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On March 11 2012 21:37 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:33 narkissos wrote:On March 11 2012 21:30 karpo wrote:
Those polls show nothing really. There's no control and anyone can vote even though they never play the race in question. LOL, Tell us who was really behind 9/11? Wut? I just went back to the OP and voted for mirror matchups being hardest for all races. Do i know shit about ZvZ or PvP? No. Doesn't stop me from voting and later people base arguments on the statistics even though no one knows how believable it is.
Because u more or less assumed there would bee a vast conspiracy among terrans to stack the poll against protos. There was no reason to assume that to bee more likely than the opposite and as you just shown the only one we know "cheated" in poll was u.
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I have noticed a significant decline in terrans at diamond level this season compared to season 3 (took a hiatus for a while).
Out of my last 36 games 4 have been vs terran. ZvP and ZvZ ftw....
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On March 11 2012 12:39 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Lots of people don't understand TvP. For instance, by trying to play a macro game (i.e. "improving" your overall game) you are actually playing yourself into a disadvantage. TvP requires Terran to be hyperaggressive and win the game early, or gain a significant advantage before 15min.
Which is just another way of saying Terran lategame is too weak. And how are you going to get a significant advantage against Protoss before the 15 minute mark when they either turtle on 2 bases for 12 minutes while chronoing forges or take 3 bases very quickly while threatening to kill you. I realize there are ways to beat both styles but there is no good way to open reactively to counter both. Either you go for quick medivacs which puts you behind in upgrades against quick forges or you open quick upgrades which results in you losing to quick 3 base protoss. Tell me if I'm wrong but I don't know an aggressive opening that can give you a significant advantage against any style. Quick medivac drops used to do that but Protoss players have found ways to deal with that rather easily. You have to luckily blind counter your opponent.
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On March 11 2012 21:41 narkissos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:37 karpo wrote:On March 11 2012 21:33 narkissos wrote:On March 11 2012 21:30 karpo wrote:
Those polls show nothing really. There's no control and anyone can vote even though they never play the race in question. LOL, Tell us who was really behind 9/11? Wut? I just went back to the OP and voted for mirror matchups being hardest for all races. Do i know shit about ZvZ or PvP? No. Doesn't stop me from voting and later people base arguments on the statistics even though no one knows how believable it is. Because u more or less assumed there would bee a vast conspiracy among terrans to stack the poll against protos. There was no reason to assume that to bee more likely than the opposite and as you just shown the only one we know "cheated" in poll was u.
Where did i assume that terrans are stacking this against protoss? When did i mention anything about vast conspiracies against protoss? You're delusional.
I just said that polls like this won't show close to real numbers unless you have some kind of control where only players of the chosen race can vote for what they believe is the toughest matchup.
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Talking about OP in this context ridiculous. Actually, it's ridiculous no matter the context.
Anyways, as a T in Diamond I agree with everyone that has said that there's subtleties to Terran play that is hard to initially get a hold of if you are a low/mid level player. A-moving banelings is for example easier than splitting marines. Dealing with Colossi production/micro is easier than handling Vikings. The viking is a unit that can just as easily lose you the game as Terran if you either make too many or too few. You have to be reactive to a higher degree, while applying pressure and doing damage with your drops.
Then there's the positioning versus Zerg and the overall differences in macro mechanics between the three races. If I get sloppy late game and my money goes up I'm never going to be able to spend it as fast as a Zerg that has saved up a bunch of larva or a Protoss that can spam chrono on 40 gates, so even if I win an engagement I can still end up getting my ass handed to me if my macro has slipped.
All you have to do is keep at it. The games where I don't make mistakes, especially small ones, I feel a huge difference. Being forced to learn how to play a solid game is a good thing.
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On March 11 2012 21:18 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:15 sleepingdog wrote:
Terran was the strongest race since release for a very, very long time - it's only natural that now, after things are getting more balanced, the weaker terrans lose more, simply because they were at a MMR that was higher than their skill.
