• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:33
CEST 11:33
KST 18:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports?
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 36559 users

Blizzard negotiating SC2 with KeSPA directly - Page 48

Forum Index > SC2 General
1005 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 46 47 48 49 50 51 Next
Knock off the SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs whatever crap please.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
March 27 2012 14:19 GMT
#941
But what if I don't care about esports? Esports can go die in a fire, as long as my game is played.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 27 2012 14:19 GMT
#942
On March 27 2012 18:51 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 16:42 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:
On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison.


I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion.


It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)"


The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL.


Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to.

It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.


It's very human to feel jilted when the people who have the most to gain from liking your new shiny hobby, still can't objectively find a reason to like it try as they might, Let them go through whatever motions they need to feel better about their game.

See how condescending it is when people pretend to understand your motivations but clearly don't have a clue?


How is it condescending to talk in general terms? People don't like change. When Blizzard begins supporting D3 Esport instead of SC2 esport--SC2 people will whine and talk about how SC2 > D3. It's human nature to feel upset that your hobby is not the one that is supported and popular among your peers. No need to get defensive.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 27 2012 14:22 GMT
#943
On March 27 2012 23:16 karpo wrote:

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:03 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:51 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:28 rasers wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:55 BrosephBrostar wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:24 iEatWoofers wrote:
Hm korea is weird... why does any organization have the exclusive rights to hold tournaments? No wonder SC2 didn't take off there as well as it did in the west (well, that and BW ofc).

I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff about kespa... I hope they don't get nearly as much power over the SC2 scene as they have over BW.


Kespa is the best thing to have happened to esports but everyone acts like they're satan incarnate. I guess they're all mad leta fans or something.

I agree.
While I understand people being mad over pros being treated like slaves and doing nothing but grinding games, but things like strict rules during games are logical. Those rules turned BW from a computer game into legitimate sport.

For instance because if you are punished for pausing the game yourself or writing shit in chat your are making an advantage for yourself that is beyond the game. Making breaks like this (which can easily be faked and I am sure sometimes there are in SC2) lets the player with less concentration and stamina rest.

So every professionell in any sport is a slave or what? i never understand the slave thing ~~


Many people believe that the rules set by KespA were too restrictive,
like requesting a pause is "pp" and if you write "ppp" by accident you lose the game.

Seems like a weapon of 90% on this forums. But whats up with the slavery. Its up to teams to dictate how their players train not kespa.


1. The sweatshop/slavery rants are old. You simply don't choose to understand it; that's your problem.

2. You don't even know what KeSPA is.

End of discussion right there.



You realise the guy you're quoting is on your "side"? Man, some people in this thread seem so defensive they jump at anyone, even people with similar opinions.


Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:35 izen wrote:
On March 27 2012 21:26 EnergizerBunny wrote:
Without BW "e-sports" is effectively dead. Can't wait to see SC2 get replaced by some mobile phone game in the near future.


So what you are saying is that games like, Quake, counter strike, painkiller, tf, WC3, unreal never existed? (i can go on and on and on)

I came to a conclusion that u sir, no nothing about e-sports. You only see one game that u consider "e-sports" while there is thousand of other games out there is as big as BW is in korea but on a global scale.

All i can say about this is: Gonna sit back, relax and wait for more news to pop up about this situation.



Please name these other thousand games that are all on television channels, have government support, and have been around for over a decade.

There simply isn't a single game that has achieved the mainstream cultural impact BW has and yet people want it killed off to popularize a game that may not even be around in a few years.


The original guy said that "without BW esports is effectively dead", something that's clearly not true. The reply was that there's alot of other esport titles and has been since about the same time BW came out. If you want to argue that BW is the only "true" esport then go ahead.

I don't know if some games are close to or as big as BW, it's hard to gauge as they are more spread out.


That's a philosophic question right?

Is it better to be big in one country or medium in many countries or small in most countries? When that is defined, then you can define which E-Sport is the "best." But even that--that is subjective.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 14:28:10
March 27 2012 14:25 GMT
#944
On March 27 2012 23:16 karpo wrote:

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:03 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:51 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:28 rasers wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:55 BrosephBrostar wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:24 iEatWoofers wrote:
Hm korea is weird... why does any organization have the exclusive rights to hold tournaments? No wonder SC2 didn't take off there as well as it did in the west (well, that and BW ofc).

