EPTOn March 10 2012 12:48 glyoArtOfWar wrote:
you destroy the floor and lay a new foundation
you destroy the floor and lay a new foundation
Agreed. This is true not just for starcraft.
reach your skill ceiling = give the game up? - Page 7
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
Agreed. This is true not just for starcraft. | ||
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Vetrocide
Norway600 Posts
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Dariusz
Poland657 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:45 wajd wrote: So what do you do when you reach your skill ceiling? You practice better and more. | ||
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Rebel_
Canada94 Posts
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
Starcraft players are so obsessed with this idea of improving that you've apparently forgotten why you play the game/games in the first place. On March 10 2012 21:30 Kuni wrote: While one ounce of platinum is worth almost 1300 Euro (1700 Dollars) at the moment, it is far below being top notch in Starcraft. Everybody can get ranked in Master league, if they play the game properly without having to train 16 hours a day in Korea. Actually, they can't, because that would break the league distribution. If every player in SC2 was of exactly equal skill and MMR, there would still be people in bronze, simply because of how the ranking system works - relative, not absolute. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:45 wajd wrote: When you want to be serous with this game and it just isn't happening. Do you have to just suck it up and tell yourself to give up this dream, and stop playing? Accept the fact that this game is so easy for alot of people, but I'm not one of them. So what do you do when you reach your skill ceiling? I'm kinda curious what you mean by that. I mean you're already taking it way more seriously than your average gamer just by doing all of that stuff. If you mean you want to consistently improve, well you probably have. Its just that so has everyone else. If you want to get to Master league, well if you've really tried everything and it was possible for you to get there you'd probably have made it by now. Humans are different physically, they're also different mentally. There's no practical difference between saying someone literally is unable to reach Masters, and saying someone would have to practice 16 hours a day to reach Masters. In either case its an unrealistic, unhealthy and therefore undesirable goal. Finally, in an ideal world where everyone follows the "perfect" training regimen, and has a completely optimistic mindset, you STILL wouldn't be in Masters. Because the inherent mental and physical differences would still be in play. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Skill ceilings do exist, but I doubt the OP has reached his. Sometimes a break helps and yes, it could be the way you look at the game. If it's not working; you got to try something different. | ||
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carrion
United Kingdom87 Posts
Edit: spelling | ||
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Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
Play more, find the mistakes in your play, make a mental note to stop making them, and play more games. Repeat a few thousand times and you'll eventually be a very, very good player. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Think of a keyboard sequence like maybe something random like fwrx342sree. Now type that with the left hand, practice it until you can type it so fast you type like 5 characters a second. Congrats, you now have the prerequisites for 300 APM. Click with your mouse in random spots in the screen over 5 times a second, you have prerequisites for 300 APM again. Now the rest is going to be practice and muscle memory. Then we get to the strategy. It's obvious you can't be capped here as you can just copy others. Assuming you're a reasonably intelligent person, you indeed can study others, study your own replays. Figure out what something means. Use logic to guess something like "If I see 2 hellions he's going reactor factory" and then watch the replays to find out if that is true. Mostly when people talk about skillcap or that their personal skill is capped, they're just approaching the game in the wrong way and don't put in the time it might deserve, or concentrate in the completely wrong things. First you need to work on the large problems with your play, and no never say "I just can't do this faster" or something like that. Tell yourself that you're destined to play at 400 APM, you just need to keep up with it and don't give up. Also when you lose games think about important things to gameplay and jump like a shark to improve on it. Your macro is a problem? Don't go "Oh I just can't macro", think about how you could improve upon it. Play some games against computers and try something like, "micro units for only 10 seconds and go back to macroing always" and after some time, be it hours or days, you will learn to go back to macro. If you have a problem with supply depots, make a habit out of checking the supply counter every few seconds, perhaps at the same time you check the minimap. When to do that? When you have nothing important you need to see in the main screen. For example when you're macroing, you're not using the main screen so you can glance at both, also while you're moving the army and it's not engaging you have good time for this as well. A bad time to check them would be during the heat of battle, but you can still do something like issue initial commands(amove, EMP, etc) and then go macro and check supply etc. after which you can go back to microing, after which you again macro. There's numerous ways to improve that are very simple and intuitive but that people really don't think about either because they are lazy or because they want to justify themselves and feel better about themselves and tell themselves that it's not their fault that they aren't good. | ||
