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I used to be terran GM back in season 3 when there was tons of us (and ladder was only TvT, so boring), after months away from starcraft 2, I saw all the nerfs that occured and decided to come back as random, my favorite MU are in this order: PvT (most favorite), ZvT, ZvP, PvZ, PvP, TvP, TvZ, ZvZ, TvT (least favorite). Given those, I don't want to play terran again, the race is balanced for the very top korean and I never will be in it so I don't want to struggle too much. I have fun playing terran 1/3 of the time and it's ok if I lose all the TvZ and most of the TvP since I have wins with other races. I hope the new mech units from Hots will make terran a bit easier, since mech is easier than bio but mech is not viable at a good level currently (except in TvT, obviously).
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France13018 Posts
On March 11 2012 22:10 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 22:09 Poopi wrote:
I don't get why terrans don't all-in these protoss on ladder, if you get so tired of playing the match-up you can all-in them, it's fast and you win so you are not frustrated.
No good all ins for Terran.
Some 1-1-1 work and marine/scv allins work too.
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On March 11 2012 21:47 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:39 Plexa wrote:On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Lots of people don't understand TvP. For instance, by trying to play a macro game (i.e. "improving" your overall game) you are actually playing yourself into a disadvantage. TvP requires Terran to be hyperaggressive and win the game early, or gain a significant advantage before 15min. Which is just another way of saying Terran lategame is too weak. And how are you going to get a significant advantage against Protoss before the 15 minute mark when they either turtle on 2 bases for 12 minutes while chronoing forges or take 3 bases very quickly while threatening to kill you. I realize there are ways to beat both styles but there is no good way to open reactively to counter both. Either you go for quick medivacs which puts you behind in upgrades against quick forges or you open quick upgrades which results in you losing to quick 3 base protoss. Tell me if I'm wrong but I don't know an aggressive opening that can give you a significant advantage against any style. Quick medivac drops used to do that but Protoss players have found ways to deal with that rather easily. You have to luckily blind counter your opponent.
lol do you really expect to have an opening which gives you an "significant advantage against any style"? Protoss doesn't have that either, with your argumentation everything in SC2 is just based on blindcountering.
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On March 11 2012 22:09 Phays wrote:
Terran is the race who always have to countertech or lose and is way more micro intensive in most cases, though terran is stronger earlygame due to the bigger variety in the early stages of the game.
Fun how both terran and zergs weakest matchup is vP and P is vZ(majority). Wonder why?
fun how this proves how dumb this poll is: zergs havinv trouble vs toss, toss' having trouble vs zerg... someone has to perform well!
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stupid protoss have walking siege tanks
User was temp banned for this post.
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I didn't play for a while, and started playing again last week (high diamond/low master level). I am a bit rusty, so I can't be 100% sure, but bio balls vs toss vaporize disgustingly fast, and ghosts feel so weak compared to a couple of months ago. So that left me a bit flabbergasted  .
It is hard to say though if it is just my skill level, and that I never belonged on that level in the first place, or that the balance changes have been too harsh. So I am going to give toss a shot for the next couple of weeks, see if it is me, or if there is actually a balance problem for someone who is not top-tier. My guess is that other terrans are doing the same and are just not switching back to terran.
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Something that encourages mech play will help, you know making it so that toss can't just waltz through tank lines. An reinforce with a mass zealot warp in on top of that.
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Terran suffer from the fact that their race has been widely overrepresent at Korean top tournaments since they were established. This is why Blizzards nerfed the abusive shit (aka mass Ghost, Mules, etc.) of their race first. They hesitate to do the same for the other two races for now.
This doesn't mean that the last balance changes were wrong or should be reversed. It's just that Terran might (for the first time since the release) have to go throught a phase of slight UPness. Zerg had that in the beginning, Protoss had been struggeling for a while too, now it's Terran. Just live with it, times will change eventually.
Apart from that, I still think Terran is the best designed race in the game. The problem that many ppl have with TvP (the situation is actually very similar in ZvP) is not that T/Z has a design problem, it's definitely the way Protoss is designed that makes for these frustrated experiences. However, we're likely not gonna see some fundamental changes on that regard before HotS comes out ...
