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Knock off the SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs whatever crap please. |
On March 28 2012 01:18 TR.Mutank wrote:
Will be interesting.........I really hope that BW pros switch over instead of just quitting the gaming scene. Will give an awesome feel to have more Korean Pros and possibly to have the BW pro teams switch over for more GSTL fun.
sigh....
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On March 28 2012 00:55 fabiano wrote:
Guys...
There is no point arguing with people who haven't followed or played BW competitively because we can keep saying that SC2 is inferior in almost every aspect to BW all day long, and they won't understand that since they have not the experience people have with BW and they will find that offensive towards a game they like and believe to be good.
So SC2 fans, when a BW fan says SC2 is not living up to its predecessor, we don't say that in blind hate, but with the experience of having played and watched both of them. We are also not afraid of changes, before the release EVERYBODY was hyped with SC2, everyone wanted so bad to play it, but then after we played it, after we watched high level games, we felt something was completely off, and all the hype became frustration.
What sucks is that Blizzard was smartass and every complaint we make today about the game they can use the excuse "we still have expansions to fix that, you will just need to pay extra $40 though". So in a sense, SC2 is "protected" for the next 4-5 years.
Awesome opinion bro. Realize the only facts in your post are that others agree with you.
The game is well made. Most complaints are based around fluff. UI, social interaction, clan support etc. All things we have very viable alternatives for.
It's not SC:BW, we get it. You prefer SC:BW, we get it. You're sad SC:BW is rumoured to be dropped by KeSPA, we get it. Stop attacking a game we enjoy watching and playing because your is losing support from sponsors and casuals. You don't need KeSPA to keep the game alive, and I'm sure Blizzard would still be happy to sell broadcasting rights to anyone who wants to continue to run professional SC:BW tournaments.
Can someone point me to the article or official quotes saying that SC:BW is even being dropped? And if so, that Blizzard is the reason behind it? Is the devout SC:BW scene going full out flame over rumours?
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SC1/BW took a while to get good. Blizzard feels the need to invest in the future and not the past.
My only assumption is that they feel that the best way to get the most invested into SC2 is to make sure BW is dropped.
Being able to focus only on SC2 and making sure that all the attention is on SC2 may be the way they feel is best to do it.
It's sad. I enjoyed watching BW, but I stopped watching it when I started playing SupCom. I came back and it was SC2, so yes I don't have the years of watching BW.
I watch a lot of Rugby and if they suddenly dropped Rugby Union for the newer Rugby League completely I would be sad as I think Union is the better game. I can see how it would be similar for BW/SC2. It's been a long time and some people have even grown up with BW (which just makes me feel old).
My hope is that Blizzard can keep refining SC2 into the game that BW players will also love. It may happen, it may not. It's sad to see the outright "SC2 isn't as good yo" comments, as I remember BW still being pretty bad 2 years after its release.
If BW is dropped, it's up to us as Esports and StarCraft fans to try to make sure the game is as good as it can be. Constructively and maturely.
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Why is it an automatic assumption that it is blizzard who wants to drop BW and not kespa? From a greed standpoint--wouldn't activision prefer both to be running and streaming revenue back into company pockets?
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On March 28 2012 01:59 lorkac wrote:
Why is it an automatic assumption that it is blizzard who wants to drop BW and not kespa? From a greed standpoint--wouldn't activision prefer both to be running and streaming revenue back into company pockets?
They dropped their attempts to get a license fee from Kespa. This is not about revenue from esports, in fact Blizz will spend far more than they get back on Blizzcon and a Blizz/OGN partnership.
It's about sustaining the sales of SC2 long term by using esports to keep people interested and drawing in new customers. Same as Riot does for LoL: lose a few million on tournaments, gain it all back from increased hero and item sales.
This only works for SC2 since people will not buy new copies of BW.
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I don't get why so many who seem to not have played or followed BW wants to see "top bw players" play sc2,
you dont really know them, you don't know what they are capable of. And it's just Flash... JD, bisu, bla bla, like if you don't have any ideas about the other bw players. these guys are just the top of the iceberg, the BW talent pool is effin huge.
Why so excited if you dont really know anytihng about them?
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Okay, now that I've cooled down.
