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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
I think it's really hard to realize as a progamer/caster how much of a public image we are and how much our behaviour outside our profession reflects on our image. Yet he did something you are not really supposed to do in USA (I have black friends in Italy and they have no problems with that word at all and they even use it themselves or not nearly as much as if they were american). Anyway I hope EG can replace Orb with a good caster cause I really like what they are doing.
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On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets
Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning.
"hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language.
Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal.
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On March 10 2012 00:27 threshy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) This is nonsense for two reasons. (1) Orb admitted that he chose the word because it is uniquely offensive. (2) My point is about what we should infer. You'd have me believe that a person who says the one word that is most closely associated with racial animus intends something entirely unracial by it. That's simply implausible, because there are lots of ways to communicate anger, frustration and impotence without resorting to racial slurs. Please, be honest with yourself: racist and homophobic language is used anonymous jerks on the internet precisely because of its offensive connotations, not because they are particularly euphonic words that happen to have unfortunate associations. Sure, you can say "orange" but mean "blue." But you're the one who bears the burden of explaining that to the (poor people) who converse with you.
1) read my previous (long) post, on the previous page i think (no further back) . i explain that using a word because it is uniquely offensive doesnt mean you're a racist and that you discriminate against black people LOL, it just means that you're effectively using language to attack someone
2) huh? yes they are used , but they are used not because they are "racist" and because that person HATES ALL BLACK PEOPLE, but because they are effective ways to attack someone who happens to get all upset by them. an attacker doesnt give a FUCK about what hes saying so long as its effective. he may aswell call a chinese person Mr NoLong Dong if he knows itll piss him off/itll be funny. it has no racist connotation to the wielder of the word, only to the receiver, and that is why it is used..
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On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh)
How can you even hold a conversation with anyone around you if you can't be sure that their understanding of the meanings of the words you use are the same as yours? Oh wait, you do that for almost every word you use. But somehow when it comes to a few other words, eg 'nigger' and 'fag', which have fairly well defined meaning for most people, you actually mean to imply completely different meanings. "But its all in the context" I hear you say, and in the context in question orb is attempting to insult someone by calling them a 'nigger' and, surprise surprise, the individual perception (for most people) of the meaning of that word in this context is from its historical use as a racial slur. What fools these people are.
Or using my own individual perception of the following words, to summarize:
Cucumber flowerpot sputnik!
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I respect the decision EG has made, but i think it's not a good one.
I still don't know what Orb exactly said, can't find it nowhere.
But i think he made a politically incorrect statement using words you don't use as a democrat.
Point 1: I love Orb's casting! He is the best caster around, really, he is analytical and enthusiastic.
Point 2: The guy has committed his life to starcraft, he quit his job or what ever to do the masters cup, and now .... he is unemployed
Point 3: there are certain people on EG who very frequently do exactly what Orb did, and there are commercials involving this people, directly advertising with them as individuals. I can't see how there is a difference between a racist statement, and a statement discrediting other peoples sexuality and lifestyle. At least in Europe these two things are equally bad valued in terms of political correctness.
/e
And i think that tweet by Alex regarding how Idras behavior is different is a farce.
If he does it he "hears from him" ... thats kind of rediculous to make such a statement. Orb did not just hear from him, he got dismissed without a warning. Idra was forgiven like 100times
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I personally always have and always will be a supporter of free speech. I also am a believer of what someone does in their personal private life is their own business. I'm new to the SC2 scene and until now didn't even know who orb was except that I had heard he was a caster. I personally do not believe that what a caster, a sports professional, a news caster or anyone in the public eye should be punished for something that does not even affect their "career". Sure you can argue orb announces SC2 so him saying something in SC affects it but as far as I know I don't think it's his job to be a pro player (that's also why i would have a second account with a completely unrelated name that no one knew for me to spend my personal time playing on). Whether a sports player or news caster made a joke on twitter that was "offensive" to some people or wherever they made it, I don't see why they should be punished in their career and have their livelihood punished for something so unrelated.
