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I got a chance to interview IdrA before he left for the MLG Winter Arena and get his thoughts on a couple things. He gives his statement on the six-pool, his thoughts on the MLG Winter Arena, and a very detailed description of his problems with the state of Zerg vs Terran and v Protoss in a post-1.4.3 StarCraft 2.
Shiro: It’s been several months since you started training in the SlayerS house. Do you feel like your play has improved since you arrived? In what way?
IdrA: Massively so in a lot of ways, playing the Korean ladder forces you to be much cleaner and safer because everyone has such well designed aggressive builds. You can’t cut corners, at all. And then of course practicing with the SlayerS members just gets you used to playing against great players, which is the best way to practice and improve in general.
Shiro: Your recent showmatch with aLive caused a bit of controversy when you opted to six-pool twice in a row. Would you mind explaining what happened on your end?
IdrA: He cheesed me successfully on two of the better zerg maps in the pool and it was just a showmatch I was asked to play a few hours beforehand. Alive is an excellent player and hes willing to take risks, a player like that is very hard to beat and given the map pool I didn’t think I had a realistic chance of coming back from down 0-2. The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other.
The rest of the interview's over at
http://myeg.net/team/eg-idra-id-like-to-redeem-myself/
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Wow, interesting. They don't give the players a few days to prepare even though the match was announced on a Wednesday and broadcast on a Sunday?
That's really strange...
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Is there a vod of this? It sounds like a very amusing series.
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So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra.
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On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra.
No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
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Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty.
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It's interesting to hear his balance thoughts.
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
should just put more equal skilled people against each other if you want this. showmatches shoulndt be forced to be lategame only just because one is better than the other
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What builds did alive go?
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The matches were played very much in advance. Hell, the results were leaked before the broadcast even started.
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On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty.
yeah, honesty is what make people love/hate him.
hes always honest and doesnt give those BS answers. one of the biggest reasons why i like him so much
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On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty.
Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment.
Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever".
Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten.
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
indeed.
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i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other."
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On February 24 2012 09:21 GinDo wrote:
What builds did alive go?
11/11 in the first game and then double reactor hellion in the second one if I recall correctly, not quite sure about the first game.
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On February 24 2012 09:21 GinDo wrote:
What builds did alive go?
2 rax bunker rush, then double reactor hellions.
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
someone dig up the quote from idra about starcraft not being pro-wrestling and how gamers should be playing to win above all else.
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only if DRG through his game when he's behind
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I wonder how he feels about going up against the beastly protoss player from FXO Oz.
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Why is the title misleading and it's on eg's own site? "I'd like to redeem myself" was regarding a Nestea rematch, nothing to do with his six pools against aLive.
Still, it was a good interview. I hope IdrA does well, and I agree that PvZ is just generally not that great a match up. The turtle/deathballs is just plain boring, as is the nature of 2 base all-ins all the time, although at least those are micro intense. It's pretty bad when PvP is my favorite protoss match up to watch. I'm also glad to hear he practices a lot with SlayerS. Sometimes I got the impression he just lives with them and ladders.
Edit: actually, it was the quote in the OP that, in tandem with the article title, is a bit misleading. The article itself doesn't put that out front. Still, it's the "most recent Idrama" and is a natural association.
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Self-awareness you're doing something bad doesn't necessarily deserve respect.
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At least he was gracious enough to the viewers to throw the games with 6 pools, rather than wasting our time by playing for a bit and then quitting because he had the opinion he probably wouldn't be able to win despite beign on 200 supply.
It does make you wonder why anyone gets Idra to play in showmatches, I think the only reason anyone watches is to see what crap coems out of it, be it early GG's, 6 pools, BM or something else. You don't watch an Idra showmatch for the quality of the games, only for the drama.
Can't argue with his opinion on the Phoenix change though, it's terribly executed and doesn't really fix any of the issues with mutalisk based play.
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I assume the games were casted from replays so they could have been played before the initiall annonucement.
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IdrA sounds like he's pumped for this tournament. I'm not that much of an IdrA fan but an IdrA that's playing well is good for everybody, it creates such meaningless controversy when he's having a bad run. He's very honest about the balance situation. I tend to agree with him this time.
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
I don't even...
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Thanks for the interview, I don't really understand all the hate for Idra I think it's mostly misplaced and hope to see some good results in the next few tournaments he plays in.
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i like his insight on the recent patch. he has some inteseresting things to say about the zvt and zvp matchups.
i dont care what people think of his attitude, i think hes a cool guy 
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
Korean mentality? Ever heard of BoxeR, who puts his fans before winning? NaDa, who's just as awesome? Flash? iloveoov? MMA? Those guys are too awesome because they want to show good matches WHILE winning, but for BoxeR who just wants to show good matches. Everybody knows IdrA is a whiner from the beginning, and since he couldn't simply ragequit, he decided to throw the games.
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On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten.
In all fairness, aLive cheesed him twice which isn't much more entertaining than two sixpools. I'm not saying IdrA should have done it, we shouldn't condemn him for it.
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In one of the questions why does it say the patch hits the NA server 1 day before MLG? i thought it already hit
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
reminds me of huk vs. nestea showmatch. where huk played seriously, and nestea was trying to show a good game. korean mentality and all..... =P
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So . .. He thought the showmatch was going to be horrible because Alive was going to do coinflip builds - so he made it worse by doing the most uninspired coin flip builds. Sigh . . . .. .
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Every single zerg in idra shoes if playing for the win and not to put on a good showmatch would of 6pooled when down 2-0. I didn't see the games so I apologize if it was on some stupid map like Calm, but there is a high prob. that a terran like alive will 14cc in g3 vs a macro heavy player known for never rushing, then 14 cc after getting 6pooled in g4. You would be an idiot not to 6pool in that situation unless you were relative to alives skill, which in this case idra is not, IMO. I would even go as far to say 6pool on game 5 aswell if it is not a 2 player map.
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On February 24 2012 09:29 SonOfBoxer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... Korean mentality? Ever heard of BoxeR, who puts his fans before winning? NaDa, who's just as awesome? Flash? iloveoov? MMA? Those guys are too awesome because they want to show good matches WHILE winning, but for BoxeR who just wants to show good matches. Everybody knows IdrA is a whiner from the beginning, and since he couldn't simply ragequit, he decided to throw the games.
Well I think the point he was making was that ALive decided to Cheese Games 1 and 2. He put winning the series above showing good games aka Not cheesing both games.
Since he cheesed Idra on the 2 zerg favored maps; Idra cheese on the 2 terren maps. I don't really see the difference in what they did.... just that Alive cheeses better than Idra which really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none
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lol, you only have to read a few comments to know the gist behind idra... you either love him or you hate him. people like that are polarizing and is why they'll always be a topic of conversation. whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant
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The broodlord/infestor turtle vs vortex late game situation is also awful and needs to be fixed. The matchup is just bad in general. Everything comes down to whether or not protoss hits their forcefields, and then whether zerg can avoid a good vortex if it gets to late game.
So true, zvp is disgustingly bad :c
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Wow, Idra still think coin flips exist, even tho he trained in Korea. Amazing.
Well, perhaps he knows there is no really such thing (at least that 11/11 is not a "coin flip", especially not versus him), but he hopes his remaining fans will pick that sentence and use it to defend him.
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On February 24 2012 09:32 Forikorder wrote:
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none
Naniwa received a way bigger backlash. Stephano arguably received an equivalent backlash, you just don't hear about it as much as anything IdrA related, generally. There's no double standard.
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On February 24 2012 09:25 pepsimaxibon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... someone dig up the quote from idra about starcraft not being pro-wrestling and how gamers should be playing to win above all else.
But it's a showmatch though... Emphasis on SHOW...
I understand IdrA's POV, even if I don't empathize with it. Should've just played it out instead of causing a ruckus..
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losing respect for idra day by day smh. Even though it was a showmatch that doesn't mean all-ins are taboo. Double 6 pooling however would be like if alive had gone for a completely blind 5 rax marine proxy all in. The point is that once again IdrA is being idra and i can't believe people respect him for that.
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On February 24 2012 09:32 Forikorder wrote:
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none
Yes, because the community always has an unanimous opinion about everything. Seriously, do you even believe what you write? Some people were upset with Naniwa, others less so, same for Stephano and IdrA. But you have to invent a revisionist history where suddenly everyone has a double standard about him. You are the one that has the double standard.
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It is more than possible to survive Alive's builds, and take a minimal amount of damage.
The only coinflip part is when Idra failed to react and prepare properly and died straightout.
Typical Idra - blame the opponent when he fails.
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Typical Idra. He is the most frustrating player to follow.
He remindes me of a few sports stars that I have followed. They have amazing tallent and when they play well they leave you in awe. But their mental attitude prevents them from achiving their true potential and leaves everyone wondering what they could have been.
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On February 24 2012 09:37 MrCon wrote:
Wow, Idra still think coin flips exist, even tho he trained in Korea. Amazing.
Well, perhaps he knows there is no really such thing (at least that 11/11 is not a "coin flip", especially not versus him), but he hopes his remaining fans will pick that sentence and use it to defend him.
coin flip builds still exist, 6 pooling for instance is a coin flip build
every all-in is a coin flip build
most mid game timings are coin flips
like for instance if you go for an early hellion/marauder push thats a coin flip
if you go for a fast roach baneling all-in thats a coinflip
if you 4 gate off one base thats a coin flip
if you DT rush thats a coin flip
On February 24 2012 09:40 architecture wrote:
It is more than possible to survive Alive's builds, and take a minimal amount of damage.
The only coinflip part is when Idra failed to react and prepare properly and died straightout.
Typical Idra - blame the opponent when he fails.
he didnt blame Alive, yes it is possible to survive the builds easily, it is also possible to die easily, hence calling them a coinflip build, your flipping a coin and hoping they arent prepared
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Anyone else not satisfied with idra's answer for why phoenix buff is bad? He says blizz is dumb and proceeds to describe the midgame role of the muta, without saying why the buff was a poor choice.
Is he implying that the midgame muta will now be insufficient in buying enough time for zerg macro? He said the late game protoss army will already beat a muta army. So, was the phoenix buff unnecessary in his opinion?
Not very clear
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I think IdrA did a good job describing what is wrong with ZvP/PvZ
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On February 24 2012 09:40 docvoc wrote:
losing respect for idra day by day smh. Even though it was a showmatch that doesn't mean all-ins are taboo. Double 6 pooling however would be like if alive had gone for a completely blind 5 rax marine proxy all in. The point is that once again IdrA is being idra and i can't believe people respect him for that.
you realize alive went proxy 2 rax and double reactor hellion in games 1 and 2?
So yea its exactly equivalent... that was the point lol
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Please don't start to get all riled up about this again, it was annoying the first time it happened, no need to dig up something that was buried already. All arguments have been exchanged.
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On February 24 2012 09:41 Kfcnoob wrote:
Anyone else not satisfied with idra's answer for why phoenix buff is bad? He says blizz is dumb and proceeds to describe the midgame role of the muta, without saying why the buff was a poor choice.
Is he implying that the midgame muta will now be insufficient in buying enough time for zerg macro? He said the late game protoss army will already beat a muta army. So, was the phoenix buff unnecessary in his opinion?
Not very clear
its not clear why a lte game upgrade wont be out in time to stop mid game mutas?
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Really nice and short interview, very interesting thoughts on the balance changes.
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On February 24 2012 09:41 Kfcnoob wrote:
Anyone else not satisfied with idra's answer for why phoenix buff is bad? He says blizz is dumb and proceeds to describe the midgame role of the muta, without saying why the buff was a poor choice.
Is he implying that the midgame muta will now be insufficient in buying enough time for zerg macro? He said the late game protoss army will already beat a muta army. So, was the phoenix buff unnecessary in his opinion?
Not very clear
You know it's Idra.
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you fans arent seeing your "massive" improvement from staying at the slayers house. if anything they see you ragequit more and more
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On February 24 2012 09:41 Kfcnoob wrote:
Anyone else not satisfied with idra's answer for why phoenix buff is bad? He says blizz is dumb and proceeds to describe the midgame role of the muta, without saying why the buff was a poor choice.
Is he implying that the midgame muta will now be insufficient in buying enough time for zerg macro? He said the late game protoss army will already beat a muta army. So, was the phoenix buff unnecessary in his opinion?
Not very clear
Sounded like because of the cost and time it takes to get, the upgrade could only serve as making the Protoss deathball even stronger which it doesn't even need and the muta problem happens mid-game not late-game, so Protoss needs a mid-game option that means they can attack without risking an immediate base-trade.
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I fucking love watching IdrA play, however I don't buy his response about the showmatch. It's more of a face-saving comment than anything.
