• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:54
CEST 08:54
KST 15:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway122v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature3Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris8Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : I made a 5.0.12/5.0.13 replay fix
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Victoria gamers Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL New season has just come in ladder BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group C Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1153 users

Bronze level players - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 45 Next All
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
March 14 2012 09:18 GMT
#401
On March 14 2012 15:36 freakhill wrote:
My point is that this guy, diamond at the time, wouldn't reach silver nowadays. He would be bronze. Btw your previous argument made no sens whatsoever.


No he wouldn't.
They play awful, but they partly have to because its on Steppes of War. Also they build workers, don't get supply blocked too much and they don't have 2k minerals after 6 minutes and they know basic safe openings which don't die to the most basic cheese. Means they are at least silver/gold, even if they play exactly like they did in the replay. They are just trying their best to react to the opponent on Steppes of War, its actually a pretty basic game from the first season if you're not a great but a solid player.

You probably don't remember how it felt to play on maps like Steppes of War or Incineration Zone without all the patch changes that we have nowadays, in days when barracks could be built before supply depot and reaper speed without factory, with faster bunker building time and faster zealot building time.

You just had to watch out for different things. Doesn't mean that the game was easier, it was just different. And these guys could still win against most bronze players just because they have more stuff, even if they build the wrong stuff at the wrong time.
Paint4blood
Profile Joined January 2012
United States4 Posts
March 14 2012 09:19 GMT
#402
I'm a bronze level player that is trying to get better. I understand the game, the mechanics, and I have good macro and decent micro. What I think players in bronze have a problem with is how to execute a build, meaning, when to apply pressure or when to bunker down and rebuild among other things. I'll be honest, I struggle with timings. I got my timings down up until I get my OC (terran player, doy). After that it ain't bad but far from perfect. Also I think me and my bronze homies need to learn what the meta game is all about.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 09:46:53
March 14 2012 09:45 GMT
#403
On March 14 2012 18:19 Paint4blood wrote:
I'm a bronze level player that is trying to get better. I understand the game, the mechanics, and I have good macro and decent micro. What I think players in bronze have a problem with is how to execute a build, meaning, when to apply pressure or when to bunker down and rebuild among other things. I'll be honest, I struggle with timings. I got my timings down up until I get my OC (terran player, doy). After that it ain't bad but far from perfect. Also I think me and my bronze homies need to learn what the meta game is all about.


I wouldn't focus too much on the strategy aspect. If you understand the game and have a decent grasp on which unit counters other units and what each unit does, how the tech paths look etc. you have enough knowledge to get out of bronze. Knowing good unit compositions and trying to mimic the pros is nice, but not even necessary really. There aren't bad units in SC2.
Metagame is NONEXISTANT in bronze. It just doesn't exist, your opponents can do every weird shit from fun smurf planetary fortress rushing to mass hydra only builds. There is no metagame, its just the game, and bronze players are pretty bad at playing it. There's no other way to say it.

Now you need the mechanics. You can't have good macro in bronze. It is just not possible, don't think that you have "good macro". I'm mid masters, playing against GM players and I think my macro is bad. You are correct about learning timings of your own build, don't think too strict and don't be too harsh with yourself, just be aware of your mistakes and say to yourself that you will make it better in the next game. Don't say to yourself that you are good at something, because that means that you will neglect it in your analysis. Be proud of something you have accomplished, because you have every reason to do so, Starcraft is a hard game. But always see it as a work in progress, don't be too critical about it but just be aware of whats possible theoretically and what you did in reality.
Another huge part of mechanics is being able to click with precision and to know all the hotkeys. I think thats the most crucial part if you want to get to platinum and diamond in no time. If you are comfortable with clicking each unit, if you can direct them where they should go very fast, if you can click on workers and build 4 buildings without needing 10 seconds to do it and without workers scattering everywhere you will sprint out of bronze. I think there was a day9 daily in which viewers sent replays and day9 watched them from their PoV and talked about what the camera should focus on, what you should focus on to improve to get better mechanics etc.. Every bronze player should watch it and just focus solely on improving in that regard (if they want to improve and not be stuck in bronze). Its the most important thing ever on every skill level really.

