|
Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 00:40 AntiGrav1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . I feel sad for your community.
What is there to feel sad over? His community doesn't get all upset over a simple word. They seem to comprehend context and don't jump on the hate train over hearing some syllables.
|
On March 10 2012 00:37 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this Your "community" is full of bigots. Believe it or not, you are not the "greater group." You are a tiny tiny group of small minded people that is, thank god, slowly fading into obscurity.
we are bigots HOW exactly? what is the bigoted action we are taking here? where is the discrimination? where is the abuse?
you whole arguement comes down to "you should be sensitive to my perception of that particular word - it upsets me so please dont use it". okay fine. but using it doesnt make me a racist, it just makes me insensitive to your emotional feelings directly with regards to me using that particular word. as far as im concerned, in that case, if im going to call you an asshole for cheesing me, ill just as well call you a faggot. makes no difference to me. and in reality, makes no difference to how i am towards blacks or gays.
|
On March 10 2012 00:39 Kickboxer wrote:
No amount of PhD's changes the fact that this entire smear campaign got an innocent man fired in order to make an example of him (which in itself is disgusting) in the name of some theoretical correlation between nerd dialect and hate in the real world.
Want to see the true face of hate? In case you went out of your way to inform on Orb, just look in the mirror.
True words. I also feel that EG does whatever the community wants just not to upset the sponsors. Poor orb.
|
I miss the part where Orb called the person african american.
|
On March 10 2012 00:40 Lunatics wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:35 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets When does respecting others ever not matter? And yes, when you use those words you ARE a bigot because you think there is something intrinsically bad about being black or being gay and therefore those words are insults. And no I'm not trolling, you don't get to attribute your own meaning to words. They have objective meaning. How can you say so positively with such uncertanty that because someone used a specific word in some instance somewhere, that you know 100% how they think and act and why they said it. That's complete bullshit.
Don't be obtuse. The word Orb used is not generally ambiguous, and the context was clear. Moreover, his explanation was that he chose it because of its offensive connotations.
|
On March 10 2012 00:45 Kickboxer wrote:
I miss the part where Orb called the person african american.
hahahaha , ironically , saying that would make it appear MORE racist than actually calling a person nigger
|
The thread at this point makes me laugh. It truly makes me wonder at who where are as gamers. Get off your high horse's.
|
On March 10 2012 00:44 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:42 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this The amount of rational explanation that you can contribute to this discussioin equals zero, thank you for that. It is fun that you think, what ever your peer group decides to do, is the way you should behave in public. Thank you for explaining to me, that you are not capable of defending your position with something else than exposing the amount of bigotry you are living with. The fact that you and your friends consider the term "Jew" to be an insult and not just the desciption of somebodys religious convictions makes me really sad. Hope you grow up, kiddo. He was trying to get you understand by your self that every group of people have different standard. And the one you and us live in is not necessarily the best because it is the biggest. Maybe you are not mature enough to step back a little and get it by yourself, kiddo.
I do not have to accept the standards of people, if they are using inhumane language or practices.
Or do you think, that as long as a group of people thinks it is ok to do something, they can do that?
|
On March 10 2012 00:45 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this Your "community" is full of bigots. Believe it or not, you are not the "greater group." You are a tiny tiny group of small minded people that is, thank god, slowly fading into obscurity. we are bigots HOW exactly? what is the bigoted action we are taking here? where is the discrimination? where is the abuse? you whole arguement comes down to "you should be sensitive to my perception of that particular word - it upsets me so please dont use it". okay fine. but using it doesnt make me a racist, it just makes me insensitive to your emotional feelings directly with regards to me using that particular word. as far as im concerned, in that case, if im going to call you an asshole for cheesing me, ill just as well call you a faggot. makes no difference to me. and in reality, makes no difference to how i am towards blacks or gays.