I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff about kespa... I hope they don't get nearly as much power over the SC2 scene as they have over BW.


Kespa is the best thing to have happened to esports but everyone acts like they're satan incarnate. I guess they're all mad leta fans or something.

I agree.
While I understand people being mad over pros being treated like slaves and doing nothing but grinding games, but things like strict rules during games are logical. Those rules turned BW from a computer game into legitimate sport.

For instance because if you are punished for pausing the game yourself or writing shit in chat your are making an advantage for yourself that is beyond the game. Making breaks like this (which can easily be faked and I am sure sometimes there are in SC2) lets the player with less concentration and stamina rest.

So every professionell in any sport is a slave or what? i never understand the slave thing ~~


Many people believe that the rules set by KespA were too restrictive,
like requesting a pause is "pp" and if you write "ppp" by accident you lose the game.

Seems like a weapon of 90% on this forums. But whats up with the slavery. Its up to teams to dictate how their players train not kespa.


1. The sweatshop/slavery rants are old. You simply don't choose to understand it; that's your problem.

2. You don't even know what KeSPA is.

End of discussion right there.



You realise the guy you're quoting is on your "side"? Man, some people in this thread seem so defensive they jump at anyone, even people with similar opinions.


Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:35 izen wrote:
On March 27 2012 21:26 EnergizerBunny wrote:
Without BW "e-sports" is effectively dead. Can't wait to see SC2 get replaced by some mobile phone game in the near future.


So what you are saying is that games like, Quake, counter strike, painkiller, tf, WC3, unreal never existed? (i can go on and on and on)

I came to a conclusion that u sir, no nothing about e-sports. You only see one game that u consider "e-sports" while there is thousand of other games out there is as big as BW is in korea but on a global scale.

All i can say about this is: Gonna sit back, relax and wait for more news to pop up about this situation.



Please name these other thousand games that are all on television channels, have government support, and have been around for over a decade.

There simply isn't a single game that has achieved the mainstream cultural impact BW has and yet people want it killed off to popularize a game that may not even be around in a few years.


The original guy said that "without BW esports is effectively dead", something that's clearly not true. The reply was that there's alot of other esport titles and has been since about the same time BW came out. If you want to argue that BW is the only "true" esport then go ahead.

I don't know if some games are close to or as big as BW, it's hard to gauge as they are more spread out.


Nah, I meant the other guy and I don't call it defensive. I call it educating the uneducated.

People have to realize that when you are the cream of the crop it isn't so bad.

Gamers like JD were able to continue their studies while being pro gamers.
Stork played WoW for 8 months while pro gaming etc.

What I find most annoying the SC2 forums is the fact there are many people who speak out of their asses without educating themselves beforehand.

On March 27 2012 23:19 Blasterion wrote:
But what if I don't care about esports? Esports can go die in a fire, as long as my game is played.


That's why the word has such little weight.

Athletic sports stand on their own.

You aren't going to watch something that doesn't tickle your fancy.
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
March 27 2012 14:35 GMT
#945
On March 27 2012 23:16 karpo wrote:

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:03 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:51 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:28 rasers wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:55 BrosephBrostar wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:24 iEatWoofers wrote:
Hm korea is weird... why does any organization have the exclusive rights to hold tournaments? No wonder SC2 didn't take off there as well as it did in the west (well, that and BW ofc).

I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff about kespa... I hope they don't get nearly as much power over the SC2 scene as they have over BW.


Kespa is the best thing to have happened to esports but everyone acts like they're satan incarnate. I guess they're all mad leta fans or something.

I agree.
While I understand people being mad over pros being treated like slaves and doing nothing but grinding games, but things like strict rules during games are logical. Those rules turned BW from a computer game into legitimate sport.

For instance because if you are punished for pausing the game yourself or writing shit in chat your are making an advantage for yourself that is beyond the game. Making breaks like this (which can easily be faked and I am sure sometimes there are in SC2) lets the player with less concentration and stamina rest.