I also think it's disgusting the way people jumped on him going back through all of his old things to try and find any other instances of him saying something like that. I will never understand why one word specifically is so different and gets treated on such a different level than any other curse word. If anyone rages and begins throwing out any curse word, it's A OK until they drop an N bomb and suddenly they are the most racist person for merely saying a bad word to relieve their anger. I'm sure that the vast majority of people who say that word at any point in time are not using it in a racist or even race related event. Orbs was not going around preaching about black peoples inferiority and other races superiority, he just said a bad word with no context such as "F--k or S--t". Ironically when people use "fa--ot" there are hardly any problems with it, it's just the go to bad word for throwing insults or talking trash but of course there's no problems throwing out equally offensive words about gay people, only blacks.
I think the N word is the most hypocritical, racist word on the face of the planet. I have never seen one word that is 100% acceptable for one group/race of people to use as much as they want, yet such a crime (literally, people lose their jobs and careers for saying it, or even things not close to it) for any other race or group of people to say. Our society is so fucked up that even if using legitimate words in their legitimate meanings, you will still get in trouble. For instance, niggardly (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/niggardly). A word that is completely unrelated to that "racist" word, has a legitimate meaning and place in the english language yet if anyone was to try and use that word they would probably be in just as much trouble as if they had. Or even if you try to use the word retard in it's actual meaning now you get in trouble. Our society has become so fucked up by all of this false racism and offensiveness that we actually go out of our way to get people in trouble now for no real reason other than we think they did something that we are supposed to be offended at.
Besides, I think "The n word" is way worse than actually saying "n----r". Louis CK says it best, all you're doing is putting the word in other peoples heads forcing them to say it themselves because people are too scared to say it and use it, even if there is a legitimate reason.
(WARNING VERY NSW) Do not click if you are one of those people who flips out at any mention of the n word, but sadly what he says is more true than people want to admit.
youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ
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On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets
When does respecting others ever not matter? And yes, when you use those words you ARE a bigot because you think there is something intrinsically bad about being black or being gay and therefore those words are insults. And no I'm not trolling, you don't get to attribute your own meaning to words. They have objective meaning.
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On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal.
okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this
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On March 09 2012 14:39 EnderSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:38 Paradice wrote:
Well handled. This shameful behavior has no place in the 21st century. Unless like, you win and MLG or IEM or something that excuses it of course User was temp banned for this post.
Well put.
User was warned for this post
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Just goes to show how hypocritical and sadistic this 'community' is.
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On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this
Your "community" is full of bigots. Believe it or not, you are not the "greater group." You are a tiny tiny group of small minded people that is, thank god, slowly fading into obscurity.
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No amount of PhD's changes the fact that this entire smear campaign got an innocent man fired in order to make an example of him (which in itself is disgusting) in the name of some theoretical correlation between nerd dialect and hate in the real world.
Want to see the true face of hate? In case you went out of your way to inform on Orb, just look in the mirror.
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On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people .
I feel sad for your community.
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On March 10 2012 00:35 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets When does respecting others ever not matter? And yes, when you use those words you ARE a bigot because you think there is something intrinsically bad about being black or being gay and therefore those words are insults. And no I'm not trolling, you don't get to attribute your own meaning to words. They have objective meaning.
How can you say so positively with such uncertanty that because someone used a specific word in some instance somewhere, that you know 100% how they think and act and why they said it. That's complete bullshit.
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For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it.
This statement, to me, says a whole lot. How about anyone else?
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On March 10 2012 00:40 Lunatics wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:35 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets When does respecting others ever not matter? And yes, when you use those words you ARE a bigot because you think there is something intrinsically bad about being black or being gay and therefore those words are insults. And no I'm not trolling, you don't get to attribute your own meaning to words. They have objective meaning. How can you say so positively with such uncertanty that because someone used a specific word in some instance somewhere, that you know 100% how they think and act and why they said it. That's complete bullshit.