Learning how to execute a build is a nice way to learn the game, because it shows you whats possible in a well executed build and what you would have in one of your average bronze games. Just take a random build that has a timing attack at 9-10 minutes, compare the unit count a pro has and now try to mimic exactly what he was doing until you get the exact same unit count. I don't think its a necessary part of becoming better though, I never learned any BOs up to this day and I only do what I think is reasonable. If you reach a certain point its nice to just spy good players in tournaments and copy their timings (because usually they have a lot of thought and practice in their timings) to see how it works out. I don't know. It can be helpful to learn builds I guess and its a good measurement of how good you are (if you can keep up macroing until minute 9-10 and have the same amount of units as a pro player at that point you are doing fairly well I guess, usually you should get out of bronze with such a timing attack).
Paint4blood
Profile Joined January 2012
United States4 Posts
March 14 2012 10:10 GMT
#404
On March 14 2012 18:45 Bommes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 18:19 Paint4blood wrote:
I'm a bronze level player that is trying to get better. I understand the game, the mechanics, and I have good macro and decent micro. What I think players in bronze have a problem with is how to execute a build, meaning, when to apply pressure or when to bunker down and rebuild among other things. I'll be honest, I struggle with timings. I got my timings down up until I get my OC (terran player, doy). After that it ain't bad but far from perfect. Also I think me and my bronze homies need to learn what the meta game is all about.


I wouldn't focus too much on the strategy aspect. If you understand the game and have a decent grasp on which unit counters other units and what each unit does, how the tech paths look etc. you have enough knowledge to get out of bronze. Knowing good unit compositions and trying to mimic the pros is nice, but not even necessary really. There aren't bad units in SC2.
Metagame is NONEXISTANT in bronze. It just doesn't exist, your opponents can do every weird shit from fun smurf planetary fortress rushing to mass hydra only builds. There is no metagame, its just the game, and bronze players are pretty bad at playing it. There's no other way to say it.

Now you need the mechanics. You can't have good macro in bronze. It is just not possible, don't think that you have "good macro". I'm mid masters, playing against GM players and I think my macro is bad. You are correct about learning timings of your own build, don't think too strict and don't be too harsh with yourself, just be aware of your mistakes and say to yourself that you will make it better in the next game. Don't say to yourself that you are good at something, because that means that you will neglect it in your analysis. Be proud of something you have accomplished, because you have every reason to do so, Starcraft is a hard game. But always see it as a work in progress, don't be too critical about it but just be aware of whats possible theoretically and what you did in reality.
Another huge part of mechanics is being able to click with precision and to know all the hotkeys. I think thats the most crucial part if you want to get to platinum and diamond in no time. If you are comfortable with clicking each unit, if you can direct them where they should go very fast, if you can click on workers and build 4 buildings without needing 10 seconds to do it and without workers scattering everywhere you will sprint out of bronze. I think there was a day9 daily in which viewers sent replays and day9 watched them from their PoV and talked about what the camera should focus on, what you should focus on to improve to get better mechanics etc.. Every bronze player should watch it and just focus solely on improving in that regard (if they want to improve and not be stuck in bronze). Its the most important thing ever on every skill level really.

Learning how to execute a build is a nice way to learn the game, because it shows you whats possible in a well executed build and what you would have in one of your average bronze games. Just take a random build that has a timing attack at 9-10 minutes, compare the unit count a pro has and now try to mimic exactly what he was doing until you get the exact same unit count. I don't think its a necessary part of becoming better though, I never learned any BOs up to this day and I only do what I think is reasonable. If you reach a certain point its nice to just spy good players in tournaments and copy their timings (because usually they have a lot of thought and practice in their timings) to see how it works out. I don't know. It can be helpful to learn builds I guess and its a good measurement of how good you are (if you can keep up macroing until minute 9-10 and have the same amount of units as a pro player at that point you are doing fairly well I guess, usually you should get out of bronze with such a timing attack).