I personally love all-in's and cheese and I believe they are necessary. I think they make the game more exciting/upredictable and tightens up the allowable set of builds that can be done.
When a cheese works and the cheeser cake-walks over his opponent they suck to watch, but when someone holds it off or beats the cheese it is always fun and exciting to watch.
Sometimes when the cheese works it's exciting like with Game 1 MMA vs MVP at Blizzcon GSL Finals. That was some excellent cheese.
I do think IdrA is spot on about PvZ and and I think the same applies to an extent to PvT. Those matchups just aren't that fun to watch imo. The way that SC2 Protoss interacts with the other two races right now is just uninteresting. PvP is much more enjoyable now that you can't 4 Gate everything. Protoss is just wonky :/
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I don't think his playstyle has changed as much but everything looks a bit more refined, as if the only thing he focused on were his mechanics/playing cleanly.
Hopefully he'll do well at MLG, I always like to watch him haha.
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On February 24 2012 09:25 pepsimaxibon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... someone dig up the quote from idra about starcraft not being pro-wrestling and how gamers should be playing to win above all else.
SHOWmatch, bro.
SHOWMATCH.
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well geez guys instead of just talking about that one game... cause imo the biggest takeaway is the views on balance... I think a lot of pros are saying turtle-mech will make a comeback, and meh thats sad cause i hate mech 
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Nobody mentioned Idra's comment on TvZ post ghost nerf? If Idra says it that zerg has the upperhand, you know everything has gone down the drain.
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Oh God are you people going to start this AGAIN?
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On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten.
It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool.
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read this interview, pretty good, really wish Greg would get in a better state mentally, dont want to see him lose first round at MLG
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On February 24 2012 09:32 Forikorder wrote:
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none
Did you somehow miss the HUGE SHITSTORMS over both of those events?
I fail to see any double standards at all, both Naniwa and Stephano were punished by the respective tournament organizations. Since Idra's was a showmatch, there's no one to enforce anything from him other than people bitching. So if anything, Idra is getting off way easier.
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On February 24 2012 09:46 Tipany wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:25 pepsimaxibon wrote:On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... someone dig up the quote from idra about starcraft not being pro-wrestling and how gamers should be playing to win above all else. SHOWmatch, bro. SHOWMATCH.
surprisingly ( :D :D ) entertaining games come from both players wanting to win, not from "PLSNR20 KK?"
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On February 24 2012 09:41 Kfcnoob wrote:
Anyone else not satisfied with idra's answer for why phoenix buff is bad? He says blizz is dumb and proceeds to describe the midgame role of the muta, without saying why the buff was a poor choice.
Is he implying that the midgame muta will now be insufficient in buying enough time for zerg macro? He said the late game protoss army will already beat a muta army. So, was the phoenix buff unnecessary in his opinion?
Not very clear
His wording might not be clear but if you understand the game you know where hes coming from. Hes saying that the phx upgrade is not useful late game but the archon/HT/mothership/blink stalker is super effective against a player that stays on mutas.
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On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool.
Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games.
Or do you know Idra's job better than he does?
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On February 24 2012 09:49 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:32 Forikorder wrote:
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none Did you somehow miss the HUGE SHITSTORMS over both of those events? I fail to see any double standards at all, both Naniwa and Stephano were punished by the respective tournament organizations. Since Idra's was a showmatch, there's no one to enforce anything from him other than people bitching. So if anything, Idra is getting off way easier.
This. Naniwa and Stephano both had to release public apologies cause of all the shit that came there way Lol. >_<
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On February 24 2012 09:49 Nazeron wrote:
read this interview, pretty good, really wish Greg would get in a better state mentally, dont want to see him lose first round at MLG
He's playing Oz. You can guess he thinks he's going to lose anyway.
I hope he has something planned for Oz, it would be sweet to see him win or at least play some competitive games.
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On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other."
Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch.
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On February 24 2012 09:41 Kfcnoob wrote:
Anyone else not satisfied with idra's answer for why phoenix buff is bad? He says blizz is dumb and proceeds to describe the midgame role of the muta, without saying why the buff was a poor choice.
Is he implying that the midgame muta will now be insufficient in buying enough time for zerg macro? He said the late game protoss army will already beat a muta army. So, was the phoenix buff unnecessary in his opinion?
Not very clear
He is saying the balance patch was intended to fix heavy numbers of mutalisk play. However if protoss defends properly and gets a blink stalker storm composition, then the heavy mutalisk player is the one in trouble because the army will not be cost efficient directly. Thus the patch has no meaning at all, because blizzard tried to fix a problem that was not there.
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On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch.
To be fair he really only threw the 4th game. The third one, despite being a 6 pool, almost worked for him. Alive handled it very well.
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On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch.
How is it going to be a great showmatch if alive is just going to all-in every game? The first two games weren't entertaining and the rest weren't very likely to be either.
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On February 24 2012 09:37 MrCon wrote:
Wow, Idra still think coin flips exist, even tho he trained in Korea. Amazing.
Well, perhaps he knows there is no really such thing (at least that 11/11 is not a "coin flip", especially not versus him), but he hopes his remaining fans will pick that sentence and use it to defend him.
err, yes there they do exist. Otherwise, we would see the same all ins every single game that will never be crushed because they aren't coinflip builds. Arguably, 1/1/1 a few months ago wasn't a coinflip. Double reactor hellion is completely coinflip. 'If he does a massive roach push, I'm dead.' How coin flip is that? Heck, I can go triple cc before barracks, and you think that isn't relying on luck to win? Your argument is wrong on so many levels.
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On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch.
alive's play was not entertaining. idra's play was beyond ridiculous, and his six pools were unacceptable. better?
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idra 6 pooling twice was a far more entertaining show than most normal games. that said I can understand why his team/management might be annoyed with his antics.
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I just want to remind everyone that Jaedong actually did the same thing vs Flash in a starleague final, going double 4P.
Though it sounds like IdrA's motivation was a little more questionable. He did say he didn't think he would have much chance on the T favored maps, but at the same time he also said he was doing it to "get the match over".
Sounds like a little of both from IdrA. He didn't think he could win on terran favored maps vs alive, so he decided to allin because he has the best chance of that and just picked 6 pool because it would end it the quickest.
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On February 24 2012 09:32 Forikorder wrote:
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none
wow I don't even know what is the worst word to describe you. Nani got kicked out of CoL, got rejected his code S invite and you call it what??
IdrA didn't tired, he didn't lose anything, no one made a single thread with 500 pages to talk about him after that b/c it's IdrA, he's a douche anyway. Learn how to compare A and B plz.
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"I want to redeem myself, but if I don't, it's because imba."
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With that view on ZvP, he wont really have much to do against Oz really.
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
Have you ever seen a Korean interview where the Korean didn't say that he wanted to show good matches for the fans? I for one have not.
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I hope he does well, a win against someone as strong as Oz would be a big confidence boost for him that could carry him throughout the rest of the tournament.
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On February 24 2012 10:07 TBone- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... Have you ever seen a Korean interview where the Korean didn't say that he wanted to show good matches for the fans? I for one have not.
Saying you want to show good matches and then doing 2 allins in a showmatch doesn't really make sense..
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hmm he didn't think that going 60 drones with no sim city, fast upgrades, and 1 spine crawler for defense was risky and can be seen as an all-in? he's basically bet alive wouldn't put any pressure on in the first 10 minutes-this isn't FMP NR 20. his defense was pretty good too, sending drones to attack 10 hellions, sounds like a good idea.
oh yeah, and no gg? he has to admit alive handled the 3rd game very well. much better than idra dealt with alive's two rushes. i've seen idra do plenty of cheesy, all-in builds (and not just because he's raging). he really just needs to get over himself and stop making excuses for poor gameplay and decision-making.
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On February 24 2012 09:56 Dissonance23 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch. How is it going to be a great showmatch if alive is just going to all-in every game? The first two games weren't entertaining and the rest weren't very likely to be either.
It would have been great because aLive wouldn't ragequit the moment his cheese fails.
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On February 24 2012 10:08 -JoKeR- wrote:
I hope he does well, a win against someone as strong as Oz would be a big confidence boost for him that could carry him throughout the rest of the tournament.
But if he loses, he will pull the imba card like he always does. Unfortunately for him.
When Terran was crusing Protoss a few months ago, i remember Huk saying the match up was fine. He never tried to justify his losses on something else but his play. Even after MVP went for 2 all ins against him.
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On February 24 2012 10:11 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:56 Dissonance23 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch. How is it going to be a great showmatch if alive is just going to all-in every game? The first two games weren't entertaining and the rest weren't very likely to be either. It would have been great because aLive wouldn't ragequit the moment his cheese fails.
that doesnt make the game great or entertaining.....
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Everything in the game puts you ahead or behind.
If Z took a secret 3rd and you didn't catch it, or punish it, is that cheese? It certainly put Z ahead, and possibly in a position to snowball and fully control the game with higher muta count.
If Z tries to 2 base roach/bane aggression, like DRG vs Gumiho, it can kill the T. It can also do some damage, but the T holds, and they are even. Is that wrong? This is also unscoutable by the T until the moment the roaches move out. You can only prepare with subtle clues + understanding of the timing.
If you open 2rax or 2reactor hellion, it can put the Terran ahead. It can kill the Z outright too. But if the Z holds, it can also be an even game.
This is just typical Idra. EVERYTHING is a coinflip. How you can play this game for 10 years and not understand that, well I guess it's the same reason you are mediocre.
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To be honest i used to like watching idra play, now though.. i am just fed up with his essentially terrible view on the world. Its just a defeatist attitude that really REALLY doesn't belong in esports. You play to be the best not some guy who gives up every time he feels like he might not win.
This has been my view on him ever since his loss vs MMA. Since then he really hasn't gotten any better (talking mentality obviously and not mechanics / skill)
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As a toss I agree with everything Idra said concerning the toss patch change. That doesn't happen often.
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On February 24 2012 09:29 SonOfBoxer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... Korean mentality? Ever heard of BoxeR, who puts his fans before winning? NaDa, who's just as awesome? Flash? iloveoov? MMA? Those guys are too awesome because they want to show good matches WHILE winning, but for BoxeR who just wants to show good matches. Everybody knows IdrA is a whiner from the beginning, and since he couldn't simply ragequit, he decided to throw the games.
Yes, we know. Since aLive didn't seem to be interested in showing nice games IdrA knew he didn't have a chance so he flipped coins with the 6pools. That's not necessarily respectable in any way, but it doesn't deserve this kind of hate.
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Great interview, thanks a lot. I agree with what he said about ZvP for sure. I dunno what will happen to ZvT because of the ghost changes, but regardless it will remain a very fun matchup to play for me. ^_^
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Idra: I'm not even going to try to make good games
edit: i realize that he decided that after getting cheese 2 games, dont tell me
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
Because maps have to be entirely mined out for it to be a good game right? You idra fans are ridiculous.
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Clearly the solution is to have DRG and MMA play every show match.
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I remember a long time ago Artosis uploaded a game between Twilight(Oz) and IdrA. I think IdrA ended up winning but that was so so long ago that it definitely has no meaning to tomorrows match.
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lawl@the same fanboys from the 6 pool thread saying the same things again.
hoping he bombs out miserably this weekend
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I don´t know why Idra still complains about P being too strong against Zerg. Its been months with Z having the upperhand in the MU(and that was even before Mutas were used a lot).Hell, you can even argue that the P deathball has not been such a huge issue.Dunno it just feels P has not really been that strong in PvZ overall
I do agree with him in that Mech in TvZ is not being used that much.
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On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty.
reason why I love the guy, more players should be like that, instead of happy go lucky about everything. If you don't get mad you don't care
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I really liked his answers on balance, although it's somewhat funny that he was the one championing Ghosts as super strong but now that it's nerfed mech will emerge super strong. But it does make sense, 200/200 mech is hard enough to stop as Terran, let alone Zerg
As for IdrA, same old attitude, different day/country/game.
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Actually, Idra seemed really nice and level headed in that interview. Now sure if they changed his words at all, but it appears that he is feeling confident and ready to compete. I would love 2012 to be Idra's year.
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If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ?
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6 pooling is not cheese. Keep in mind that July six pools all the time. It is a viable strategy that really punishes your opponent for being greedy. You can very easily transition into late game from 6 pool as zerg.
What was sad was thew way Idra expressed it. He didn't do it as part of a 'strategy', he just basically gave up and said, "what the hell, let's just get this over with." It's that attitude that is lame.
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On February 24 2012 10:35 windsupernova wrote:
I don´t know why Idra still complains about P being too strong against Zerg. Its been months with Z having the upperhand in the MU(and that was even before Mutas were used a lot).Hell, you can even argue that the P deathball has not been such a huge issue.Dunno it just feels P has not really been that strong in PvZ overall
I do agree with him in that Mech in TvZ is not being used that much.
