very real possibility that the only news we'll get out of today is someone saying "The meeting went well blah blah cooperation blah blah stay tuned for more announcements." That's all I expect out of today, any bombshells will probably hit a little bit after.
Also real potential that this might be the first of a few meetings.
Guys... people don't do meetings at 8am, just go to sleep if you need too lol. Come back tomorrow, it's only probably going to be an announcement of OGN/KeSPA having rights to broadcast SC2 or something.
This is pretty exciting. Altho I think it might just be announcement that OGN and Gomtv have come to some agreement on on broadcasting rights and some vague statements about future proleague seasons with mentions of their degree of partnership with Blizzard and Kespa. Could also be some dates for next proleague tho, that would be very interesting news!
On May 02 2012 08:57 carloselcoco wrote: So it is confirmed that the announcement is the transition from SC1 to SC2!
We kinda already knew that. They wouldn't be calling GOM if it weren't for SC2.
Just there's a lot of details that we're hoping to get from the press conference: Is this the end of BW PL? When will PL start? Are KeSPA players going to join GSL next season? Will SC2 teams be allowed to play in BW proleague? Will foreigners, those without KeSPA licenses and amateurs be allowed to join the next season of OSL?
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
Right, but the specifics are foggy. When will Flash be in GSL? When will proleague start? etc.
Most likely separate leagues like OSL and MSL. My hope is GSL and OSL will be integrated, but more likely they will be separate for the first year as the BW players get more acclimated with the game. I think I'll be more excited to see the races the BW pros choose, Fantasy zerg is most intriguing.
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
Right, but the specifics are foggy. When will Flash be in GSL? When will proleague start? etc.
Most likely separate leagues like OSL and MSL. My hope is GSL and OSL will be integrated, but more likely they will be separate for the first year as the BW players get more acclimated with the game. I think I'll be more excited to see the races the BW pros choose, Fantasy zerg is most intriguing.
Yeah well bisu choosing Terran isn't intriguing, its a damn tragedy ;_;
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
Right, but the specifics are foggy. When will Flash be in GSL? When will proleague start? etc.
Most likely separate leagues like OSL and MSL. My hope is GSL and OSL will be integrated, but more likely they will be separate for the first year as the BW players get more acclimated with the game. I think I'll be more excited to see the races the BW pros choose, Fantasy zerg is most intriguing.
MSL doesn't exist for gaming anymore so doubt them
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
Right, but the specifics are foggy. When will Flash be in GSL? When will proleague start? etc.
Most likely separate leagues like OSL and MSL. My hope is GSL and OSL will be integrated, but more likely they will be separate for the first year as the BW players get more acclimated with the game. I think I'll be more excited to see the races the BW pros choose, Fantasy zerg is most intriguing.
MSL doesn't exist for gaming anymore so doubt them
Yeah
MBCGame died quite awhile ago. MBC went for a bigger focus on kpop
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
I should have clarified this more but "transition" is cute korean for like "transition into the future, a new era of dreams and possibilities". That sort of korean tag line stuff.
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
I should have clarified this more but "transition" is cute korean for like "transition into the future, a new era of dreams and possibilities". That sort of korean tag line stuff.
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
Right, but the specifics are foggy. When will Flash be in GSL? When will proleague start? etc.
Most likely separate leagues like OSL and MSL. My hope is GSL and OSL will be integrated, but more likely they will be separate for the first year as the BW players get more acclimated with the game. I think I'll be more excited to see the races the BW pros choose, Fantasy zerg is most intriguing.
MSL doesn't exist for gaming anymore so doubt them
Yeah
MBCGame died quite awhile ago. MBC went for a bigger focus on kpop
I said like MSL, not that MSL still exists. GSL will take the place of MSL from now on, and will also carry the "secondary" league title
On May 02 2012 08:47 xBenderx wrote: TeamLiquid @TeamLiquidnet
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference will come from @Teamliquidlive so as not to blow up your twitter. Give it a follow!
Coverage of the SC2 ESports Transition Press Conference
I think we assumed correctly.
I should have clarified this more but "transition" is cute korean for like "transition into the future, a new era of dreams and possibilities". That sort of korean tag line stuff.
This makes more sense now TY!
In other words, it is probably a co-operation, right? Not like SC1 is going to die anyways
I'm curious about how high of a priority will current BW players/teams put into "foreign" SC2 tournaments. I would think KESPA would want the players to be well rested for each and every scheduled team game and thus they probably won't be able to travel unless it's in between seasons. Will be interesting to see how that works out.