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On March 11 2012 22:03 EmilA wrote:The sad realization when you queue for 1v1 as Protoss by mistake and win a PvT 
Spot on. Accidentally queued as Z and beat up a master T.. I am an inactive Terran 1v1 at least until hots. Perhaps, just perhaps, Browder manages to make Z and P require more skill, and stop nerfbatting everything T has like a madman.
User was warned for this post
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On March 11 2012 20:55 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:51 kyllinghest wrote:On March 11 2012 20:07 tomatriedes wrote:On March 11 2012 19:39 Mehukannu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:33 Sated wrote:On March 11 2012 19:04 Laurens wrote:On March 11 2012 19:03 TENTHST wrote:
See, threads like this are a by-product of Blizzard making Terran stupidly overpowered in the first 6 months of this game.
Now, all of the "a a t a a a" bio players are crying because their abusive strategy that promoted them into diamond league no longer works.
Think about it like this: you get two aspiring baseball players. you give one a corked bat and another a standard bat. the kid with the corked bat seems to be a much better player than the kid with the regular bat.
but then, one day, you realize that its unfair that one has a corked bat while the other doesn't. so you take away the corked bat and force him to use an official bat, and suddenly he isn't performing so well. this, in turn, leads to frustration on his part, and he declares baseball an unbalanced game which causes him to quit it forever. Not a single T GSL winner in the first 6 months of the game ... stupidly overpowered hmm? Bisu: "If you're asking for my opinion, then no. Reviews seem to be calling it Terran-World. It'd be nice if they worked on the balance a little bit. If Terran continues to win like this, who is going to play that game? If you're going to make Protoss such a weak race, might as well get rid of it. It's quite saddening. But, if I had to make the switch to Starcraft 2, I probably would play Protoss. (laughs)" This opinion on balance when the game was young > You. Yeah, because the balance and player skill right now is completely same like it was at the release. Anyway I don't think any amount of patching is going to fix TvP without breaking the balance of the other match ups. It is better to wait for either a ''metagame'' switch or for the expansion to fix things up. Who says it needs 'fixing'? Protoss has an advantage late game but terran has an advantage mid game. You want terran to have an advantage at all stages of the game? The game is much more balanced than it was back in August when Korean terrans were almost 70-30 over protoss. Now it's only 54-46 in favor of toss- definitely within the bounds of what I would consider balanced. If it was 54-46 the other way I would have no problem with that either. Terrans just got used to seeing other terrans winning every top tournament. Now that they're only winning about a third of them they think there's something wrong but in actuality balance has improved. Also It should be so clear to people that you can't balance for lower leagues- you have to aim for the top with balance otherwise we'll end up with every pro player choosing the same race. How much fun would that be? And look at the example of Byun- if it were true that terran is really exponentially harder than other races he would have failed hard when he switched from toss to terran and dropped out of progaming. In fact he is continuing to compete at a high level as a pro (albeit after a break due to the coca incident) and recently beat some top protosses in GSTL. In the end if you guys think your race is what's holding you back from GM or whatever go ahead and try another race and see what it's like. You may find it's not such a cakewalk as you think. I think most people agree the matchup isn't imbalanced, however I find it alarming that its so much easier to play one side of it than the other (yes Im random), it shouldn't be like that. Protoss two-base timings are so easy to excecute, and if you don't identify the threat you die. Protoss lategame is near unstoppable, unless you are way ahead. The colossus is a walking siege tank, only way better and it doesn't get stomped by zealots. In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier, as seen especially in the NA and EU scene (where almost no terrans are in the top). "Everything protoss has is better, easier, and stronger... But i'm not balance whining". That's what i got from your post.
Im sorry I didn't manage to convey my opinion properly to you Karpo, but please don't put words in my mouth. Im not sure how much clearer I can say it really " In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier" is a pretty straight forward sentence, no? I simply think both races are equally "good", but protoss could easily use a few more units that required some work. There is no "stutterstep" upgrade in the tech-lab, but you need it to fight charging zealots.