So every professionell in any sport is a slave or what? i never understand the slave thing ~~


Many people believe that the rules set by KespA were too restrictive,
like requesting a pause is "pp" and if you write "ppp" by accident you lose the game.

Seems like a weapon of 90% on this forums. But whats up with the slavery. Its up to teams to dictate how their players train not kespa.


1. The sweatshop/slavery rants are old. You simply don't choose to understand it; that's your problem.

2. You don't even know what KeSPA is.

End of discussion right there.



You realise the guy you're quoting is on your "side"? Man, some people in this thread seem so defensive they jump at anyone, even people with similar opinions.


Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:35 izen wrote:
On March 27 2012 21:26 EnergizerBunny wrote:
Without BW "e-sports" is effectively dead. Can't wait to see SC2 get replaced by some mobile phone game in the near future.


So what you are saying is that games like, Quake, counter strike, painkiller, tf, WC3, unreal never existed? (i can go on and on and on)

I came to a conclusion that u sir, no nothing about e-sports. You only see one game that u consider "e-sports" while there is thousand of other games out there is as big as BW is in korea but on a global scale.

All i can say about this is: Gonna sit back, relax and wait for more news to pop up about this situation.



Please name these other thousand games that are all on television channels, have government support, and have been around for over a decade.

There simply isn't a single game that has achieved the mainstream cultural impact BW has and yet people want it killed off to popularize a game that may not even be around in a few years.


The original guy said that "without BW esports is effectively dead", something that's clearly not true. The reply was that there's alot of other esport titles and has been since about the same time BW came out. If you want to argue that BW is the only "true" esport then go ahead.

I don't know if some games are close to or as big as BW, it's hard to gauge as they are more spread out.

I suppose it just depends on where your esports bar is.
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 27 2012 14:36 GMT
#946
On March 27 2012 23:25 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:16 karpo wrote:

On March 27 2012 23:03 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:51 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:28 rasers wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:55 BrosephBrostar wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:24 iEatWoofers wrote:
Hm korea is weird... why does any organization have the exclusive rights to hold tournaments? No wonder SC2 didn't take off there as well as it did in the west (well, that and BW ofc).

I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff about kespa... I hope they don't get nearly as much power over the SC2 scene as they have over BW.


Kespa is the best thing to have happened to esports but everyone acts like they're satan incarnate. I guess they're all mad leta fans or something.

I agree.
While I understand people being mad over pros being treated like slaves and doing nothing but grinding games, but things like strict rules during games are logical. Those rules turned BW from a computer game into legitimate sport.

For instance because if you are punished for pausing the game yourself or writing shit in chat your are making an advantage for yourself that is beyond the game. Making breaks like this (which can easily be faked and I am sure sometimes there are in SC2) lets the player with less concentration and stamina rest.

So every professionell in any sport is a slave or what? i never understand the slave thing ~~


Many people believe that the rules set by KespA were too restrictive,
like requesting a pause is "pp" and if you write "ppp" by accident you lose the game.

Seems like a weapon of 90% on this forums. But whats up with the slavery. Its up to teams to dictate how their players train not kespa.


1. The sweatshop/slavery rants are old. You simply don't choose to understand it; that's your problem.

2. You don't even know what KeSPA is.

End of discussion right there.



You realise the guy you're quoting is on your "side"? Man, some people in this thread seem so defensive they jump at anyone, even people with similar opinions.


On March 27 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:35 izen wrote:
On March 27 2012 21:26 EnergizerBunny wrote:
Without BW "e-sports" is effectively dead. Can't wait to see SC2 get replaced by some mobile phone game in the near future.


So what you are saying is that games like, Quake, counter strike, painkiller, tf, WC3, unreal never existed? (i can go on and on and on)

I came to a conclusion that u sir, no nothing about e-sports. You only see one game that u consider "e-sports" while there is thousand of other games out there is as big as BW is in korea but on a global scale.

All i can say about this is: Gonna sit back, relax and wait for more news to pop up about this situation.



Please name these other thousand games that are all on television channels, have government support, and have been around for over a decade.

There simply isn't a single game that has achieved the mainstream cultural impact BW has and yet people want it killed off to popularize a game that may not even be around in a few years.