What I meant by "I am good" I meant I am good for the league I'm in. Of course I don't think I'm any where near even platinum league good. People say the best way to get better is to play people who are better than you, but I find this really difficult when anyone above bronze won't play against a bronzie. If I'm winning 90% of my matches (which I am atm) in my current league then how am I suppose to get better while I wait to get out of bronze? Then go to silver or gold and find out that I suck and possibly go back to bronze.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
March 14 2012 10:13 GMT
#405
On March 14 2012 19:10 Paint4blood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 18:45 Bommes wrote:
On March 14 2012 18:19 Paint4blood wrote:
I'm a bronze level player that is trying to get better. I understand the game, the mechanics, and I have good macro and decent micro. What I think players in bronze have a problem with is how to execute a build, meaning, when to apply pressure or when to bunker down and rebuild among other things. I'll be honest, I struggle with timings. I got my timings down up until I get my OC (terran player, doy). After that it ain't bad but far from perfect. Also I think me and my bronze homies need to learn what the meta game is all about.


I wouldn't focus too much on the strategy aspect. If you understand the game and have a decent grasp on which unit counters other units and what each unit does, how the tech paths look etc. you have enough knowledge to get out of bronze. Knowing good unit compositions and trying to mimic the pros is nice, but not even necessary really. There aren't bad units in SC2.
Metagame is NONEXISTANT in bronze. It just doesn't exist, your opponents can do every weird shit from fun smurf planetary fortress rushing to mass hydra only builds. There is no metagame, its just the game, and bronze players are pretty bad at playing it. There's no other way to say it.

Now you need the mechanics. You can't have good macro in bronze. It is just not possible, don't think that you have "good macro". I'm mid masters, playing against GM players and I think my macro is bad. You are correct about learning timings of your own build, don't think too strict and don't be too harsh with yourself, just be aware of your mistakes and say to yourself that you will make it better in the next game. Don't say to yourself that you are good at something, because that means that you will neglect it in your analysis. Be proud of something you have accomplished, because you have every reason to do so, Starcraft is a hard game. But always see it as a work in progress, don't be too critical about it but just be aware of whats possible theoretically and what you did in reality.
Another huge part of mechanics is being able to click with precision and to know all the hotkeys. I think thats the most crucial part if you want to get to platinum and diamond in no time. If you are comfortable with clicking each unit, if you can direct them where they should go very fast, if you can click on workers and build 4 buildings without needing 10 seconds to do it and without workers scattering everywhere you will sprint out of bronze. I think there was a day9 daily in which viewers sent replays and day9 watched them from their PoV and talked about what the camera should focus on, what you should focus on to improve to get better mechanics etc.. Every bronze player should watch it and just focus solely on improving in that regard (if they want to improve and not be stuck in bronze). Its the most important thing ever on every skill level really.

Learning how to execute a build is a nice way to learn the game, because it shows you whats possible in a well executed build and what you would have in one of your average bronze games. Just take a random build that has a timing attack at 9-10 minutes, compare the unit count a pro has and now try to mimic exactly what he was doing until you get the exact same unit count. I don't think its a necessary part of becoming better though, I never learned any BOs up to this day and I only do what I think is reasonable. If you reach a certain point its nice to just spy good players in tournaments and copy their timings (because usually they have a lot of thought and practice in their timings) to see how it works out. I don't know. It can be helpful to learn builds I guess and its a good measurement of how good you are (if you can keep up macroing until minute 9-10 and have the same amount of units as a pro player at that point you are doing fairly well I guess, usually you should get out of bronze with such a timing attack).


What I meant by "I am good" I meant I am good for the league I'm in. Of course I don't think I'm any where near even platinum league good. People say the best way to get better is to play people who are better than you, but I find this really difficult when anyone above bronze won't play against a bronzie. If I'm winning 90% of my matches (which I am atm) in my current league then how am I suppose to get better while I wait to get out of bronze? Then go to silver or gold and find out that I suck and possibly go back to bronze.


If you win 90% of your games you are fine and you should soon play against silver/gold level players and move on even further
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
March 14 2012 10:19 GMT
#406
On March 14 2012 19:10 Paint4blood wrote:
People say the best way to get better is to play people who are better than you, but I find this really difficult when anyone above bronze won't play against a bronzie.


