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On February 23 2012 19:21 PeZuY wrote:
OFF TOPIC:
Why can't people discuss these things in a good manner instead of calling people dumbfucks or ignorant who doesn't want to face any facts, since only fact is that every matchup will be fucked up when the main race is being raced. Seriously? This doesn't help the starcraft community at all, more infact makes people stop playing and stops supporting the game itself. There are some awesome personalities in the forum and completely understand CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM which ain't the same as running over someone with fancy curse words and shouting that your opinion sucks. Peace yo~
We did give constructive criticism. Tons of people pointed out that the snipe nerf should be a minus against massive units, or perhaps a bonus to psionic and light. It was repeated everywhere, from TL to the battle.net forums to State of the Game, and pretty much everyone agreed that would make sense, even zergs like Catz!
And Blizzard completely ignored our suggestions, and didn't even bother to let us test their nerf. Hence why people are pissed. Even people who don't play Terran much are pissed, because Blizzard is destroying possible tactics when it could easily have been avoided.
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On February 24 2012 00:33 Begtse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 00:29 shockaslim wrote:
If someone makes ultras first and I make marauders, and then they go Brood Lord, well now I have a bunch of useless units,
Reminds me of corruptors versus P...
Oh the days when Zerg wouldn't get off of Lair tech ever and then get rolled by that Protoss deathball. But at least you can make Brood Lords from them I guess.
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Has any ony actually considered how this is going to effect the TvP matchup? colosis phenix is going to be so powerfull again
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On February 23 2012 13:19 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 13:11 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On February 23 2012 13:03 happyness wrote:
^ I will agree that this is really bad timings for a patch.
Gumiho will need a lot of luck. One nerf and all Terran is now a useless race in need of luck to win. Bad timing sure, but is there ever a 'good' time these days with the number of tournaments on around the world? Also I'll reiterate that I think it's naiive to assume that this will affect the pros negatively. It will change their strategies probably, but they and everyone else have known about these changes for quite a while. I can only assume that they have practiced with the changes in preparation for when the patch landed and are suitably prepared for tonight. They're pros after all, and it's their business to be ready for balance changes. Zergs get to play safer early/mid if they know they can dominate late. But true, it's too early to make a final judgment. In any case, zergs are having a very hard time in Korea. But this is also about competition, not just balance. When it is as easily avoidable as waiting to deliver the patch till after the weekend, then why the fuck not? It's a balance change made for pro level, introduced at a time where it fucks up what will possibly be the weekend with the most pro level competition throughout the year. GSL semis, MLG and Assembly. I don't quite understand why you see the need to to play the 'Leave Blizzard alone'-card. They deserve backlash to help them learn.
well if its a balance change that blizzard is making , that means blizzard thinks its an issue that needs to be dealt with (the ghosts, phoenix). this means that it should be done before a major tourney so that the tourney is balanced and whoever wins didnt win because of an overpowered unit (ie..ghost). so dont complain that blizzard is patching b4 a tourney cus u actually want that. i dont want gumiho to beat DRG because of OP ghosts. of course that is the assumption that ghosts are actually OP. dont complain about patching time, complain about the actual changes
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:12 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Has any ony actually considered how this is going to effect the TvP matchup? colosis phenix is going to be so powerfull again
The rise of one of the very few protoss harassment units in a matchup dominated by terran since the beginning of time?
That would be a shame.
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On February 24 2012 01:12 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Has any ony actually considered how this is going to effect the TvP matchup? colosis phenix is going to be so powerfull again
Meh.
Colossi Pheonix is a lot worse than colossi in low number + archon templar chargelot. :<
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On February 24 2012 01:12 MulletMurdoc wrote:
Has any ony actually considered how this is going to effect the TvP matchup? colosis phenix is going to be so powerfull again
that strategy only works if both players a-move their armies into each other.
Terran can just make a healthy viking count, focus down the colo 1 at a time and then your ground army just wins. phoenix not so good vs stim marines, no matter how much range they have.
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I wonder why they don't buff zerg units instead of nerf ghosts. But as always Blizzard works in mysterious ways!
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I want to be upset about the ghost nerf, but since Terran pros are the best at this game I can understand P and Z needing help. ;-)
Should be interesting to see more prevalent use of Thors and Ravens anyway.
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Terran has ok early game, good midgame, weak late game, Blizzard solution is to nerf the most important Terran late game unit twice.
Protoss have problem with Mutas, Blizzard solution is to give an upgrade which takes too long to get.
No, to all the posts I see about this being an example of an "amazing patch", this is precisely the opposite.
Why can't they just nerf Terran early/mid game and give us a late game comparable to Protoss and Zerg? This game would be so much more enjoyable to play and watch...
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On February 24 2012 03:18 Scila wrote:
Terran has crazy good early game, good midgame, crazy powerful late game, Blizzard solution is to nerf the most important Terran late game unit twice.
Fixed for accuracy concerning players who successfully got promoted from Silver League. I'm no fan of the patch; I think it's a blatant overreaction and hurts Terran dearly in the late game, but to call its late game weak with Ghosts as they were is like calling Infestors inefficient; it's simply as wrong as you can get. Ghosts needed a nerf. This is a fact. Ghosts were nerfed way too hard and the BL->Ultra switch is going to be really hard to deal with now that there's this new pressure to overproduce Vikings. This is also a fact.
And in what universe does Terran have "OK" early game TvZ or TvP? They have the cheapest, most cost-efficient T1/T1.5 units in the game when controlled in any way right.
On February 24 2012 03:18 Scila wrote:
Protoss have problem with Mutas, Blizzard solution is to give an upgrade which takes too long to get.