The original guy said that "without BW esports is effectively dead", something that's clearly not true. The reply was that there's alot of other esport titles and has been since about the same time BW came out. If you want to argue that BW is the only "true" esport then go ahead.

I don't know if some games are close to or as big as BW, it's hard to gauge as they are more spread out.


Nah, I meant the other guy and I don't call it defensive. I call it educating the uneducated.

People have to realize that when you are the cream of the crop it isn't so bad.

Gamers like JD were able to continue their studies while being pro gamers.
Stork played WoW for 8 months while pro gaming etc.

What I find most annoying the SC2 forums is the fact there are many people who speak out of their asses without educating themselves beforehand.

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:19 Blasterion wrote:
But what if I don't care about esports? Esports can go die in a fire, as long as my game is played.


That's why the word has such little weight.

Athletic sports stand on their own.

You aren't going to watch something that doesn't tickle your fancy.


A.) Athletic Sports is actually supported because excelling physically is seen as an accomplishment and hence physical contests are seen as important. This is why popular sports like basketball, futbol, football, rugby, etc... are more popular and get more funding than curling, darts and pool. It's also the reason that games like Magic the Gathering, Counterstrike and DOTA does not have as much societal support--because they're not physical.

The attempt to promote esports is the attempt to create a ubiquitous sense of acceptance of electronic sports in general with the hope that it will remove the societal stigma that videogames have.

B.) People in the SC2 thread have the right to talk about what the want much like people in the BW thread are welcome to talk about what they want. Why would you go to an SC2 thread and expect SC2 fans to belittle their own game?
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
proteininja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States57 Posts
March 27 2012 14:42 GMT
#947
On March 27 2012 23:36 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:25 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 23:16 karpo wrote:

On March 27 2012 23:03 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:51 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:28 rasers wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:55 BrosephBrostar wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:24 iEatWoofers wrote:
Hm korea is weird... why does any organization have the exclusive rights to hold tournaments? No wonder SC2 didn't take off there as well as it did in the west (well, that and BW ofc).

I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff about kespa... I hope they don't get nearly as much power over the SC2 scene as they have over BW.


Kespa is the best thing to have happened to esports but everyone acts like they're satan incarnate. I guess they're all mad leta fans or something.

I agree.
While I understand people being mad over pros being treated like slaves and doing nothing but grinding games, but things like strict rules during games are logical. Those rules turned BW from a computer game into legitimate sport.

For instance because if you are punished for pausing the game yourself or writing shit in chat your are making an advantage for yourself that is beyond the game. Making breaks like this (which can easily be faked and I am sure sometimes there are in SC2) lets the player with less concentration and stamina rest.

So every professionell in any sport is a slave or what? i never understand the slave thing ~~


Many people believe that the rules set by KespA were too restrictive,
like requesting a pause is "pp" and if you write "ppp" by accident you lose the game.

Seems like a weapon of 90% on this forums. But whats up with the slavery. Its up to teams to dictate how their players train not kespa.


1. The sweatshop/slavery rants are old. You simply don't choose to understand it; that's your problem.

2. You don't even know what KeSPA is.

End of discussion right there.



You realise the guy you're quoting is on your "side"? Man, some people in this thread seem so defensive they jump at anyone, even people with similar opinions.


On March 27 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:35 izen wrote:
On March 27 2012 21:26 EnergizerBunny wrote:
Without BW "e-sports" is effectively dead. Can't wait to see SC2 get replaced by some mobile phone game in the near future.


So what you are saying is that games like, Quake, counter strike, painkiller, tf, WC3, unreal never existed? (i can go on and on and on)

I came to a conclusion that u sir, no nothing about e-sports. You only see one game that u consider "e-sports" while there is thousand of other games out there is as big as BW is in korea but on a global scale.

All i can say about this is: Gonna sit back, relax and wait for more news to pop up about this situation.



Please name these other thousand games that are all on television channels, have government support, and have been around for over a decade.

There simply isn't a single game that has achieved the mainstream cultural impact BW has and yet people want it killed off to popularize a game that may not even be around in a few years.


The original guy said that "without BW esports is effectively dead", something that's clearly not true. The reply was that there's alot of other esport titles and has been since about the same time BW came out. If you want to argue that BW is the only "true" esport then go ahead.

