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On April 04 2012 00:59 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:33 Superneenja wrote:On April 03 2012 19:27 tomatriedes wrote:On April 03 2012 18:34 Thrombozyt wrote:On April 03 2012 18:09 tomatriedes wrote:On April 03 2012 17:07 Thrombozyt wrote:
Compare that to the protoss options that offer a range of 1base all-ins (4gate, 3gate immortal bust, DTs, 1base colossus coming back in low masters) 2 base timings (6-7gate bust, 2base colossus) and 2-3 destinct macro game styles (colossus, storm, double forge). Terran also has a great range of one and two base all-ins against protoss now- look what the top terrans in Korea are doing these days- from standard marine/tank/banshee 1-1-1s (which still work), to hellion harass into 1-1-1, to marine/tank bansheeless pushes to thor/hellion/banshee to banshee/marine with no tanks. And there are always the old standards such as 3 rax marine bunker rushes if toss is being greedy. The '1-1-1/2-2-2' variation all-ins are far more effective than 4 gate, DTs and 1 base colossus (which are all easy to deal with when scouted) because they are good even when scouted and because there are so many ways to tweak them which require completely different unit compositions from the toss. Anyway, I really don't think you shouldn't be trying to use protoss all-ins as part of your complaint when terran all-ins are so good in this match up. As for macro styles Lynna has proved in his other thread that biomech/sky mech can be viable at least up to high masters EU even with fairly low APM. Yes, yes, I know you'll say b-but Goody doesn't use mech anymore! Well guess what- most of the people complaining are not pros- it doesn't have to work at pro level to be viable on ladder. After all that's what this whole thread is about right- ladder. I never said that Terran 1base play was lacking. The lacking part is that it's very unfavorable to play into the late game without hitting really good on the timing of your choice. While I have not tried Lynna's build, I have tried biomech fairly often (fails horribly if the toss knows what to do) and there are some things about the guide that don't really make me hopeful. Like 'sometimes I hold a 6 gate all in with 1 bunker and a mediocre amount of marines' or 'Raves, they shut down void rays hard'. Also his timing when to attack: 'NEVER!'. Once again, let me stress, that my complaint wasn't that my all-ins aren't strong enough or not flexible enough. I was comparing the range of playstyles (all-in, timing pushes, adaptive macro game) and their viability to the range of terran options. While protoss all-ins when scouted are not that powerful, they are viable because the first stalker shuts down scouting until marauder/concussive comes out. Prior to that, terran cannot scout (don't say SCAN! because you know that the deciding all-in buildings will NOT be in standard locations). OK, from the way you wrote it before it wasn't quite clear. Personally, I wouldn't really mind if there was some late game help for lower level terrans if there was a corresponding early-mid game boost for toss. While it might take more skill to control a late game terran army than a protoss one I think the opposite is true when it comes to 1-1-1 pushes (even after the immortal buff). I have a hard time defending 1-1-1s at my level but when I tried out terran in PvT I went 9-1 doing 1-1-1 every game at the same level, even though I wasn't using most hot keys. To defeat a 1-1-1 even when you know it's coming you need the perfect unit composition, positioning and flanking (unless you were lucky enough to have gone nexus first) whereas on the terran side it's pretty much a matter of sieging in the right place and keeping banshees alive. Also to be able to compete on the map at all during the mid-game before you have splash as toss generally requires good ffs against an equal-supply stim 1Aed terran army. A lot of the time there is no choice but to turtle until splash units are out to have the best chance of winning- it's not like we really love staying in the base that much. Anyway for me, in the end, if you try to balance the game for us ladder players you will end up screwing up pro-level and that to me, is more important. I don't think it's really possible to buff and nerf for one level without affecting other levels (not to mention the other match ups) and terran are still doing well at the very top. So basically early game with 1/1/1 P has to control their army like T has to basically every engagement. I'll give you that one. I don't know why P's dont delay the 1/1/1 push, I've seen this work numerous times on high level replays, use your stalkers to pick off anything you can and force the tanks to siege unsiege every step of the way while massing back at base. Lets just say P took as much skill to control at an even footing P can kite marines all day(and its worth it to take some damage to pick of any marine you can), I've defended a 1/1/1 before while playing random as P using this and it worked, maybe not all of the time but its worked a few times, and I've seen it work. But remember if you hold on, you are most likely going to win(unless you had to pull all your probes) PS - like your little 1A pot shot...but lets be honest protoss is the epitomy of 1A. You're being oversensitive. It wasn't a potshot at terran at all- I was simply stating that a midgame equal supply terran army (with medivacs) can 1A stim and kill a protoss army that doesn't have splash unless they FF well. That's just one of the realities of the game. Funny that you felt the need to make some jab back about it. :/
No jab, just truth...and is it really funny if you put a sad face? I did say lets be honest, so one of us is lying.