Its because hes historically struggled against protoss since the start of his sc2 career. In the beta days it was Tester, then we had cruncher, mc, huk, etc etc. Thats why he struggled against toss even when zerg was favored, its a mental block thing.
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On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote:
If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ?
yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch.
On February 24 2012 10:39 Coated wrote:
6 pooling is not cheese. Keep in mind that July six pools all the time. It is a viable strategy that really punishes your opponent for being greedy. You can very easily transition into late game from 6 pool as zerg.
What was sad was thew way Idra expressed it. He didn't do it as part of a 'strategy', he just basically gave up and said, "what the hell, let's just get this over with." It's that attitude that is lame.
6pooling is the epitome of cheese.
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On February 24 2012 10:41 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote:
If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ? yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch.
Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone.
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On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
Rofl, who doesn't want to win? Don't have like a racist mentality. I'm sure anyone else would also favor winning + good match over just losing.
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IdrA: The ghost change is too much in that it will force bio based play to revolve around mid game allins. If zerg gets to broodlord infestor on a good economy while you’re playing bio, you will lose if zerg executes properly. However this will, sooner or later, cause terrans to rediscover turtle mech play which is even stronger on most maps than ghost based play.
something i can agree with idra on...
2012 truly a new year.
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On February 24 2012 10:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:11 Oktyabr wrote:On February 24 2012 09:56 Dissonance23 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch. How is it going to be a great showmatch if alive is just going to all-in every game? The first two games weren't entertaining and the rest weren't very likely to be either. It would have been great because aLive wouldn't ragequit the moment his cheese fails. that doesnt make the game great or entertaining.....
I don't understand this excuse that "show matches are just supposed to be for entertainment", executing some specific strategies are more effective than other ones, and has nothing to do with how much entertainment value it may have for the audience or what type of audience would appreciate it. Would this thread be the same if alive was doing MMA style medivacs drops all over the place and doing marine splits against banelings? If your talking about long macro back and forth games being the most entertaining, the most likely scenario of that happening would be players doing an economic cheese build, which is also just as much of a coin flip. Isn't the whole point of a back and forth game based on the fact that each player can hold each other's attacks and strategies and try to stay in the game and try to come back and adapt after each attack or strategy is thwarted? Idra lost to common place opener strategies that he considered coin flips, Alive held a common place coin flip cheese from Idra, a moral high ground doesn't exist on either side in the way the matches were played out.
Player mentality during preparation, in public events, in interviews, and while competing has been and always will be a part of the professional sport or activity they are participating in; people are making the mistake of judging Idra's character as a person when the vast majority of us don't even know him personally, he's a public figure and his public persona while playing a video game isn't enough of a basis for irrational behavior and judgement on any side.
Idra is entirely entitled to keep doing exactly what he's doing with exactly the attitude he has, he just needs to deal with the predictable consequences of his actions. Some times it's beneficial to him and some times it's not beneficial to him. If he chooses to behave this way his fan base and following will be of a specific demographic, and if he chooses to behave differently it will be of a different demographic. Just as the time when he GG's out of a game has possible benefits and drawbacks on both sides.
We as an audience have wide arrays of tastes and what we consider entertaining, some of us prefer the subtle mind games and unorthodox builds and timings which often result in one sided, quick games; some of us prefer long, drawn out macro games where players are forced to multitask as best as they can; and some of us just prefer to see our favorite player win all the time, regardless of the method or format. Unjustified anger and lack of understanding between segments of our fellow SC2 fans is just silly.
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On February 24 2012 10:46 Gryffes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote:
If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ? yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch. Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone.
my feeling is that showmatches are not about winning, they are about putting on a show for fans, and i, as a fan, do not enjoy watching "cheese" and "all-in" strategies. i did not appreciate alive's first two games, and i was incensed at idra's last two games. it was the worst showmatch (start to finish) that i have ever seen. people may disagree and say that the money makes it okay, but i respectfully disagree with that.
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honestly don't even know why I clicked this thread. Untill idra actually shows some positive tourney results he might as well be a B teamer (maybe he technically is ?)
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On February 24 2012 10:50 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:11 Oktyabr wrote:On February 24 2012 09:56 Dissonance23 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch. How is it going to be a great showmatch if alive is just going to all-in every game? The first two games weren't entertaining and the rest weren't very likely to be either. It would have been great because aLive wouldn't ragequit the moment his cheese fails. that doesnt make the game great or entertaining..... I don't understand this excuse that "show matches are just supposed to be for entertainment",
Generally Show Matches are meant for show.
For entertainment.
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Didn't idra already say something like this on one of onemoregame.tv's stream?
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On February 24 2012 10:51 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:46 Gryffes wrote:On February 24 2012 10:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote:
If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ? yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch. Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone. my feeling is that showmatches are not about winning, they are about putting on a show for fans, and i, as a fan, do not enjoy watching "cheese" and "all-in" strategies. i did not appreciate alive's first two games, and i was incensed at idra's last two games. it was the worst showmatch (start to finish) that i have ever seen. people may disagree and say that the money makes it okay, but i respectfully disagree with that.
I personally disagree with you that show-matches are not about winning. Meta-game is fun too.
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On February 24 2012 10:57 zhenherald wrote:
honestly don't even know why I clicked this thread. Untill idra actually shows some positive tourney results he might as well be a B teamer (maybe he technically is ?)
So him winning IEM china a few months ago doesn't count? and him consistantly being the 2nd highest or highest ranking foreigner in MLG events doesn't count? I think you might want to go back and look over what kind of results foreign B teamers get, and then look at Idras results before you make a statement like that.
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On February 24 2012 11:00 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:50 Caihead wrote:
I don't understand this excuse that "show matches are just supposed to be for entertainment", Generally Show Matches are meant for show. For entertainment.
Like I said in my post though, different people have different definitions of what they consider entertaining. And what's entertaining to watch doesn't have a direct correlation with how effective it is. And show matches shouldn't JUST be for entertainment either, right? Teams and players often hold friendly or show matches in any sport, it's never assumed that they have to ONLY play a certain way for the audience. It factors in of course, but all of competitive sport is about balancing marketing, sportsmanship, and competitiveness. And players / athletes who are successful know how to have an effective show match. You can't use the argument that it's just for entertainment, first to criticize Alive's play where he "just tried to win", then to excuse Idra's play in response "because Alive wasn't entertaining" when they were both coin flip builds.
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On February 24 2012 11:07 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:51 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:46 Gryffes wrote:On February 24 2012 10:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote:
If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ? yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch. Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone. my feeling is that showmatches are not about winning, they are about putting on a show for fans, and i, as a fan, do not enjoy watching "cheese" and "all-in" strategies. i did not appreciate alive's first two games, and i was incensed at idra's last two games. it was the worst showmatch (start to finish) that i have ever seen. people may disagree and say that the money makes it okay, but i respectfully disagree with that. I personally disagree with you that show-matches are not about winning. Meta-game is fun too.
that is fine; that is your opinion. i have to say though, the most entertaining showmatch I have ever seen was when marineking off-raced as protoss and played a showmatch. that was entertainment, and it had very little to do with winning.
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On February 24 2012 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... reminds me of huk vs. nestea showmatch. where huk played seriously, and nestea was trying to show a good game. korean mentality and all..... =P
Nestea lost because he expanded to the gold. He was trying to get an early advantage. That isn't what you do when you're just trying to show a good game. What he wanted to do was toy with Huk.
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On February 24 2012 11:00 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 10:50 Caihead wrote:On February 24 2012 10:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:11 Oktyabr wrote:On February 24 2012 09:56 Dissonance23 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:52 -Trippin- wrote:On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other." Thinking like this is poisonous and very fanboy-esque. It doesn't matter if Alive was playing to win or not, Idra threw the matches and ruined what could have been an otherwise great showmatch. How is it going to be a great showmatch if alive is just going to all-in every game? The first two games weren't entertaining and the rest weren't very likely to be either. It would have been great because aLive wouldn't ragequit the moment his cheese fails. that doesnt make the game great or entertaining..... I don't understand this excuse that "show matches are just supposed to be for entertainment", Generally Show Matches are meant for show. For entertainment.
Which generally comes from people doing their utmost and playing to win.
If you want entertainment without competition go watch funday monday or something.....
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On February 24 2012 11:11 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 11:07 guN-viCe wrote:On February 24 2012 10:51 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:46 Gryffes wrote:On February 24 2012 10:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote:
If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ? yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch. Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone. my feeling is that showmatches are not about winning, they are about putting on a show for fans, and i, as a fan, do not enjoy watching "cheese" and "all-in" strategies. i did not appreciate alive's first two games, and i was incensed at idra's last two games. it was the worst showmatch (start to finish) that i have ever seen. people may disagree and say that the money makes it okay, but i respectfully disagree with that. I personally disagree with you that show-matches are not about winning. Meta-game is fun too. that is fine; that is your opinion. i have to say though, the most entertaining showmatch I have ever seen was when marineking off-raced as protoss and played a showmatch. that was entertainment, and it had very little to do with winning.
hmm I guess I kind of agree with this... if i want to see super serious games, I go for GSL, or MLG (or watch a replay)... if I want to see some kind of show, I like to see fun shit... like carriers or ravens and that stuff... imo I would rather watch anyone lose doing something wonky, than my favorite players 4-0 somebody by going 11-11
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On February 24 2012 09:40 docvoc wrote:
losing respect for idra day by day smh. Even though it was a showmatch that doesn't mean all-ins are taboo. Double 6 pooling however would be like if alive had gone for a completely blind 5 rax marine proxy all in. The point is that once again IdrA is being idra and i can't believe people respect him for that.
So aLive cheeses twice in a row it's fine but IdrA does it an holy shit the sky is falling?
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On February 24 2012 09:46 Tipany wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:25 pepsimaxibon wrote:On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... someone dig up the quote from idra about starcraft not being pro-wrestling and how gamers should be playing to win above all else. SHOWmatch, bro. SHOWMATCH.
okay. you enjoy two dudes on computers creating the most gnarly and epic space laser battles with their digital action figures, i'll watch two big names competing to win a game of starcraft.
showMATCH.
p.s passive aggressive "bro"s are a surefire sign of two things:
i you are uncomfortable making an argument without dropping in colloquial pseudo-endearment, a symptom of critical underdevelopment.
ii you have a small dick.
User was temp banned for this post.
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"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."
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On February 24 2012 09:29 SonOfBoxer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... Korean mentality? Ever heard of BoxeR, who puts his fans before winning? NaDa, who's just as awesome? Flash? iloveoov? MMA? Those guys are too awesome because they want to show good matches WHILE winning, but for BoxeR who just wants to show good matches. Everybody knows IdrA is a whiner from the beginning, and since he couldn't simply ragequit, he decided to throw the games.
Flash plays some of the most boring games I've ever watched. The only reason they're interesting is because of how amazingly solid he is at pretty much everything. But I don't get giddy to see Flash play 99% of players, only pretty much TBLS games.
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he really hates protoss
he thinks terran mech is unbeatable
he actually thinks phoenix +2 range will be viable in pro league? what a joke...
I don't know what to take away from this, one moment he is confident the other he QQs
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On February 24 2012 11:22 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:29 SonOfBoxer wrote:On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... Korean mentality? Ever heard of BoxeR, who puts his fans before winning? NaDa, who's just as awesome? Flash? iloveoov? MMA? Those guys are too awesome because they want to show good matches WHILE winning, but for BoxeR who just wants to show good matches. Everybody knows IdrA is a whiner from the beginning, and since he couldn't simply ragequit, he decided to throw the games. Flash plays some of the most boring games I've ever watched. The only reason they're interesting is because of how amazingly solid he is at pretty much everything. But I don't get giddy to see Flash play 99% of players, only pretty much TBLS games.
I think its more Koreaners murder foreigners out of Koreaner pride stereotype. Lets not forget that he made Tossgirl cry :p
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Respect him for his honesty. Don't respect him for being stubborn and saying 11/11 and 2 fact hellion are 'coin flip'. He failed in both scouting and defense micro. That's not a coin flip. That's his own failure in play.
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On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool.
If everyone had this mentality, what's the point of holding showmatches then?
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I definitely respect his honesty, and I like his straightforward answers.
I really hope he kicks ass and doesn't have any mental breakdowns (e.g. premature ggs) this year.
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On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other."
funny that every coinflip goes against idra.
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On February 24 2012 11:45 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. If everyone had this mentality, what's the point of holding showmatches then?
so fan boys on both sides can brag/complain about the results of the match
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On February 24 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I definitely respect his honesty, and I like his straightforward answers.