I don't know if some games are close to or as big as BW, it's hard to gauge as they are more spread out.


Nah, I meant the other guy and I don't call it defensive. I call it educating the uneducated.

People have to realize that when you are the cream of the crop it isn't so bad.

Gamers like JD were able to continue their studies while being pro gamers.
Stork played WoW for 8 months while pro gaming etc.

What I find most annoying the SC2 forums is the fact there are many people who speak out of their asses without educating themselves beforehand.

On March 27 2012 23:19 Blasterion wrote:
But what if I don't care about esports? Esports can go die in a fire, as long as my game is played.


That's why the word has such little weight.

Athletic sports stand on their own.

You aren't going to watch something that doesn't tickle your fancy.


A.) Athletic Sports is actually supported because excelling physically is seen as an accomplishment and hence physical contests are seen as important. This is why popular sports like basketball, futbol, football, rugby, etc... are more popular and get more funding than curling, darts and pool. It's also the reason that games like Magic the Gathering, Counterstrike and DOTA does not have as much societal support--because they're not physical.

The attempt to promote esports is the attempt to create a ubiquitous sense of acceptance of electronic sports in general with the hope that it will remove the societal stigma that videogames have.

B.) People in the SC2 thread have the right to talk about what the want much like people in the BW thread are welcome to talk about what they want. Why would you go to an SC2 thread and expect SC2 fans to belittle their own game?


What about golf?
We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
March 27 2012 14:46 GMT
#948
That wasn't the point I was making. It's the fact that each game stands on it's own.

I understand the sense of acceptance, but that's hodge-podge. Goes back to the interest in sports. Games are similiar in that way. We watch what interests us and not the other way around. They only care about the games that interest them.

As for your latter point. Under TL guidelines. No you don't have the right to say whatever you want. It's a privilege hence, edcuate yourself or ask questions before making yourself look silly.

This has nothing to do with belittling. It has everything to do with educating and informing those about what is happening.

If you weren't aware of the proposed format then you should probably do so now. That's why you see a lot of people from both scenes raise a lot of questions.
Biglarry
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States9 Posts
March 27 2012 15:04 GMT
#949
well guys sc1/brood war is over a decade old. all things come to an end, even good things. and technology has made for a much better handling and looking game. whats so bad about moving on?
I am the PwNAge, Bitches!
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
March 27 2012 15:07 GMT
#950
On March 27 2012 23:19 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 18:51 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:42 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:
On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison.


I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion.


It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)"


The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL.


Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to.

It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.


It's very human to feel jilted when the people who have the most to gain from liking your new shiny hobby, still can't objectively find a reason to like it try as they might, Let them go through whatever motions they need to feel better about their game.

See how condescending it is when people pretend to understand your motivations but clearly don't have a clue?


How is it condescending to talk in general terms? People don't like change. When Blizzard begins supporting D3 Esport instead of SC2 esport--SC2 people will whine and talk about how SC2 > D3. It's human nature to feel upset that your hobby is not the one that is supported and popular among your peers. No need to get defensive.


D3 will never be an esports.
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
March 27 2012 15:11 GMT
#951
On March 28 2012 00:04 Biglarry wrote:
well guys sc1/brood war is over a decade old. all things come to an end, even good things. and technology has made for a much better handling and looking game. whats so bad about moving on?

Because we don't see SC2 as an improvement. An unworthy successor.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 15:24:46
March 27 2012 15:23 GMT
#952
On March 28 2012 00:04 Biglarry wrote:
well guys sc1/brood war is over a decade old. all things come to an end, even good things. and technology has made for a much better handling and looking game. whats so bad about moving on?


I see we're going around in circles. Read the actual thread before commenting.

ShadeR that really doesn't help either, lol.

It would be nice if an Admin could put some cole notes at the top of this thread for those who don't want to rummage around this thread.
GeNeSiDe
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom354 Posts
March 27 2012 15:36 GMT
#953
On March 27 2012 23:42 proteininja wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 23:36 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 23:25 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 23:16 karpo wrote:

On March 27 2012 23:03 StarStruck wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:51 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:28 rasers wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:55 BrosephBrostar wrote:
[quote]

Kespa is the best thing to have happened to esports but everyone acts like they're satan incarnate. I guess they're all mad leta fans or something.

