EPTIt isnt easy for protoss to read terran allins either. Against a 3-5 rax, a marine tank or a marine banshee push (anything that hits by 8 minutes) you need to prepare for it before you can conceivably get an observer to their base. You have to use several small pieces of information to guess at their build, and if you guess wrong then you lose the game.
Where did all of the terrans go? - Page 55
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
It isnt easy for protoss to read terran allins either. Against a 3-5 rax, a marine tank or a marine banshee push (anything that hits by 8 minutes) you need to prepare for it before you can conceivably get an observer to their base. You have to use several small pieces of information to guess at their build, and if you guess wrong then you lose the game. | ||
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o01shadow
4 Posts
Terran especially is really easy at low levels, and does not get "easy" again until you have a much better grip on the game than our other race counterparts. That is also why there were so many terrans as mid level pros in the last year, but now very few of them are still posting the results they were. | ||
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CaptainCharisma
New Zealand808 Posts
On March 15 2012 12:31 o01shadow wrote: The thing is at the Diamond/ Low Masters level it is far easier to play zerg than the other races. Part of it is that it is mechanically easier to play zerg, (not macro, play) at that level, and you don't actually need to have great mechanics or decision making to break even in win loss. Also, with terran and toss the next skill plateau up from mid Diamond is mid Masters. That is to say, once you get mechanically good enough to match the zerg at that level, your play is much better, to the point that you just skip the high Diamond/ low Masters zone. Terran especially is really easy at low levels, and does not get "easy" again until you have a much better grip on the game than our other race counterparts. That is also why there were so many terrans as mid level pros in the last year, but now very few of them are still posting the results they were. To which server(s) does what you say apply - that part about "skipping" from mid diamond to mid masters as Terran? Can you elaborate on this? Have you been there? I'm currently low diamond NA, and hope what you are talking about will apply to me soon, because right now I'm stagnating and it sucks. | ||
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Pro]ChoSen-
United States318 Posts
I've played all races at a high master level for my main race so I can appreciate all races but I ended up choosing Terran. It is crazy though that they are the campaign race and they are the least played ^^ | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On March 15 2012 11:46 hzflank wrote: @ChaosTerran: It isnt easy for protoss to read terran allins either. Against a 3-5 rax, a marine tank or a marine banshee push (anything that hits by 8 minutes) you need to prepare for it before you can conceivably get an observer to their base. You have to use several small pieces of information to guess at their build, and if you guess wrong then you lose the game. Poke the bunkers now and then. If he always has marines, no gas units (marauder, tank,...) then prepare robotic, because it's either banshee, 1-1-1 push, or heavy marines pressure. You need observers for banshee, immortal for 1-1-1 push, collosus for heavy marine pressure (not for the marines directly, but after you crush the pressure with gateway units, it's easier to go collosus to force him to spend gas on vikings). If you poke the bunker and see marauders, it's pretty clear that he's not gonna go banshee, 1-1-1 push or marines heavy but standard stim timing, maybe medivac timing. Moreover, going stargate also let you counter banshee build, softcounter 1-1-1 push, and counter medivac timing push. So in the end, each Protoss tech route, if execute properly, let you counter some Terran's builds already. As a person who play both races, I have to say it's easier for Protoss to guess Terran's build than Terran to guess Protoss's build. | ||
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On March 15 2012 16:11 CaptainCharisma wrote: To which server(s) does what you say apply - that part about "skipping" from mid diamond to mid masters as Terran? Can you elaborate on this? Have you been there? I'm currently low diamond NA, and hope what you are talking about will apply to me soon, because right now I'm stagnating and it sucks. While I dont agree with how you put it I think the general gist of it is correct. What he is trying to say is that to get out of diamond as Terran, your mechanics and other skills (mainly mechanics) need to improve to a level as to where you will be mechanically superior to everyone up until around mid master. Mid diamond no, but high diamond yes if you wan't to break into masters. Also do people not note the continued use of all ins in TVP? Just recently I saw the VOD of MKP vs Tod on daybreak. MKP KNOWS he is the superior player, which means he SHOULD play a macro game and win based off mechanics instead of doing an all in which is a coin flip. On daybreak a huge friggin map to push across he still opts for the marine/tank 1 base. Why are people not catching on to this? Even when Terran were dominated the GSL it was still the same way, their is obviously a reason and I think most people can guess what it is. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