On May 02 2012 11:36 Hrrrrm wrote: I'm curious about how high of a priority will current BW players/teams put into "foreign" SC2 tournaments. I would think KESPA would want the players to be well rested for each and every scheduled team game and thus they probably won't be able to travel unless it's in between seasons. Will be interesting to see how that works out.
I think that worry will also carry over to the GSL/GSTL teams as well once they become integrated into the SC2 Proleague in October. I recall reading a blog from FXOBoSs saying how if FXO participates in Proleague, the busy schedule would make it extremely difficult for his players to participate in foreign tournaments to the degree that they do nowadays.
On May 02 2012 09:58 dignitas.merz wrote: So excited for this! OGN Starleague and Courage system to SC2 please!
no no no!
Courage system to sc2 would kill all foreign particpation in Korea. Thats what we don't want.
Don't worry, Code A qualifiers pretty much do that already. I kind of expect foreigners will still receive a seed.
Or they could introduce a global courage system with tournaments held in the various regions. There will likely still be still discrepancy, but if players wanted to win the prestige, they will know where to play.
Here's the official hybrid integration process and solution:
Instead of playing alternating sets of BW and SC2, players will play matches between BW and SC2. We believe this will make for interesting games and bring both communities closer together.
Unit sounds and music will differ for each player and we will implement a new observer UI that allows the spectator or referee to choose between BW or SC2 music.
Our talks about this have all been fluff and rainbows until Dustin Browder insisted on adding at least 4 sets of Destructible Rocks on each tournament map. We gave him a large 4 piece puzzle to color in and as you all can see, he finished it while we agreed on the terms we presented you today.
We cannot tell you details or dates but we love us, each other and you! More information soon to come when Dustin is done coloring the huge broken heart that says "BW Fans". Thank you!
On May 02 2012 12:18 finalboss2 wrote: I just don't see Kespa giving a shit about MLG or IPL
One of the reasons BW is dying and sponsors aren't there is because they didn't go outside Korea. KESPA needs to go outside Korea.
You'd have to be dumb to think Kespa isn't aware of the money to be made with the foreign scene. Esports is no longer a niche but a growing industry and not siezing an opportunity to get in deep while it's early would suggest they have real idea about what they're doing.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
Have to wait on that. Like others said, this whole conference was PR and fluff. Things we've already got wind of.
There are still many pressing issues with regards to Courage, Pro Gamer Licenses, system and schedule of PL, how OGN will intergrate the leagues and like you said streaming.
I understand the tech and I understand it's another means for players and personalities to make more money. I'm sort of against player streams because of the overexposure and they lose their mystique as players.
There are a lot and I mean a lot of questions still. I'm sure Twitch and Own3d are already planning this stuff out.
I wonder how policy will change in KeSPA, but I hope they stay away from all the bush league shit we see because there is a lot of it and hopefully bring more legitimacy in the scene.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
Don't like KESPA at all, don't want them near sc2, but this is still exciting info nonetheless, we will see if it can all come full circle and take off with the release of HoTS.
A lot of pressure on blizzard now, if they deliver, the scene will blossom.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
there is no incentive for the players to stream even if kespa allows them to. they dont need the money from streaming and they rather not leak their plays.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
there is no incentive for the players to stream even if kespa allows them to. they dont need the money from streaming and they rather not leak their plays.
you do know that you can pros can stream simply to gain more fans, interact with current fans, etc. also, i think a lot of people in the scene recognize that most pros dont leak secret builds or strategies while streaming, rather they use a lot of generic builds and plays.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
there is no incentive for the players to stream even if kespa allows them to. they dont need the money from streaming and they rather not leak their plays.
you do know that you can pros can stream simply to gain more fans, interact with current fans, etc. also, i think a lot of people in the scene recognize that most pros dont leak secret builds or strategies while streaming, rather they use a lot of generic builds and plays.
It's not so much that top pro gamers doesn't want to reveal their secret strategies, but they don't want to reveal their weaknesses. If Jaedong started streaming and Flash could just hop on his stream along with the rest of the KT team and in detail just break down his play and analyze every single weakness from Jaedong's own PoV, then Flash wouldn't just win, he would absolutely demolish Jaedong because he knows exactly what to do.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
there is no incentive for the players to stream even if kespa allows them to. they dont need the money from streaming and they rather not leak their plays.
you do know that you can pros can stream simply to gain more fans, interact with current fans, etc. also, i think a lot of people in the scene recognize that most pros dont leak secret builds or strategies while streaming, rather they use a lot of generic builds and plays.
I doubt they would have the time or energy to stream ontop of their practice schedule, which will be different than what other teamhouses do now.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
there is no incentive for the players to stream even if kespa allows them to. they dont need the money from streaming and they rather not leak their plays.
you do know that you can pros can stream simply to gain more fans, interact with current fans, etc. also, i think a lot of people in the scene recognize that most pros dont leak secret builds or strategies while streaming, rather they use a lot of generic builds and plays.