I really hope he kicks ass and doesn't have any mental breakdowns (e.g. premature ggs) this year.
kinda late for that.
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why would idra 6pool ... so ridiculous
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Gotta love IdrA interviews.
Im glad he feels he's improved and isn't getting too discouraged by his recent losses. It'll be great if he lives up to his word and plays well in these upcoming tournaments. I wanna see IdrA owning again.
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On February 24 2012 11:56 pepsimaxibon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I definitely respect his honesty, and I like his straightforward answers.
I really hope he kicks ass and doesn't have any mental breakdowns (e.g. premature ggs) this year. kinda late for that.
He probably means in actual lan tournaments. Online show matches is one thing, but a live tournament he might not
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On February 24 2012 11:57 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 11:56 pepsimaxibon wrote:On February 24 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I definitely respect his honesty, and I like his straightforward answers.
I really hope he kicks ass and doesn't have any mental breakdowns (e.g. premature ggs) this year. kinda late for that. He probably means in actual lan tournaments. Online show matches is one thing, but a live tournament he might not
Indeed that is what I meant.
I'll be at MLG Columbus again. Hahahaha.
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Never thought I'd think this, but I don't blame IdrA.
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I'm pretty sure it was cast from replays, so it is likely that they asked him to play only a few hours beforehand. After he agreed, they announced the showmatch.
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On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other."
Very true. Doesn't justify the back-to-back 6pool, but it's a good point.
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I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad.
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On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad.
You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series.
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On February 24 2012 12:29 Enhancer_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad. You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series.
Diffrence is the cheese Alive used has chance to win against someone who is not braindead.
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On February 24 2012 12:32 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:29 Enhancer_ wrote:On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad. You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series. Diffrence is the cheese Alive used has chance to win against someone who is not braindead.
and a double reactor hellion build is much much less cheesy then a 6pool
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On February 24 2012 12:33 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:32 Hypemeup wrote:On February 24 2012 12:29 Enhancer_ wrote:On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad. You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series. Diffrence is the cheese Alive used has chance to win against someone who is not braindead. and a double reactor hellion build is much much less cheesy then a 6pool
Not at all, but it is not a autoloss. Cant recall the last time I saw a 6pool work in a progame. Closest I can remember is IdrA vs Jinro.
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On February 24 2012 12:32 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:29 Enhancer_ wrote:On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad. You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series. Diffrence is the cheese Alive used has chance to win against someone who is not braindead.
I never really said anything about the viability of the builds, but that's nice I suppose?
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On February 24 2012 12:36 Enhancer_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:32 Hypemeup wrote:On February 24 2012 12:29 Enhancer_ wrote:On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad. You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series. Diffrence is the cheese Alive used has chance to win against someone who is not braindead. I never really said anything about the viability of the builds, but that's nice I suppose?
Missing my point, Alive was playing to win, IdrA threw the games in a obvious way and that is what I have a problem with as a fan.
This is just beating a dead horse anyways.
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Again with the complaints by IdrA. But I don't blame him. Some maps are more favored towards some races and he was just asked to do this random match only with a few hours notice.
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honestly who cares that he cheesed, its his decision to make and he was very open and honest in the interview. He lives a tougher life than people realize, cut him some slack
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What a weak spirit he shows.Giving up so easily.
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On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does?
Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match.
He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games.
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On February 24 2012 09:58 L_Master wrote:
I just want to remind everyone that Jaedong actually did the same thing vs Flash in a starleague final, going double 4P.
Though it sounds like IdrA's motivation was a little more questionable. He did say he didn't think he would have much chance on the T favored maps, but at the same time he also said he was doing it to "get the match over".
Sounds like a little of both from IdrA. He didn't think he could win on terran favored maps vs alive, so he decided to allin because he has the best chance of that and just picked 6 pool because it would end it the quickest.
You do know that Flash was a greedy player right? Flash would usually blind cc b4 barrick. Thats why Jaedong 4 pool, even he know Flash was a greedy player.
People say it was just a show match. Remember the Global GSL, where Korea didnt take the foreigners seriously and the foreigners looked like they were on par with korea? Remember Nestea was the only person that took the show match seriously. Thats the mindset of a winner..............something which Idra needs.
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On February 24 2012 12:29 Enhancer_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:24 Hypemeup wrote:
I find the most amusing part about IdrA to be some of his fans. ("DAMN HIM FOR PLAYING TO WIN!" what?)
Also Sixpooling twice because the games did not matter because it was a showmatch is horseshit. Why cant he just do something off the rails instead to give the fans a good show, something like Boxer has done in the past. But nay, its not like the matchs only purpose was to put on a show to give fans some content, it does not matter, right?
Sigh. Tough times to be a fan of IdrA.
Edit: Oh and as a terran player PvZ is the most boring matchup ever even from a clueless perspective. ZvZ and PvP at least have some moments of hardcore micro. I really aggre with him that the MU is bad. You say this as if a proxy 2rax and a double reactor Hellion build was fun to watch and IdrA was the only one playing a poor showmatch series.
They were certainly more fun to watch then two 6 pools in a row. And plus, if Idra hadn't played so awfully in those first two games, we could have had a decent series.
I'm not going to fault Alive for doing an opener and then killing Idra with it when he sees Idra botch him build.
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Great interview, thanks for the time and effort put into doing these!
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i like idra, but i wonder how many years he's going to complain about "coin flips". maybe he should take a page out of genius' book and just focus on playing really solid, that seemed to work against aLive.
oh wait, that won't work because zerg can't beat terran. never mind.
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well thats typical for idra no suprise on his mind set. But good that he says he is improving and benefits from training with slayers. But that also means as long as he is in korea, we won't see alot of him as he is one of the players that doesn't like cross server.
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A lot of people here seem to think that a good game is a long game. And I completely disagree with that kind of superficial thinking.
To me, a good game is when you see the heart of a fighter. When you can see how hard someone works for the win. This can mean a long game, especially if players are deadlocked due to being equally matched. This can mean a short game because a player is mindgaming to get an advantage. But nevertheless, the game will be scrappy - long or short.
Trying to do everything you can to win (except cheating) and to claw back victory from the jaws of defeat - those are the most inspiring matches to watch.
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How can Idra even call it "coin flips" and blame it on luck? and not on his own lack of skill? Why should aLive purposefully try to play "entertaining" games in a competitive enviorment. Long macro games are not the only games worth watching. Defending and excuting all-ins are very hard to do and create exciting, tense games. If Idra wants to win he needs to practice whatever cheeses and allins players throw at you, not GG without even trying to put up a fight.
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TvZ is just so much more fun to watch then any other match up IMO.
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"The ghost change is too much in that it will force bio based play to revolve around mid game allins. If zerg gets to broodlord infestor on a good economy while you’re playing bio, you will lose if zerg executes properly. However this will, sooner or later, cause terrans to rediscover turtle mech play which is even stronger on most maps than ghost based play."
Wow you know a patch is bad when IdrA thinks nerfing Terran is extreme.
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On February 24 2012 13:27 Gamegene wrote:
"The ghost change is too much in that it will force bio based play to revolve around mid game allins. If zerg gets to broodlord infestor on a good economy while you’re playing bio, you will lose if zerg executes properly. However this will, sooner or later, cause terrans to rediscover turtle mech play which is even stronger on most maps than ghost based play."
Wow you know a patch is bad when IdrA thinks nerfing Terran is extreme.
But he can't quite bring himself to go all the way with it and has to add that this nerf will force terrans to discover their other, more OP strategies and in the end it will be proven once and for all that zerg is underpowered and IdrA is actually one of the best players in the world and he'd be a contender for GSL champion every season with a different race.
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Wow, even Idra thinks the ghost nerf was too much. Also, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of attention given this issue. No wonder terran keeps getting nerfed every patch. No one cares.
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On February 24 2012 13:30 The KY wrote:
But he can't quite bring himself to go all the way with it and has to add that this nerf will force terrans to discover their other, more OP strategies and in the end it will be proven once and for all that zerg is underpowered and IdrA is actually one of the best players in the world and he'd be a contender for GSL champion every season with a different race.
I can't tell if you're trolling me or if you're serious. Either way 10/10.
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I can believe that they played the showmatch beforehand then cast them a couple days later.
I don't get this whole mentality he has tho. Its the thing that keeps him from doing good.
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On February 24 2012 13:41 Jisall wrote:
I can believe that they played the showmatch beforehand then cast them a couple days later.
I don't get this whole mentality he has tho. Its the thing that keeps him from doing good.
Yeah man, having an entire online community expect you to win every single tournament and ridicule you for losing games vs good players, not to mention having to compete against the best starcraft players (Koreans) for a living.
Pfffft. It's so simple: he should just get over it!
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good old idra will he ever be happy with the balence of the game.... he has been crying about ghost forever you give them a huge nerf and he shrugs it off has so what mech is still op.
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On February 24 2012 13:51 IamPryda wrote:
good old idra will he ever be happy with the balence of the game.... he has been crying about ghost forever you give them a huge nerf and he shrugs it off has so what mech is still op.
"However this will, sooner or later, cause terrans to rediscover turtle mech play which is even stronger on most maps than ghost based play."
Mech is stronger than ghost based play on most maps != Mech OP.
You couldn't have possibly derived that conclusion from this interview. Except you did, somehow.
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On February 24 2012 13:36 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 13:30 The KY wrote:
But he can't quite bring himself to go all the way with it and has to add that this nerf will force terrans to discover their other, more OP strategies and in the end it will be proven once and for all that zerg is underpowered and IdrA is actually one of the best players in the world and he'd be a contender for GSL champion every season with a different race. I can't tell if you're trolling me or if you're serious. Either way 10/10.
Oh man no way am I serious :D I just like to remember a time in the youth of SC2 when IdrA pretty clearly considered himself head and shoulders above every foreigner and everyone still agreed with him that zerg was UP. And now zerg is fine and we all know it, but he's still not winning everything so he just clings, desperately clings, to that little bit left in his brain that still tells him that it's just because he plays the weakest race.
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On February 24 2012 11:22 emc wrote:
he actually thinks phoenix +2 range will be viable in pro league? what a joke...
I think you completely misunderstood what IdrA was saying. IdrA was saying that Mutalisks are a mid-game threat to Protoss and the new Phoenix upgrade is not available in the mid-game so the patch does not affect this in any way. So the only thing thing that this new Phoenix upgrades serves to do is make the Protoss late-game army stronger, which I assume IdrA belives doesn't need to be done.
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On February 24 2012 13:30 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 13:27 Gamegene wrote:
"The ghost change is too much in that it will force bio based play to revolve around mid game allins. If zerg gets to broodlord infestor on a good economy while you’re playing bio, you will lose if zerg executes properly. However this will, sooner or later, cause terrans to rediscover turtle mech play which is even stronger on most maps than ghost based play."
Wow you know a patch is bad when IdrA thinks nerfing Terran is extreme. But he can't quite bring himself to go all the way with it and has to add that this nerf will force terrans to discover their other, more OP strategies and in the end it will be proven once and for all that zerg is underpowered and IdrA is actually one of the best players in the world and he'd be a contender for GSL champion every season with a different race.
I do agree that there seems to be some balance whine subtext there, but you gotta give the man credit where credit is due. He was championing the Ghost in late-game TvZ long before any of the Terrans were using it. So if IdrA says that turtle mech is going to be strong in TvZ, I wouldn't be suprised if he's right.
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About the Showmatch:
All 4 games sucked imo. I was very disappointed as a fan of my favourite matchup and of IdrA's. Buuuut what can you do?
Pretty much everybody agrees with what IdrA said regarding the patch, though. And a lot of people seem to agree with his assessment of the ZvP matchup as well.
This was a really good interview, with really good questions and answers imo. I'm happy.
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The phoenix thing is pretty true. Holding on to mutas for too long is definitely not what you want to do as zerg, they're a tool allowing you to get ahead in economy while zoning the toss in mid game.
Lategame is, I guess, where most of the issues lie among these matchups. Either you have vortex and manage a good archons toilet and broodfestor is fucked or you don't and zerg has an advantage. Same can be said for terran with ghosts - either sniper is really powerful, or not enough. Of course it isn't as simple as I'm putting it, but if the game is totally even, the dynamic of the lategame army clash seems pretty one dimensional.
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On February 24 2012 09:37 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:32 Forikorder wrote:
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none Naniwa received a way bigger backlash. Stephano arguably received an equivalent backlash, you just don't hear about it as much as anything IdrA related, generally. There's no double standard.
That itself is a double standard
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Well he has a point. It was a showmatch and then aLive doing dumb all-in after all-in ruined it already.