I agree.
While I understand people being mad over pros being treated like slaves and doing nothing but grinding games, but things like strict rules during games are logical. Those rules turned BW from a computer game into legitimate sport.

For instance because if you are punished for pausing the game yourself or writing shit in chat your are making an advantage for yourself that is beyond the game. Making breaks like this (which can easily be faked and I am sure sometimes there are in SC2) lets the player with less concentration and stamina rest.

So every professionell in any sport is a slave or what? i never understand the slave thing ~~


Many people believe that the rules set by KespA were too restrictive,
like requesting a pause is "pp" and if you write "ppp" by accident you lose the game.

Seems like a weapon of 90% on this forums. But whats up with the slavery. Its up to teams to dictate how their players train not kespa.


1. The sweatshop/slavery rants are old. You simply don't choose to understand it; that's your problem.

2. You don't even know what KeSPA is.

End of discussion right there.



You realise the guy you're quoting is on your "side"? Man, some people in this thread seem so defensive they jump at anyone, even people with similar opinions.


On March 27 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:
On March 27 2012 22:35 izen wrote:
On March 27 2012 21:26 EnergizerBunny wrote:
Without BW "e-sports" is effectively dead. Can't wait to see SC2 get replaced by some mobile phone game in the near future.


So what you are saying is that games like, Quake, counter strike, painkiller, tf, WC3, unreal never existed? (i can go on and on and on)

I came to a conclusion that u sir, no nothing about e-sports. You only see one game that u consider "e-sports" while there is thousand of other games out there is as big as BW is in korea but on a global scale.

All i can say about this is: Gonna sit back, relax and wait for more news to pop up about this situation.



Please name these other thousand games that are all on television channels, have government support, and have been around for over a decade.

There simply isn't a single game that has achieved the mainstream cultural impact BW has and yet people want it killed off to popularize a game that may not even be around in a few years.


The original guy said that "without BW esports is effectively dead", something that's clearly not true. The reply was that there's alot of other esport titles and has been since about the same time BW came out. If you want to argue that BW is the only "true" esport then go ahead.

I don't know if some games are close to or as big as BW, it's hard to gauge as they are more spread out.


Nah, I meant the other guy and I don't call it defensive. I call it educating the uneducated.

People have to realize that when you are the cream of the crop it isn't so bad.

Gamers like JD were able to continue their studies while being pro gamers.
Stork played WoW for 8 months while pro gaming etc.

What I find most annoying the SC2 forums is the fact there are many people who speak out of their asses without educating themselves beforehand.

On March 27 2012 23:19 Blasterion wrote:
But what if I don't care about esports? Esports can go die in a fire, as long as my game is played.


That's why the word has such little weight.

Athletic sports stand on their own.

You aren't going to watch something that doesn't tickle your fancy.


A.) Athletic Sports is actually supported because excelling physically is seen as an accomplishment and hence physical contests are seen as important. This is why popular sports like basketball, futbol, football, rugby, etc... are more popular and get more funding than curling, darts and pool. It's also the reason that games like Magic the Gathering, Counterstrike and DOTA does not have as much societal support--because they're not physical.

The attempt to promote esports is the attempt to create a ubiquitous sense of acceptance of electronic sports in general with the hope that it will remove the societal stigma that videogames have.

B.) People in the SC2 thread have the right to talk about what the want much like people in the BW thread are welcome to talk about what they want. Why would you go to an SC2 thread and expect SC2 fans to belittle their own game?


What about golf?


Golf isn't physical? In order to play a golf tournament, you need to do the following things.

1. Walk around a golf course for 5+ miles a day, 4-5 days in a row, regardless of weather conditions.
2. Hit a ball with to-the-milimeter accuracy with proper power.


Sounds pretty physical to me m8.
http://soundcloud.com/eastmanmusic Check out my latest sc2 song "Masters League!"
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 27 2012 15:43 GMT
#954
On March 27 2012 23:46 StarStruck wrote:
That wasn't the point I was making. It's the fact that each game stands on it's own.