1. Warpgatetech vs Addons, i like the addons but they are pretty useless against warpgate. The macro mechanics are just too toss favorite, i would trade MULEs instantly for warpgate because you can warpin 60 supply on zealots in 5 seconds on any place you want. On big maps i nead about a minute from one side to the other, which means i have to win every battle after the 30 minute mark with a minimum of 50 supply difference and in 1 or max 2 stims because the warpin chargelots are just melting the half-dead bio. A sollution could be that new warpins have no shields, cap the available warpgates (for example after 10 you have to build new units "standard" and not warping them in) or give terran a thing like a "Techlab-Reactor" which is very expansive but help to remake supply faster to overcome the walking to battle problem. 2. There is no tech switch capability. Never. There is no chance to surprise my opponent by a different unit composition. If P hides 2 - 4 colossus on 3 attack upgrades and hits me without vikings the game is over. The same with mass Archon / ht. I mean why does every toss unit have the same (ground)upgrades? Does Zealots use the same weapons as colossus? Its like "hey look at my new better M16 Gun. Oh ye dude now your bombs are better too. The Terran upgrade way makes the techswitch impossible. The Protoss can always warpin zealots and they will never be the wrong choise. Because they have no hardcounter. I dont think that TvP lategame is imbalanced. Its just too easy for Protoss. | ||
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Detri
United Kingdom683 Posts
It's got no comeback macro mechanic, if you forget/miss a cycle of production, there is no way to catch up like with larvae/chrono. The units are glass cannon, marines awesome but nearly every unit in the game can beat them without perfect micro. The only race that relies on splash which has a setup/tear down time. Moving your tanks? caught outta position? well gg. To play well with terran you need good macro, good micro, good game sense and good map awareness. Its just not the same with the other races. I've gotta micro the shit outta my army, just to trade efficiently then macro in the background. But yeah the trolls on ladder don't see it that way ofc all they see is "marines imba" or say "terrans don't get to speak" I don't beat you cause my race is imba, I win cause I played better than you did. I'm not saying there aren't unit comps that are strong, medvac marine hellion is a very strong composition vs a zerg who tries to take a fast third etc, but that is because the zerg was playing greedy, not cause your race is imba. Idra should race switch. | ||
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Detri
United Kingdom683 Posts
On March 15 2012 16:55 USvBleakill wrote: There is no tech switch capability. Never. There is no chance to surprise my opponent by a different unit composition. If P hides 2 - 4 colossus on 3 attack upgrades and hits me without vikings the game is over. The same with mass Archon / ht. I mean why does every toss unit have the same (ground)upgrades? Does Zealots use the same weapons as colossus? Its like "hey look at my new better M16 Gun. Oh ye dude now your bombs are better too. The Terran upgrade way makes the techswitch impossible. this pisses me off to actually, wish my marines upgraded with my tanks. ROBO WHY U NO UPGRADE ALONE?! | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
It's like studying twice as hard as someone else for an exam, but getting the same grade as him because he sucks the teacher's cock. I think this sums Terran pretty nicely. You're forced to harass and execute economic damage which actually leaves you behind half the time. But you have to keep trying game after game anyways because if you don't try you lose every game. It's a nice situation. | ||
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Vallz
41 Posts
Mid master Terran EU and Mid/High master Terran NA TvP Win ratio : ~65-70% TvT Win ratio : ~50% TvZ Win Ratio = ~30% I just hate facing muta's, thats basically why I quit this game, just felt too much unneccesary pressure so I just watch tournaments now ^^ | ||
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Stimpk
France165 Posts
I felt I needed to change race to get more fun with the game. How exciting it is to learn new shortcuts, build orders and matchups  Let's see where it'll bring me ! | ||
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sushichef
Scotland48 Posts
TvT - 70% winrate TvZ - 60% winrate TvP - 35% winrate Ok, I'm terrible in general and esp. terrible in TvP - but man, the most frustrating losses are always vs P, the matchup is too unforgiving. It's so hard to punish a turtling toss, and then they move out w/ 3-3 and tonnes of AoE and you misclick once and get rolled, whereas if you win an engagement you only gain a small advantage, because, hello 15 fresh zealots and a couple of archons. TvT and TvZ losses feel like being outplayed, TvP losses feel like walking a tightrope - one small mistake and you die. The basic problem with TvP for me is with the marine-zealot relationship. Zealots are so good, require no micro, and can be replenished instantly. Marines are the only unit terrans have that kill zealots well (with stim, shields, and medics), whereas zealots do well against all terran ground units. (Hellions don't count because you won't have upgrades and factories to produce them.) The problem is that protoss have two units that murder marines and their medivac support with much less effort than that required to counter the marine counters. Basically: it's too easy to kill marines for P, it's too difficult to keep them alive for T, and when you lose your marines you lose the game to zealots. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On March 15 2012 17:12 Detri wrote: I actually read a lot of the posts in this thread, to be honest I think it is because terran is probably the easiest race to make a mistake with. It's got no comeback macro mechanic, if you forget/miss a cycle of production, there is no way to catch up like with larvae/chrono. The units are glass cannon, marines awesome but nearly every unit in the game can beat them without perfect micro. The only race that relies on splash which has a setup/tear down time. Moving your tanks? caught outta position? well gg. To play well with terran you need good macro, good micro, good game sense and good map awareness. Its just not the same with the other races. I've gotta micro the shit outta my army, just to trade efficiently then macro in the background. But yeah the trolls on ladder don't see it that way ofc all they see is "marines imba" or say "terrans don't get to speak" I don't beat you cause my race is imba, I win cause I played better than you did. I'm not saying there aren't unit comps that are strong, medvac marine hellion is a very strong composition vs a zerg who tries to take a fast third etc, but that is because the zerg was playing greedy, not cause your race is imba. Idra should race switch. Terran's got no comeback macro mechanic?! You can lose all your workers and still end up on outmining your opponent with only mules. That's a pretty good 'comeback mechanic'. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On March 15 2012 17:12 Detri wrote: I actually read a lot of the posts in this thread, to be honest I think it is because terran is probably the easiest race to make a mistake with. It's got no comeback macro mechanic, if you forget/miss a cycle of production, there is no way to catch up like with larvae/chrono. The units are glass cannon, marines awesome but nearly every unit in the game can beat them without perfect micro. The only race that relies on splash which has a setup/tear down time. Moving your tanks? caught outta position? well gg. To play well with terran you need good macro, good micro, good game sense and good map awareness. Its just not the same with the other races. I've gotta micro the shit outta my army, just to trade efficiently then macro in the background. But yeah the trolls on ladder don't see it that way ofc all they see is "marines imba" or say "terrans don't get to speak" I don't beat you cause my race is imba, I win cause I played better than you did. I'm not saying there aren't unit comps that are strong, medvac marine hellion is a very strong composition vs a zerg who tries to take a fast third etc, but that is because the zerg was playing greedy, not cause your race is imba. Idra should race switch. IdrA would fail at Terran even more than he fails at Zerg honestly. He doesn't have the sense of agression required to play Terran. Plus he doesn't really have the APM either, he's not very fast himself, despite always mentioning "good multitasking" as a trademark of his play. | ||
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
On March 15 2012 16:29 Pro]ChoSen- wrote: I think the game is perfectly balanced (or at least as close as they can get it) but I keep thinking about switching from Terran cuz the map pool keeps getting more and more anti-Terran. The game itself is fine as far as balance, its the maps that create imbalance. I've played all races at a high master level for my main race so I can appreciate all races but I ended up choosing Terran. It is crazy though that they are the campaign race and they are the least played ^^ I think you have lost your mind... I still have no idea how to deal with broods, especially if the zerg gets 8-10 corrupters with them. If they follow with a few infestors and/or queens then its GG, basically impossible to stop. There is absolutely NOTHING balanced about that composition when facing a terran. Thors do not do enough damage to massive and rines get their shit fungaled all to hell in a matter of seconds. I also completely agree with everyone saying how ridiculous it is that zerg and toss get to simply play sim-city in the early game while a terran has to do the same AND do economic damage just to even stand a chance in the late game. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On March 15 2012 21:28 CaptainCrush wrote: I think you have lost your mind... I still have no idea how to deal with broods, especially if the zerg gets 8-10 corrupters with them. If they follow with a few infestors and/or queens then its GG, basically impossible to stop. There is absolutely NOTHING balanced about that composition when facing a terran. Thors do not do enough damage to massive and rines get their shit fungaled all to hell in a matter of seconds. I also completely agree with everyone saying how ridiculous it is that zerg and toss get to simply play sim-city in the early game while a terran has to do the same AND do economic damage just to even stand a chance in the late game. It's actually the same in PvZ, you have to do damage in some way or hope to get away with a risky early third. If you don't do one of these two things, you just lose under an unfathomable amount of Zerg shit. | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On March 15 2012 21:17 tomatriedes wrote: Terran's got no comeback macro mechanic?! You can lose all your workers and still end up on outmining your opponent with only mules. That's a pretty good 'comeback mechanic'. I think terrans comeback mechanic is the good base defense mechanics. Supply depot walls, bunkers, building armor upgrade, PF, turrets and repair allow terrans to have small amount of units to defend against a bigger army long enough until you get enough units to get back into the game. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On March 15 2012 21:37 ZenithM wrote: It's actually the same in PvZ, you have to do damage in some way or hope to get away with a risky early third. If you don't do one of these two things, you just lose under an unfathomable amount of Zerg shit. And look at how many people find ZvP their hardest matchup. Both sides feel pressure to end the game before some timing from the opponent, so both sides think the matchup is hardest. If TvZ/P were the same way, with both sides feeling the pressure of time, it would be perfect. As of now, however, T is always playing against the clock. | ||
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Freeznfire
United States5 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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