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Alive did not cheese Idra, and it was not even a full allin. Idra was just pissed and decided to be disrespectful to the fans. Sad to see such attitude tbh.
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Who cares about the ALive - showmatch thing, Idra! just said
The ghost change is too much in that it will force bio based play to revolve around mid game allins. If zerg gets to broodlord infestor on a good economy while you’re playing bio, you will lose if zerg executes properly.
Thats the final confimation that these terran nerf is just silly! Its like the pope comes to town and says "well maybe the devil is a nicer guy then i thought". Thats awesome!
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aLive does 11/11 bunker rush first game, double reactor second game - nobody gives a fuck
IdrA decides that if aLive is gonna do coinflip builds in the showmatch he might aswell fuck it, clearly aLive wasn't very caring of the viewers, thus IdrA couldn't be arsed to do so neither so he decided to coinflip aswell. TeamLiquid goes rampant about it.... standard lol.
Also, what IdrA says about his recent results is very true, just because he's not winning everything doesn't mean he's suddenly bad, that's ridicolous. Is ThorZaIN bad too now because he hasn't won anything notable since TSL3?
On February 24 2012 11:22 emc wrote:
he really hates protoss
he thinks terran mech is unbeatable
he actually thinks phoenix +2 range will be viable in pro league? what a joke...
I don't know what to take away from this, one moment he is confident the other he QQs
If this is all you got from this interview then you must've been dropped as a child...
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I think idra sounded more mentally balanced in this interview then usual. Might just be me though, but he does have a point about playing to win and agression.
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On February 24 2012 09:28 Drium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... I don't even...
I'm hoping he was trolling... if not....
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Lol, he dont have a chance do win mlg winter arena too, so why the hell he's going there?
If you wanna use the same argument ...
Edit: Now i get it, he ll 6 pool everygame.
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On February 24 2012 09:40 architecture wrote:
It is more than possible to survive Alive's builds, and take a minimal amount of damage.
The only coinflip part is when Idra failed to react and prepare properly and died straightout.
Typical Idra - blame the opponent when he fails.
Thought everyone knew by now, it's not him it's the "build, game, abuse etc...."
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On February 24 2012 09:13 ShiroKaisen wrote:
IdrA: He cheesed me successfully on two of the better zerg maps in the pool and it was just a showmatch I was asked to play a few hours beforehand. Alive is an excellent player and hes willing to take risks, a player like that is very hard to beat and given the map pool I didn’t think I had a realistic chance of coming back from down 0-2. The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other.
I don't feel like this is a healthy attitude. Shouldn't a player always try to win? I think Idra is obviously talented but thinking like this mires him in the "good for a foreigner" category. Blessed with talent, drive, dedication and a bad attitude.
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On February 24 2012 16:45 sereniity wrote:
aLive does 11/11 bunker rush first game, double reactor second game - nobody gives a fuck
IdrA decides that if aLive is gonna do coinflip builds in the showmatch he might aswell fuck it, clearly aLive wasn't very caring of the viewers, thus IdrA couldn't be arsed to do so neither so he decided to coinflip aswell. TeamLiquid goes rampant about it.... standard lol.
Also, what IdrA says about his recent results is very true, just because he's not winning everything doesn't mean he's suddenly bad, that's ridicolous. Is ThorZaIN bad too now because he hasn't won anything notable since TSL3?
Alot of games start of with a 11/11 rush and continues to be a great game, problem is idra just dies to it most of his broadcasted games and leaves early with a gg. I have seen games from losira/leenock and others who have had their hatch die to 11/11 claw their way back into making a actual game that was very entertaining. Problem is idra just gg's so early and combined with the fact his early defence of thoes 2 builds in the game were so horrible you end up with these games as a result. I hate these showmatches should be fun and all, because if idra cant defend any early game pressure, then it ends up in artificial no rush 10 min?
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On February 24 2012 16:45 sereniity wrote:aLive does 11/11 bunker rush first game, double reactor second game - nobody gives a fuck IdrA decides that if aLive is gonna do coinflip builds in the showmatch he might aswell fuck it, clearly aLive wasn't very caring of the viewers, thus IdrA couldn't be arsed to do so neither so he decided to coinflip aswell. TeamLiquid goes rampant about it.... standard lol. Also, what IdrA says about his recent results is very true, just because he's not winning everything doesn't mean he's suddenly bad, that's ridicolous. Is ThorZaIN bad too now because he hasn't won anything notable since TSL3? Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 11:22 emc wrote:
he really hates protoss
he thinks terran mech is unbeatable
he actually thinks phoenix +2 range will be viable in pro league? what a joke...
I don't know what to take away from this, one moment he is confident the other he QQs
If this is all you got from this interview then you must've been dropped as a child...
Alive didn't counflip, he just won.
Idra didn't coinflip, he chose a losing strategy. Isn't this the time where he went 6pool, ALive made his rax in his natural, didn't wall off, and the 6 pool still didn't win? Or was that a different series.
And Idra isn't suddenly bad, he's just not really any better or more developed than he was a year ago, everyone else has developed a lot though. Idra seems to play like it's early 2011 still most of the time, which means he's bad. He hasn't got any worse, everyone else just moved on.
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Interesting take on things as always by IdrA. I always enjoy reading his opinion on the balance of things.
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IdrA: He cheesed me successfully on two of the better zerg maps in the pool and it was just a showmatch I was asked to play a few hours beforehand. Alive is an excellent player and hes willing to take risks, a player like that is very hard to beat and given the map pool I didn’t think I had a realistic chance of coming back from down 0-2. The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other.
He does all the right moves - analyze his game, praise his opponent, try a rational analysis of the series - but he still hasn't understood the core of the problem: that he's lacking genuine respect for anyone or anything besides himself.
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On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
"The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other."
He was payed to play dude  If I was offered money to play starcraft I'd at least do something slightly more entertaining/more likely to win
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On February 24 2012 16:45 sereniity wrote:
aLive does 11/11 bunker rush first game, double reactor second game - nobody gives a fuck
IdrA decides that if aLive is gonna do coinflip builds in the showmatch he might aswell fuck it, clearly aLive wasn't very caring of the viewers, thus IdrA couldn't be arsed to do so neither so he decided to coinflip aswell. TeamLiquid goes rampant about it.... standard lol.
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Except the way IdrA phrases things, it sounds like he went into it 6-pooling expecting to lose. I bet you aLive didn't 2rax or double reactor with the expectation to lose. If IdrA really thought 6-pooling was his most likely chance of getting back into the series he would have said that - instead he said he picked builds that would most likely end the series quicker by him losing. Despite IdrA's skill, he's still got a loser's attitude.
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On February 24 2012 17:37 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +IdrA: He cheesed me successfully on two of the better zerg maps in the pool and it was just a showmatch I was asked to play a few hours beforehand. Alive is an excellent player and hes willing to take risks, a player like that is very hard to beat and given the map pool I didn’t think I had a realistic chance of coming back from down 0-2. The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other. He does all the right moves - analyze his game, praise his opponent, try a rational analysis of the series - but he still hasn't understood the core of the problem: that he's lacking genuine respect for anyone or anything besides himself.
How is that not genuine respect? That is as respectful as you can get, basically saying: "If alive plays as good as I expect him too, I won't have much of a chance winning." If anything, IdrA has too much respect for his opponents play and never thinks they will make any mistakes.
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On February 24 2012 16:57 Flowjo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:28 Drium wrote:On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... I don't even... I'm hoping he was trolling... if not....
Traditionally Korean are more aware of the importance of showcasing good matches, Idra felt aLive didn't and he answered as he saw fit. Nothing to see here, move along.
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On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten.
Alive started the cheesing, he just ended it with cheesing. If anything Alive is at fault for showing Idra he didn't care about the showmatch and that good games weren't going to be shown so he decided to not waste his time.
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idra def has some cowardly and fraudulent tendencies
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I 100% agree with Idra's take on ZvP, note that he doesnt complain about balance in this post just points out how stupidly or boring the matchup works most of the time.
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On February 24 2012 18:10 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. Alive started the cheesing, he just ended it with cheesing. If anything Alive is at fault for showing Idra he didn't care about the showmatch and that good games weren't going to be shown so he decided to not waste his time.
"It's aLive's fault for upsetting IdrA's fragile mental balance and making him tilt, IdrA himself is not to blame." Can't people be responsible for their own actions anymore?
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Not surprised to see idra moaning about balance regarding his race again.
People blaming alive for the show match crap are wastes. IdrA got annoyed because he was being beaten by AGE old plays, so threw the next two games.
Based on watching his stream and recent games, i think hell do semi decent (might win a few games) at MLG but has less than 1% chance of winning the event or making top8. Id love him to prove me wrong as any tourny where he does well is better for it. Hes a quality bloke.
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The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game?
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On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game?
Dropping knowledge. Double this mans scran.
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On February 24 2012 18:20 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:10 Zooper31 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. Alive started the cheesing, he just ended it with cheesing. If anything Alive is at fault for showing Idra he didn't care about the showmatch and that good games weren't going to be shown so he decided to not waste his time. "It's aLive's fault for upsetting IdrA's fragile mental balance and making him tilt, IdrA himself is not to blame." Can't people be responsible for their own actions anymore?
I didn't acuse Idra of tilting. He was totally willing to go into this game to show good matches and entertain fans since it's a showmatch. 2 games in and Alive is going balls to the wall all-ins and shows he gives a fuck about entertaining anyone at long as he wins. Idra's like, ok bro lets play that game and proceeds to cheese right back. What is wrong with that? I can prob gurantee if Alive won both those games by playing normal than Idra wouldn't have cheesed the way he did because at least the games were entertaining and lasted longer than 5min.
Amazing no one hates on Alive for cheesing twice in a row but they all hate on Idra for doing it.
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On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game?
I salute you sir.
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I think he needs to shake the mentality of "if I fall behind, then loss." Watching the VOD of + Show Spoiler +EG vs. Liquid (do I need to spoiler something that's featured on the news page?), Idra fell behind pretty quickly on some poor ling management. He was obviously pretty far behind but like...
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On February 24 2012 18:36 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:20 Grumbels wrote:On February 24 2012 18:10 Zooper31 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. Alive started the cheesing, he just ended it with cheesing. If anything Alive is at fault for showing Idra he didn't care about the showmatch and that good games weren't going to be shown so he decided to not waste his time. "It's aLive's fault for upsetting IdrA's fragile mental balance and making him tilt, IdrA himself is not to blame." Can't people be responsible for their own actions anymore? I didn't acuse Idra of tilting. He was totally willing to go into this game to show good matches and entertain fans since it's a showmatch. 2 games in and Alive is going balls to the wall all-ins and shows he gives a fuck about entertaining anyone at long as he wins. Idra's like, ok bro lets play that game and proceeds to cheese right back. What is wrong with that? I can prob gurantee if Alive won both those games by playing normal than Idra wouldn't have cheesed the way he did because at least the games were entertaining and lasted longer than 5min. Amazing no one hates on Alive for cheesing twice in a row but they all hate on Idra for doing it.
Are you totally out of touch? Alive's cheeses were legitimately decent strats, capable of winning games or at least doing enough damage to allow the game to go forward should it be killed. Idra ditn cheese, idra just threw the games.
I wasnt overly bothered about him throwing the games, show matches are mostly dull affairs anyway (personal opinion). But folk on here trying to lay some blame on alive are bugging me lol.
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On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games.
yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment.
if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset.
seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff.
no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care.
that's fun for a very short time.
who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ?
if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part.
to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it.
the more serious, the better the show.
that's why there was prize money in it.
and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him.
but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down.
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On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game?
Alive called heads twice and it landed both times, Idra called tails the next two times and it continued to land on heads, simple as that. Builds like double reactor hellion and 6 pool are coin flip builds. You either win or you don't. I don't really recall the last time Idra has said Terran is OP in the past couple months either.
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On February 24 2012 18:39 Jarree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game? I salute you sir.
Seconded, those are exactly my thoughts. Funny how IdrA believes executing cheese versus him equals flipping a coin. History has proven time and time again it's a viable strategy when used against him. And I don't like how he calls a $400 match "just a showmatch", seems somewhat disrespectful towards organizer and sponsors. Sad part is he does draw a lot of viewers so he can get away with crap like this
On February 24 2012 18:46 Phobbers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game? Alive called heads twice and it landed both times, Idra called tails the next two times and it continued to land on heads, simple as that. Builds like double reactor hellion and 6 pool are coin flip builds. You either win or you don't. I don't really recall the last time Idra has said Terran is OP in the past couple months either.
Get real. You cannot compare 6 pool to a 2 base mass Hellion build. 6 pool isn't a coinflip, it's throwing a game away.