Last I checked people don't just say random words, there are thoughts behind them first. The words people say are a pretty good metric for the thoughts people think.
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On March 10 2012 00:29 RezJ wrote:
I like how EGAlex prefaces his post by first letting us know how much knowledge he has in the field of racism, and afterwards how much he detests the N word.
I don't buy any of it. It's pretty obvious that orb was fired because of pressure from sponsors. You can see that part dripping from the bottom of his post.
I would like it a lot more if Alex would have used his rhetoric skills trying to explain to sponsors that this is an internet drama started by trolls - rather than trying to explain to TL why his values are not in tune with Orb's.
Well said. I guess that is the contemporary concept of morals. People apply them when they come in handy.
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On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this
The amount of rational explanation that you can contribute to this discussioin equals zero, thank you for that.
It is fun that you think, what ever your peer group decides to do, is the way you should behave in public.
Thank you for explaining to me, that you are not capable of defending your position with something else than exposing the amount of bigotry you are living with. The fact that you and your friends consider the term "Jew" to be an insult and not just the desciption of somebodys religious convictions makes me really sad.
Hope you grow up, kiddo.
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On March 10 2012 00:33 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:27 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) This is nonsense for two reasons. (1) Orb admitted that he chose the word because it is uniquely offensive. (2) My point is about what we should infer. You'd have me believe that a person who says the one word that is most closely associated with racial animus intends something entirely unracial by it. That's simply implausible, because there are lots of ways to communicate anger, frustration and impotence without resorting to racial slurs. Please, be honest with yourself: racist and homophobic language is used anonymous jerks on the internet precisely because of its offensive connotations, not because they are particularly euphonic words that happen to have unfortunate associations. Sure, you can say "orange" but mean "blue." But you're the one who bears the burden of explaining that to the (poor people) who converse with you. 1) read my previous (long) post, on the previous page i think (no further back) . i explain that using a word because it is uniquely offensive doesnt mean you're a racist and that you discriminate against black people LOL, it just means that you're effectively using language to attack someone 2) huh? yes they are used , but they are used not because they are "racist" and because that person HATES ALL BLACK PEOPLE, but because they are effective ways to attack someone who happens to get all upset by them. an attacker doesnt give a FUCK about what hes saying so long as its effective. he may aswell call a chinese person Mr NoLong Dong if he knows itll piss him off/itll be funny. it has no racist connotation to the wielder of the word, only to the receiver, and that is why it is used..
You're confused because you think that condemning racist language entails the assertion that the one condemned "hates all [racial group]." Not so (and irrelevant). There is plenty of gray area in there. Here, Orb is among those who is willing to use language that dehumanizes them in order to exact petty revenge on someone over a video game. Indeed, he chose a racial slur specifically because he knew that it would be injurious, because its use is so taboo, so unflinchingly nasty and perverse. Just because Orb isn't part of a white supremacist group doesn't mean that what he did do is A-OK.
Using racial slurs to attack someone is racist because it contains the assertion that the race targeted by the slur is inferior. You don't understand that--if you did, you would see why what you're saying is not just wrong, but incoherent.
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On March 10 2012 00:42 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this The amount of rational explanation that you can contribute to this discussioin equals zero, thank you for that. It is fun that you think, what ever your peer group decides to do, is the way you should behave in public. Thank you for explaining to me, that you are not capable of defending your position with something else than exposing the amount of bigotry you are living with. The fact that you and your friends consider the term "Jew" to be an insult and not just the desciption of somebodys religious convictions makes me really sad. Hope you grow up, kiddo.
He was trying to get you understand by your self that every group of people have different standard. And the one you and us live in is not necessarily the best because it is the biggest.
Maybe you are not mature enough to step back a little and get it by yourself, kiddo.
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EPT