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
IIRC Day[9] said that in 1998 he paid $52 for his copy of SC1. That's $72 in today's money. SC2 was 60 when it came out and it's 40-45 after 20 months. Blizzard isn't hoarding its money and pirates will one day figure out a way to get it for free. They always have, they always will.
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On March 28 2012 02:53 Tomba wrote:
I don't get why so many who seem to not have played or followed BW wants to see "top bw players" play sc2,
you dont really know them, you don't know what they are capable of. And it's just Flash... JD, bisu, bla bla, like if you don't have any ideas about the other bw players. these guys are just the top of the iceberg, the BW talent pool is effin huge.
Why so excited if you dont really know anytihng about them?
Because we constantly get told how shitty our current top pros are and that they would get roflstomped by every BW b-teamer 
I want to see the awesome SC2 those Pros can show me.
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On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[...]
SC2 was 60 when it came out and it's 40-45 after 20 months.
[...]
Here in Germany, sc2 was/is an exception, 39€ at release and 20 months later it costs around 45€ now. The FIRST Game I have seen that the game is more expensive than at release.
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On March 28 2012 03:16 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[...]
SC2 was 60 when it came out and it's 40-45 after 20 months.
[...]
Here in Germany, sc2 was/is an exception, 39€ at release and 20 months later it costs around 45€ now. The FIRST Game I have seen that the game is more expensive than at release.
Why'd it go up? Have that many people started to buy it all of a sudden? Or just early deal at release so people buy more?
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On March 28 2012 03:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 03:16 Dingodile wrote:On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[...]
SC2 was 60 when it came out and it's 40-45 after 20 months.
[...]
Here in Germany, sc2 was/is an exception, 39€ at release and 20 months later it costs around 45€ now. The FIRST Game I have seen that the game is more expensive than at release. Why'd it go up? Have that many people started to buy it all of a sudden? Or just early deal at release so people buy more?
I dont know why. Probably Blizzard tried to set up a record like "2 million buyer within 24 hours" or something like this.
(Actually only the first week was 39€)
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On March 28 2012 01:32 discomatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 00:55 fabiano wrote:
Guys...
There is no point arguing with people who haven't followed or played BW competitively because we can keep saying that SC2 is inferior in almost every aspect to BW all day long, and they won't understand that since they have not the experience people have with BW and they will find that offensive towards a game they like and believe to be good.
So SC2 fans, when a BW fan says SC2 is not living up to its predecessor, we don't say that in blind hate, but with the experience of having played and watched both of them. We are also not afraid of changes, before the release EVERYBODY was hyped with SC2, everyone wanted so bad to play it, but then after we played it, after we watched high level games, we felt something was completely off, and all the hype became frustration.
What sucks is that Blizzard was smartass and every complaint we make today about the game they can use the excuse "we still have expansions to fix that, you will just need to pay extra $40 though". So in a sense, SC2 is "protected" for the next 4-5 years. Awesome opinion bro. Realize the only facts in your post are that others agree with you. The game is well made. Most complaints are based around fluff. UI, social interaction, clan support etc. All things we have very viable alternatives for.
You don't seem to have read any of our posts or any SC2 vs. BW discussions for that matter.
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On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes?
I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar.
I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague.
You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end.
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On March 28 2012 04:41 Pelopidas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes? I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar. I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague. You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end.
It's not so much that BW "needs" to die so much as that it is going to die. For the RTS esports community to survive the community needs to move to another game, or else terrible, casual trash like LoL is going to take over. I don't hate BW, and I think that Sc2 has a LOT of flaws, but anyone who thinks BW is going to survive forever is kidding themselves. It just doesn't have any more potential to grow. Sc2, like it or hate it, does. BW is completely dead globally and is started to diminish even in Korea. It's unrealistic to expect that foreigners will ever start to play it, no matter what kind of advertisement or support is done. Sc2 is still new enough and with enough new content on the way that it could actually catch on and entice people to buy/play it.
BW can't. This isn't a sleight against the game; it's a simple fact. That's why people are moving over to Sc2 and why the community in general/Blizzard/KeSPA are pinning their hopes on it rather than BW.
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On March 28 2012 03:49 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 01:32 discomatt wrote:On March 28 2012 00:55 fabiano wrote:
Guys...
