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On February 23 2012 23:48 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:35 Doodsmack wrote:
Strongly disagree with this decision. If TL wants its calendar to be an "information source" to TL users, it makes no sense to not include information about a major SC2 event that's going on. In fact TL is doing its users a disservice by not providing as much notification of the event as possible. The idea that the lack of an embedded free stream means that a calendar link would lack utility for TL users is trivial in my eyes. Simply putting a link to MLG's site would be very simple...it's not direct advertising and again, the purpose of a calendar is to notify people of what events are going on. In fact, before reading this post I naturally assumed that every single SC2 event goes onto TL's calendar.
Also, TL is clearly trying to pander to its users while being diplomatic when it simultaneously says that "we had reservations with a PPV model with no free stream option" and "[t]his doesn't mean we disagree with MLG trying this PPV model out." TL is trying to have its cake and eat it too with that contradiction. TL's admins no doubt took note of the results of their poll on the home page and made this decision accordingly. When you add a free event to a calendar, you are giving information to your users. If you add a PPV only event to your calendar, you are giving ads to the event.
This is a silly distinction. If MLG Arena is listed in the same manner on the calendar as, say, a Dreamhack event, it's no more an "ad" for the former than it is for the latter. It's "giving information to your users" that the event is going on, as you said. An ad is a banner, a sponsored thread, etc. A listing on a calendar is just information. That's what calendars are for.
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On February 23 2012 23:55 Meovin- wrote:
Just for clarification, all the vod's will be available for free one week after the event right? I remember reading that somewhere, just wondering if it's true or not.
It's true 
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And this is why I love TL, a very well reasoned argument that is presented in a professional manner (including feedback)
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On February 23 2012 23:43 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:38 ceaRshaf wrote:
And MLG Adams and Sundances declarations that they have already reaches their expectations have a big smell of bullshit. "Let's make it sound successful so people can still come and we don't have to sell our homes" As mentioned earlier, it is advertisement. He would most likely post something similar no matter how the sales went. Maybe he would use actual numbers if they had actually sold a lot though?  Who knows...
Lol @ you stating that as fact as if it's not just your cynical assumption. You really think Sundance would straight up lie on his Twitter? It's usually not a good idea to accuse someone of lying when you don't have a shred of evidence.
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Nicely done TL! But I think TL sponsors (TLAF, Razor) may get upset about this issue. Obviously they want more exposure to TL players on big event like MLG, yet the biggest SC2 community TL doesn't feature the event(But seriously, Winter Arena has been hot issues on TL forum for several weeks). I support TL's decision and I hope my worries are just little fluffs.
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On February 23 2012 23:58 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:48 Xalorian wrote:On February 23 2012 23:35 Doodsmack wrote:
Strongly disagree with this decision. If TL wants its calendar to be an "information source" to TL users, it makes no sense to not include information about a major SC2 event that's going on. In fact TL is doing its users a disservice by not providing as much notification of the event as possible. The idea that the lack of an embedded free stream means that a calendar link would lack utility for TL users is trivial in my eyes. Simply putting a link to MLG's site would be very simple...it's not direct advertising and again, the purpose of a calendar is to notify people of what events are going on. In fact, before reading this post I naturally assumed that every single SC2 event goes onto TL's calendar.
Also, TL is clearly trying to pander to its users while being diplomatic when it simultaneously says that "we had reservations with a PPV model with no free stream option" and "[t]his doesn't mean we disagree with MLG trying this PPV model out." TL is trying to have its cake and eat it too with that contradiction. TL's admins no doubt took note of the results of their poll on the home page and made this decision accordingly. When you add a free event to a calendar, you are giving information to your users. If you add a PPV only event to your calendar, you are giving ads to the event. This is a silly distinction. If MLG Arena is listed in the same manner on the calendar as, say, a Dreamhack event, it's no more an "ad" for the former than it is for the latter. It's "giving information to your users" that the event is going on, as you said. An ad is a banner, a sponsored thread, etc. A listing on a calendar is just information. That's what calendars are for.