I'm in gold at the moment, you can feel free to add me and hit me up for games. My ID is Lysenko.545.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Paint4blood
Profile Joined January 2012
United States4 Posts
March 14 2012 10:21 GMT
#407
I do play against silver every now and then and have only lost once out of about the little over a hand full of times I've played against a silver player. Also, I have played against a gold and barely lost to him. We both base traded but I was able to save one of my orbitals and float it behind some rocks. He only had a few DT's and one archon and I lost because I didn't put detection at the rocks and eventually ran out of scans.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1544 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 10:53:22
March 14 2012 10:52 GMT
#408
I was actually somewhat sympathetic for Bronze players before, but I was up early this morning trying to find distractions from studying for my comps and I read through all of Gheed's blog.

If you're in Bronze, you have no idea what the hell you're doing.

Until you start emulating people who do, as opposed to lying to yourself, you'll be stuck there. Forever.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
danielrosca
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania123 Posts
March 14 2012 11:04 GMT
#409
On March 14 2012 19:21 Paint4blood wrote:
Also, I have played against a gold and barely lost to him.

That's irrelevant, a gold to be paired with bronze is not gold in the first place. He's either tanking his mmr or just bad.
Latty
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany567 Posts
March 14 2012 11:06 GMT
#410
On March 14 2012 18:19 Paint4blood wrote:
I'm a bronze level player that is trying to get better. I understand the game, the mechanics, and I have good macro and decent micro. What I think players in bronze have a problem with is how to execute a build, meaning, when to apply pressure or when to bunker down and rebuild among other things. I'll be honest, I struggle with timings. I got my timings down up until I get my OC (terran player, doy). After that it ain't bad but far from perfect. Also I think me and my bronze homies need to learn what the meta game is all about.


really i dont want to insult you or be mean. but when you are in bronze and you say you have good macro and micro you are wrong. if you have good macro, just macro your way to 200/200 and attack. IF you have good macro you will be in gold or platinum quick. otherwise your macro is not good

i think that bronze- gold players are just more focused on fun then on winning. as soon as you want to win no matter what you work harder on your flaws and that automatically brings you into plat or more. i think everyone can play good its just the mindset and bit of talent.
"Nice, *claps* gogo kill kill, yeah bane speed, nice EU Power" Dimaga
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 11:08:43
March 14 2012 11:07 GMT
#411
On March 14 2012 19:52 LightSpectra wrote:
If you're in Bronze, you have no idea what the hell you're doing.


Look at the two replays posted for comments on the last page by the bronze player. The play has a lot of problems and a ton of opportunity for improvement but it's not the kind of unsalvageable mess you'd imagine from Gheed's blog. Remember he sees people only at their worst moment, dealing with a situation that requires an instant response that they rarely see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
muzzy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States640 Posts
March 14 2012 11:13 GMT
#412
I think it's funny all the Silver/Gold players saying "Oh ya, it's alot different now. The skill level is much better in these leagues than before". Sure, but he skill level has improved across all leagues. The difference between a Masters level player and a Bronze level player is probably even larger now than it was in the first seasons.

One of the big things I think holding people back is that kind of delusion that they "know the game" and are playing well, but just are stuck in their league. I have several friends like this. They memorize tons of builds (more than me, TBH), they repeat stuff they hear in casts, but they just don't really put that determined mindset into their play.

I think it's really more important to just keep hitting that "Find Match" button and speeding through the replays of the games you lost to find what went wrong.

I sometimes hop on my friend's accounts to check it out, and it's pretty obvious the difference (I'm mid-masters Zerg). You can pick apart the play at that level because it's very easy to see what the players are trying to do and what they're weak at. Usually they try and follow a strict build (don't deviate according to game conditions) and if you throw anything at them that is not standard, they fall apart.

Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
March 14 2012 11:20 GMT
#413
On March 14 2012 19:10 Paint4blood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 18:45 Bommes wrote:
On March 14 2012 18:19 Paint4blood wrote:
I'm a bronze level player that is trying to get better. I understand the game, the mechanics, and I have good macro and decent micro. What I think players in bronze have a problem with is how to execute a build, meaning, when to apply pressure or when to bunker down and rebuild among other things. I'll be honest, I struggle with timings. I got my timings down up until I get my OC (terran player, doy). After that it ain't bad but far from perfect. Also I think me and my bronze homies need to learn what the meta game is all about.


I wouldn't focus too much on the strategy aspect. If you understand the game and have a decent grasp on which unit counters other units and what each unit does, how the tech paths look etc. you have enough knowledge to get out of bronze. Knowing good unit compositions and trying to mimic the pros is nice, but not even necessary really. There aren't bad units in SC2.
Metagame is NONEXISTANT in bronze. It just doesn't exist, your opponents can do every weird shit from fun smurf planetary fortress rushing to mass hydra only builds. There is no metagame, its just the game, and bronze players are pretty bad at playing it. There's no other way to say it.

Now you need the mechanics. You can't have good macro in bronze. It is just not possible, don't think that you have "good macro". I'm mid masters, playing against GM players and I think my macro is bad. You are correct about learning timings of your own build, don't think too strict and don't be too harsh with yourself, just be aware of your mistakes and say to yourself that you will make it better in the next game. Don't say to yourself that you are good at something, because that means that you will neglect it in your analysis. Be proud of something you have accomplished, because you have every reason to do so, Starcraft is a hard game. But always see it as a work in progress, don't be too critical about it but just be aware of whats possible theoretically and what you did in reality.
Another huge part of mechanics is being able to click with precision and to know all the hotkeys. I think thats the most crucial part if you want to get to platinum and diamond in no time. If you are comfortable with clicking each unit, if you can direct them where they should go very fast, if you can click on workers and build 4 buildings without needing 10 seconds to do it and without workers scattering everywhere you will sprint out of bronze. I think there was a day9 daily in which viewers sent replays and day9 watched them from their PoV and talked about what the camera should focus on, what you should focus on to improve to get better mechanics etc.. Every bronze player should watch it and just focus solely on improving in that regard (if they want to improve and not be stuck in bronze). Its the most important thing ever on every skill level really.

Learning how to execute a build is a nice way to learn the game, because it shows you whats possible in a well executed build and what you would have in one of your average bronze games. Just take a random build that has a timing attack at 9-10 minutes, compare the unit count a pro has and now try to mimic exactly what he was doing until you get the exact same unit count. I don't think its a necessary part of becoming better though, I never learned any BOs up to this day and I only do what I think is reasonable. If you reach a certain point its nice to just spy good players in tournaments and copy their timings (because usually they have a lot of thought and practice in their timings) to see how it works out. I don't know. It can be helpful to learn builds I guess and its a good measurement of how good you are (if you can keep up macroing until minute 9-10 and have the same amount of units as a pro player at that point you are doing fairly well I guess, usually you should get out of bronze with such a timing attack).


What I meant by "I am good" I meant I am good for the league I'm in. Of course I don't think I'm any where near even platinum league good. People say the best way to get better is to play people who are better than you, but I find this really difficult when anyone above bronze won't play against a bronzie. If I'm winning 90% of my matches (which I am atm) in my current league then how am I suppose to get better while I wait to get out of bronze? Then go to silver or gold and find out that I suck and possibly go back to bronze.

Play 10 games a day for a week. If you still have 90% win ratio and haven't been promoted, mail Blizzard because there's obviously something wrong with the system unless your MMR is just... beyond saving.
interpolarity
Profile Joined February 2011
United States38 Posts
March 14 2012 11:22 GMT
#414
@ Paint4Blood

Replay Replay Replay. Without it it is impossible to understand at what level you mean "I have good macro and decent micro."
I have played since beta and I can honestly tell you I have quite subpar macro and now that I'm linking from asia to NA serv I can't even talk about micro. Please provide a replay so people can objectify your claims.
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 11:33:20
March 14 2012 11:31 GMT
#415
On March 14 2012 20:13 muzzy wrote:
I think it's funny all the Silver/Gold players saying "Oh ya, it's alot different now. The skill level is much better in these leagues than before". Sure, but he skill level has improved across all leagues. The difference between a Masters level player and a Bronze level player is probably even larger now than it was in the first seasons.