There is no point arguing with people who haven't followed or played BW competitively because we can keep saying that SC2 is inferior in almost every aspect to BW all day long, and they won't understand that since they have not the experience people have with BW and they will find that offensive towards a game they like and believe to be good.
So SC2 fans, when a BW fan says SC2 is not living up to its predecessor, we don't say that in blind hate, but with the experience of having played and watched both of them. We are also not afraid of changes, before the release EVERYBODY was hyped with SC2, everyone wanted so bad to play it, but then after we played it, after we watched high level games, we felt something was completely off, and all the hype became frustration.
What sucks is that Blizzard was smartass and every complaint we make today about the game they can use the excuse "we still have expansions to fix that, you will just need to pay extra $40 though". So in a sense, SC2 is "protected" for the next 4-5 years. Awesome opinion bro. Realize the only facts in your post are that others agree with you. The game is well made. Most complaints are based around fluff. UI, social interaction, clan support etc. All things we have very viable alternatives for. You don't seem to have read any of our posts or any SC2 vs. BW discussions for that matter.
I'm sure he did. But sc2 supporters aren't allowed to make sc2 supportive statements in the sc2 forum. That would insult the legacy of the BW forum and leads to bans. Best for both sides to stop arguing about sc2 v bw since only one side gets punished anyway.
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On March 28 2012 04:49 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 04:41 Pelopidas wrote:On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes? I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar. I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague. You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end. It's not so much that BW "needs" to die so much as that it is going to die. For the RTS esports community to survive the community needs to move to another game, or else terrible, casual trash like LoL is going to take over. I don't hate BW, and I think that Sc2 has a LOT of flaws, but anyone who thinks BW is going to survive forever is kidding themselves. It just doesn't have any more potential to grow. Sc2, like it or hate it, does. BW is completely dead globally and is started to diminish even in Korea. It's unrealistic to expect that foreigners will ever start to play it, no matter what kind of advertisement or support is done. Sc2 is still new enough and with enough new content on the way that it could actually catch on and entice people to buy/play it. BW can't. This isn't a sleight against the game; it's a simple fact. That's why people are moving over to Sc2 and why the community in general/Blizzard/KeSPA are pinning their hopes on it rather than BW.
Dude, BW will last forever with all the money coming in. Just ask Jaedong how awesome this upcoming MSL is. Oh wait... It seems BW is naturally dwindling on its own... Maybe Kespa can ask Blizzard for some help? Oh? They did? Cool.
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On March 28 2012 04:49 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 04:41 Pelopidas wrote:On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes? I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar. I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague. You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end. It's not so much that BW "needs" to die so much as that it is going to die. For the RTS esports community to survive the community needs to move to another game, or else terrible, casual trash like LoL is going to take over. I don't hate BW, and I think that Sc2 has a LOT of flaws, but anyone who thinks BW is going to survive forever is kidding themselves. It just doesn't have any more potential to grow. Sc2, like it or hate it, does. BW is completely dead globally and is started to diminish even in Korea. It's unrealistic to expect that foreigners will ever start to play it, no matter what kind of advertisement or support is done. Sc2 is still new enough and with enough new content on the way that it could actually catch on and entice people to buy/play it. BW can't. This isn't a sleight against the game; it's a simple fact. That's why people are moving over to Sc2 and why the community in general/Blizzard/KeSPA are pinning their hopes on it rather than BW.
Well, I feel that SC2 is a terrible casual bastardization of BW, a sequel in name only. I would rather watch LoL. At least LoL doesn't pretend to be a sequel while tarnishing its predecessor's legacy. I also don't give a damn about the growth of the global Esports scene. I care about the BW proscene, which is now being sacrificed so that Blizzard can sell more copies of Starcraft 2, and make money off television royalties.
SC2 has very little potential to grow anyways, it peaked in the foreign scene months ago, and was rejected in Korea despite an expensive advertising campaign. You shouldn't delude yourself. Besides, a game should be popular based on its actual quality, not the dubious potential to become good. Brood War, a game which still has tremendous popularity in Korea, shouldn't be sacrificed just so a game that shares its background can grow. The point of a game is to be fun to play and watch, not to act as a vehicle for making competitive gaming popular and mainstream. Why should I care about a game growing if I hate that game, and get no enjoyment out of it?