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On March 11 2012 21:33 Murlox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:16 opus55 wrote:
Why could this be the case? Are those difficulty feelings not directly linked to winrates? I would say difficulty feelings are directly linked to winrates, but not with a 100% ratio -> it's not because you feel that matchup is hard that you will necessarily lose. On the same token, feeling it's the hardest, the more demanding, means that's you're probably going to lose it quite a bunch (your mistakes being punished the hardest). Given that, I'd say the link between "difficulty feelings" and "winrates" should hover around 75%. That should temper/stabilize your statistics concerns.
Yes, it does. Another idea could be that for those Zerg not having ZvP as their weakest matchup, it is really easy and they have huge winrates, while those that have problems with the matchup have at least fairly decent winrates. Nevertheless, the numbers are imho astonishingly large, especially for TvP.
On March 11 2012 21:33 Murlox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:16 opus55 wrote:
Are Teamliquid users not a representative group, and outside of TL, for example, Zergs smash Protosses left and right? I don't see how that would be. There's no selection upon entering TL, every one is free to join and participate provided they have basic English understanding.
For example, TeamLiquid readers have access to a certain pool of strategies; or, by being part of the social group of TeamLiquid posters, your opinion on certain playstyles could change - for example, macro styles could be preferred over allins more than for the rest of the community. These are of course only vague ideas which are hard to confirm or reject.
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On March 11 2012 22:25 kyllinghest wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:55 karpo wrote:On March 11 2012 20:51 kyllinghest wrote:On March 11 2012 20:07 tomatriedes wrote:On March 11 2012 19:39 Mehukannu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:33 Sated wrote:On March 11 2012 19:04 Laurens wrote:On March 11 2012 19:03 TENTHST wrote:
See, threads like this are a by-product of Blizzard making Terran stupidly overpowered in the first 6 months of this game.
Now, all of the "a a t a a a" bio players are crying because their abusive strategy that promoted them into diamond league no longer works.
Think about it like this: you get two aspiring baseball players. you give one a corked bat and another a standard bat. the kid with the corked bat seems to be a much better player than the kid with the regular bat.
but then, one day, you realize that its unfair that one has a corked bat while the other doesn't. so you take away the corked bat and force him to use an official bat, and suddenly he isn't performing so well. this, in turn, leads to frustration on his part, and he declares baseball an unbalanced game which causes him to quit it forever. Not a single T GSL winner in the first 6 months of the game ... stupidly overpowered hmm? Bisu: "If you're asking for my opinion, then no. Reviews seem to be calling it Terran-World. It'd be nice if they worked on the balance a little bit. If Terran continues to win like this, who is going to play that game? If you're going to make Protoss such a weak race, might as well get rid of it. It's quite saddening. But, if I had to make the switch to Starcraft 2, I probably would play Protoss. (laughs)" This opinion on balance when the game was young > You. Yeah, because the balance and player skill right now is completely same like it was at the release. Anyway I don't think any amount of patching is going to fix TvP without breaking the balance of the other match ups. It is better to wait for either a ''metagame'' switch or for the expansion to fix things up. Who says it needs 'fixing'? Protoss has an advantage late game but terran has an advantage mid game. You want terran to have an advantage at all stages of the game? The game is much more balanced than it was back in August when Korean terrans were almost 70-30 over protoss. Now it's only 54-46 in favor of toss- definitely within the bounds of what I would consider balanced. If it was 54-46 the other way I would have no problem with that either. Terrans just got used to seeing other terrans winning every top tournament. Now that they're only winning about a third of them they think there's something wrong but in actuality balance has improved. Also It should be so clear to people that you can't balance for lower leagues- you have to aim for the top with balance otherwise we'll end up with every pro player choosing the same race. How much fun would that be? And look at the example of Byun- if it were true that terran is really exponentially harder than other races he would have failed hard when he switched from toss to terran and dropped out of progaming. In fact he is continuing to compete at a high level as a pro (albeit after a break due to the coca incident) and recently beat some top protosses in GSTL. In the end if you guys think your race is what's holding you back from GM or whatever go ahead and try another race and see what it's like. You may find it's not such a cakewalk as you think. I think most people agree the matchup isn't imbalanced, however I find it alarming that its so much easier to play one side of it than the other (yes Im random), it shouldn't be like that. Protoss two-base timings are so easy to excecute, and if you don't identify the threat you die. Protoss lategame is near unstoppable, unless you are way ahead. The colossus is a walking siege tank, only way better and it doesn't get stomped by zealots. In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier, as seen especially in the NA and EU scene (where almost no terrans are in the top). "Everything protoss has is better, easier, and stronger... But i'm not balance whining". That's what i got from your post. Im sorry I didn't manage to convey my opinion properly to you Karpo, but please don't put words in my mouth. Im not sure how much clearer I can say it really " In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier" is a pretty straight forward sentence, no? I simply think both races are equally "good", but protoss could easily use a few more units that required some work. There is no "stutterstep" upgrade in the tech-lab, but you need it to fight charging zealots.