I'm probably one of those gold people you're referring to, and I say of course you're right, that's why those perma-bronze people are still bronze. If you merely keep up with your peers you won't get promoted.

I suspect, based on the nature of the mistakes I've seen people make over the seasons and my experiences with the matchmaking system, that plat has probably stayed about the same while silver through gold have compressed below it and diamond and up have spread out. in fifteen games I can go from playing silver players to plat and back again and they're all reasonably even matchups (though my odds are maybe 60/40 vs silver and 40/60 vs plat.). That certainly wasn't the case a few seasons ago at the same spot on the ladder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
TRnoSki
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom51 Posts
March 14 2012 11:31 GMT
#416
Most didn't seem to think it possible that someone play 2+ hours a day, watch Day9, follow the pro scene, review my own games, etc. and remain in bronze league; why, I don't know.


Same, although I am a few leagues higher up.
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, where the heck is the ceiling.
jspark703
Profile Joined April 2011
39 Posts
March 14 2012 11:47 GMT
#417
I, myself, am a Top 20 Dia and I consider myself as a pretty bad player with bad micro and bad macro..(I often play against low masters and my win rate against them is somewhat 50% but i have absolutely no chance of winning when i meet high-mid-masters)
I often play 1v1 custom games and often meet bronze-gold players as well. The skill level of bronze-gold has improved significantly, but other leagues have improved as well. The biggest problems with bronze-gold players are game knowledge, execution, mechanics...well everything. And I believe EVERYONE is capable of reaching platinum with proper training and if they go serious about it.
A friend of mine, who started in silver league (he is very bad at gaming), is now in platinum enjoying his games. He played less than 10 hours a week but we met up every week and I gave him some advice how to play the game. He said he would have stayed in silver forever if I hadnt helped him.
My point is, some players can reach masters on their own (I think top dia is my limit without the help of better players) while others need some help to get further. For instance, I cheesed him multiple times in many different ways and told him how to block certain types of cheeses, how to block a 4gate rush, how to punish players not walling off as a zerg, what to do when you dont have detection and a DT or a cloaked banshee is in your base, etc.
Nobody is a forever bronze or silver unless you are physically or mentally disabled, you just need the proper guide to play the game better :D
TheGreenMachine
Profile Joined March 2010
United States730 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 11:54:31
March 14 2012 11:53 GMT
#418
To be honest, the worse you consider yourself but you keep practicing the more you will improve.

If you think your macro is way better than it should be for your league, chances are that you will not be improving your macro during your games. In bronze "good macro" for bronze is still really really bad and you could improve it in a hundred ways.

Also good macro in bronze might just be you taking risks without understanding anything. Could be the situation where you say "i always win macro games" but you go 16 hatch 17 pool and blindly make drones (my plat friend does this... curse him). This is a false sense of thinking your macro is good. Real good macro is doing a lot with what you have not taking dumb risks.

Pick out mistakes in your play, if you cannot see mistakes you will not get better. Compare yourself to players better than you and see WHY they are better, this is how you will improve.
Don't forget to get everyone you know to play HOTS so this game we love called Starcraft will live on. Every little bit helps. ^^
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 13:20:57
March 14 2012 13:19 GMT
#419
On March 14 2012 20:07 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 19:52 LightSpectra wrote:
If you're in Bronze, you have no idea what the hell you're doing.


Look at the two replays posted for comments on the last page by the bronze player. The play has a lot of problems and a ton of opportunity for improvement but it's not the kind of unsalvageable mess you'd imagine from Gheed's blog. Remember he sees people only at their worst moment, dealing with a situation that requires an instant response that they rarely see.


