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Knock off the SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs whatever crap please. |
Proleague to have SC2????
What's not to like???
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The amount of hate in this thread is mind bogling.
SC2 is a low skill ceiling crap that Blizzard rushed into release to milk the cow, Dustin Browder is the devil himself yada yada.
I really can't wait for a KESPA run SC2 league.
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On March 27 2012 15:49 nvrs wrote:
The amount of hate in this thread is mind bogling.
SC2 is a low skill ceiling crap that Blizzard rushed into release to milk the cow, Dustin Browder is the devil himself yada yada.
I really can't wait for a KESPA run SC2 league.
Except it took like 10 years for them to release it.
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On March 27 2012 15:56 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 15:49 nvrs wrote:
The amount of hate in this thread is mind bogling.
SC2 is a low skill ceiling crap that Blizzard rushed into release to milk the cow, Dustin Browder is the devil himself yada yada.
I really can't wait for a KESPA run SC2 league. Except it took like 10 years for them to release it.
i believe he was being sarcastic, but i'm not quite sure. it all depends on what he yada yada'd
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On March 27 2012 15:57 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 15:56 sharky246 wrote:On March 27 2012 15:49 nvrs wrote:
The amount of hate in this thread is mind bogling.
SC2 is a low skill ceiling crap that Blizzard rushed into release to milk the cow, Dustin Browder is the devil himself yada yada.
I really can't wait for a KESPA run SC2 league. Except it took like 10 years for them to release it. i believe he was being sarcastic, but i'm not quite sure. it all depends on what he yada yada'd
Yeah, it was pretty obvious sarcasm, if only worded a bit weirdly ;o
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Forget it. Let the elitist, niche market enjoy the dying moments of their game, I guess.
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On March 27 2012 16:12 Lunareste wrote:
Forget it. Let the elitist, niche market enjoy the dying moments of their game, I guess.
Are you referring to BW or SC2?
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On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion.
It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)"
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On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion. It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)"
The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion. It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)" The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL.
In fact, you can even see that there are even different generations of players who are on top, and those who were nearly unbeatable in some matchups (MC in PvP or Nestea in ZvZ) struggle, whereas other great players (MKP, DRG) use their potential and evolve the metagame. This of course will evolve further when highly organized BW teams from start to emerge in tournaments.
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On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion. It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)" The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL.
Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to.
It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.
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United Kingdom1666 Posts
On March 27 2012 16:42 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion. It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)" The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL. Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to. It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.
Gaaah please, don't talk about us like we're little kids and we're acting up, just because we don't like change. You lot, you really don't understand the BW community. I know you think you do, but please, believe me when I say you do not! This is not just directed at the last guy, but more at maaany people throughout this thread/website. You do not understand what we think/why. When we express our opinion in a sanguine manner, you tell us we are wrong or nostalgic or living in the past or, there it is, afraid of change. This makes us angry. I'm staying out of community news from now on...
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On March 27 2012 17:03 ImbaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 16:42 lorkac wrote:On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion. It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)" The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL. Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to. It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves. Gaaah please, don't talk about us like we're little kids and we're acting up, just because we don't like change. You lot, you really don't understand the BW community. I know you think you do, but please, believe me when I say you do not! This is not just directed at the last guy, but more at maaany people throughout this thread/website. You do not understand what we think/why. When we express our opinion in a sanguine manner, you tell us we are wrong or nostalgic or living in the past or, there it is, afraid of change. This makes us angry. I'm staying out of community news from now on...
I agree man! I hate it when people post whole threads that belittle the hobbies I have.
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On March 25 2012 02:31 SkyTheUnknown wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:21 Risljaninasim wrote:
If the BW pros come to Sc2, it will be awesome. This. I'm already hyped as hell for this.
i cant wait anymore~! just take my money!
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On March 27 2012 16:42 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison. I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion. It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)" The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL. Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to. It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.
It's very human to feel jilted when the people who have the most to gain from liking your new shiny hobby, still can't objectively find a reason to like it try as they might, Let them go through whatever motions they need to feel better about their game.
See how condescending it is when people pretend to understand your motivations but clearly don't have a clue?
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I really hope that they negotiate "foreigners technical stuff" as well, like free stream of some kind , english casting crew (Rob Simpson is Blizzard employee, they could help them there), and 16 format. WCG SC2 was a technical disaster, I think Blizzard was not pleased with how SC2 was presented to a large Korean audience, they could not have been...
It's not easy, it took GOM about a year to solve all their major issues, and in all that time, they developed very nice product which they still improve. I assume those are not easy things to do and require at least some money/time investment.