I understand the sense of acceptance, but that's hodge-podge. Goes back to the interest in sports. Games are similiar in that way. We watch what interests us and not the other way around. They only care about the games that interest them.

As for your latter point. Under TL guidelines. No you don't have the right to say whatever you want. It's a privilege hence, edcuate yourself or ask questions before making yourself look silly.

This has nothing to do with belittling. It has everything to do with educating and informing those about what is happening.

If you weren't aware of the proposed format then you should probably do so now. That's why you see a lot of people from both scenes raise a lot of questions.


Don't make this a BW vs SC2 debate. I'm asking two basics.

A.) the popularity of physical sports as a whole is the reason individual sports are supported.

B.) why would you expect sc2 players to talk bad about their game regardless of what they're comparing it to be it BW, LoL, or flying fucking kites.

C.) hardcore mode pvp death fights in D3 would be an awesome esport
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
March 27 2012 15:54 GMT
#955
It seems that a lot of people do not understand basic logic. Your statements about "Its the greater good for 'E-sport' that BW dies and make ways for other product."

Imagine Football being BW, Basketball being SC2. You are pretty saying that it is would be greater good for 'E-sport' that Football not being played. How is that supporting the scene? So it is better for 'E-sport' by having an 'E-sport' die.....sounds a fallacious argument to me.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
March 27 2012 15:54 GMT
#956
As long as Blizzard is involved, this will never work. Blizzard's goals are fundamentally incompatible with making a long-term competitive game.

We're lucky as it is that Activision doesn't have too much power. Otherwise we'd see expansions every year. But even as it is now, Blizzard will keep releasing a new game/expansion every 3 years at most and try to force people to buy the new game.

BW would never be where it is if SC1 had 2 more expansions constantly fucking the equilibrium up.
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
March 27 2012 15:55 GMT
#957
Guys...

There is no point arguing with people who haven't followed or played BW competitively because we can keep saying that SC2 is inferior in almost every aspect to BW all day long, and they won't understand that since they have not the experience people have with BW and they will find that offensive towards a game they like and believe to be good.

So SC2 fans, when a BW fan says SC2 is not living up to its predecessor, we don't say that in blind hate, but with the experience of having played and watched both of them. We are also not afraid of changes, before the release EVERYBODY was hyped with SC2, everyone wanted so bad to play it, but then after we played it, after we watched high level games, we felt something was completely off, and all the hype became frustration.

What sucks is that Blizzard was smartass and every complaint we make today about the game they can use the excuse "we still have expansions to fix that, you will just need to pay extra $40 though". So in a sense, SC2 is "protected" for the next 4-5 years.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 27 2012 16:04 GMT
#958
On March 28 2012 00:54 Xiphos wrote:
It seems that a lot of people do not understand basic logic. Your statements about "Its the greater good for 'E-sport' that BW dies and make ways for other product."

Imagine Football being BW, Basketball being SC2. You are pretty saying that it is would be greater good for 'E-sport' that Football not being played. How is that supporting the scene? So it is better for 'E-sport' by having an 'E-sport' die.....sounds a fallacious argument to me.


I ever said BW should die--I'm saying I understand why blizzard is doing what it is doing.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
doubleupgradeobbies!
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 16:42:46
March 27 2012 16:05 GMT
#959
On March 27 2012 23:19 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 18:51 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:42 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:24 karpo wrote:
On March 27 2012 16:18 lorkac wrote:
On March 27 2012 09:30 Adreme wrote:
On March 27 2012 08:22 snakeeyez wrote:
It will be pretty sad to watch the best like flash lose to random pros just because of imbalances and lower skill ceiling. I think .their amount of practice will be wasted after they adapt to the game and see how easy it is in comparison.


I love Flash but didnt he just recently lose to 3 protosses who he clearly outclasses. If theres one thing I learned watching e-sports and sports in general its that the best player can lose at any time even when he is/they are better than there opponent(s). I think the extent to which it happens in SC2 is blown way out of proportion.