Anywho, you say mid game, so why wouldn't a P have splash of their own out? I mean atleast 1 colossus should be out...and remember Terran splash is highly immobile and so if you know that T needs to get positioning for a successful engagement why let them get set up. Regardless I still question whats Terran option late game?...this was one of the original questions and still everyone keeps mentioning 1/1/1 or all-ins...because really if a P can turtle and get to 3 base theres not much Terran can do.
The more and more I think about this, I feel like chargelots are the problem(i think it was stated before). Every TvP these days i see a ridiculous number of them and watching replays is frustrating when you watch them just A move all of them into your army, while their splash kills your bio. So sad...
I would just like a late game option, because sometime things don't go according to plan early/mid game, and bascially after that you are screwed.
Thanks to all high league terrans who are putting your opinions in as well, because maybe it seems balanced as far as wins/losses but is it really balanced in terms of skill required to execute? I don't know if it is even possible.
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chargelots are not the problem lategame it are the warpgates, its just broken. Lots wouldnt be a problem at all if you wouldnt be able to warp 100000000000000000 in from a single 100 mineral building which are all arround the map.
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We have more replays than ever before. LastShadow just released a pack, Mazq was gracious enough to release one, and we even have a Taeja + Jinro pack on TLPRO.
I'm gonna study these extensively before I make any more balance complaints and I think others should too!
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On April 04 2012 01:13 LavaLava wrote:This thread shows that after an early game Protoss advantage (probably due to cannon rushes) Terran gains an advantage around the 15 minute mark and then loses it for the rest of the game at around 20 minutes. That's when a lot of 2 base all ins fully fail and Protoss is able to get their mega splash units on the field. The graphs for PvZ and ZvT are much skinner, at least after the early game, indicating more even gameplay throughout the length of matches. TvP is definitely the most 2 dimensional and alternately imbalanced matchup, for both Terran and Protoss. It's obviously been said before, but this data definitely supports the idea that we need some kind of midgame nerf for Terran accompanied by a lategame buff. The reason I suggest changing Terran instead of Protoss is that Protoss would need to be drastically altered to even things out, because they have many options in the lategame, all of which are similarly very difficult to stop. High Templars, Colossi, Archons, and perhaps Chargelots would need tweaking which would probably screw up PvZ and even screw up midgame PvT. So basically Terran is the one that most likely needs a change. It sounds like a T3 buff and T2 nerf would be pretty good... Maybe a small reduction in Banshee firing rate would make them not so good for allins, while still retaining the ability to 2-shot workers. In most harassment roles they don't even shoot constantly, so that could be alright. Alternatively, an increase in firing rate and a damage reduction could make those heavily armored Protoss units more resilent against Banshees, and 3 shotting workers wouldn't be so bad because it would be a quicker 3 shot. Banshees are hardly used in macro TvP, and exist mostly as DPS for allins. Though there are MANY other options. And then maybe Battlecruisers could be buffed, as I don't think they exist on any kind of balance tipping point... They're not seen as often as almost anyone would like to see them. And since the purpose of the buff would be to hurt Protoss T3, maybe Battlecruisers could come pre-packed with Behemoth Reactors? That would be pretty cool. Just make it a little more convenient to get Yamato out on the field. Though again, there are many other options. You know what else would be fucking cool? Fusion Core-researched Tech Reactors. Terran production is totally fine until the lategame, when it becomes objectively the shittiest. Two of everything! Noah's Ark Terran!