You say that the colossus is more or less overpowered, you say that protoss is practically unstoppable in the lategame (does not equate to being easy, just too strong), and that their two base stuff is easy to execute and very dangerous for terran. Yet at the same time you claim that you don't find that the matchup is imbalanced? Stop kidding yourself.
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The problem is Terran late game especially TvP! Its right that you can simple win with all ins but it dont make much fun ..
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On March 11 2012 22:31 Lomo wrote:
The problem is Terran late game especially TvP! Its right that you can simple win with all ins but it dont make much fun ..
seeing how the ladder is mostly allins in the MUs I play on it (ZvT, ZvP; ZvT), I think you are pretty much the only one with this opinion.
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On March 11 2012 22:30 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 22:25 kyllinghest wrote:On March 11 2012 20:55 karpo wrote:On March 11 2012 20:51 kyllinghest wrote:On March 11 2012 20:07 tomatriedes wrote:On March 11 2012 19:39 Mehukannu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:33 Sated wrote:On March 11 2012 19:04 Laurens wrote:On March 11 2012 19:03 TENTHST wrote:
See, threads like this are a by-product of Blizzard making Terran stupidly overpowered in the first 6 months of this game.
Now, all of the "a a t a a a" bio players are crying because their abusive strategy that promoted them into diamond league no longer works.
Think about it like this: you get two aspiring baseball players. you give one a corked bat and another a standard bat. the kid with the corked bat seems to be a much better player than the kid with the regular bat.
but then, one day, you realize that its unfair that one has a corked bat while the other doesn't. so you take away the corked bat and force him to use an official bat, and suddenly he isn't performing so well. this, in turn, leads to frustration on his part, and he declares baseball an unbalanced game which causes him to quit it forever. Not a single T GSL winner in the first 6 months of the game ... stupidly overpowered hmm? Bisu: "If you're asking for my opinion, then no. Reviews seem to be calling it Terran-World. It'd be nice if they worked on the balance a little bit. If Terran continues to win like this, who is going to play that game? If you're going to make Protoss such a weak race, might as well get rid of it. It's quite saddening. But, if I had to make the switch to Starcraft 2, I probably would play Protoss. (laughs)" This opinion on balance when the game was young > You. Yeah, because the balance and player skill right now is completely same like it was at the release. Anyway I don't think any amount of patching is going to fix TvP without breaking the balance of the other match ups. It is better to wait for either a ''metagame'' switch or for the expansion to fix things up. Who says it needs 'fixing'? Protoss has an advantage late game but terran has an advantage mid game. You want terran to have an advantage at all stages of the game? The game is much more balanced than it was back in August when Korean terrans were almost 70-30 over protoss. Now it's only 54-46 in favor of toss- definitely within the bounds of what I would consider balanced. If it was 54-46 the other way I would have no problem with that either. Terrans just got used to seeing other terrans winning every top tournament. Now that they're only winning about a third of them they think there's something wrong but in actuality balance has improved. Also It should be so clear to people that you can't balance for lower leagues- you have to aim for the top with balance otherwise we'll end up with every pro player choosing the same race. How much fun would that be? And look at the example of Byun- if it were true that terran is really exponentially harder than other races he would have failed hard when he switched from toss to terran and dropped out of progaming. In fact he is continuing to compete at a high level as a pro (albeit after a break due to the coca incident) and recently beat some top protosses in GSTL. In the end if you guys think your race is what's holding you back from GM or whatever go ahead and try another race and see what it's like. You may find it's not such a cakewalk as you think. I think most people agree the matchup isn't imbalanced, however I find it alarming that its so much easier to play one side of it than the other (yes Im random), it shouldn't be like that. Protoss two-base timings are so easy to excecute, and if you don't identify the threat you die. Protoss lategame is near unstoppable, unless you are way ahead. The colossus is a walking siege tank, only way better and it doesn't get stomped by zealots. In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier, as seen especially in the NA and EU scene (where almost no terrans are in the top). "Everything protoss has is better, easier, and stronger... But i'm not balance whining". That's what i got from your post. Im sorry I didn't manage to convey my opinion properly to you Karpo, but please don't put words in my mouth. Im not sure how much clearer I can say it really " In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier" is a pretty straight forward sentence, no? I simply think both races are equally "good", but protoss could easily use a few more units that required some work. There is no "stutterstep" upgrade in the tech-lab, but you need it to fight charging zealots. You say that the colossus is more or less overpowered, you say that protoss is practically unstoppable in the lategame (does not equate to being easy, just too strong), and that their two base stuff is easy to execute and very dangerous for terran. Yet at the same time you claim that you don't find that the matchup is imbalanced? Stop kidding yourself.