That's the point. You're not supposed to have an easy solution to a strategy. Mutalisks take intense, eagle-eye control to pull off, which is why they pay so well. Phoenix range is, simply put, the easy way out of having to deal with Mutas. Mutas can be dealt with, given you have great decision-making and control, but this new solution just takes away the challenge. The only way that sounds in any way right is if you create a way for Zergs to punish it. It's a corner you cut. I throw 400 gas away to EZ-counter mutas, you punish me by getting faster late-game while my colossus tech suffers from having spent so much on Phoenixes. It's a game of tradeoffs, and if you want an easy way out, you're going to have to take risks (unless you're early game Terran trolololo).
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On February 24 2012 03:18 Scila wrote:
Terran has ok early game, good midgame, weak late game, Blizzard solution is to nerf the most important Terran late game unit twice.
Protoss have problem with Mutas, Blizzard solution is to give an upgrade which takes too long to get.
No, to all the posts I see about this being an example of an "amazing patch", this is precisely the opposite.
Why can't they just nerf Terran early/mid game and give us a late game comparable to Protoss and Zerg? This game would be so much more enjoyable to play and watch...
As a Protoss player, I'm fine with that. I could see them somehow buffing ravens and/ or battlecruisers to make Terran late game tier three units more viable, but how would they nerf Terran's early game? They would need to nerf bio a decent amount, wouldn't they? How could they do that?
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Probably by nerfing marauders.
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On February 24 2012 04:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:18 Scila wrote:
Terran has ok early game, good midgame, weak late game, Blizzard solution is to nerf the most important Terran late game unit twice.
Protoss have problem with Mutas, Blizzard solution is to give an upgrade which takes too long to get.
No, to all the posts I see about this being an example of an "amazing patch", this is precisely the opposite.
Why can't they just nerf Terran early/mid game and give us a late game comparable to Protoss and Zerg? This game would be so much more enjoyable to play and watch... As a Protoss player, I'm fine with that. I could see them somehow buffing ravens and/ or battlecruisers to make Terran late game tier three units more viable, but how would they nerf Terran's early game? They would need to nerf bio a decent amount, wouldn't they? How could they do that?
Not sure since they can't overnerf it so 6 gate or smt like that is no longer defendable.
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Terrans are going to start making ravens now to deal with broodlords since they cant outrun the missiles, and then they are gonna have to nerf another terran unit, calling it now
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On February 24 2012 04:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:18 Scila wrote:
Terran has ok early game, good midgame, weak late game, Blizzard solution is to nerf the most important Terran late game unit twice.
Protoss have problem with Mutas, Blizzard solution is to give an upgrade which takes too long to get.
No, to all the posts I see about this being an example of an "amazing patch", this is precisely the opposite.
Why can't they just nerf Terran early/mid game and give us a late game comparable to Protoss and Zerg? This game would be so much more enjoyable to play and watch... As a Protoss player, I'm fine with that. I could see them somehow buffing ravens and/ or battlecruisers to make Terran late game tier three units more viable, but how would they nerf Terran's early game? They would need to nerf bio a decent amount, wouldn't they? How could they do that?
ill take a raven buff, but battlecruisers are rediculously boring a-move units and they should stay that way.
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On February 24 2012 04:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:18 Scila wrote:
Terran has ok early game, good midgame, weak late game, Blizzard solution is to nerf the most important Terran late game unit twice.
Protoss have problem with Mutas, Blizzard solution is to give an upgrade which takes too long to get.
No, to all the posts I see about this being an example of an "amazing patch", this is precisely the opposite.
Why can't they just nerf Terran early/mid game and give us a late game comparable to Protoss and Zerg? This game would be so much more enjoyable to play and watch... As a Protoss player, I'm fine with that. I could see them somehow buffing ravens and/ or battlecruisers to make Terran late game tier three units more viable, but how would they nerf Terran's early game? They would need to nerf bio a decent amount, wouldn't they? How could they do that?
There's a ton of ways to nerf bio (damage, range, stim effect, etc) , and then compensate with a buff to later units (like ravens, bcs, Thors, tanks). The real problem is that you would likely also need to adjust the other races, otherwise terran will get rolled by 1/2base all ins.
However Blizzard thinks the game is fine so they prefer to make small tweaks that don't fix the core issue.
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What I'm uncomfortable with is the lack of feedback from Blizzard to address the concerns or input of experienced progamers, who are pretty much undeniably in the best position to make balance calls, from a competitive perspective. Pardon my cynicism, but what I think this tendency of Blizzard to repeatedly ignore the legitimate concerns of the community, not simply within the sphere of balance, but also within the areas of UI , unit behavior, mapmaking etc., boils down to is pride. I don't think these game designers want to admit that, in many aspects of the game, they screwed up. Few people would admit they have no idea what they are doing, and I won't be the first to say that Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing. I'm not saying they are incompetent, they did make the game after all, they are simply (and unfortunately, purposefully) ignorant, as well as stubborn.
Of course financial concerns could also be a motive in their frequently bizarre decisions.. But I think it's pride that's often more so the culprit...
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On February 23 2012 20:36 Avean wrote:
I am really having a hard time seeing the point with this patch for protoss.
An +2 upgrade in range that requires you to spend 350/200 and then 150/150 to tech it ?
While terran players have vikings that are +9 in range by default ................ I can see that we cant have the same range as Vikings cause they are alot slower, BUT why on earth do we need to build a fleet beacon for this ? Its not like carriers are going to be more used, or mothership 400/400 in an midgame situation. I am baffled ........
Nvm I fail at reading.
But as posters above me already stated, you would kill muta in pvz.
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EPT