Just echoing this. I have played 450 games in silver and gold EU. I have seen ONE worker rush. And technically that's a lie, because the guy quit before I got to see his workers, as he'd scouted me last out of three spawn positions. If I saw 6 workers streaming into my base at whatever the usual time is, I might well be thrown off enough to lose the game. And I'd probably never ever see it again.

Gheed's little exercise definitely proves the average bad player will lose to a worker rush.
You could probably extrapolate from that that bronze players don't have fast reactions to unexpected situations. I'd definitely support this notion, it explains a massive amount of their difficulties.
You can't extrapolate from this that "bronze players have no idea what they're doing", because they don't instantly recognise or know the response to an absurdly rare strat.
Apz
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden9 Posts
March 14 2012 13:22 GMT
#420
I'm back!

Ok, so fo those that didnt see my post a few pages back i'm completly new, even to rts.

So had an hour for some 1vs1 last night, and since i had read that macro is good way to learn I had checked out Taerix guide. As some might remember i hadnt won a game before.

Following the start build was both easier and harder then i thought. Before i used to queue units to buy extra time, but since i need to elarn i never do now, even if i notice I'm freaking out.

So first game.....Ok, i fucked up badly. Completly messed up, even tho i had written down on a piece of paper the start of it. And got wiped out by stalkers.

Well, I knew i had screwed up, and pretty much with what, so BACK ON THE HORSE!

Next game. Oh zerg. This will be fun....well, not, he was lovering his mmr.

Next game. O....well, exactly the same as above.
Dammit, will i ever get any training?

Yes, yes i did.

So its terran vs terrann in teh 4th game. Since I wont say anything bad about him, and I really enjoyed the game, I will use his name. His name was YANOZ.

I managed to follow the build plan decently up to his first poke, where I missed out soem builds and stuff. But not anythign major.

Problems arose when I was on 3rd base had about 6-7 barracks, and no queing. I was starting to freak out. Not building enough supply depots, missing building new troops when I sent troops forward or exanding to the 4th and so on, and see that supply go up...

Anyway, I was focusing on marines and marauders, as the idea of it was, but YANOZ made tanks and air units. So I had to get some defense up, and built 3 starports and soem hellions.

I decided to attack. if elt that the more i drag it out at that point the more i will screw up.

I get to his base, wipes out everything except his CC that he lifts and flies off with. At the same time he has attacked my base and I tries to get my troops back to save what i can. It doesnt work. Luckily, my 5th base was a bit off, so he had some travel time to get there. I only had like 10 marines there and some workers, so I knew I was lost.

However, what do i see? I have 2 vikings that ive missed to get home from his base, and i knew in which direction his base had went so I finds it. Can swear it cant have been more then a few secs before iw as gonan be wiped out. But thye managed to get it down and I won.

Game took about 35 min, so was imo good training. Had chance to train at building lots of stuf at the same time, and was overall a pleasant experience.
Also, chatted some with YANOZ after and he had also had a good time.

However, the statistics after had 1 very abd thing. AVerage unspent supplies:....5280

I keep hearing about ppl getting shit in and after games from other players. I might ahve been jsut lucky, but never had anything like it. MIght be that in bronze people dont take things as deadly serious at higher ladders. Or that most have a casual approach to it.

Oh, and got my 3win hot streak achivment since the 2 before had left^^

Anyway, just wanted to share a pleasant experience
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 45 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 242
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 1575
Pusan 521
firebathero 325
ToSsGirL 132
sorry 99
Noble 27
Free 25
JulyZerg 25
ajuk12(nOOB) 24
Sharp 20
[ Show more ]
Icarus 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm101
XcaliburYe89
League of Legends
JimRising 659
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K923
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King18
Other Games
summit1g6375
C9.Mang0290
SortOf94
Trikslyr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick942
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH290
• davetesta10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota263
League of Legends
• Lourlo1112
• Stunt427
• HappyZerGling92
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 6m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4h 6m
Zoun vs Bunny
herO vs Solar
Replay Cast
17h 6m
LiuLi Cup
1d 4h
BSL Team Wars
1d 12h
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Classic vs Percival
Spirit vs NightMare
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
4 days
RotterdaM Event
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSLAN 3
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.