Stop posting, you don't understand.
If the information given is a link to a product that you have to pay for IT'S ADVERTISING!
How hard is it to understand?
Lol @ you stating that as fact as if it's not just your cynical assumption. You really think Sundance would straight up lie on his Twitter? It's usually not a good idea to accuse someone of lying when you don't have a shred of evidence.
I am not obligated to believe every person in the world that says things to me. I am entitled to an opinion regarding his statements.
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On February 23 2012 21:47 act.hero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 21:45 nam nam wrote:On February 23 2012 21:39 act.hero wrote:
Not like anyone was going to watch anyway. No need to put it on the calendar. MLG will still get more viewers than a lot of other featured streams so that's not a very good point. Losing 90% of their stream viewers means more than $20 for each lemming that thinks any match in MLG is going to be worth paying for.
While each "lemming" that pays for MLG will be enjoying a tournament with a lot of top players and supporting an organisation which has given them so much entertainment in the past. It doesn't matter what your reasoning or excuse is for not paying, it is your money and you can spend it where you wish. Just don't flame people who have decided to spend it on something you wouldn't.
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On February 23 2012 13:14 dAPhREAk wrote:
screw that. MLG should pay for a sponsored thread; share the wealth. seriously, how expensive could a sponsored thread actually be? Sundance gave his whole spiel about promoting teams, etc. I would think they would throw a bone to teamliquid.net considering more than 90% of MLG's viewers probably came from teamliquid. does anyone go to MLG's website before they visit teamliquid?
your calendar policy seems reasonable. surprised this much thought went into it. you guys are very business like about everything.
Well you'd think that your question about how expensive a sponsored thread should be would be straight forward but TL isn't as transparent as everyone is led to believe in all cases. Maybe the price of sponsored thread is much more than you think. I mean if MLG came to you asking about sponsored thread cost you'd probably ask them for more than some small group starting something new right? The price of a sponsorship VARIES based on the content and last time I requested a price there was no media kit that had standard documented pricing.
Also, the referral program supports the development of a viable financial model for eSports, not supporting it just shows MLG invenstors that this community has no potential for return on investment.
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On February 23 2012 23:58 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:48 Xalorian wrote:On February 23 2012 23:35 Doodsmack wrote:
Strongly disagree with this decision. If TL wants its calendar to be an "information source" to TL users, it makes no sense to not include information about a major SC2 event that's going on. In fact TL is doing its users a disservice by not providing as much notification of the event as possible. The idea that the lack of an embedded free stream means that a calendar link would lack utility for TL users is trivial in my eyes. Simply putting a link to MLG's site would be very simple...it's not direct advertising and again, the purpose of a calendar is to notify people of what events are going on. In fact, before reading this post I naturally assumed that every single SC2 event goes onto TL's calendar.
Also, TL is clearly trying to pander to its users while being diplomatic when it simultaneously says that "we had reservations with a PPV model with no free stream option" and "[t]his doesn't mean we disagree with MLG trying this PPV model out." TL is trying to have its cake and eat it too with that contradiction. TL's admins no doubt took note of the results of their poll on the home page and made this decision accordingly. When you add a free event to a calendar, you are giving information to your users. If you add a PPV only event to your calendar, you are giving ads to the event. This is a silly distinction. If MLG Arena is listed in the same manner on the calendar as, say, a Dreamhack event, it's no more an "ad" for the former than it is for the latter. It's "giving information to your users" that the event is going on, as you said. An ad is a banner, a sponsored thread, etc. A listing on a calendar is just information. That's what calendars are for.