That graph pretty much follows a lot of my feelings on PvT. The advantage that terran gets after the 10ish minute mark is the scariest part of PvT. This is why most protoss react so strongly to the comments "You just get three bases, macro up and A move", when it is such a challenge getting to that third base.
Although I hate the banshee with the fire of a nova, I would prefer if they got rid energy and made cloak work on a timer with a signifigant cool down. It would buff the banshee for the end game, while removing its ability to park with cloak over the mineral line for the entire lenght of its mana pool. The same goes for the Raven, though I would rather that be ammo based. People would use auto turrets and PDDs late game if they never went away, even if they cost chunk of gas. No protoss would have an issue with that because it doesn't make MMM do more damage, but does allow terrans protect expansions.
Also, I think switching add-ons for terran is to cumbersome due to the animations for lifting off. To switch an add on, the terran needs to lift off, wait for the animation to finish, then pick where to land and line up the landing. A lot of this process is simply waiting for the animation to finish so the commands to land the structure appears. It may not seem like a big deal, but when you think about the number of production buildings a terran has and when they would want to switch them, it would make sense to make it a quicker process. When you compair it to building new warpgates or hatchers, it is more time consuming simply because the terran has to wait for the animation to finish.
But that is just me. I think HotS will have some good stuff or terran. The battle Hellion looks awesome(though as stated before, the lack of a backflip when tranforming is very disapointing)
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Haven't been here in a while but as a Terran, I can obviously confirm the sentiment here in this last page of comments.
I have to resort to two base all ins TvP, TvZ every time. If I don't win the game outright after two base, my win rate % has to be less than 5%...
I meant how am I supposed to rebuild when Toss, Zerg instantly remax and tee off on my pre-damaged army? And then secure the additional base behind it. I don't have the APM to constantly drop and multi prong all my crap, and Terran is most effective in the ball together as it is.
Then again, the two base all ins are so darn effective. And you have to push out at some point.
I don't think HotS will change the problem based on the changes I have seen because this is a fundamental property of terran. I think the new Thor will only exacerbate the two base push. Not to mention a more efficient mech unit in the Warhound and certainly the more robust helion. The Spidermine radiation won't be used offensively as a harass once people adjust to it.
But HotS aside... Terran is what it is. Upgrading is a nightmare, since zerg and toss ground each have 3 while terran bio/mech have 4. Don't see how to change that. Terran can pretty much hit every tech it needs well within 7-8 minutes outside of BC's. So there really isn't a tier 3 in the same regard as the other races. Plus the latest units in that terran tree are Thor/Banshee. I rarely ever see that to begin with even as an all in although I do use it on occasion TvZ if I open banshee harass.
Personally, it is just one of those things. Make marauders reactorable? I don't know... as a terran, your build has to be based on intake and build time. If you are spending more than your intake, or spending mineral/gas unevenly, you won't have enough to hold off the additional re-maxed waves in the late game. And you of course need the right composition at all times. I don't think terrans who do not pay attention to the math in every detail can play terran at a high level.
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On April 04 2012 03:08 Blamajama wrote:
Haven't been here in a while but as a Terran, I can obviously confirm the sentiment here in this last page of comments.
I have to resort to two base all ins TvP, TvZ every time. If I don't win the game outright after two base, my win rate % has to be less than 5%...
I meant how am I supposed to rebuild when Toss, Zerg instantly remax and tee off to my pre-damaged army? And then secure the additional base behind it. I don't have the APM to constantly drop and multi prong all my crap, and Terran is most effective in the ball together as it is.