It actually is blown way out of proportion. High winrates and consistent winrates are very much true realities in SC2. Heck, the foreigner Korean gap is so wide right now that unless you're training in the team house ala Huk/Naniwa, you don't really have much of a shot even trading games vs most koreans. Mostly when they say things like "lower skill ceiling" they're more often than not simply lashing out at the popularity of a game that they feel is inferior much akin to how a lot of people lash out and make fun of famous people like Justin Beiber and Kim Kardasian. There really is no reason to be hostile--but since you feel it is unfair that those people are succsfull and not others that are "more deserving," then you end up lashing out and saying things like "slutty (kardasian)" "gay (bieber)" or "lower skill ceiling (SC2)"


The talk about "low skill ceiling that's nearly reached" has been around for a year and a half now, yet players now would totally destroy everyone in last years GSL.


Let's not get too specific. Details lead to SC2 v BW debates--which leads to red words and a PM you can't respond to.

It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.


It's very human to feel jilted when the people who have the most to gain from liking your new shiny hobby, still can't objectively find a reason to like it try as they might, Let them go through whatever motions they need to feel better about their game.

See how condescending it is when people pretend to understand your motivations but clearly don't have a clue?


How is it condescending to talk in general terms? People don't like change. When Blizzard begins supporting D3 Esport instead of SC2 esport--SC2 people will whine and talk about how SC2 > D3. It's human nature to feel upset that your hobby is not the one that is supported and popular among your peers. No need to get defensive.


Woah you have it completely wrong. It may be true that people don't generally like change. But to insist that's why we are upset over it, is exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't really give a crap what is supported among my peers, so long as there is sufficient support for what I care about to keep it going. Thats exactly the problem here, I'm not upset that 'my peers' like SC2, I knew that was going to happen when the SC2 beta was announce, heck I expected to be moving with them.

The problem is, there IS enough support to keep BW going, but outside forces, eg Blizzard and the SC2 crowd are aiming to cannibalise the BW infrastructure instead of building their own, and many of 'my peers' in SC2 are hoping for BW to go down as quickly as possible to make this happen.

It's condescending because you implied that nostalgia/conservatism is the reason we hold onto BW, whereas for most people still holding onto BW, it's because even as contemporaries we find BW to be the superior game, and consider SC2 a sequel in name only. We hold on because we prefer what we prefer, not because it's old and familiar.

The exact quote I originally quoted was: 'It's very human nature to act resistant to change. Let them go through whatever motions they need to get through to feel better about themselves.'

I don't see how you could argue that is anything BUT condescending, it is a direct implication that 'change' is the very reason we need to go through whatever motions. And that's exactly why I said he clearly had no idea what our actual motivations are.

I emphasize again, when SC2 was announced, we, the BW crowd were probably the single most excited community about it, and were the collective group who probably tried hardest to like SC2. We don't actually care what everyone else supports nearly as much as you think, we are just upset that the SC2 crowd is intentionally trying to take us down so they can use our infrastructure.
MSL, 2003-2011, RIP. OSL, 2000-2012, RIP. Proleague, 2003-2012, RIP. And then there was none... Even good things must come to an end.
TR.Mutank
Profile Joined March 2011
Japan15 Posts
March 27 2012 16:18 GMT
#960
Will be interesting.........I really hope that BW pros switch over instead of just quitting the gaming scene. Will give an awesome feel to have more Korean Pros and possibly to have the BW pro teams switch over for more GSTL fun.
화이팅, Build Maruaders? Okay. Sounds like a good plan to counter voidrays.
Prev 1 46 47 48 49 50 51 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 202
ProTech80
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31698
Sea 4962
Jaedong 260
Sharp 206
BeSt 190
EffOrt 188
Pusan 129
GoRush 86
Leta 82
Dewaltoss 73
[ Show more ]
Movie 44
Backho 32
Sacsri 25
Dota 2
XcaliburYe567
BananaSlamJamma433
XaKoH 231
League of Legends
JimRising 514
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1292
Stewie2K704
Super Smash Bros
Westballz19
Other Games
Happy439
crisheroes269
Mew2King236
Pyrionflax78
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3697
Other Games
gamesdonequick677
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach4
• Rasowy 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota296
League of Legends
• Stunt572
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
27m
WardiTV Invitational
1h 27m
PiGosaur Monday
14h 27m
GSL Code S
23h 57m
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
GSL Code S
1d 23h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.