It's not so much that top pro gamers doesn't want to reveal their secret strategies, but they don't want to reveal their weaknesses. If Jaedong started streaming and Flash could just hop on his stream along with the rest of the KT team and in detail just break down his play and analyze every single weakness from Jaedong's own PoV, then Flash wouldn't just win, he would absolutely demolish Jaedong because he knows exactly what to do.
oh i forgot to mention this part in my first post. i was talking about the lower level players still affiliated with KeSPA having the ability the stream, not TBLS, because those players have obvious reasons not to stream as you already mentioned.
On May 02 2012 11:54 JOJOsc2news wrote: Here's the official hybrid integration process and solution:
Instead of playing alternating sets of BW and SC2, players will play matches between BW and SC2. We believe this will make for interesting games and bring both communities closer together.
Unit sounds and music will differ for each player and we will implement a new observer UI that allows the spectator or referee to choose between BW or SC2 music.
Our talks about this have all been fluff and rainbows until Dustin Browder insisted on adding at least 4 sets of Destructible Rocks on each tournament map. We gave him a large 4 piece puzzle to color in and as you all can see, he finished it while we agreed on the terms we presented you today.
We cannot tell you details or dates but we love us, each other and you! More information soon to come when Dustin is done coloring the huge broken heart that says "BW Fans". Thank you!
; )
This is so awesome hahaha!
Will foreign players be allowed to compete freely in the new tournaments or will it just be korean based?
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
there is no incentive for the players to stream even if kespa allows them to. they dont need the money from streaming and they rather not leak their plays.
you do know that you can pros can stream simply to gain more fans, interact with current fans, etc. also, i think a lot of people in the scene recognize that most pros dont leak secret builds or strategies while streaming, rather they use a lot of generic builds and plays.
It's not so much that top pro gamers doesn't want to reveal their secret strategies, but they don't want to reveal their weaknesses. If Jaedong started streaming and Flash could just hop on his stream along with the rest of the KT team and in detail just break down his play and analyze every single weakness from Jaedong's own PoV, then Flash wouldn't just win, he would absolutely demolish Jaedong because he knows exactly what to do.
Considering SC2 replays of those pros would instantly become available on all websites ever, nd anyone playing them on ladder would immediately see at least their build orders, there really isn't that much of a difference if they do stream, interact with their fans, gain more recognition with the current SC2 fanbase, and increase their brand.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Even if they can't stream if they choose to practice with the current SC2 champs who do stream we will still see them. Also in foreign tournaments we can see their replays to the fullest. I can't wait to jizz in my pants when I get to meet Flash and Jaedong (here to hoping Nal_Ra tags along) at an MLG.
I have a feeling that HOTS will be released before this year OCT for the full SC2 PL. by then the BW pros will be used to Sc2 and HOTS will reset the game. And will also advertise HOTS to the max on its release.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Blizzard owns the intellectual property. I can pretty much guarantee that blizzard is the reason why the switch to SC2 is 100%. You can have all the money in the world at your disposal; however, if you don't own a product, you are severely limited with what you can do with it.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Blizzard owns the intellectual property. I can pretty much guarantee that blizzard is the reason why the switch to SC2 is 100%. You can have all the money in the world at your disposal; however, if you don't own a product, you are severely limited with what you can do with it.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Samsung is pretty big
As are the Telecom companies backing KT and SKT1. There's a lot of money backing KESPA.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Blizzard owns the intellectual property. I can pretty much guarantee that blizzard is the reason why the switch to SC2 is 100%. You can have all the money in the world at your disposal; however, if you don't own a product, you are severely limited with what you can do with it.
kespa gave the players their jobs as progamers.
And without a game to play, they are no longer progamers.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Blizzard owns the intellectual property. I can pretty much guarantee that blizzard is the reason why the switch to SC2 is 100%. You can have all the money in the world at your disposal; however, if you don't own a product, you are severely limited with what you can do with it.
Didn't it take a while from release before the sc2 korean teams to let their players stream? And they prevented them all from playing in NASL season 2 last minute. Blizzard didn't stop those things why would they prevent KESPA from doing anything similar?
Kespa might have some leverage during negotiations with the threat to just broadcast LoL instead. I doubt Blizzard would like that they want to get those 4.5 million Korean buyers of sc1 to upgrade not to have them play and watch a competitors product for the next 10 years.
And if LoL doesn't work out MBC showed there is always k-pop!
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Pretty sure Samsung alone is much bigger than Vivendi.Kespa is backed up by major corporation such as Samsung,KT,SKT and etc. Everyone knows this already.