Then again, the two base all ins are so darn effective. And you have to push out at some point.
I don't think HotS will change the problem based on the changes I have seen because this is a fundamental property of terran. I think the new Thor will only exacerbate the two base push. Not to mention a more efficient mech unit in the Warhound and certainly the more robust helion. The Spidermine radiation won't be used offensively as a harass once people adjust to it.
But HotS aside... Terran is what it is. Upgrading is a nightmare, since zerg and toss ground each have 3 while terran bio/mech have 4. Don't see how to change that. Terran can pretty much hit every tech it needs well within 7-8 minutes outside of BC's. So there really isn't a tier 3 in the same regard as the other races. Plus the latest units in that terran tree are Thor/Banshee. I rarely ever see that to begin with even as an all in although I do use it on occasion TvZ if I open banshee harass.
Personally, it is just one of those things. Make marauders reactorable? I don't know... as a terran, your build has to be based on intake and build time. If you are spending more than your intake, or spending mineral/gas unevenly, you won't have enough to hold off the additional re-maxed waves in the late game. And you of course need the right composition at all times. I don't think terrans who do not pay attention to the math in every detail can play terran at a high level.
Well, reactorable Marauders would also make them buildable out of naked rax, which is pretty bad, but I think the tech reactor suggestion would be cool for the lategame.
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Tech/reactor upgrade in the fushion core tree would be huge. 200/200 upgrade right there and you could be potetially set. Not sure what the cost of a hybrid add on would be though. But what about outside of bio?
I was thinking banshee/Thor but then I realized Void rays own that if your mineral dump is helions. If you dump into marines, your upgrades are too scattered and Colossi kite you while charge lot take most of the damage. Meanwhile stalkers sit back and you don't have good range.
Void rays really screw a pure mech terran player up because rines are the only hard counter. That is bad game dynamic. We have too much of that one to one hard counter crap going on.
I am curious to see how Warhounds will fair against Void Ray??? Anyone test it out yet?
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On April 04 2012 05:25 Blamajama wrote:
Tech/reactor upgrade in the fushion core tree would be huge. 200/200 upgrade right there and you could be potetially set. Not sure what the cost of a hybrid add on would be though. But what about outside of bio?
I was thinking banshee/Thor but then I realize Void rays own that if your mineral dump is helions. If you dump into marines, your upgrades are too scattered and Colossi kite you while charge lot take most of the damage. Meanwhile stalkers sit back and you don't have good range.
Void rays really screw a pure mech terran player up because rines are the only hard counter. That is bad game dynamic. We have too much of that one to one hard counter crap going on.
I am curious to see how Warhounds will fair against Void Ray??? Anyone test it out yet?
the goliath would fix so much of terrans problems
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On April 04 2012 05:29 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:25 Blamajama wrote:
Tech/reactor upgrade in the fushion core tree would be huge. 200/200 upgrade right there and you could be potetially set. Not sure what the cost of a hybrid add on would be though. But what about outside of bio?
I was thinking banshee/Thor but then I realize Void rays own that if your mineral dump is helions. If you dump into marines, your upgrades are too scattered and Colossi kite you while charge lot take most of the damage. Meanwhile stalkers sit back and you don't have good range.
Void rays really screw a pure mech terran player up because rines are the only hard counter. That is bad game dynamic. We have too much of that one to one hard counter crap going on.
I am curious to see how Warhounds will fair against Void Ray??? Anyone test it out yet? the goliath would fix so much of terrans problems
That's basically it.... I guess they were like "**** it, Viking would be a sick replacement",,,, only they are an air unit and scvs are more effective than Vikings on the ground. When do you ever deploy Vikings in any matchup really unless an enemy mineral line is completely exposed? It is useless...
Warhounds at least have good ground range from what I have seen. I don't know how they will fare against immortal or mass roach in regard to TvZ, but if they are effective against muta and void ray, terran can start becoming pure mech.