Btw the community is not moving over to SC2 in Korea. Why would they? SC2 is a completely different game. The only ones who are think that they can make money off of SC2. The vast majority of retired pros still play BW on the Fish server. Sometimes they even play in tournaments casted on afreeca.
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On March 28 2012 04:41 Pelopidas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes? I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar. I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague. You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end.
BW will die before SC2 does. A lot of BW vets criticize SC2 to appealing to lowest common denominator so Blizz can sell more, but this means SC2 has a growing community. In the meantime, almost nobody is going back to BW at this point. There are people, yes, but they are dwarfed by number of people drawn to SC2 or other esports.
In the end, BW is just as much of a money thing as SC2 is. Both were video games released to be entertaining by Blizzard who hoped to make money off of them. A game needs to be easy to learn and impossible to master to be the most appealing, and Brood War is no longer the former.
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On March 28 2012 05:03 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 03:49 maybenexttime wrote:On March 28 2012 01:32 discomatt wrote:On March 28 2012 00:55 fabiano wrote:
Guys...
There is no point arguing with people who haven't followed or played BW competitively because we can keep saying that SC2 is inferior in almost every aspect to BW all day long, and they won't understand that since they have not the experience people have with BW and they will find that offensive towards a game they like and believe to be good.
So SC2 fans, when a BW fan says SC2 is not living up to its predecessor, we don't say that in blind hate, but with the experience of having played and watched both of them. We are also not afraid of changes, before the release EVERYBODY was hyped with SC2, everyone wanted so bad to play it, but then after we played it, after we watched high level games, we felt something was completely off, and all the hype became frustration.
What sucks is that Blizzard was smartass and every complaint we make today about the game they can use the excuse "we still have expansions to fix that, you will just need to pay extra $40 though". So in a sense, SC2 is "protected" for the next 4-5 years. Awesome opinion bro. Realize the only facts in your post are that others agree with you. The game is well made. Most complaints are based around fluff. UI, social interaction, clan support etc. All things we have very viable alternatives for. You don't seem to have read any of our posts or any SC2 vs. BW discussions for that matter. I'm sure he did. But sc2 supporters aren't allowed to make sc2 supportive statements in the sc2 forum. That would insult the legacy of the BW forum and leads to bans. Best for both sides to stop arguing about sc2 v bw since only one side gets punished anyway.
More like ignorance is bliss.
On March 28 2012 05:09 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 04:49 Shiori wrote:On March 28 2012 04:41 Pelopidas wrote:On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes? I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar. I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague. You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end. It's not so much that BW "needs" to die so much as that it is going to die. For the RTS esports community to survive the community needs to move to another game, or else terrible, casual trash like LoL is going to take over. I don't hate BW, and I think that Sc2 has a LOT of flaws, but anyone who thinks BW is going to survive forever is kidding themselves. It just doesn't have any more potential to grow. Sc2, like it or hate it, does. BW is completely dead globally and is started to diminish even in Korea. It's unrealistic to expect that foreigners will ever start to play it, no matter what kind of advertisement or support is done. Sc2 is still new enough and with enough new content on the way that it could actually catch on and entice people to buy/play it. BW can't. This isn't a sleight against the game; it's a simple fact. That's why people are moving over to Sc2 and why the community in general/Blizzard/KeSPA are pinning their hopes on it rather than BW. Dude, BW will last forever with all the money coming in. Just ask Jaedong how awesome this upcoming MSL is. Oh wait... It seems BW is naturally dwindling on its own... Maybe Kespa can ask Blizzard for some help? Oh? They did? Cool.
There are a lot of reasons for why it's been difficult for KeSPA to find sponsors. MBC decided to go a different direction with another Kpop channel and it isn't because the ratings were dwindling. No sir, so stop being so antagonistic.
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On March 28 2012 05:27 Pelopidas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 04:49 Shiori wrote:On March 28 2012 04:41 Pelopidas wrote:On March 28 2012 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I've played BW since 2000. I'm playing SC2 now, and hopefully I (or my children) will someday play SC3. But for this to work we need to drop BW. It's time to quit while the going's good and not drag BW on until it fades.