But Blizzard are the ones who create and own SC2. So yeah they probably hold the most power and profited the most from the SC2 e-sports scene.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Blizzard owns the intellectual property. I can pretty much guarantee that blizzard is the reason why the switch to SC2 is 100%. You can have all the money in the world at your disposal; however, if you don't own a product, you are severely limited with what you can do with it.
Didn't it take a while from release before the sc2 korean teams to let their players stream? And they prevented them all from playing in NASL season 2 last minute. Blizzard didn't stop those things why would they prevent KESPA from doing anything similar?
Kespa might have some leverage during negotiations with the threat to just broadcast LoL instead. I doubt Blizzard would like that they want to get those 4.5 million Korean buyers of sc1 to upgrade not to have them play and watch a competitors product for the next 10 years.
And if LoL doesn't work out MBC showed there is always k-pop!
There was no organization preventing SC2 koreans from streaming. I am pretty sure it just took awhile for them to realize how popular streaming was outside of korea.
I think NASL is a joke, therefore I can not comment on that since i don't follow. However, once again, up until now there was no ruling party over SC2 players, so no company/organization could have prevented koreans from entering NASL. Who is 'They'?
KeSPA knows how much of a following RTS has and they want to make sure they are a prominent piece moving forward. Do you not remember that Blizzard required negotiations with kespa in relation to BW leagues a year ago? Blizzard *owns* BW, not KeSPA. Therefore if Blizzard says kespa isn't allowed to run a BW league, then they must obey or face legal consequences. My thought is that Blizzard gave KeSPA/OGN an ultimatum: Either switch to SC2, or lose all Blizz RTS rights. I would say that is pretty damn good leverage.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Pretty sure Samsung alone is much bigger than Vivendi.Kespa is backed up by major corporation such as Samsung,KT,SKT and etc. Everyone knows this already.
But Blizzard are the ones who create and own SC2. So yeah they probably hold the most power and profited the most from the SC2 e-sports scene.
Blizzard also has the most to lose if LoL becomes sc1's replacement instead of sc2 in Korea. I don't think you can say that blizzard has complete control.
For example this is what Kespa claims is what blizzard originally wanted.
However, Blizzard has asserted not the right as a copyright but unreasonable demands as following.
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA
This is apparently Gom's final offer before the lawsuit.
The final offer is as follows
Contest License Fees: 1 won per year Broadcasting License Fees: 100,000,000 won per season (up to 3 seasons a year) Length: One Year Ownership Rights: The ownership of the broadcasting material created under this contract will be split 50:50 between the Broadcasting station and Gretech/Blizzard. Logo and Branding: The Starcraft: Broodwar logo and Blizzard's logo must be clearly visible in the stage, the set, and in broadcasted material IP rights: Every license needs a clause acknowledging Blizzard for creating the game and for the ownership of the IP. Sub-license: Gretech will have the rights to approve all sub-license contracts. The revenue from the sub-licenses will be fairly split between Gretech and the Broadcasting Station Sponsor: All revenue from Sponsorships will be the property of the broadcasting station Approval: Whenever you use the Intellectual Property rights, you need approval from Blizzard and Gretech
- What is the Blizzard's IP rights requirements? What about the derivative works and reselling broadcasting rights?
▲ I cannot answer these questions in depth as these are covered in an NDA, so please be understanding of that. Anyway, what I can tell you is that all derivative works (such as broadcasted shows) using StarCraft: Brood War, their IP rights will belong to KeSPA and OGN-MBCGame. It is also possible for them to take these contents, then sell them as they see fit for various platforms they might be planning. However, there is the requirement that if they wish to open up a new SC: BW league elsewhere, they must negotiate with Blizzard again.
[11:38] If there was an IP right issue over the secondary contents, what happens?
Paul Sams: the original contents belong to us. This is something agreed upon by other 3 organizations as well. Broadcasting rights and its contents will be owned by each broadcasting company. This is a win-win scenario for all players.
Sounds like Kespa got what they wanted. If blizzard had the most power would they not have given themselves 100% ownership of broadcasting rights?
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Blizzard owns the intellectual property. I can pretty much guarantee that blizzard is the reason why the switch to SC2 is 100%. You can have all the money in the world at your disposal; however, if you don't own a product, you are severely limited with what you can do with it.
Didn't it take a while from release before the sc2 korean teams to let their players stream? And they prevented them all from playing in NASL season 2 last minute. Blizzard didn't stop those things why would they prevent KESPA from doing anything similar?