You don't want a situation where you have to go mech against toss and bio against zerg like in Brood War. But right now it is no different, only reversed. You pretty much have to go bio against toss in some manner every game.
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On April 04 2012 05:38 Blamajama wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:29 EleanorRIgby wrote:On April 04 2012 05:25 Blamajama wrote:
Tech/reactor upgrade in the fushion core tree would be huge. 200/200 upgrade right there and you could be potetially set. Not sure what the cost of a hybrid add on would be though. But what about outside of bio?
I was thinking banshee/Thor but then I realize Void rays own that if your mineral dump is helions. If you dump into marines, your upgrades are too scattered and Colossi kite you while charge lot take most of the damage. Meanwhile stalkers sit back and you don't have good range.
Void rays really screw a pure mech terran player up because rines are the only hard counter. That is bad game dynamic. We have too much of that one to one hard counter crap going on.
I am curious to see how Warhounds will fair against Void Ray??? Anyone test it out yet? the goliath would fix so much of terrans problems That's basically it.... I guess they were like "**** it, Viking would be a sick replacement",,,, only they are an air unit and scvs are more effective than Vikings on the ground. When do you ever deploy Vikings in any matchup really unless an enemy mineral line is completely exposed? It is useless... Warhounds at least have good ground range from what I have seen. I don't know how they will fare against immortal or mass roach in regard to TvZ, but if they are effective against muta and void ray, terran can start becoming pure mech. You don't want a situation where you have to go mech against toss and bio against zerg like in Brood War. But right now it is no different, only reversed. You pretty much have to go bio against toss in some manner every game.
I'm pretty sure warhound is a bad news for mech TvZ as their ground attack is bonus to mechanical.
They seems to keep the 7 ground range that the Thor have tho. With a normal speed of 2,25 that's pretty huge.
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I'd like to see a Raven buff. I think there's some little explored spaces where a flock of Ravens in late game TvZ and TvP could really help.
Maybe increase casting range for HSM, PPD, & AT. Along with a revaluing of the cost to 150/150 or maybe 175/125 to enable massing 6-10 of them late game.
Or possibly reducing the casting cost of HSM to 100 if you get the energy upgrade.
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So basically Warhounds should be able to rip through stalker colossi? That would make mech instantly viable in TvP.
Kitting immortal and helion buffer would make them effective against immortal chargelot play.
If they were somewhat effective against void ray, you bring back mech into the fold.
As far as TvZ, we know they will school mutas even in small numbers. Better than Thors so that is about as hard a one to one counter as you can have.
Against baneling? Will battle helion hold up against that?
Will Warhounds hold up to infestor roach and whatever else zerg throws at you??? Probably not... but it's not like Tanks disappeared.
So yeah, the Warhound could potentially make mech viable in any of the matchups. Will it supercede MM/tank or MMM in most situations? Hopefully it won't because you want those builds to remain viable depending on the map/strategy.
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On April 04 2012 06:17 Blamajama wrote:
So basically Warhounds should be able to rip through stalker colossi? That would make mech instantly viable in TvP.
Kitting immortal and helion buffer would make them effective against immortal chargelot play.
If they were somewhat effective against void ray, you bring back mech into the fold.
As far as TvZ, we know they will school mutas even in small numbers. Better than Thors so that is about as hard a one to one counter as you can have.
Against baneling? Will battle helion hold up against that?
Will Warhounds hold up to infestor roach and whatever else zerg throws at you??? Probably not... but it's not like Tanks disappeared.
So yeah, the Warhound could potentially make mech viable in any of the matchups. Will it supercede MM/tank or MMM in most situations? Hopefully it won't because you want those builds to remain viable depending on the map/strategy.
It's hard to tell with only numbers. Numbers we don't even know will stay the same or not.
But the goal of the new mech units is definitly to give player a duo of units who work great against Stalker zealot better than the actual Thor / normal hellion.