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On February 24 2012 18:46 Phobbers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game? Alive called heads twice and it landed both times, Idra called tails the next two times and it continued to land on heads, simple as that. Builds like double reactor hellion and 6 pool are coin flip builds. You either win or you don't. I don't really recall the last time Idra has said Terran is OP in the past couple months either.
Yeah he hasn't lol. I rarely see zergs (pro zergs) say terran is imbalanced just protoss lately (drg/nestea/idra not just idra).
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Ahhhhh the old coin flip excuse. I was wondering which "Idra excuse" would come up in this interview. Thanks.
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On February 24 2012 18:46 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:39 Jarree wrote:On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game? I salute you sir. Seconded, those are exactly my thoughts. Funny how IdrA believes executing cheese versus him equals flipping a coin. History has proven time and time again it's a viable strategy when used against him. And I don't like how he calls a $400 match "just a showmatch", seems somewhat disrespectful towards organizer and sponsors. Sad part is he does draw a lot of viewers so he can get away with crap like this Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:46 Phobbers wrote:On February 24 2012 18:23 nokz88 wrote:
The amount of people in this thread blaming Alive of all people for doing nothing but winning, is highly alarming.
There are two things that a pro-gamer should take into account:
1. FOLLOW THE RULES of the game (e.g. no cheating) and the tournament (e.g. no BM, throw matches)
2. WIN, using every tool available to you
...aside from those, there is no goddamn "right way" to play for fucks sake.
If you don't like cheese, it's up to you to stop it.
If you don't like allins, it's up to you to stop it.
If you like macro games, it's up to you to take the game to that point.
If Idra thinks these are coin flips, they sure look like rigged ones to me. How come the coin never flips in his favor? It's not like it was a best of 1, 3 or even 5.... it was a goddamn best of 7, which he lost 4 to zero. If I had half the luck Alive supposedly had I would be in Vegas right now shitting money.
Terran is OP, Protoss is OP, ZvZ is a coinflip, cheese is bad, allin is no skill. So in order to Idra accept defeat the opponent must pick a race that isn't Terran, Protoss or Zerg, NR15mins and expand every 5 minutes until there are no bases available.
What will it take for this guy to man it up and admit there is something seriously amiss with the way he views the game? Alive called heads twice and it landed both times, Idra called tails the next two times and it continued to land on heads, simple as that. Builds like double reactor hellion and 6 pool are coin flip builds. You either win or you don't. I don't really recall the last time Idra has said Terran is OP in the past couple months either. Get real. You cannot compare 6 pool to a 2 base mass Hellion build. 6 pool isn't a coinflip, it's throwing a game away.
Better tell that to FXOLucky then. He is pretty good at making 6 pool look like a decent strat when he beats people like MMA 2-0 with it. Get real.
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On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down.
Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose.
If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans.
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On February 24 2012 18:46 Phobbers wrote:
Alive called heads twice and it landed both times, Idra called tails the next two times and it continued to land on heads, simple as that. Builds like double reactor hellion and 6 pool are coin flip builds. You either win or you don't. I don't really recall the last time Idra has said Terran is OP in the past couple months either.
People like you who compare 2 base Reactor hellion to 6 pool serve as a constant reminder that there are still plenty of people on this forum who have absolutely no clue about Starcraft.
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On February 24 2012 18:53 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:46 Phobbers wrote:
Alive called heads twice and it landed both times, Idra called tails the next two times and it continued to land on heads, simple as that. Builds like double reactor hellion and 6 pool are coin flip builds. You either win or you don't. I don't really recall the last time Idra has said Terran is OP in the past couple months either. People like you who compare 2 base Reactor hellion to 6 pool serve as a constant reminder that there are still plenty of people on this forum who have absolutely no clue about Starcraft.
Yeah I don't know anything about Starcraft, never really played it. I know a tad bit about Starcraft 2 though.
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Wouldn't say that that was a good enough of an excuse, it was still just a showmatch
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On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans.
So, in short, you want to see NR15 matches? My idea of entertainment is kinda like MMA vs DongRaeGu Blizzard Cup finals, where well executed rush games keep things on suspense, and macro games are created not by a goddamn agreement, but by incredible ability from both parties to hold aggressive play.
Lemme correct that statement you made
If you're going to lose 4 games in a row, 2 by failing to stop an allin and 2 by failing your own cheese, then you clearly don't have the ability to entertain the fans.
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On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans.
then those fans clearly don't understand the game.
cheesing is part of it, and it is super important it's in it.
and you basically have 2 options:
- a game where both people play with every legal option they got to win because they want to win
- a game where both people don't really care
u really think the second one is more entertaining ?
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On February 24 2012 19:07 kinglemon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans. then those fans clearly don't understand the game. cheesing is part of it, and it is super important it's in it. and you basically have 2 options: - a game where both people play with every legal option they got to win because they want to win - a game where both people don't really care u really think the second one is more entertaining ?
The irony is amazing because the only reason Idra 6pooled is because he didn't really care.
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Dear god this thread is incredibly full of stupid.
Alive is an excellent player and hes willing to take risks, a player like that is very hard to beat and given the map pool I didn’t think I had a realistic chance of coming back from down 0-2. The games weren’t gonna be entertaining if he just wanted to flip coins anyway, so I just 6 pooled to get it over, one way or the other.
DongRaeGu would like to have a word with you, IdrA.
On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 09:17 Devolved wrote:
So in other words, he threw the games because he was behind in the series and didn't think he could come back. And besides, it was just a showmatch so who cares anyway. Stay classy, Idra. No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ...
You are implying that playing to win is a bad mentality for show matches. What? You are saying, in essence, that Starcraft 2 is not a fun game to watch if both players play to win. Do you realize how little sense that makes?
On February 24 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:
i agree with idra. alive's play was just not entertaining.
Watching succesfull, well executed all-ins can be VERY entertaining. Watching IdrA die a horrible death because he is NOT PLAYING WELL isn't entertaining, but thats IdrAs fault, not aLives. Watching six-pools also isnt entertaining, because six-pooling simply put almost never works, whereas good cheese can work quite well. Like naniwas proberush, sixpooling works only if your opponent is completely brain-dead. Not entertaining. Learn the difference between entertaining cheese and stupid "I just want to get over with it"-cheese.
In all fairness, aLive cheesed him twice which isn't much more entertaining than two sixpools. I'm not saying IdrA should have done it, we shouldn't condemn him for it.
Boxer would like to have a word with you.
Cheese can be entertaining. sixpools not so much.
Well I think the point he was making was that ALive decided to Cheese Games 1 and 2. He put winning the series above showing good games aka Not cheesing both games.
Again, what the hell? If Starcraft 2 would only provide entertainment when the players WEREN'T trying to win at all costs, what kind of shitty game would Starcraft 2 be? Why the hell would you be watching it?
Naniwa probe rushs: oh well game didnt amtter anyway and he was tired
Stephano forfiets: well it was late he was tired
IdrA 6 pools: WTF how can people do this? IdrA is so terrible GRRRRRRR
Naniwas proberush was the most commentated thing for over a week. People like Alex Garfield wrote good and detailed posts about why the proberush was wrong. Don't twist the facts to make IdrA look good. IdrA receives FAR less flak for his shitty behaviour than either Stephano or Naniwa do. Naniwa was revoked his chance to play in Code S for christs sake! History revisionism at its best.
love the double standard, it was a showmatch that didnt matter wheres the entertainment in watching alive all-in every game? none
The entertainment would be there if IdrA WOULD LEARN TO DEFEND CHEESE.
It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool.
WRONG.
That's not how e-sports work, kiddo. It is IdrAs job to win tournaments because the tournaments give him money. These tournaments make money by having paying customers. These paying customers (thats us, genius) want to be entertained, or they (we) won't dish out money for the tournament. In other words, IT IS IDRAS JOB TO ENTERTAIN ME.
Stop making shitty excuses for IdrAs shitty behavior. Its shameful.
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Short and sweet interview. Idra brings forth some good points about the ZvP match up. I'm just really glad to hear that he thinks that things have gone over the top lately, its the internet, people will always overreact :>
GL with MLG
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On February 24 2012 19:03 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans. So, in short, you want to see NR15 matches? My idea of entertainment is kinda like MMA vs DongRaeGu Blizzard Cup finals, where well executed rush games keep things on suspense, and macro games are created not by a goddamn agreement, but by incredible ability from both parties to hold aggressive play. Lemme correct that statement you made If you're going to lose 4 games in a row, 2 by failing to stop an allin and 2 by failing your own cheese, then you clearly don't have the ability to entertain the fans.
Ask yourself:
Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese? Pretty sure I'll take macro.
I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
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On February 24 2012 18:36 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 18:20 Grumbels wrote:On February 24 2012 18:10 Zooper31 wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. Alive started the cheesing, he just ended it with cheesing. If anything Alive is at fault for showing Idra he didn't care about the showmatch and that good games weren't going to be shown so he decided to not waste his time. "It's aLive's fault for upsetting IdrA's fragile mental balance and making him tilt, IdrA himself is not to blame." Can't people be responsible for their own actions anymore? I didn't acuse Idra of tilting. He was totally willing to go into this game to show good matches and entertain fans since it's a showmatch. 2 games in and Alive is going balls to the wall all-ins and shows he gives a fuck about entertaining anyone at long as he wins. Idra's like, ok bro lets play that game and proceeds to cheese right back. What is wrong with that? I can prob gurantee if Alive won both those games by playing normal than Idra wouldn't have cheesed the way he did because at least the games were entertaining and lasted longer than 5min. Amazing no one hates on Alive for cheesing twice in a row but they all hate on Idra for doing it.
Because, they aren't hating on cheese, just more that IdrA would so easily throw the games while not caring, cheese is a part of the game, if you can't beat it get out.
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bringing chess examples is always arguable, but if white (aLive) opens with a scholar's mate and black (IdrA) cannot setup his peons the right way to stop it, is it really whites (aLives) fault when the game does end quickly?
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On February 24 2012 19:57 Heimatloser wrote:
bringing chess examples is always arguable, but if white (aLive) opens with a scholar's mate and black (IdrA) cannot setup his peons the right way to stop it, is it really whites (aLives) fault when the game does end quickly?
Scholar's mate is a coinflip! It's not fun and white doesn't deserve to win.
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On February 24 2012 19:14 Surth wrote:
That's not how e-sports work, kiddo. It is IdrAs job to win tournaments because the tournaments give him money. These tournaments make money by having paying customers. These paying customers (thats us, genius) want to be entertained, or they (we) won't dish out money for the tournament. In other words, IT IS IDRAS JOB TO ENTERTAIN ME.
His job is whatever his contract says his job is, not anything you extrapolate from your own understanding of how things work. It's silly to act like the progamers actually owe you anything - you're watching SC2 because you yourself enjoy spending time that way, you're not doing anyone any favors.
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On February 24 2012 20:12 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 19:14 Surth wrote:
That's not how e-sports work, kiddo. It is IdrAs job to win tournaments because the tournaments give him money. These tournaments make money by having paying customers. These paying customers (thats us, genius) want to be entertained, or they (we) won't dish out money for the tournament. In other words, IT IS IDRAS JOB TO ENTERTAIN ME. His job is whatever his contract says his job is, not anything you extrapolate from your own understanding of how things work. It's silly to act like the progamers actually owe you anything - you're watching SC2 because you yourself enjoy spending time that way, you're not doing anyone any favors.
exactly
and we are not even spending money for watching the tournaments so i dont know why he should owe you anything surth...
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6 pool can easily win vs terran that don't wall off. It's a valid cheese if you expect the terran not to.
Alive outplayed Idra when he 6 pooled, nothing more to it.
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On February 24 2012 19:47 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 19:03 nokz88 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans. So, in short, you want to see NR15 matches? My idea of entertainment is kinda like MMA vs DongRaeGu Blizzard Cup finals, where well executed rush games keep things on suspense, and macro games are created not by a goddamn agreement, but by incredible ability from both parties to hold aggressive play. Lemme correct that statement you made If you're going to lose 4 games in a row, 2 by failing to stop an allin and 2 by failing your own cheese, then you clearly don't have the ability to entertain the fans. Ask yourself: Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese? Pretty sure I'll take macro. I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game. Or if Idra held it off, then counter all-ined and aLive held it off, then they settled into a macro game. I'm using the term all-in loosely as they weren't really all-ins to begin with..it's not like he sent all his SCVs with the attack. There are many more scenarios that are more entertaining/exciting than waiting 15 minutes before either side attacks to get to a macro game. But I agree, losing to early pressure builds is not very entertaining, but that's nobody's fault other than the loser's.
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On February 24 2012 20:26 Devolved wrote:
[Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game.