Kespa might have some leverage during negotiations with the threat to just broadcast LoL instead. I doubt Blizzard would like that they want to get those 4.5 million Korean buyers of sc1 to upgrade not to have them play and watch a competitors product for the next 10 years.
And if LoL doesn't work out MBC showed there is always k-pop!
There was no organization preventing SC2 koreans from streaming. I am pretty sure it just took awhile for them to realize how popular streaming was outside of korea.
I think NASL is a joke, therefore I can not comment on that since i don't follow. However, once again, up until now there was no ruling party over SC2 players, so no company/organization could have prevented koreans from entering NASL. Who is 'They'?
KeSPA knows how much of a following RTS has and they want to make sure they are a prominent piece moving forward. Do you not remember that Blizzard required negotiations with kespa in relation to BW leagues a year ago? Blizzard *owns* BW, not KeSPA. Therefore if Blizzard says kespa isn't allowed to run a BW league, then they must obey or face legal consequences. My thought is that Blizzard gave KeSPA/OGN an ultimatum: Either switch to SC2, or lose all Blizz RTS rights. I would say that is pretty damn good leverage.
Look at what the search function found!
According to DongRaeGu, " I am sorry, I can't begin streaming again. I belong to the SC2 Association (E/N: this) and they prefer progamers don't stream."
They is the Korean teams who all decided to keep their players from playing in NASL. (possibly organized together as the sc2con organization they had at the time that ended up disbanding)
Blizzard couldn't keep the financially weak sc2 teams playing nice so what will they do against Kespa?
Blizzard already tried to get rid of all broadcast rights of Kespa that was the entire lawsuit when sc2 released. Its to late to do that again now and there is no point because they can't find sponsors anyways bw will be gone in a year either way.
But you really think blizzard is fine letting Kespa broadcast LoL exclusively? Because that is what they'd do if Blizzard played hardball like that.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Pretty sure Samsung alone is much bigger than Vivendi.Kespa is backed up by major corporation such as Samsung,KT,SKT and etc. Everyone knows this already.
But Blizzard are the ones who create and own SC2. So yeah they probably hold the most power and profited the most from the SC2 e-sports scene.
Blizzard also has the most to lose if LoL becomes sc1's replacement instead of sc2 in Korea. I don't think you can say that blizzard has complete control.
For example this is what Kespa claims is what blizzard originally wanted.
However, Blizzard has asserted not the right as a copyright but unreasonable demands as following.
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA
Contest License Fees: 1 won per year Broadcasting License Fees: 100,000,000 won per season (up to 3 seasons a year) Length: One Year Ownership Rights: The ownership of the broadcasting material created under this contract will be split 50:50 between the Broadcasting station and Gretech/Blizzard. Logo and Branding: The Starcraft: Broodwar logo and Blizzard's logo must be clearly visible in the stage, the set, and in broadcasted material IP rights: Every license needs a clause acknowledging Blizzard for creating the game and for the ownership of the IP. Sub-license: Gretech will have the rights to approve all sub-license contracts. The revenue from the sub-licenses will be fairly split between Gretech and the Broadcasting Station Sponsor: All revenue from Sponsorships will be the property of the broadcasting station Approval: Whenever you use the Intellectual Property rights, you need approval from Blizzard and Gretech
- What is the Blizzard's IP rights requirements? What about the derivative works and reselling broadcasting rights?
▲ I cannot answer these questions in depth as these are covered in an NDA, so please be understanding of that. Anyway, what I can tell you is that all derivative works (such as broadcasted shows) using StarCraft: Brood War, their IP rights will belong to KeSPA and OGN-MBCGame. It is also possible for them to take these contents, then sell them as they see fit for various platforms they might be planning. However, there is the requirement that if they wish to open up a new SC: BW league elsewhere, they must negotiate with Blizzard again.
[11:38] If there was an IP right issue over the secondary contents, what happens?
Paul Sams: the original contents belong to us. This is something agreed upon by other 3 organizations as well. Broadcasting rights and its contents will be owned by each broadcasting company. This is a win-win scenario for all players.
Sounds like Kespa got what they wanted. If blizzard had the most power would they not have given themselves 100% ownership of broadcasting rights?
Very interesting observation! Seems as if LoL has forced peoples hands on this issue.
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Pretty sure Samsung alone is much bigger than Vivendi.Kespa is backed up by major corporation such as Samsung,KT,SKT and etc. Everyone knows this already.
But Blizzard are the ones who create and own SC2. So yeah they probably hold the most power and profited the most from the SC2 e-sports scene.
Blizzard also has the most to lose if LoL becomes sc1's replacement instead of sc2 in Korea. I don't think you can say that blizzard has complete control.
For example this is what Kespa claims is what blizzard originally wanted.