Thats quite wrong. By calling people nigger or faggot you are acting ignorant towards blacks or gays. By calling people asholes you aren't. Just because you are ignorant to the fact that other people are there with other histories and sentiments your actions in the real world are not indifferent.
|
On March 10 2012 00:45 threshy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:40 Lunatics wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets When does respecting others ever not matter? And yes, when you use those words you ARE a bigot because you think there is something intrinsically bad about being black or being gay and therefore those words are insults. And no I'm not trolling, you don't get to attribute your own meaning to words. They have objective meaning. How can you say so positively with such uncertanty that because someone used a specific word in some instance somewhere, that you know 100% how they think and act and why they said it. That's complete bullshit. Don't be obtuse. The word Orb used is not generally ambiguous, and the context was clear. Moreover, his explanation was that he chose it because of its offensive connotations.
BECAUSE it is an effective way to attack someone, NOT because Orb is racist
|
FFGenerations,
There is so much wrong with your post. Your 'logic' makes absolutely no sense at all.
On March 09 2012 23:52 FFGenerations wrote:
i hope orb keeps casting somewhere,
Yes, I agree. He is a good caster and obviously has talent.
if he accidently lets slip with words like nigger or faggot or pedo or jew, then i will laugh, because my upbringing has not been to take offense to words but to actions and intent.
Same here. My upbringing has thought me not to take offense to this. However, my upbringing also thought me that 'context' is very important.
i was not born in the USA and didnt go through black history or black social studies in school; instead i watched south park where it is funny to call someone a stupid jew (approving genocide) and watched anime where it is funny to see a grown man get sexually teased by a little girl (pedophilia/portrayals of child abuse)
I was not born in the USA either. I didn't go through black history month, I do however have a basic knowledge of the 'slave history'.
I watch South Park, I love South Park and I too laugh at all the 'Nigger' and 'Jew' jokes. However, there is a context : comedy. The context of raging at someone online : hurting someone's feelings.
I will not comment on your anime comment, because I have never watched anime, so I have absolutely no knowledge of it.
this is because i can see a difference between fake things like words and real things like intent, and dont lump everything together. why would i lump them all together when , to me, there is a clear and vital difference?
Words are not fake. Words are very much real. Language is used for communication and thus very much real and useful. When your mother/father/girlfriend/boyfriend says to you 'I love you', will you say : 'Words are not real, so you telling me I am important to you does not affect me'.
Orb vented his frustration. What if his opponent was a black person who has been affected by racism. Do you really think those words would not hurt him?
words like nigger are used because they are very effective in riling up emotions. NOT because a person hates blacks, but because if he wants to piss off a particular black person then he can do it very easily by using that word! that is NOT racial hatred; it is just effective use of the english language.
The problem is NOT the victim the problem is 'the attacker'. If you want to hurt a black person by saying 'nigger' you either have no idea what social interaction/respect is, or you really do think black people are inferior and thus you believe calling someone a 'nigger' really is a good way of insulting someone, because you think 'niggers' are inferior.
if a person has a big nose then you can offend him more easily by calling him a big-nosed twat. if he is black then you can call him a nigger. you DONT hate on either big-nosed people or blacks in general, its just that you're using that word as an effective means to attack.
See my previous paragraph.
so , as many people have said, stop getting upset over the WORD - if the word is meaningless to the people who USE it then it should be also meaningless to YOU! it should NOT be offensive to hear the word nigger - it SHOULD be offensive if someone is intentionally discriminating against black people.
Why are you blaming the victim?
If you're a black person and someone over the internet calls you a nigger, how will you know that person thinks the word is meaningless? How could the opponent of Orb know Orb thinks it is a meaningless word?
And EVEN if Orb thinks it's a meaningless word, that doesn't matter. The victim is the person who gets the rage/hate, so the victim knows if he/she is offended by it.
Stop thinking words are just words. Words have a history.
it is my opinion that a word shouldnt be offensive , but instead we should pay attention to intentions
Again, it's not up to the attacker, it's up to the victim.
And last but not least : check your spelling and punctuation.
|
On March 10 2012 00:47 perestain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:45 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this Your "community" is full of bigots. Believe it or not, you are not the "greater group." You are a tiny tiny group of small minded people that is, thank god, slowly fading into obscurity. we are bigots HOW exactly? what is the bigoted action we are taking here? where is the discrimination? where is the abuse? you whole arguement comes down to "you should be sensitive to my perception of that particular word - it upsets me so please dont use it". okay fine. but using it doesnt make me a racist, it just makes me insensitive to your emotional feelings directly with regards to me using that particular word. as far as im concerned, in that case, if im going to call you an asshole for cheesing me, ill just as well call you a faggot. makes no difference to me. and in reality, makes no difference to how i am towards blacks or gays.