A lot of people are basically saying the same thing. Because it's true. I don't believe the matchup is imbalanced, when I look at the typical lategame TvP I can see what needs to be done to win. However, you need 400 APM to execute it.
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On March 11 2012 22:14 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 22:09 Phays wrote:
Terran is the race who always have to countertech or lose and is way more micro intensive in most cases, though terran is stronger earlygame due to the bigger variety in the early stages of the game.
Fun how both terran and zergs weakest matchup is vP and P is vZ(majority). Wonder why? fun how this proves how dumb this poll is: zergs havinv trouble vs toss, toss' having trouble vs zerg... someone has to perform well!
Well, I couldn't win a PvZ when I was playing Protoss and now it's even worse as Zerg... Too many all-ins on both sides, coupled with the feeling that if the other guys doesn't go for an all-in and you weren't really greedy you auto lose. The matchup feels random and stupid, and everyone seems to hate it. Protoss matchups tend to feel like that.
Solution: remove Protoss from the game :p
Seriously there's something wrong with this race. They're horrible to play as, terrible to play against, awful to watch. The longer we pretend there isn't a problem the more we ensure things won't change.
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On March 11 2012 21:47 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:39 Plexa wrote:On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Lots of people don't understand TvP. For instance, by trying to play a macro game (i.e. "improving" your overall game) you are actually playing yourself into a disadvantage. TvP requires Terran to be hyperaggressive and win the game early, or gain a significant advantage before 15min. Which is just another way of saying Terran lategame is too weak. And how are you going to get a significant advantage against Protoss before the 15 minute mark when they either turtle on 2 bases for 12 minutes while chronoing forges or take 3 bases very quickly while threatening to kill you. I realize there are ways to beat both styles but there is no good way to open reactively to counter both. Either you go for quick medivacs which puts you behind in upgrades against quick forges or you open quick upgrades which results in you losing to quick 3 base protoss. Tell me if I'm wrong but I don't know an aggressive opening that can give you a significant advantage against any style. Quick medivac drops used to do that but Protoss players have found ways to deal with that rather easily. You have to luckily blind counter your opponent.
I agree with this, though i dont agree that you have to blin counter your opponent to win it is quite hard to beat a P at all and ddrops get shut down if the P can split thier army
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On March 11 2012 22:35 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 22:30 karpo wrote:On March 11 2012 22:25 kyllinghest wrote:On March 11 2012 20:55 karpo wrote:On March 11 2012 20:51 kyllinghest wrote:On March 11 2012 20:07 tomatriedes wrote:On March 11 2012 19:39 Mehukannu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:33 Sated wrote:On March 11 2012 19:04 Laurens wrote:On March 11 2012 19:03 TENTHST wrote:
See, threads like this are a by-product of Blizzard making Terran stupidly overpowered in the first 6 months of this game.
Now, all of the "a a t a a a" bio players are crying because their abusive strategy that promoted them into diamond league no longer works.