However, Blizzard has asserted not the right as a copyright but unreasonable demands as following.
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA
This is apparently Gom's final offer before the lawsuit.
The final offer is as follows
Contest License Fees: 1 won per year Broadcasting License Fees: 100,000,000 won per season (up to 3 seasons a year) Length: One Year Ownership Rights: The ownership of the broadcasting material created under this contract will be split 50:50 between the Broadcasting station and Gretech/Blizzard. Logo and Branding: The Starcraft: Broodwar logo and Blizzard's logo must be clearly visible in the stage, the set, and in broadcasted material IP rights: Every license needs a clause acknowledging Blizzard for creating the game and for the ownership of the IP. Sub-license: Gretech will have the rights to approve all sub-license contracts. The revenue from the sub-licenses will be fairly split between Gretech and the Broadcasting Station Sponsor: All revenue from Sponsorships will be the property of the broadcasting station Approval: Whenever you use the Intellectual Property rights, you need approval from Blizzard and Gretech
- What is the Blizzard's IP rights requirements? What about the derivative works and reselling broadcasting rights?
▲ I cannot answer these questions in depth as these are covered in an NDA, so please be understanding of that. Anyway, what I can tell you is that all derivative works (such as broadcasted shows) using StarCraft: Brood War, their IP rights will belong to KeSPA and OGN-MBCGame. It is also possible for them to take these contents, then sell them as they see fit for various platforms they might be planning. However, there is the requirement that if they wish to open up a new SC: BW league elsewhere, they must negotiate with Blizzard again.
[11:38] If there was an IP right issue over the secondary contents, what happens?
Paul Sams: the original contents belong to us. This is something agreed upon by other 3 organizations as well. Broadcasting rights and its contents will be owned by each broadcasting company. This is a win-win scenario for all players.
Sounds like Kespa got what they wanted. If blizzard had the most power would they not have given themselves 100% ownership of broadcasting rights?
Very interesting observation! Seems as if LoL has forced peoples hands on this issue.
LoL, the savior of SC2? Oh wait, he's about to start playing starcraft 2!
On May 03 2012 03:59 GodOfWar wrote: Predicting the current SC2 Stars to still be on top of the game at the end of year. + Show Spoiler +
ForGG was already a epic fail
Apparently u didn't read The Elephant article here in Team Liquid.
You gotta understand that all the SC2 "Pros" were mediocre players in BW to say the least. I don't think that Flash, Bisu, etc will do anything until the end of the year, but as soon as HotS kicks in expect them to catch up on the 2 year gap they had.
i'am sc2 fan "godofwar" although i know that sc2 is much easier than bw, that is a fact. you must be delusional to think otherwise or you are trolling.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
it's not like there is some magical thing about bw progamers that make them better. It's that they have the practice regiment and correct mentalities to improve/perfect play. All progamers play 8-12 hours a day, but some probably "grind" out 4 hours of it and are only able to maximally focus for 4-8 hours, while some focus, learn, and perfect for all 12 hours of practice. Doesn't even have to be conscious, just it'd hard to play 12 hours a day of something and keep your focus on it the entire time.
Earlier on in sc2 people lacked fundamental mechanics, but since that time it's cleaned up quite a bit.
It's not like any BW progamer is going to come in and be "hey look at me control 40 marines better than an sc2 korean pro!" because that's not going to happen because of the way the game works (elaborated more below). The main thing BW pros can really bring is consistency and decision making (as well as some of the best coaching staffs/players in the world to analyze play).
And by all means sc2 is easier mechanically and is not any more strategic, but just because it's easier doesn't mean it doesn't still have a pretty high skill cap. SC2 is probably more akin to some other really fast games where at the highest level of play it's about playing well in an extremely small time window (since sc2 is more ball vs ball and armies die faster, the most important thing is to win that engagement). By fast I mean like some FPS or whatever where you shoot and die really fast--they'll have really high skill cap but what determines the skill cap is a much smaller time window than BW.
On strategy note, I as a bw fan, would say it's less strategic in general, as most of bw is about map positioning while game design of sc2 encourages "ball vs ball" unit compositions with the creep mechanic [zerg expands closeby as opposed to far away and defends creep], warp ins making expanding far away difficult, protoss encouraged to go for colossus or templar/archon death ball, etc. Sc2 is more about coming out on top in 1 big fight and preparing for the big fight rather than having true map awareness/dominance/multitask that BW is about. It's a totally different game.
One would think micro would be elevated in sc2 because of how fast things are (as one could say in a mechanically demanding FPS game with low life points) but the unit clumping and game engine makes the micro be more of a "1a" than anything else and limit micro from being top tier for humans (look at the sc2 ai that can micro perfectly). At the very least micro isn't any more important in sc2 than in sc1, yet most of the mechanics for having map control/awareness/multitask is removed (and that is what sc:bw progamers are good at).