If any terran feels offended by this, just take the extreme example of someone just abusing 111 vs toss and double rax marine/bunker vs zerg. It's clear that now he will drop (will have dropped). And what about the houndreds of abusive protoss allins? Shouldn't they be balanced out as well? Or is it ok to abuse protoss, but not to abuse terran? I don't get your point!
If you don't realize how much more dominant terran all-ins have been than protoss-ones then there is really no point arguing.
I followed the development of balance since beta and since this one, crucial beta-patch that basicly buffed terran as a whole, this race has dominated the scene. Now it is THE FIRST time in history that terran might (!) not be considered the best race. So, in order to determine if there is really something wrong, you'd have to wait for at least half a year. Probably more.
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On March 11 2012 21:47 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:41 narkissos wrote:On March 11 2012 21:37 karpo wrote:On March 11 2012 21:33 narkissos wrote:On March 11 2012 21:30 karpo wrote:
Those polls show nothing really. There's no control and anyone can vote even though they never play the race in question. LOL, Tell us who was really behind 9/11? Wut? I just went back to the OP and voted for mirror matchups being hardest for all races. Do i know shit about ZvZ or PvP? No. Doesn't stop me from voting and later people base arguments on the statistics even though no one knows how believable it is. Because u more or less assumed there would bee a vast conspiracy among terrans to stack the poll against protos. There was no reason to assume that to bee more likely than the opposite and as you just shown the only one we know "cheated" in poll was u. Where did i assume that terrans are stacking this against protoss? When did i mention anything about vast conspiracies against protoss? You're delusional. I just said that polls like this won't show close to real numbers unless you have some kind of control where only players of the chosen race can vote for what they believe is the toughest matchup.
So you believe that a Protoss player will vote TvP as their worst match up? LMAO
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The sc2ranks statistics dont show anything of use.
It gives the percentage of players rather than the percentage of games. 25% of platinum might be terran, but if those terrans only play 1 game per season, you wouldnt see many terrans.
You need statistics on number of games each race has played. You might then see a much lower number.
Just looking at my last 10 games (im terran)
T 1
Z 7
P 2
Not a huge sample size, but im pretty sure if i went back over the last 50 games the distribution would be similar.
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When I read the thread title, this came to my mind:
Where have all the Terrans gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Terrans gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Terrans gone?
Toss have picked them apart
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
:D
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Well obviously everyone wants to play with the easiest race. Nowadays kids just want everything to be easy and casual. Win after a click.
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I quit playing sc2 for protoss.
Enough said.
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Russian Federation748 Posts
This is actually a German song in origin.
Sag mir, wo die Terran sind...
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personally i feel like T takes so much more to play than is given to them, its seems as though P and Z can just sit and macro and max then A move and win. T has to make it happen, with drops micro in battles are shit, idk as a T is just seems hard as fuck to get good with T becasue all the game has to come together instead of just macro
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I think the 2 big reasons are:
Many casual players played Terran due to campaign and simply got bored of SC2 and stopped playing or switched to other races.
It became too difficult to play (due to nerfs, due to 1-basing not being as viable, changes in the map pool, etc.) and people chose to stop playing or switch races.
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Just noticed the ZOTAC Cup monthly ranking... 2 Terrans in top16...
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The sad realization when you queue for 1v1 as Protoss by mistake and win a PvT 
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France13023 Posts
I don't get why terrans don't all-in these protoss on ladder, if you get so tired of playing the match-up you can all-in them, it's fast and you win so you are not frustrated.
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Terran is the race who always have to countertech or lose and is way more micro intensive in most cases, though terran is stronger earlygame due to the bigger variety in the early stages of the game.
Fun how both terran and zergs weakest matchup is vP and P is vZ(majority). Wonder why?
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On March 11 2012 22:09 Poopi wrote:
I don't get why terrans don't all-in these protoss on ladder, if you get so tired of playing the match-up you can all-in them, it's fast and you win so you are not frustrated.
No good all ins for Terran.
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EPT