Think about it like this: you get two aspiring baseball players. you give one a corked bat and another a standard bat. the kid with the corked bat seems to be a much better player than the kid with the regular bat.
but then, one day, you realize that its unfair that one has a corked bat while the other doesn't. so you take away the corked bat and force him to use an official bat, and suddenly he isn't performing so well. this, in turn, leads to frustration on his part, and he declares baseball an unbalanced game which causes him to quit it forever. Not a single T GSL winner in the first 6 months of the game ... stupidly overpowered hmm? Bisu: "If you're asking for my opinion, then no. Reviews seem to be calling it Terran-World. It'd be nice if they worked on the balance a little bit. If Terran continues to win like this, who is going to play that game? If you're going to make Protoss such a weak race, might as well get rid of it. It's quite saddening. But, if I had to make the switch to Starcraft 2, I probably would play Protoss. (laughs)" This opinion on balance when the game was young > You. Yeah, because the balance and player skill right now is completely same like it was at the release. Anyway I don't think any amount of patching is going to fix TvP without breaking the balance of the other match ups. It is better to wait for either a ''metagame'' switch or for the expansion to fix things up. Who says it needs 'fixing'? Protoss has an advantage late game but terran has an advantage mid game. You want terran to have an advantage at all stages of the game? The game is much more balanced than it was back in August when Korean terrans were almost 70-30 over protoss. Now it's only 54-46 in favor of toss- definitely within the bounds of what I would consider balanced. If it was 54-46 the other way I would have no problem with that either. Terrans just got used to seeing other terrans winning every top tournament. Now that they're only winning about a third of them they think there's something wrong but in actuality balance has improved. Also It should be so clear to people that you can't balance for lower leagues- you have to aim for the top with balance otherwise we'll end up with every pro player choosing the same race. How much fun would that be? And look at the example of Byun- if it were true that terran is really exponentially harder than other races he would have failed hard when he switched from toss to terran and dropped out of progaming. In fact he is continuing to compete at a high level as a pro (albeit after a break due to the coca incident) and recently beat some top protosses in GSTL. In the end if you guys think your race is what's holding you back from GM or whatever go ahead and try another race and see what it's like. You may find it's not such a cakewalk as you think. I think most people agree the matchup isn't imbalanced, however I find it alarming that its so much easier to play one side of it than the other (yes Im random), it shouldn't be like that. Protoss two-base timings are so easy to excecute, and if you don't identify the threat you die. Protoss lategame is near unstoppable, unless you are way ahead. The colossus is a walking siege tank, only way better and it doesn't get stomped by zealots. In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier, as seen especially in the NA and EU scene (where almost no terrans are in the top). "Everything protoss has is better, easier, and stronger... But i'm not balance whining". That's what i got from your post. Im sorry I didn't manage to convey my opinion properly to you Karpo, but please don't put words in my mouth. Im not sure how much clearer I can say it really " In no way do I feel protoss is better than terran, but it is surely easier" is a pretty straight forward sentence, no? I simply think both races are equally "good", but protoss could easily use a few more units that required some work. There is no "stutterstep" upgrade in the tech-lab, but you need it to fight charging zealots. You say that the colossus is more or less overpowered, you say that protoss is practically unstoppable in the lategame (does not equate to being easy, just too strong), and that their two base stuff is easy to execute and very dangerous for terran. Yet at the same time you claim that you don't find that the matchup is imbalanced? Stop kidding yourself. A lot of people are basically saying the same thing. Because it's true. I don't believe the matchup is imbalanced, when I look at the typical lategame TvP I can see what needs to be done to win. However, you need 400 APM to execute it.
This! I hope and believe the new units in HotS will help out alot making the matchup more dynamic though!
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On March 11 2012 11:19 LaLuSh wrote:
Statement based on a sample size of: 15
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Probability of thread being closed: 1
We should create a new thread called "Where did LaLuSh go?".
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On March 11 2012 22:39 Lennon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:19 LaLuSh wrote:
Statement based on a sample size of: 15
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Probability of thread being closed: 1
We should create a new thread called "Where did LaLuSh go?".
His 'stache became sentient and ate him. True story. RIP Lalle.
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EPT