If you hold those all ins, you should win without having to take it to any kind of 'macro' game. Holding it is winning most of the time. Especially the double factory hellions. And that is all in.
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does the stream keep going offline for everyone? (stream 1)
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On February 24 2012 20:29 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 20:26 Devolved wrote:
[Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game.
If you hold those all ins, you should win without having to take it to any kind of 'macro' game. Holding it is winning most of the time. Especially the double factory hellions. And that is all in.
Most of the time, but not all of the time. And it's not all-in if you can do damage, which is the point of early pressure builds. It's why they work and it's why they're not all-ins. An all-in would imply that you would lose 100% if you don't kill your opponent. But with early pressure builds, all you need is to do a certain amount of damage and you have accomplished your goal of getting ahead in the game.
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On February 24 2012 20:34 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 20:29 aebriol wrote:On February 24 2012 20:26 Devolved wrote:
[Actually, I think it would be more entertaining if Idra could hold off the all-in and then take it to a macro game.
If you hold those all ins, you should win without having to take it to any kind of 'macro' game. Holding it is winning most of the time. Especially the double factory hellions. And that is all in. Most of the time, but not all of the time. And it's not all-in if you can do damage, which is the point of early pressure builds.
2 rax is a pressure opening that have to do some damage or you are far far behind.
2 factory hellions is an all in. Just like two port banshee.
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I really think blizzard has to make a new patch .. Players can only atack after 15 game minutes , that way no more rush or cheese and allows great players like Idra win 100% of their matchups ..
6 pool on big maps is as good as probe rushing , especially if the opponent walls in
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On February 24 2012 19:47 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 19:03 nokz88 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:52 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 24 2012 18:45 kinglemon wrote:On February 24 2012 12:54 ThomasHobbes wrote:On February 24 2012 09:51 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:On February 24 2012 09:23 EMCL wrote:On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty. Sure, but then you have to disrespect him in far more quantity for straight up not giving a fuck about viewers entertainment. Really disrespectful to the fans in my opinion for him to just not try "because it's just a showmatch so whatever". Awful attitude, he deserves the poor results he's gotten. It's not IdrA's job to entertain you. It is IdrA's job to win tournaments and if he had no chance of beating Alive then he might as well six pool. Except Idra specifically said it was his job to entertain, because he accused Alive of coin-flipping rather than playing entertaining games. Or do you know Idra's job better than he does? Idra was under the impression that "entertainment" was the point of the show-match. He took Alive's response to mean that wasn't the case, and threw away the rest of the games. yea sure, idra thought it was for pure entertainment. if entertainment only means "15 minutes no rush" then he really can be upset. seriously, the game is not in beta anymore where showmatches had a purpose of showing stuff. no one wants to see someone go for a battlecruiser rush if u clearly can see it's not a good choice and he doesen't care. that's fun for a very short time. who truly likes to watch exhibition games in real sports ? if they just play for fun it's the most boring stuff for the most part. to bring people a show, there has to be something serious in it. the more serious, the better the show. that's why there was prize money in it. and idra is talking like it was no big deal for him. but you clearly could see that he was raging, now he is just playing it down. Theres this crazy term called showmatch. Its pretty much meant to entertain fans, win or lose. If you're going to all in 2 games in a row, then you clearly don't care about entertaining fans. So, in short, you want to see NR15 matches? My idea of entertainment is kinda like MMA vs DongRaeGu Blizzard Cup finals, where well executed rush games keep things on suspense, and macro games are created not by a goddamn agreement, but by incredible ability from both parties to hold aggressive play. Lemme correct that statement you made If you're going to lose 4 games in a row, 2 by failing to stop an allin and 2 by failing your own cheese, then you clearly don't have the ability to entertain the fans. Ask yourself: Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese? Pretty sure I'll take macro. I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
yea dude, keep dodging the real question, that will eventually win an argument, when I get tired of arguing with you...sigh
Okay one last try, and if it does not work I'll just give up, you win by sheer stubbornness
Q: Which is more entertaining? 4 macro games, or 4 rushes/all ins/cheese?
A: 4 macro games, obviously. Just not fake macro games, where you tell the other guy "Hey, no rush okay? Let's triple expand and then go at each other", but real macro games, where both sides take the game to that point by holding off aggressive play.
Q: I'm still not sure why you would do 2 all ins in a row. I can understand 1, but really, why not just go for the macro game?
A: To win, which happens to be the whole goddamn point of this, and every other competition. Why is that so hard to understand?
If cheesing will get you a win, you cheese. If all inning will get you a win, you all in. If macro games will get you a win, you go for it. If drinking Hot6 through your nose and smashing your head into the monitor will get you a win, you fucking do it.
Win first
Everything else second
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HOLY COW
You know the Ghost nerf is messed up when fucking-mother-god-damn-bloody-'apologise for playing that race' I D R A says it's too much...!!!!
MIND == BLOWN
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Shiro: It’s been several months since you started training in the SlayerS house. Do you feel like your play has improved since you arrived? In what way?
IdrA: Massively so in a lot of ways, playing the Korean ladder forces you to be much cleaner and safer because everyone has such well designed aggressive builds. You can’t cut corners, at all. And then of course practicing with the SlayerS members just gets you used to playing against great players, which is the best way to practice and improve in general.
Meanwhile IdrA is 2-17 map score in 2012. Can't stop laughing when reading his response :D
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so he's spent 2 months in the slayers house and he considers hellion openings cheese? LOL
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On February 24 2012 21:45 CursedRich wrote:
so he's spent 2 months in the slayers house and he considers hellion openings cheese? LOL
There's a difference between 2fac mass hellion and a standard hellion opening.
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Bisutopia19185 Posts
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Not sure whether I am suppose to be more amused about Idra's answer to the six pools, or about the reaction of his obviously not thinking fanboys, who either think that there is no viable transition from a failed two rax (wrong, see some of boxer's game) or that there is a viable transition from a failed six pool against terran (wrong, against protoss, you might have the chance to do enough damage to be somewhat equal; against terran and their common wall-offs, this is not possible).
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wait what? i read through a lot of responses that were that Alive's play is not entertaining. who cares? competitive play is about show casing your skills and winning as many matches as you can. a showmatch doesn't mean that you should sacrfice your best play for entertainment's sake. Show matches aren't the NBA all-star game folks, I personally watch them to see the best play, that is personally what is entertaining to me. If you enjoy starcraft 2 for the GOOD reasons, then you should want to always see people wanting to win, and not just wanting to land some nukes
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Is it just me or myeg.net is down?
Edit: it is working now
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i cant seem to get into myeg.net either ;/
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Why do people always think that macro games are the most entertaining? NR20 IS BORING. Aggressive play is entertaining, not boring passive macro. Gumiho vs DRG game 1 was so amazing to watch because of Gumiho's aggression and multitasking. Jookto vs whoever in that 1.3 hour teamleague match was as macro as it gets and it was one of the worst games ever played. The game is not about big armies clashing, if that's the kind of shallow gameplay that gets you off then go watch a movie. Starcraft is about smart decision making and multitasking regardless of the unit count. Alive's raven rush against MMA in the GSL ro8 was just as exciting as most games that last three times as long.
It's just a shame that Idra couldn't last long enough for Alive to show off some of his decision making. He just rolled over and died every time.
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it would of been fun if his 6 pool would of worked. but personally i would of liked a 10 pool more. And i would of liked it if he would not of told us that he did not care for the games.
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What bothered me most about Idra's 6-pooling was the WAY he 6-pooled. Not making a 7th drone before lings (which makes a HUGE difference). Fully committing to the rush when he'd already done damage by forcing the transfer/main shift, and still had time to turn it into a realish game instead of bashing his thick, self-important fucking skull against a brick wall.
Not only did you 6pool, IdrA, you 6-pooled terribly. You disrespected the game you play by giving a hearty "Fuck you!" to the fans and your own results. Christ, develop a little damn mental toughness, will you?
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Fundamental problem with Starcraft 2 is the inability to scout adequately against build order losses. Zerg is especially vulnerable to all ins, and yet have an early scouting method that is both costly and prone to failure. I'm not going to bother with the expansions with this game unless Blizzard puts in some actual effort into the game, because there are so many flaws in the most basic levels that will likely never be addressed.
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On February 24 2012 21:51 arcane1129 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 21:45 CursedRich wrote:
so he's spent 2 months in the slayers house and he considers hellion openings cheese? LOL There's a difference between 2fac mass hellion and a standard hellion opening.
Yes of course, but its not like he's in the best place in the world to train against both
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I hate it when pros just whine about blizzard balancing and suggest nothing in return. If you are so smart lets look at your ideas and have something to compare to.
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Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature.
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On February 24 2012 22:50 Cheerio wrote:
I hate it when pros just whine about blizzard balancing and suggest nothing in return. If you are so smart lets look at your ideas and have something to compare to.
It's not his job to waste time trying to make the game right, nor does he have the game knowledge to balance properly.
What should he have said? That he fully agreed with Blizz, and that they were doing a great job, when in truth, they have designed a shitty game? There's a reason most people ''whine'' when asked that question
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On February 24 2012 23:06 mostevil wrote:
Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature.
2 rax isn't cheese, but 11/11 is imo. hellions aretn't cheese, but 2 reactor mass hellion is. His reasoning was pretty acceptable imo. If Alive doesn't want to show good games and entertain, why the hell should he? Besides, as he said, coming back from a 0-2, getting cheesed on the zerg maps, against a player like fucking Alive...? Not a chance
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On February 24 2012 22:04 polybios wrote:Is it just me or myeg.net is down? Edit: it is working now
Seems to be down for me atm.
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I am quite convinced that Idra can no longer be a top player (even in foreign scene). In BETA his mechanics were the only thing which made him one of the best players (and all thanks to his BW background) but now he is slowly fading away. His mental strength is close to nothing and it can be easily seen in Idra's BoX matches against equally skilled or even better players. After losing like one game he totally collapses and starts all-in'ing and throwing games away. If you want to be a winner, you have to have a mindset of a winner. And Idra simply does not have it.
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On February 24 2012 23:28 Huragius wrote:
I am quite convinced that Idra can no longer be a top player (even in foreign scene). In BETA his mechanics were the only thing which made him one of the best players (and all thanks to his BW background) but now he is slowly fading away. His mental strength is close to nothing and it can be easily seen in Idra's BoX matches against equally skilled or even better players. After losing like one game he totally collapses and starts all-in'ing and throwing games away. If you want to be a winner, you have to have a mindset of a winner. And Idra simply does not have it.
I think you're blowing this way out of proportion again... He was down 0-2 because of cheese on the zerg maps, and had only terran maps left to play. Besides, as he said, it was only a showmatch he was asked to play a couple hours before.
I guess we'll see later today, at MLG Winter Arena
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I know this is not a common sentiment... but I agree with Idra how the games would not have been exciting anyways. You all rage on Idra for 6 pooling, but it was Alive who was doing the typical boring terran all-ins weve been seeing for well over a year. That is extremely boring to me. I guess I am in the minority, but I don't enjoy watching almost every Terran in Korea doing boring pre 8 minute all in coin flips.
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So fucking spot on with his balance analysis.
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On February 24 2012 23:25 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:06 mostevil wrote:
Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature. 2 rax isn't cheese, but 11/11 is imo. hellions aretn't cheese, but 2 reactor mass hellion is. His reasoning was pretty acceptable imo. If Alive doesn't want to show good games and entertain, why the hell should he? Besides, as he said, coming back from a 0-2, getting cheesed on the zerg maps, against a player like fucking Alive...? Not a chance
First of all, that 'entertaining games' card is bullshit to me. Some cheeses or all-ins are totally fine in Bo7 series and even makes it more fun for viewers. And when a professional player starts to complain about all-ins due to which he decided not to take showmatch serious makes me want to cry and laugh at same time. If Idra tried to play those last matches like a real man, who knows, maybe these series would have turned out to be quite a showmatch but when he threw it away the whole event seemed like shit. So even if he complained about Alive's cheeses, what he did was way worse.
Also, I think (I may be wrong, but who knows!) that actually playing the last two games would have given Idra a better chance two win the series instead of throwing them away...
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On February 24 2012 23:33 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:28 Huragius wrote:
I am quite convinced that Idra can no longer be a top player (even in foreign scene). In BETA his mechanics were the only thing which made him one of the best players (and all thanks to his BW background) but now he is slowly fading away. His mental strength is close to nothing and it can be easily seen in Idra's BoX matches against equally skilled or even better players. After losing like one game he totally collapses and starts all-in'ing and throwing games away. If you want to be a winner, you have to have a mindset of a winner. And Idra simply does not have it. I think you're blowing this way out of proportion again... He was down 0-2 because of cheese on the zerg maps, and had only terran maps left to play. Besides, as he said, it was only a showmatch he was asked to play a couple hours before. I guess we'll see later today, at MLG Winter Arena
I am talking about his overall performances in late 2011 and 2012, not specifically this showmatch.