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
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djukger
Germany68 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:45 wajd wrote: So what do you do when you reach your skill ceiling? When you've tried everything to get better, meaning - watching your own replays, downloading replays, practicing every day, laddering, watching streams, watching live events, reading strategy threads, trying to seek coaching when you can't afford it, asking questions whenever you can things not to do, downloading replays, watching streams, watching live events, coaching, reading strategy threads. Sorry watching someone else play doesn't help, as well as coaching i think. Just practise you races all ins 1000 times, then find a practise partner that just does all ins against you and so on, if you did that you can evolve your gameplay further than the all ins because you will probably see kill triggers for you all-ins and get a feel when to all-in and when to retreat and macro up. Thats why when korean all-ins work so often against "normal" foreigners(meaning not top notch) because they never practised every all-in, 2 base play etc. to such an extend. They Day9 approach to take 10 bases is nice, but you have to be able to do all ins, 2 base play - and - defend against that first. Why is Flash so good? Because when asked by his coaches to train against zerg, he just plays 1000 games against zerg. | ||
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NoctemSC
United States771 Posts
In the past I've thought I'd reached a skill ceiling yet I always found more to work on. I was sure I was capped at silver, then gold, then plat and now here I am typing this, at rank 1 Diamond about to hit masters. Someone earlier in the thread said "you destroy the floor and lay a new foundation" I've lived by a similar motto "Tear down the canvas and create a new masterpiece" I think this applies in not only art, but in life in general. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:48 glyoArtOfWar wrote: you destroy the floor and lay a new foundation I think what he means is try something new. There is so much variation in this game, and maybe the reason why you hit a ceiling is because you are doing the same thing over and over. However, I think you have several options op. 1. hire a teacher 2. find practice partners and work on your weakness 3. just play casual and accept your skill level in SC2 Your call, but I suggest the practice partner. If you can't find one, try going on ladder and after every match ask for a custom rematch. You will be surprised how many people will say yes. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 10 2012 22:55 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: I think what he means is try something new. There is so much variation in this game, and maybe the reason why you hit a ceiling is because you are doing the same thing over and over. However, I think you have several options op. 1. hire a teacher 2. find practice partners and work on your weakness 3. just play casual and accept your skill level in SC2 Your call, but I suggest the practice partner. If you can't find one, try going on ladder and after every match ask for a custom rematch. You will be surprised how many people will say yes. Even just posting a thread on teamliquid where you ask for help for overcoming your problems(with a replay) they can tell you what you do wrong. If it's macro that's incredibly EASY to fix, most people just are too lazy to do it. However it has nothing to do with skillcap if it's a macro or even micro type of a thing assuming you don't have a disability preventing you from properly using your hands. | ||
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Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
I have not played SC2 too seriously, more off and on while constantly watching tournaments. But I do believe I hit my skill ceiling in WoW. Not because there weren’t things I could do better, but because I did everything to a reasonably high percentage of my own perfection (which it’s not possible to reach in any case) and my reaction time was as good as the best competitive FPS players or Olympic athletes—a thing I wouldn’t have felt comfortable saying then, but am now. Now I have MS. My reaction time is perfectly average and just fine for most kinds of gaming, but even if I perfect everything else, could I beat my peak performance? Not likely. And that, to me, serves as a definition of “skill ceiling”. I’m struggling slightly myself with what to do. I was always competing against myself, hardly ever anyone else, but I can’t pretend that my motivation wasn’t affected by the fact that I might now have an unbeatable old self to compete with. I really think the answer is simple. If you can’t find satisfaction from the things you can improve—and those things always exist; they would still exist if you lived a hundred thousand years—then it might be a good idea to focus on something else. But if you can find satisfaction from those little things, then great; and who knows, one of those little things might suddenly become larger than you expected, and the skill ceiling disappears. Don’t count on it, but don’t rule it out either. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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