Then consider them both ads if you want but they see a difference between a free ad for a tourney with a free stream option and a free ad for a pay only stream
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On February 23 2012 23:58 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:48 Xalorian wrote:On February 23 2012 23:35 Doodsmack wrote:
Strongly disagree with this decision. If TL wants its calendar to be an "information source" to TL users, it makes no sense to not include information about a major SC2 event that's going on. In fact TL is doing its users a disservice by not providing as much notification of the event as possible. The idea that the lack of an embedded free stream means that a calendar link would lack utility for TL users is trivial in my eyes. Simply putting a link to MLG's site would be very simple...it's not direct advertising and again, the purpose of a calendar is to notify people of what events are going on. In fact, before reading this post I naturally assumed that every single SC2 event goes onto TL's calendar.
Also, TL is clearly trying to pander to its users while being diplomatic when it simultaneously says that "we had reservations with a PPV model with no free stream option" and "[t]his doesn't mean we disagree with MLG trying this PPV model out." TL is trying to have its cake and eat it too with that contradiction. TL's admins no doubt took note of the results of their poll on the home page and made this decision accordingly. When you add a free event to a calendar, you are giving information to your users. If you add a PPV only event to your calendar, you are giving ads to the event. This is a silly distinction. If MLG Arena is listed in the same manner on the calendar as, say, a Dreamhack event, it's no more an "ad" for the former than it is for the latter. It's "giving information to your users" that the event is going on, as you said. An ad is a banner, a sponsored thread, etc. A listing on a calendar is just information. That's what calendars are for.
No, it's not. It's a perfect distinction.
There is no downside to "advertise" anything that is free. No one will lose money because of it, you are just informing your users. But, if you advertise something that is "PPV"... that is completly different. If someone buy a ticket because he saw it on TL, and then, the event suck as hell and is canceled for X reasons, the user just lost 20$... at this point TL is getting involved in it. TL just advertised a product that cost money, got nothing for it, and caused some people in their community to actually lose money.
When money is involved, everything must be taken way more seriously.
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On February 23 2012 22:48 Milkis wrote:
Could have sworn Arena of Legends was listed on the calendar. The first iteration, that is.
owell. as long as they keep to this policy in the future...
This was discussed in the first few pages. I didn't really follow the AoL so I don't know how true it is, but I think there were some events from AoL1 that were posted because they eventually became free.
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On February 24 2012 00:10 garbanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:48 Milkis wrote:
Could have sworn Arena of Legends was listed on the calendar. The first iteration, that is.
owell. as long as they keep to this policy in the future... This was discussed in the first few pages. I didn't really follow the AoL so I don't know how true it is, but I think there were some events from AoL1 that were posted because they eventually became free.
I'm pretty sure none of the first AOL was free.
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Definitely agree with this, will there still be preview threads and/or a mlg portal like for the previous events?
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On February 24 2012 00:00 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:43 Cascade wrote:On February 23 2012 23:38 ceaRshaf wrote:
And MLG Adams and Sundances declarations that they have already reaches their expectations have a big smell of bullshit. "Let's make it sound successful so people can still come and we don't have to sell our homes" As mentioned earlier, it is advertisement. He would most likely post something similar no matter how the sales went. Maybe he would use actual numbers if they had actually sold a lot though? Who knows... Lol @ you stating that as fact as if it's not just your cynical assumption. You really think Sundance would straight up lie on his Twitter? It's usually not a good idea to accuse someone of lying when you don't have a shred of evidence.
You really had to PM me so I wouldn't miss your reply? And an extra little "lol" just for that inflammatory tone, nice.
But sure, since you seem to be in that mood, I can elaborate a bit.
I have very little idea about who Sundance is in person, or the details of how MLG is advertised, but I see no reason for any company to not make a statement that will increase their sales, when there is no chance of their statement being proven false. In this case, we will never know what their projections are, and we do not know how much they have sold up to now. Maybe they will publish number of sold tickets, but I doubt we will ever know their projections. So it is entirely safe to tweet, true or not.
So:
- Will never be proven false.
- Will help sales.
- Will make sponsors happy.
Why not? I mean, I honestly hope that MLG does well, for e-sports in general, and I think twitter is a great place to advertise, so I genuinely hope that he will get more viewers from it. But I think we should be careful in using his tweet as confirmation that sales are actually doing well.