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We also have to remember that P and Z will get new units too and will change the whole dynamic of the encounter...
Now whats that "scorpion get over here" new unit that Z is getting? Oh and Ultralisk charge?... doesn't sound OP at all to me
/sarcasm
And notice how Toss is getting enhancements only in air, cause ground is pretty solid right now, minus the whole TvP thing 
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United States7483 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:27 Superneenja wrote:We also have to remember that P and Z will get new units too and will change the whole dynamic of the encounter... Now whats that "scorpion get over here" new unit that Z is getting? Oh and Ultralisk charge?... doesn't sound OP at all to me /sarcasm And notice how Toss is getting enhancements only in air, cause ground is pretty solid right now, minus the whole TvP thing
Assuming the units blizzard presented before are the ones we actually get (and I don't think they will be, but I have no better assumption to work off of so bear with me), Protoss is getting the Tempest, which will have little to no impact in PvT at all, the Oracle which is just a bad version of a harass unit that can literally do nothing else, and The replicator which has the potential to be simultaneously the best and worst unit in existence.
The replicator particularly worries me, the others won't change the matchup much at all. The replicator worries me because it will drastically weaken the power of terran tech vs. Protoss and further encourage bio. Why? Because it turns into a fully upgraded copy of whatever unit the protoss wants, the cost being that it is expensive on minerals and gas as well as supply (200/200 with 4 supply).
How would you like to fight protoss with cloaked banshees or with ravens? Well, if you make a single one of those units, you're giving Protoss the ability to use those against you, even if you don't research cloak. Make a siege tank? Protoss can build tanks now!
Thankfully, I don't think blizzard is ACTUALLY this stupid.
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On April 04 2012 07:02 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 06:27 Superneenja wrote:We also have to remember that P and Z will get new units too and will change the whole dynamic of the encounter... Now whats that "scorpion get over here" new unit that Z is getting? Oh and Ultralisk charge?... doesn't sound OP at all to me /sarcasm And notice how Toss is getting enhancements only in air, cause ground is pretty solid right now, minus the whole TvP thing Assuming the units blizzard presented before are the ones we actually get (and I don't think they will be, but I have no better assumption to work off of so bear with me), Protoss is getting the Tempest, which will have little to no impact in PvT at all, the Oracle which is just a bad version of a harass unit that can literally do nothing else, and The replicator which has the potential to be simultaneously the best and worst unit in existence. The replicator particularly worries me, the others won't change the matchup much at all. The replicator worries me because it will drastically weaken the power of terran tech vs. Protoss and further encourage bio. Why? Because it turns into a fully upgraded copy of whatever unit the protoss wants, the cost being that it is expensive on minerals and gas as well as supply (200/200 with 4 supply). How would you like to fight protoss with cloaked banshees or with ravens? Well, if you make a single one of those units, you're giving Protoss the ability to use those against you, even if you don't research cloak. Make a siege tank? Protoss can build tanks now! Thankfully, I don't think blizzard is ACTUALLY this stupid.
LOL, I'm not so sure... ever heard of "working as intended" Pretty sure they coined that phrase.
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On April 04 2012 06:12 DrLOAC wrote:
I'd like to see a Raven buff. I think there's some little explored spaces where a flock of Ravens in late game TvZ and TvP could really help.
Maybe increase casting range for HSM, PPD, & AT. Along with a revaluing of the cost to 150/150 or maybe 175/125 to enable massing 6-10 of them late game.
Or possibly reducing the casting cost of HSM to 100 if you get the energy upgrade.
Imo, replace HSM with Irradiate from SCBW
What would this accomplish?
a) Terrans would actualy get that aoe dmg that they are supposed to have with HSM, but in an actual useful and realistic way.
b) It would actualy force the other races to micro their stuff, thus solving the a-move sindrome.
c) Less QQ by the "terran OP crew" compared to the ammount of whine that would be unleashed if HSM was somehow buffed
Imo this fix alone would be optimal across the board.
