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On February 24 2012 18:36 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:20 Grumbels wrote:On February 24 2012 18:10 Zooper31 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. Alive started the cheesing, he just ended it with cheesing. If anything Alive is at fault for showing Idra he didn't care about the showmatch and that good games weren't going to be shown so he decided to not waste his time. "It's aLive's fault for upsetting IdrA's fragile mental balance and making him tilt, IdrA himself is not to blame." Can't people be responsible for their own actions anymore? I didn't acuse Idra of tilting. He was totally willing to go into this game to show good matches and entertain fans since it's a showmatch. 2 games in and Alive is going balls to the wall all-ins and shows he gives a fuck about entertaining anyone at long as he wins. Idra's like, ok bro lets play that game and proceeds to cheese right back. What is wrong with that? I can prob gurantee if Alive won both those games by playing normal than Idra wouldn't have cheesed the way he did because at least the games were entertaining and lasted longer than 5min. Amazing no one hates on Alive for cheesing twice in a row but they all hate on Idra for doing it.
Because, they aren't hating on cheese, just more that IdrA would so easily throw the games while not caring, cheese is a part of the game, if you can't beat it get out.
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bringing chess examples is always arguable, but if white (aLive) opens with a scholar's mate and black (IdrA) cannot setup his peons the right way to stop it, is it really whites (aLives) fault when the game does end quickly?
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On February 24 2012 19:57 Heimatloser wrote:
bringing chess examples is always arguable, but if white (aLive) opens with a scholar's mate and black (IdrA) cannot setup his peons the right way to stop it, is it really whites (aLives) fault when the game does end quickly?
Scholar's mate is a coinflip! It's not fun and white doesn't deserve to win.
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On February 24 2012 19:14 Surth wrote:
That's not how e-sports work, kiddo. It is IdrAs job to win tournaments because the tournaments give him money. These tournaments make money by having paying customers. These paying customers (thats us, genius) want to be entertained, or they (we) won't dish out money for the tournament. In other words, IT IS IDRAS JOB TO ENTERTAIN ME.
His job is whatever his contract says his job is, not anything you extrapolate from your own understanding of how things work. It's silly to act like the progamers actually owe you anything - you're watching SC2 because you yourself enjoy spending time that way, you're not doing anyone any favors.
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On February 24 2012 20:12 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 19:14 Surth wrote:
That's not how e-sports work, kiddo. It is IdrAs job to win tournaments because the tournaments give him money. These tournaments make money by having paying customers. These paying customers (thats us, genius) want to be entertained, or they (we) won't dish out money for the tournament. In other words, IT IS IDRAS JOB TO ENTERTAIN ME. His job is whatever his contract says his job is, not anything you extrapolate from your own understanding of how things work. It's silly to act like the progamers actually owe you anything - you're watching SC2 because you yourself enjoy spending time that way, you're not doing anyone any favors.
exactly
and we are not even spending money for watching the tournaments so i dont know why he should owe you anything surth...
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6 pool can easily win vs terran that don't wall off. It's a valid cheese if you expect the terran not to.
Alive outplayed Idra when he 6 pooled, nothing more to it.
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On February 24 2012 19:47 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 19:03 nokz88 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans. So, in short, you want to see NR15 matches? My idea of entertainment is kinda like MMA vs DongRaeGu Blizzard Cup finals, where well executed rush games keep things on suspense, and macro games are created not by a goddamn agreement, but by incredible ability from both parties to hold aggressive play. Lemme correct that statement you made If you're going to lose 4 games in a row, 2 by failing to stop an allin and 2 by failing your own cheese, then you clearly don't have the ability to entertain the fans. Ask yourself: Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese? Pretty sure I'll take macro. I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game. Or if Idra held it off, then counter all-ined and aLive held it off, then they settled into a macro game. I'm using the term all-in loosely as they weren't really all-ins to begin with..it's not like he sent all his SCVs with the attack. There are many more scenarios that are more entertaining/exciting than waiting 15 minutes before either side attacks to get to a macro game. But I agree, losing to early pressure builds is not very entertaining, but that's nobody's fault other than the loser's.
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On February 24 2012 20:26 Devolved wrote:
[Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game.