You can compare to how everyone are publishing stream information in ways to make it look like every single person on the globe was watching on triple screens in HD every second of their tournament.
And plase don't PM me any more.
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Nice to see very open coverage of these things.
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On February 24 2012 00:08 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:58 Doodsmack wrote:On February 23 2012 23:48 Xalorian wrote:On February 23 2012 23:35 Doodsmack wrote:
Strongly disagree with this decision. If TL wants its calendar to be an "information source" to TL users, it makes no sense to not include information about a major SC2 event that's going on. In fact TL is doing its users a disservice by not providing as much notification of the event as possible. The idea that the lack of an embedded free stream means that a calendar link would lack utility for TL users is trivial in my eyes. Simply putting a link to MLG's site would be very simple...it's not direct advertising and again, the purpose of a calendar is to notify people of what events are going on. In fact, before reading this post I naturally assumed that every single SC2 event goes onto TL's calendar.
Also, TL is clearly trying to pander to its users while being diplomatic when it simultaneously says that "we had reservations with a PPV model with no free stream option" and "[t]his doesn't mean we disagree with MLG trying this PPV model out." TL is trying to have its cake and eat it too with that contradiction. TL's admins no doubt took note of the results of their poll on the home page and made this decision accordingly. When you add a free event to a calendar, you are giving information to your users. If you add a PPV only event to your calendar, you are giving ads to the event. This is a silly distinction. If MLG Arena is listed in the same manner on the calendar as, say, a Dreamhack event, it's no more an "ad" for the former than it is for the latter. It's "giving information to your users" that the event is going on, as you said. An ad is a banner, a sponsored thread, etc. A listing on a calendar is just information. That's what calendars are for. No, it's not. It's a perfect distinction. There is no downside to "advertise" anything that is free. No one will lose money because of it, you are just informing your users. But, if you advertise something that is "PPV"... that is completly different. If someone buy a ticket because he saw it on TL, and then, the event suck as hell and is canceled for X reasons, the user just lost 20$... at this point TL is getting involved in it. TL just advertised a product that cost money, got nothing for it, and caused some people in their community to actually lose money. When money is involved, everything must be taken way more seriously.
Thank you for admitting that in both cases (for a free stream and for a PPV one) it can be considered an advertisement. That settles the argument we were having which was whether one is an ad and the other is not. That's the distinction I referred to.
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Well, why are you even arguing about something so dumb? That's the point of the featured streams. It's advertising good, free content. Who cares if the two of you disagree, or agree, or misunderstood each other, certainly not the entire TL readership.
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On February 24 2012 00:03 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:58 Doodsmack wrote:
This is a silly distinction. If MLG Arena is listed in the same manner on the calendar as, say, a Dreamhack event, it's no more an "ad" for the former than it is for the latter. It's "giving information to your users" that the event is going on, as you said. An ad is a banner, a sponsored thread, etc. A listing on a calendar is just information. That's what calendars are for. Stop posting, you don't understand. If the information given is a link to a product that you have to pay for IT'S ADVERTISING! How hard is it to understand?
Uhh...I just presented an argument for why a calendar listing for a PPV stream is no more an "ad" than a calendar listing for a free stream. In response to my argument, you said "the PPV listing is advertising" without trying to explain yourself. Why are you accusing me of not understanding when you don't even have enough understanding of the discussion to explain your own reasoning? Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept of an advertisement. In case you're not aware, free events can advertise themselves.
On February 24 2012 00:03 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 23:58 Doodsmack wrote:
Lol @ you stating that as fact as if it's not just your cynical assumption. You really think Sundance would straight up lie on his Twitter? It's usually not a good idea to accuse someone of lying when you don't have a shred of evidence. I am not obligated to believe every person in the world that says things to me. I am entitled to an opinion regarding his statements.
That wasn't your post, bud. It was Cascade's.
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EPT