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On April 04 2012 07:18 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 06:12 DrLOAC wrote:
I'd like to see a Raven buff. I think there's some little explored spaces where a flock of Ravens in late game TvZ and TvP could really help.
Maybe increase casting range for HSM, PPD, & AT. Along with a revaluing of the cost to 150/150 or maybe 175/125 to enable massing 6-10 of them late game.
Or possibly reducing the casting cost of HSM to 100 if you get the energy upgrade. Imo, replace HSM with Irradiate from SCBW What would this accomplish? a) Terrans would actualy get that aoe dmg that they are supposed to have with HSM, but in an actual useful and realistic way. b) It would actualy force the other races to micro their stuff, thus solving the a-move sindrome. c) Less QQ by the "terran OP crew" compared to the ammount of whine that would be unleashed if HSM was somehow buffed Imo this fix alone would be optimal across the board.
I have to agree with this. Replacing HSM with irradiate wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to try to balance in a appropriate level unlike HSM where there are way too many variables that can change its viability. Which would mean that finding the ''sweet spot'' for the HSM is very hard to find.
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On April 04 2012 07:31 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 07:18 Alexstrasas wrote:On April 04 2012 06:12 DrLOAC wrote:
I'd like to see a Raven buff. I think there's some little explored spaces where a flock of Ravens in late game TvZ and TvP could really help.
Maybe increase casting range for HSM, PPD, & AT. Along with a revaluing of the cost to 150/150 or maybe 175/125 to enable massing 6-10 of them late game.
Or possibly reducing the casting cost of HSM to 100 if you get the energy upgrade. Imo, replace HSM with Irradiate from SCBW What would this accomplish? a) Terrans would actualy get that aoe dmg that they are supposed to have with HSM, but in an actual useful and realistic way. b) It would actualy force the other races to micro their stuff, thus solving the a-move sindrome. c) Less QQ by the "terran OP crew" compared to the ammount of whine that would be unleashed if HSM was somehow buffed Imo this fix alone would be optimal across the board. I have to agree with this. Replacing HSM with irradiate wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to try to balance in a appropriate level unlike HSM where there are way too many variables that can change its viability. Which would mean that finding the ''sweet spot'' for the HSM is very hard to find.
Yeah. If Fungal is instant and undodgeable, Irradiate could be too. Splitting is fun to watch, etc. Obviously the old irradiate was too much for SC2, but I'm sure it could be balanced with simple damage numbers and radius.
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On April 04 2012 07:54 LavaLava wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 07:31 Mehukannu wrote:On April 04 2012 07:18 Alexstrasas wrote:On April 04 2012 06:12 DrLOAC wrote:
I'd like to see a Raven buff. I think there's some little explored spaces where a flock of Ravens in late game TvZ and TvP could really help.
Maybe increase casting range for HSM, PPD, & AT. Along with a revaluing of the cost to 150/150 or maybe 175/125 to enable massing 6-10 of them late game.
Or possibly reducing the casting cost of HSM to 100 if you get the energy upgrade. Imo, replace HSM with Irradiate from SCBW What would this accomplish? a) Terrans would actualy get that aoe dmg that they are supposed to have with HSM, but in an actual useful and realistic way. b) It would actualy force the other races to micro their stuff, thus solving the a-move sindrome. c) Less QQ by the "terran OP crew" compared to the ammount of whine that would be unleashed if HSM was somehow buffed Imo this fix alone would be optimal across the board. I have to agree with this. Replacing HSM with irradiate wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to try to balance in a appropriate level unlike HSM where there are way too many variables that can change its viability. Which would mean that finding the ''sweet spot'' for the HSM is very hard to find. Yeah. If Fungal is instant and undodgeable, Irradiate could be too. Splitting is fun to watch, etc. Obviously the old irradiate was too much for SC2, but I'm sure it could be balanced with simple damage numbers and radius.
Fungal isn't instant, it's a missile like EMP.
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EPT