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On February 24 2012 09:19 yoten wrote:
Gotta respect Idra for his openness and honesty.
yeah, exactly my words. This was a good interview. Im not an Idra fan but he is very honest in this interview - especially about PvZ.
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Thought I don't agree with all of Idra's opinions I can respect his honesty in his answers rather than generic on the fence automated response. I can actually understand where he is coming from with a few of his answers rather than broad complaining about certain factors, it seems like at least a step in the right direction for his mentality.
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wow idra did six pool TWICE???
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On February 24 2012 23:44 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:25 Aocowns wrote:On February 24 2012 23:06 mostevil wrote:
Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature. 2 rax isn't cheese, but 11/11 is imo. hellions aretn't cheese, but 2 reactor mass hellion is. His reasoning was pretty acceptable imo. If Alive doesn't want to show good games and entertain, why the hell should he? Besides, as he said, coming back from a 0-2, getting cheesed on the zerg maps, against a player like fucking Alive...? Not a chance First of all, that 'entertaining games' card is bullshit to me. Some cheeses or all-ins are totally fine in Bo7 series and even makes it more fun for viewers. And when a professional player starts to complain about all-ins due to which he decided not to take showmatch serious makes me want to cry and laugh at same time. If Idra tried to play those last matches like a real man, who knows, maybe these series would have turned out to be quite a showmatch but when he threw it away the whole event seemed like shit. So even if he complained about Alive's cheeses, what he did was way worse. Also, I think (I may be wrong, but who knows!) that actually playing the last two games would have given Idra a better chance two win the series instead of throwing them away...
Alive would probably just keep throwing timings and cheeses at him, and at least I personally find that to be just as boring and annoying to watch as 6-pooling.
The players that love to see terrans cheese in 10 min games probably wouldn't mind seeing a 6-pool all that much either, so I don't see the difference between what Alive and Idra did. Of course, Idra could have chosen a better all in, but zergs are incredily limited when it comes to early timings and all ins, and Alive isn't exactly the type we see lose to Zerg all ins
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Can't believe i'm saying this but i agree with Idra on his points regarding the balancing situation ^^
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On February 25 2012 00:07 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:44 Huragius wrote:On February 24 2012 23:25 Aocowns wrote:On February 24 2012 23:06 mostevil wrote:
Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature. 2 rax isn't cheese, but 11/11 is imo. hellions aretn't cheese, but 2 reactor mass hellion is. His reasoning was pretty acceptable imo. If Alive doesn't want to show good games and entertain, why the hell should he? Besides, as he said, coming back from a 0-2, getting cheesed on the zerg maps, against a player like fucking Alive...? Not a chance First of all, that 'entertaining games' card is bullshit to me. Some cheeses or all-ins are totally fine in Bo7 series and even makes it more fun for viewers. And when a professional player starts to complain about all-ins due to which he decided not to take showmatch serious makes me want to cry and laugh at same time. If Idra tried to play those last matches like a real man, who knows, maybe these series would have turned out to be quite a showmatch but when he threw it away the whole event seemed like shit. So even if he complained about Alive's cheeses, what he did was way worse. Also, I think (I may be wrong, but who knows!) that actually playing the last two games would have given Idra a better chance two win the series instead of throwing them away... Alive would probably just keep throwing timings and cheeses at him, and at least I personally find that to be just as boring and annoying to watch as 6-pooling. The players that love to see terrans cheese in 10 min games probably wouldn't mind seeing a 6-pool all that much either, so I don't see the difference between what Alive and Idra did. Of course, Idra could have chosen a better all in, but zergs are incredily limited when it comes to early timings and all ins, and Alive isn't exactly the type we see lose to Zerg all ins
did you watch alives games in code s? and yet your saying alive is an allin-player who falls to cheese?
also: do you really want to watch seven 30 minute games with 5 min break inbetween, sitting infront of your pc three straight hours? and if youre the player: do you really want to play seven 30 minute games with 5 min break inbetween, sitting infront of your pc three straight hours? bo7 IS pretty tiring.
throwing in a few all-ins is the most common thing to do.
now considering the idra-tilt-factor, doing all-ins right on the start was the best choice;-)
because it looks like HE didnt plan his allins for the third and fourth game (if he planned ANYTHING for the showmatch, that is).
the only real losers here are the viewers.
edit: also keep in mind, it was a SHOWMATCH, meaning player got payed to show us a match. alive worked out some flashy build to keep the viewers entertained, but idra seemed to not have invested a single second beforehands for the match. playing games is his god damn job and i would expect a gamer to invest some time to entertain us.
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Since when is 2rax bunker rush and double reactor hellion all-in cheese? Sure they are extremely aggressive openers that can be shut down completely and get you far behind but to refer to them as "cheese" seems a bit much. Then again it is IdrA. If you don't make 4 CCs before Rax then you're cheesing.
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Idra is nothing special. Like all so called "pro-gamers" he plays more than average. That's why he is better.
Regarding Idra 6 pooling, why is it such a big deal? I do it all the time. lol
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Personally find such cheeses quite amusing. I don't see the fuss. Keeps the players honest.
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Who cares if it is a showmatch, does anyone really want to watch a game where two pros don't play their hardest to win?
aLive cheesed two games in a row, and won two games in a row. IdrA, being the proponent for safe playing, should/would have managed to hold off the cheese had he been the better player that day.
I'd don't care that he six pooled twice in a row, but it doesn't reflect well on EG, specially when they were so vocal about the Naniwa sitation. To IdrA's defence, he seemed to take Naniwas side in that whole debacle.
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On February 25 2012 00:18 Heimatloser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 00:07 Aocowns wrote:On February 24 2012 23:44 Huragius wrote:On February 24 2012 23:25 Aocowns wrote:On February 24 2012 23:06 mostevil wrote:
Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature. 2 rax isn't cheese, but 11/11 is imo. hellions aretn't cheese, but 2 reactor mass hellion is. His reasoning was pretty acceptable imo. If Alive doesn't want to show good games and entertain, why the hell should he? Besides, as he said, coming back from a 0-2, getting cheesed on the zerg maps, against a player like fucking Alive...? Not a chance First of all, that 'entertaining games' card is bullshit to me. Some cheeses or all-ins are totally fine in Bo7 series and even makes it more fun for viewers. And when a professional player starts to complain about all-ins due to which he decided not to take showmatch serious makes me want to cry and laugh at same time. If Idra tried to play those last matches like a real man, who knows, maybe these series would have turned out to be quite a showmatch but when he threw it away the whole event seemed like shit. So even if he complained about Alive's cheeses, what he did was way worse. Also, I think (I may be wrong, but who knows!) that actually playing the last two games would have given Idra a better chance two win the series instead of throwing them away... Alive would probably just keep throwing timings and cheeses at him, and at least I personally find that to be just as boring and annoying to watch as 6-pooling. The players that love to see terrans cheese in 10 min games probably wouldn't mind seeing a 6-pool all that much either, so I don't see the difference between what Alive and Idra did. Of course, Idra could have chosen a better all in, but zergs are incredily limited when it comes to early timings and all ins, and Alive isn't exactly the type we see lose to Zerg all ins did you watch alives games in code s? and yet your saying alive is an allin-player who falls to cheese? also: do you really want to watch seven 30 minute games with 5 min break inbetween, sitting infront of your pc three straight hours? and if youre the player: do you really want to play seven 30 minute games with 5 min break inbetween, sitting infront of your pc three straight hours? bo7 IS pretty tiring. throwing in a few all-ins is the most common thing to do. now considering the idra-tilt-factor, doing all-ins right on the start was the best choice;-) because it looks like HE didnt plan his allins for the third and fourth game (if he planned ANYTHING for the showmatch, that is). the only real losers here are the viewers.
I never said Alive was a cheeser...? He is an incredibly strong and versatile player, like all the top terran players. Idra was asked about the showmatch a few hours before the actual match, so I guess he didn't have a world of time to plan that much. Stop exagerating, of course it would have been annoying watching 7 30 min games. By ''macro game'' I mean a game that progress all the way to 3 bases, and past.
Yeah, Alive gave us 2 shitty games, and then Idra gave us 2 shitty games :/ Such a shame, I really think it would have made for a good match if it made it past the 10 min mark. Idra's macro is always a joy to watch, and Alive is Alive; a freaking GSL finals contender
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thx for sharing - nice interview
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On February 24 2012 20:26 aebriol wrote:
6 pool can easily win vs terran that don't wall off. It's a valid cheese if you expect the terran not to.
Alive outplayed Idra when he 6 pooled, nothing more to it.
(Alive didn't wall in. Idra 6 pooled. Idra lost. Apparently it's not easy enough for Idra to manage to win).
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On February 25 2012 00:09 s3rp wrote:
Can't believe i'm saying this but i agree with Idra on his points regarding the balancing situation ^^
I think so too. Sometimes I read things and watch things that make Idra look whiny and bad, other times he comes in with spot-on, detailed reasoning.
This interview was great. I hope Idra does better than I expect him too, especially vs Oz!
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On February 25 2012 00:29 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 00:18 Heimatloser wrote:On February 25 2012 00:07 Aocowns wrote:On February 24 2012 23:44 Huragius wrote:On February 24 2012 23:25 Aocowns wrote:On February 24 2012 23:06 mostevil wrote:
Wait, what, are we still calling bunker openers are cheese, and now helions too..... 11/11 is scoutable, can be held and needs to do damage. It's a poor situation where terrans have to sit back and let zerg make drones for 10 minutes and then play from way behind. Top terrans vs Idra it might put even but zergs with better army control should never lose playing this 10mins no rush daftness...
Six pool by all means if you want but if that reasoning actually is honest (which I doubt), it's not intelligent or mature. 2 rax isn't cheese, but 11/11 is imo. hellions aretn't cheese, but 2 reactor mass hellion is. His reasoning was pretty acceptable imo. If Alive doesn't want to show good games and entertain, why the hell should he? Besides, as he said, coming back from a 0-2, getting cheesed on the zerg maps, against a player like fucking Alive...? Not a chance First of all, that 'entertaining games' card is bullshit to me. Some cheeses or all-ins are totally fine in Bo7 series and even makes it more fun for viewers. And when a professional player starts to complain about all-ins due to which he decided not to take showmatch serious makes me want to cry and laugh at same time. If Idra tried to play those last matches like a real man, who knows, maybe these series would have turned out to be quite a showmatch but when he threw it away the whole event seemed like shit. So even if he complained about Alive's cheeses, what he did was way worse. Also, I think (I may be wrong, but who knows!) that actually playing the last two games would have given Idra a better chance two win the series instead of throwing them away... Alive would probably just keep throwing timings and cheeses at him, and at least I personally find that to be just as boring and annoying to watch as 6-pooling. The players that love to see terrans cheese in 10 min games probably wouldn't mind seeing a 6-pool all that much either, so I don't see the difference between what Alive and Idra did. Of course, Idra could have chosen a better all in, but zergs are incredily limited when it comes to early timings and all ins, and Alive isn't exactly the type we see lose to Zerg all ins did you watch alives games in code s? and yet your saying alive is an allin-player who falls to cheese? also: do you really want to watch seven 30 minute games with 5 min break inbetween, sitting infront of your pc three straight hours? and if youre the player: do you really want to play seven 30 minute games with 5 min break inbetween, sitting infront of your pc three straight hours? bo7 IS pretty tiring. throwing in a few all-ins is the most common thing to do. now considering the idra-tilt-factor, doing all-ins right on the start was the best choice;-) because it looks like HE didnt plan his allins for the third and fourth game (if he planned ANYTHING for the showmatch, that is). the only real losers here are the viewers. I never said Alive was a cheeser...? He is an incredibly strong and versatile player, like all the top terran players. Idra was asked about the showmatch a few hours before the actual match, so I guess he didn't have a world of time to plan that much. Stop exagerating, of course it would have been annoying watching 7 30 min games. By ''macro game'' I mean a game that progress all the way to 3 bases, and past. Yeah, Alive gave us 2 shitty games, and then Idra gave us 2 shitty games :/ Such a shame, I really think it would have made for a good match if it made it past the 10 min mark. Idra's macro is always a joy to watch, and Alive is Alive; a freaking GSL finals contender
They were bad games and do feel bad for Idra. He is clearly in a bad place mentally and it is affecting his play. He had such a good run in Code S back in the day, but I think he is feeling the pain of being unable to recreate those results. Still, he is fun to cheer for when he is on his game and hopefully we can get back to it.
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EPT