Maybe I'll be proven wrong as time passes on these points, but macro in sc2 is certainly easier and the game isn't more strategic nor microable. Most of the mechanics of bw map positioning (high ground, unit designs with lurkers, dark swarm, mines, tanks, etc) are removed. Sc2 doesn't offer a single thing better than sc:bw, except that zvz can be more diverse in unit compositions. Maybe PvP. Obviously tanks are there but it's generally different compared to sc:bw.
the bw gamers better at unit compositions/decision making will do better, compared to some bw players that rely on their multitask/mechanics, because that is mainly what sc2 is about
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Hot Bid will be on tonight to reveal some exclusive news on TSL4, and TeamLiquid EIC Waxangel and Torch of OGN, former GOM will be on to talk about the new deal between Kespa/OGN/Blizzard. Plus Naniwa losing to MVP, HotS at MLG Anaheim and more! Waxangel will also be on tonight live from Korea! Goes live in 20 minutes on http://www.Twitch.tv/OneMoreGameTV
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
You do realize that EVERY GSL champ was at one point atleast a BW semi-pro(Training in pro team houses etc.) So I don't know why people say BW pro's won't dominant... they already are.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
You do realize that EVERY GSL champ was at one point atleast a BW semi-pro(Training in pro team houses etc.) So I don't know why people say BW pro's won't dominant... they already are.
Except for Polt who is the odd one out as a former WC3 player. Otherwise, you are right in that all the other GSL champs are former BW pros or semi-pros, though I'm not too sure about Jjakji although it can be assumed that he played a good amount of BW in the past.
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
You do realize that EVERY GSL champ was at one point atleast a BW semi-pro(Training in pro team houses etc.) So I don't know why people say BW pro's won't dominant... they already are.
Except for Polt who is the odd one out as a former WC3 player. Otherwise, you are right in that all the other GSL champs are former BW pros or semi-pros, though I'm not too sure about Jjakji although it can be assumed that he played a good amount of BW in the past.
Ahh I completely forgot about the super tournament! My bad T.T... Though I stand by my main point. 98% of the GSL champs were former BW pros xD
And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Is stephano bad because he hasnt won a GSL? How many times has he tried to win GSL? Im pretty sure hes beaten probably most of those BW players so far. Without playing BW much. if at all. (that i know of)
Every old BW pro ( NaDa, July, Boxer, fOrGG ) got into code S at one point. I would not call this failling.. Noone expected fOrGG to come and win championships after championships. Maybe naives thought that. The guy is doing well, he's in the GSL, in the range of players who are definitly code S material.
lol how come so many ppl posted before his code S matches how he will easily win everything because he was a former BW pro?
Because the sc2 forum is a whirlpool of ignorance?
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Thats my point. Its not BW that makes a player good. Its RTS experience. If someone who played AOE for 12 years 10 hours a day, then switched (give him a year to adjust) he could make a run as well. Saying "OMG BW PROS WILL DOMINATE 100% ONCE THIS HAPPENS" is just ridiculous to assume that BW = GOD PLAYER, when, stephano and naniwa show it doesnt.
Theyll have their ups and downs like everyone else. Boxer was the best in BW for a long time, now hes a consistant code A player. Just saying. (Not to knock on him, love him)
I don't get why ppl debating about BW Pros will be the best in SCII or not.
It's freaking decided already, we will see them in a month. Why don't we all w8 and see if the theory is true?
And I hope they will do well, especially TBLS, they are the best of best. I can't stand watching them lose to any of current SCII pros, even if those are the top of the world (in SCII) right now. It just doesn't feel right to me.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Thats my point. Its not BW that makes a player good. Its RTS experience. If someone who played AOE for 12 years 10 hours a day, then switched (give him a year to adjust) he could make a run as well. Saying "OMG BW PROS WILL DOMINATE 100% ONCE THIS HAPPENS" is just ridiculous to assume that BW = GOD PLAYER, when, stephano and naniwa show it doesnt.
Theyll have their ups and downs like everyone else. Boxer was the best in BW for a long time, now hes a consistant code A player. Just saying. (Not to knock on him, love him)
Even when other RTS games had pretty big competitive scenes it was quite accepted that the skill level of those games were no where near that of BW. Just playing BW doesn't make one amazing and not every pro is going to be better than current players, but it is safe bet when one is a part of the most competitive e-sport playing arguably the highest skill level game they will be good in SC2.