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On March 27 2012 02:57 [Azn]Nada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 02:46 maybenexttime wrote:On March 27 2012 02:30 discomatt wrote:On March 27 2012 02:15 maybenexttime wrote:On March 27 2012 01:56 finale23 wrote:
"It's dead, Jim. Let it go." BW has been one of the most entertaining, well balanced games in history, but it didn't start out that way. Blizzard diligently patched and balanced it over the year and made it into the perfect game you and i have become accustomed to. Also the level of competition in BW today is lightyears ahead of what it was when proleague first started. the revered boxer back in his heyday would have got nothing on jaedong and flash. my point is that BW has evolved over the years and so have the players and the level of competition. in order for SC2 to follow suit and grow into as polished of a game as BW, BW would have to go. some people compared BW to baseball, but you're probably too young to remember that even baseball had some significant rule changes that divided baseball history into different eras. plus, they aren't really the same thing, the graphic in baseball can't really get any better and there are no new units. SC2 is still a work in process with at least 2 expansions, and blizzard is pretty attentive to what fans want (barring the LAN issue). you should really give blizzard and sc2 a chance. BW's balance was a total fluke. Releasing a bunch of patches is not really dilligent patching. Sure, they had good support compared to their competition, but that's just because their competition was so appalling. It was a fluke, because Blizzard has proven it times and times again with their stupid design/balance decisions in WC3 and SC2, BNet "2.0" design and countless interviews showing their ignorance. You have to be joking when you say Blizzard is attentive to their fans. Where are proper chats and chat functions? Online replays? Proper custom games? Cross-server play? Clan features? (Not to mention a bunch of other features that would actually make BNet 2.0 an improved version of the service, that games like AoE3, HoN or DotA 2 have) Where is micro? Proper macro mechanics? What are units like Marauders, Colossi, etc. still doing in the game? Where's defender's advantage? Positional units? Blizzard is attentive? Only to their investors... Go do it better. Better yet, find a company that's doing more for it's community. Even Valve has had it's own share of big mistakes and moments where finances came before overly-demanding community. Yeah, SC2 might not have the UI you, or many others like. Again, do it better. Considering how well Blizzard is doing, you should make a killing. BTW - MLG, DRG attacked a toss (can't remember who) with 200/200 on 3 bases before the 13 minute mark. Toss had pure gateway on 2 bases, at ~100/200. The Toss held, countered, and won. I'd say that's a fine example of defenders advantage. There are advanced strategies and very crisp and accurate timings, the game is probably a little to fast for you to notice them. What kind of childish argument is this? This isn't kindergarten. Also stop showing me exceptions from the rule, please. It's about the majority of games and gameplay mechanics, not "hey, in one game this and this happened, so there's hope"... If you don't want to listen to me, maybe you'll at least read several articles that point out various flaws in SC2 that were posted on TL. What do you mean find a company that's doing more for the community? What had Blizzard done for the community since they released SC2? They tried to kill BW, milked the tournaments that sprang into existence and implemented chat rooms. Wow, impressive. And if by UI you mean BNet, then they did not have to put ANY effort into developing a proper service. WC3's BNet with BW's online replays would've been ten times better than what SC2 currently has... HoN's developer has made a much better job, and their just some niche company... ' Strongly agree... Blizzard has spent the past 5 years trying to trash Kespa. Granted Kespa isn't god or anything, but they have NO MONEY compared to Activision Blizzard, which is probably rolling in cash. Bobby Kintcock has one goal, and thats to please shareholders (aka make more money). The old Blizzard released BW for FREE. Do you think Kintcock is even going to give you an expansion for a discount off the original price? Nope, your probably going to pay extra for a game that's marketed as a seperate game, but is merely an expansion. Blizzard has changed, and its not surprising - shareholders must be pleased, or the CEO gets booted. That's the way life is. As for trying to compare BW to SC2, I personally (and most BW stalwarts) feel that its comparing (1) oranges to apples, and (2) chess to checkers. SC2 isn't nearly as deep as BW, and the skillcap will be reached quite shortly... BW is physically impossible to attain perfect macro/micro - that literally requires ~1000 APM... SC2, 250 is enough for most situations... The game wasn't great to begin with, Dustin Bowder came fresh off screwing the entire Command and Conquer line, and Kintcock was alot more interested in dumbing the game down for the masses than making it an elitist game that BW seems to have come to be over the years (for more $$$$ of course)
I play zerg and have 300+ apm and 170 - 200 eapm and I feel as there are HEAPS more things that I could have done. I think the skill cap for zerg is very high and high for terran too, also pretty good for protoss. Although sc2 has many UI improvements its still and hard game with a high skill cap. There is no way that in this day and age that blizzard could have released a game with the terrible interface of broodwar. I know that the difficult interface was part of what made brood war so great (because just macroing and moving your units around was a huge skill in itself ) the majority of people today do not appreciate this and it makes the game a lot less appealing for the casual gamer. It's surely better to make the game accessible for more people than to make to better for a few select people who enjoy watching a more difficult game.
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On March 27 2012 16:16 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 16:12 Lunareste wrote:
Forget it. Let the elitist, niche market enjoy the dying moments of their game, I guess. Are you referring to BW or SC2?
Sc2 is not dying so one can only assume he is talking about bw.
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Hm korea is weird... why does any organization have the exclusive rights to hold tournaments? No wonder SC2 didn't take off there as well as it did in the west (well, that and BW ofc).
I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff about kespa... I hope they don't get nearly as much power over the SC2 scene as they have over BW.
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Sorry guys but I think this thread is worthy of this video
+ Show Spoiler +
User was warned for this post
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EPT