(please dont quote posts without adding content - you will get instantly Warned or Banned by a mod FYI)
|
On March 10 2012 00:45 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this Your "community" is full of bigots. Believe it or not, you are not the "greater group." You are a tiny tiny group of small minded people that is, thank god, slowly fading into obscurity. we are bigots HOW exactly? what is the bigoted action we are taking here? where is the discrimination? where is the abuse? you whole arguement comes down to "you should be sensitive to my perception of that particular word - it upsets me so please dont use it". okay fine. but using it doesnt make me a racist, it just makes me insensitive to your emotional feelings directly with regards to me using that particular word. as far as im concerned, in that case, if im going to call you an asshole for cheesing me, ill just as well call you a faggot. makes no difference to me. and in reality, makes no difference to how i am towards blacks or gays.
If you think that faggot is an insult, then you think that calling someone gay is insulting. You think being gay is inferior to being straight. You are a homophobe. You are more than just insensitive.
I'm shocked that I have to explain in such great detail what should be common sense.
|
On March 10 2012 00:47 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:44 Merlimoo wrote:On March 10 2012 00:42 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this The amount of rational explanation that you can contribute to this discussioin equals zero, thank you for that. It is fun that you think, what ever your peer group decides to do, is the way you should behave in public. Thank you for explaining to me, that you are not capable of defending your position with something else than exposing the amount of bigotry you are living with. The fact that you and your friends consider the term "Jew" to be an insult and not just the desciption of somebodys religious convictions makes me really sad. Hope you grow up, kiddo. He was trying to get you understand by your self that every group of people have different standard. And the one you and us live in is not necessarily the best because it is the biggest. Maybe you are not mature enough to step back a little and get it by yourself, kiddo. I do not have to accept the standards of people, if they are using inhumane language or practices. Or do you think, that as long as a group of people thinks it is ok to do something, they can do that?
Dumbhead, it is exactly what he is saying to you.
In his community, it is not offending. Why do prefer your version where it offends people? Geez...
|
On March 10 2012 00:35 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets When does respecting others ever not matter? And yes, when you use those words you ARE a bigot because you think there is something intrinsically bad about being black or being gay and therefore those words are insults. And no I'm not trolling, you don't get to attribute your own meaning to words. They have objective meaning.
What the fuck? I am not a bigot, lmao, and I'm pretty sure I've used "faggot" tonnes of times and "nigger" sarcastically. Nevermind that I actually go out of my way to volunteer my time fighting poverty and helping people who need it. Nah, I'm just a bigot because I say mean words when I'm angry. Get a grip. Brb people are bigots because of the way they talk, but not because of their actions. Words do not have objective meaning. Want me to prove it to you? The word "nigger" meant nothing before a human being coined it. Bam: not objective.
|
On March 10 2012 00:40 Sekijitsu wrote:
For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it.
This statement, to me, says a whole lot. How about anyone else?
of course it says alot.
The whole of EG would have been tainted when this happened, the sponsors wont be too happy atm. Id imagine that they got alot of complaints from people about this and EG need to fix their image with their sponsors before they start dropping out or something.
I think this is completely justified, dismissing him.
In ANY work environment (at least, any professional environment) this would result in instant dismissal, even if it was said jokingly
and all the people comparing it to idra, need to get real
|
On March 10 2012 00:39 Kickboxer wrote:
No amount of PhD's changes the fact that this entire smear campaign got an innocent man fired in order to make an example of him (which in itself is disgusting) in the name of some theoretical correlation between nerd dialect and hate in the real world.
Want to see the true face of hate? In case you went out of your way to inform on Orb, just look in the mirror.
Totally agree with this...
|
On March 10 2012 00:45 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 00:37 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:35 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:32 zocktol wrote:On March 10 2012 00:27 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:23 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 00:21 FFGenerations wrote:On March 10 2012 00:10 threshy wrote:
Orb's defenders are the ones playing semantic games. They urge the rational among us to ignore the universal understanding of words, and to redefine "rage" to be an emotion that absolves the one who feels it from all responsibility.