If you hold those all ins, you should win without having to take it to any kind of 'macro' game. Holding it is winning most of the time. Especially the double factory hellions. And that is all in.
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does the stream keep going offline for everyone? (stream 1)
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On February 24 2012 20:29 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 20:26 Devolved wrote:
[Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game.
If you hold those all ins, you should win without having to take it to any kind of 'macro' game. Holding it is winning most of the time. Especially the double factory hellions. And that is all in.
Most of the time, but not all of the time. And it's not all-in if you can do damage, which is the point of early pressure builds. It's why they work and it's why they're not all-ins. An all-in would imply that you would lose 100% if you don't kill your opponent. But with early pressure builds, all you need is to do a certain amount of damage and you have accomplished your goal of getting ahead in the game.
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On February 24 2012 20:34 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 20:29 aebriol wrote:On February 24 2012 20:26 Devolved wrote:
[Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game.
If you hold those all ins, you should win without having to take it to any kind of 'macro' game. Holding it is winning most of the time. Especially the double factory hellions. And that is all in. Most of the time, but not all of the time. And it's not all-in if you can do damage, which is the point of early pressure builds.
2 rax is a pressure opening that have to do some damage or you are far far behind.
2 factory hellions is an all in. Just like two port banshee.
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I really think blizzard has to make a new patch .. Players can only atack after 15 game minutes , that way no more rush or cheese and allows great players like Idra win 100% of their matchups ..
6 pool on big maps is as good as probe rushing , especially if the opponent walls in
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On February 24 2012 19:47 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 19:03 nokz88 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans. So, in short, you want to see NR15 matches? My idea of entertainment is kinda like MMA vs DongRaeGu Blizzard Cup finals, where well executed rush games keep things on suspense, and macro games are created not by a goddamn agreement, but by incredible ability from both parties to hold aggressive play. Lemme correct that statement you made If you're going to lose 4 games in a row, 2 by failing to stop an allin and 2 by failing your own cheese, then you clearly don't have the ability to entertain the fans. Ask yourself: Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese? Pretty sure I'll take macro. I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
yea dude, keep dodging the real question, that will eventually win an argument, when I get tired of arguing with you...sigh
Okay one last try, and if it does not work I'll just give up, you win by sheer stubbornness
Q: Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese?
A: 4 macro games, obviously. Just not fake macro games, where you tell the other guy "Hey, no rush okay? Let's triple expand and then go at each other", but real macro games, where both sides take the game to that point by holding off aggressive play.
Q: I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
A: To win, which happens to be the whole goddamn point of this, and every other competition. Why is that so hard to understand?
If cheesing will get you a win, you cheese. If all inning will get you a win, you all in. If macro games will get you a win, you go for it. If drinking Hot6 through your nose and smashing your head into the monitor will get you a win, you fucking do it.
Win first
Everything else second
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HOLY COW
You know the Ghost nerf is messed up when fucking-mother-god-damn-bloody-'apologise for playing that race' I D R A says it's too much...!!!!
MIND == BLOWN
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Shiro: It’s been several months since you started training in the SlayerS house. Do you feel like your play has improved since you arrived? In what way?
IdrA: Massively so in a lot of ways, playing the Korean ladder forces you to be much cleaner and safer because everyone has such well designed aggressive builds. You can’t cut corners, at all. And then of course practicing with the SlayerS members just gets you used to playing against great players, which is the best way to practice and improve in general.
Meanwhile IdrA is 2-17 map score in 2012. Can't stop laughing when reading his response :D
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so he's spent 2 months in the slayers house and he considers hellion openings cheese? LOL
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On February 24 2012 21:45 CursedRich wrote:
so he's spent 2 months in the slayers house and he considers hellion openings cheese? LOL
There's a difference between 2fac mass hellion and a standard hellion opening.
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
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Not sure whether I am suppose to be more amused about Idra's answer to the six pools, or about the reaction of his obviously not thinking fanboys, who either think that there is no viable transition from a failed two rax (wrong, see some of boxer's game) or that there is a viable transition from a failed six pool against terran (wrong, against protoss, you might have the chance to do enough damage to be somewhat equal; against terran and their common wall-offs, this is not possible).
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EPT