Why would you want SC3? I think you should prefer to play a game that is good enough to stand the test time, and not be replaced just because Blizzard decided the time was ripe to profit from the next installment in the series. It amazes me how many people have bought into this mindset. Do you really want to play a forgetable game designed to have an expiry date, and be replaced with something completely different when this time comes? I couldn't care less whether or not such a game is set in the Starcraft universe, or if its vaguely related to its predecessor. I want to play, and watch a good game, I don't just want to just follow a brand. Brood War has everything I want in a game, therefore I watch and play Broodwar. I don't see why Brood War needs to die so that SC2 can succeed. I also don't see why SC2 needs to succeed. The death of Brood War will not bring about a future where your children can play SC3. SC3 will come out when Blizzard has decided that they have milked the SC2 franchise to its fullest potential regardless of what happens to Brood War. The death of Brood War will also not make SC2 mainstream outside of Korea, and probably seriously damage the prestige of proleague. You and other SC2 fans need to come back down to earth. In spite of what community leaders may say SC2 is not destined to break into the mainstream, or replace Brood War. It may exist for a time under the proleague banner, but it will never be able to match the glory days of Brood War in exposure or popularity. It will probably wither and die in the foreign scene in the not too distant future as newer games are released and support dries up. It has even begun to happen now, LoL stream numbers have greatly eclipsed SC2 viewership, and the active SC2 playerbase has dwindled. SC2 tournaments continue to lose money to this day. You can spam sponsors, and stuff polls as much as you want, but it wont matter in the end. It's not so much that BW "needs" to die so much as that it is going to die. For the RTS esports community to survive the community needs to move to another game, or else terrible, casual trash like LoL is going to take over. I don't hate BW, and I think that Sc2 has a LOT of flaws, but anyone who thinks BW is going to survive forever is kidding themselves. It just doesn't have any more potential to grow. Sc2, like it or hate it, does. BW is completely dead globally and is started to diminish even in Korea. It's unrealistic to expect that foreigners will ever start to play it, no matter what kind of advertisement or support is done. Sc2 is still new enough and with enough new content on the way that it could actually catch on and entice people to buy/play it. BW can't. This isn't a sleight against the game; it's a simple fact. That's why people are moving over to Sc2 and why the community in general/Blizzard/KeSPA are pinning their hopes on it rather than BW. Well, I feel that SC2 is a terrible casual bastardization of BW, a sequel in name only. I would rather watch LoL. At least LoL doesn't pretend to be a sequel while tarnishing its predecessor's legacy. I also don't give a damn about the growth of the global Esports scene. I care about the BW proscene, which is now being sacrificed so that Blizzard can sell more copies of Starcraft 2, and make money off television royalties. SC2 has very little potential to grow anyways, it peaked in the foreign scene months ago, and was rejected in Korea despite an expensive advertising campaign. You shouldn't delude yourself. Besides, a game should be popular based on its actual quality, not the dubious potential to become good. Brood War, a game which still has tremendous popularity in Korea, shouldn't be sacrificed just so a game that shares its background can grow. The point of a game is to be fun to play and watch, not to act as a vehicle for making competitive gaming popular and mainstream. Why should I care about a game growing if I hate that game, and get no enjoyment out of it?
I'm not asking you to care, but I'm providing a reasonable justification for why tonnes of people (especially Blizzard and KeSpa) do care: BW is going to die. It's not being sacrificed. People are trying to get out of it while the going's good rather than following it until it ceases to be profitable and becomes an expense. Blizzard isn't going to stick with the BW proscene (or, for that matter, forgo promoting Sc2) when there isn't any reason to do so. Sponsors aren't interested in BW because they know exactly what its potential is (having peaked long ago). Sc2 is still big. You can say it peaked or whatever, but it's still hugely popular in the foreign scene, and there are two more expansions to come, both of which, given Blizzard's marketing record, will probably cause a spike in viewership/sales.
Legitimacy with regard to KeSPA picking up Sc2 is a big push for Sc2 in Korea, and probably a rather large part of why it never took off to begin with. Of course, I can't make any assumptions about what might have happened, but I think we can all agree that Sc2 might really have done better if KeSPA had been involved from the start. That's what Blizzard is trying to get in on now. Can you blame them? Even KeSPA is open to this idea because it's obvious that BW is deteriorating and that there isn't actually any way to rekindle its success.
Sc2 is still vastly superior to LoL and every other new strategy game goes in terms of gameplay. No, it's arguably not at the level that BW is, but BW is no longer an option for Blizzard or KeSPA.
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