No because in REALITY the meaning of "nigger" , "fag" etc has a different meaning to the person USING the word. the REALITY is based on the INDIVIDUAL's perception, not some "universal" perception as you claim. (the universal perception being of course YOUR perception in this case, sigh) And exactly how are homosexuals and black people supposed to feel when they hear those words? Want some "REALITY?" Language is about communication. By definition it involves more than the individual. When you use language you MUST do so with the recipients in mind, otherwise why try to communicate at all? You do not get to apply complete relativism to language in the name if individualism because language is not individualistic. thats why people must be respectful of other's FEELINGS , WHEN IT MATTERS ie when someones feelings could be hurt but thats also why you should understand and accept that when you overhear someone using nigger fag then its NOT because theyre racist but because it doesnt hurt their feelings to use those words or because they (in rage/troll cases) its to attack someone but not because theyre racist you are trolling anyway , "language is not individualistic" what the hell does this mean? language is how we communicate concepts, and concepts are as individual and personal as it gets Language is used to communicate, hence the meaning of a word is defined by a greater group of people, because if only you know what you mean by usign a word language no longer has any meaning. "hohoho ihihihih akaka" might mean to me "hia" but does not do so for other people, but i am being "individualistic" with my language. Society defines language and under this impression the meaning of a word might be "felt" indivudally but it's definition is universal. okay well thats too bad for you, because in my community "fag" and "jew" and "nigger" are more associated with random fun insults or with rage-direct/trolly effective attacks than with sickening abuse of a people . the greater group of people says you are wasting your energy getting upset over this Your "community" is full of bigots. Believe it or not, you are not the "greater group." You are a tiny tiny group of small minded people that is, thank god, slowly fading into obscurity. we are bigots HOW exactly? what is the bigoted action we are taking here? where is the discrimination? where is the abuse? you whole arguement comes down to "you should be sensitive to my perception of that particular word - it upsets me so please dont use it". okay fine. but using it doesnt make me a racist, it just makes me insensitive to your emotional feelings directly with regards to me using that particular word. as far as im concerned, in that case, if im going to call you an asshole for cheesing me, ill just as well call you a faggot. makes no difference to me. and in reality, makes no difference to how i am towards blacks or gays.
Unless you are playing against somebody who is gay? Then you are insulting him because of his sexuality or showing him, that his sexuality is something that is insulting.
The word asshole is more suite, if you need to vent anger because all of us have an asshole :D
|
On March 10 2012 00:40 Sekijitsu wrote:
For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it.
This statement, to me, says a whole lot. How about anyone else?
Well no shit lol. The massive amount of poster here are missing the entire point. Doesnt matter what orb said or what he meant. All that matters is people went after the sponsors. At that point orb is done regardless. Nothing else matters. Contrary to popular belief here on TL EG is a tiny company and simply cant afford this kinda of heat. "But what about idra blah blah blah.." Idra doesn't get away with it because he wins. Idra gets away with it because people are not writing into the sponsors saying he is a homophobic bigot because he says faggot. Intel makes a call and idra is gone. Huk is gone. Hell scoots is gone. Because without the sponsor money there is no EG. No salaries, no flights, no videos, no shirts, no team.
So everyone can just back off of EG. Because all they did is what you the community forced them to do.
|
Kind of annoyed that you went and did the same painting us all with the same brush thing as Kotaku did on the FGC sexism issue, really great job Alex. You wouldn't base the attitude of the SC community based on the acts of Lalush so why would you do the same thing for Aris? Or is this referencing Marn's comments because if someone needs to tell you that Marn doesn't reflect the views of anyone else in the FGC I don't know what to say. To do the same thing as complete jokes of news sites like kotaku and destructoid is really pretty insulting, don't mistake a backlash against the outside world only giving a shit when someone does something wrong and calling for sweeping changes in a community they've never given a shit about before, to some pro-sexism bullshit.
I'd expect that sort of malformed logic out of someone like Jerith or Jared Rea but you're usually not so lackadaisical with your word choice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