Boxer hasn't been good in BW since 2005 yet he has been top3 in international tournaments and has made Code S.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
i think these brood war pros and legends will have a hard time at first because unlike brood war, sc2 takes less mechanics and its all u to decision making. Well i dont know . Jaedong was well known for his micro, macro, and his perfect mechanics. Flash was well known for a tank. both awesome players, but i just think they will have a harder time in sc2 than brood war.
On May 03 2012 11:36 GoldEagle wrote: i think these brood war pros and legends will have a hard time at first because unlike brood war, sc2 takes less mechanics and its all u to decision making. Well i dont know . Jaedong was well known for his micro, macro, and his perfect mechanics. Flash was well known for a tank. both awesome players, but i just think they will have a harder time in sc2 than brood war.
jaedong is actually more well known for his decision making and mental attributes than his micro, macro and mechanics.
On May 03 2012 11:36 GoldEagle wrote: i think these brood war pros and legends will have a hard time at first because unlike brood war, sc2 takes less mechanics and its all u to decision making. Well i dont know . Jaedong was well known for his micro, macro, and his perfect mechanics. Flash was well known for a tank. both awesome players, but i just think they will have a harder time in sc2 than brood war.
jaedong is actually more well known for his decision making and mental attributes than his micro, macro and mechanics.
well yea. wtf am i saying lol. he was pro at everything. im just scared they wont be as good as they were in brood war. like not as good as MKP or DRG for example. well. sigh . we'll see
I am going to laugh when all the apologists come out after a few of these transitioning broodwar players fail to make it to the top of the skill field in sc2.
On May 03 2012 08:33 Malpractice.248 wrote: And, the fact BW pros might not transition as well. Youre assuming BW pros makes them some god at sc2, without having seem them play, or anything. Just because they played BW.
Koreans just have great practice methods, and have playing the RTS genre much longer. Ofc youll say OMG BW pros are SO MUCH BETTER THEY GONNA DOMINATE -- some of these new people havent dedicated 10 years to a genre. That doesnt mean they will win every game and championship; there are upsets.
Thats my point. Its not BW that makes a player good. Its RTS experience. If someone who played AOE for 12 years 10 hours a day, then switched (give him a year to adjust) he could make a run as well. Saying "OMG BW PROS WILL DOMINATE 100% ONCE THIS HAPPENS" is just ridiculous to assume that BW = GOD PLAYER, when, stephano and naniwa show it doesnt.
Theyll have their ups and downs like everyone else. Boxer was the best in BW for a long time, now hes a consistant code A player. Just saying. (Not to knock on him, love him)
Even when other RTS games had pretty big competitive scenes it was quite accepted that the skill level of those games were no where near that of BW. Just playing BW doesn't make one amazing and not every pro is going to be better than current players, but it is safe bet when one is a part of the most competitive e-sport playing arguably the highest skill level game they will be good in SC2.
Boxer hasn't been good in BW since 2005 yet he has been top3 in international tournaments and has made Code S.
actually boxer hasn't been good in bw since 2002 T_T* and even then when you take the time you look back at skill that early on.. everyone was actually really bad.. boxer stood out with just very nice micro
On May 02 2012 12:32 zokj wrote: are kespa players allowed to stream?
iirc jaedong/etc weren't allowed to stream with hiya (at least from what I remember on that topic?), but was allowed to play games with hiya that hiya could stream.... but they couldn't even stream on afreeca
so I somewhat doubt it? oo
I think with blizzard acting as puppet master, KeSPA will have to loosen its grip on their players. I think kespa players streaming is a good possibility; however, I doubt many of them will stream even if they have permission. Hell, I doubt many of them will even ladder. kespa pros have such a sick practice regiment that there isn't any time for leisure ladder time.
Lol, why do people act as if Blizzard is the stronger partner in this? KESPA is backed by corporations that are worth much more than Vivendi. Blizzard won't be doing any puppeteering soon
Vivendi is like 18 billion and is larger than EA. So this is actually a sincere question - how much money is backing KESPA?
Samsung is pretty big
As are the Telecom companies backing KT and SKT1. There's a lot of money backing KESPA.
No point comparing which company has more money -- the budget allotted for Starcraft related events is likely similar and easily affordable by any company half their size. Not likely the companies will be digging very deep for any of this.
On May 03 2012 12:24 GT350 wrote: when are they starting with the all sc2 games?
I think OGN/KeSPA is planning on announcing their format during the second week of May, and will start with the hybrid SC2/BW Proleague in the third week of May.
Or at least that is what I've read so far on ESFI World's transcript.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EYOEC.jpg)
I mean - if all of them are working on something together it can't be bad, right?
![[image loading]](http://www.heathersanimations.com/elephant/elebss.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2ewsH.jpg)
