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On February 14 2012 15:28 Gorlin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:18 Proko wrote:
I think 2012 is the year where we see big SC2 cutbacks, growth and revenue are not keeping up with spending.
I would love to pay for MLG's arena, but 20$ is just too high. "Esports is gunna have a withdrawal this year. I will respond by helping that happen." I'm baffled. I agree with Alex that the price is probably too high, but for what they are doing (paying for every player's trip, good sized prize pool, probably amazing production), come on. If you want to see the scene to actually become something, put in some damn effort and actually invest in what you love. If you don't love it, then you don't deserve it anyway.
I think they don't have to pay for all the players lol, why'd they do that anyway? If the players wanna compete, then risk and pay for themselves.
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The expenses are going directly to the players as I've said three times now, which is unnecessary because there is no fan interaction.
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I'm a gold member, since the day they launched it and I'm also going to pay the $20. But Alex is right, Sundance. Gold members probably should get some increased value system. Some of the anger seen here and on twitter is understandable, but a lot of you are really not justified in what you're saying. Wake up and realise that a business needs to be profitable to work.
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On February 14 2012 16:07 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:00 tdt wrote:
I doubt I'd even pay $10. It's a terrible value proposition compared to what's out there. And my charity is reserved for those less fortunate. It's kinda sad people in business even asking for it. i agree. The only ones getting money for SC2 are GSL and Homestory Cup. Paying 20 bucks for an event held in the US at crazy times (for EU) ist just pathetic. I might watch 1-4 games max, which would be 5 dollars for 1 BO3. hahahaha forget it. gg no re.
Exactly, HSC and GSL both offer a 'killer app' worth paying for. So far, most tournaments, ho hum invite players, play games, hope we can collect a check. You won't.
Takes more than that to succeed in business. probably why 90% fail.
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What a good fucking write up, damn...
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They need to offer a product with a unique price. i.e Gold membership for XYZ dollar for all events.
And it have to be competitive with other tournaments (ex:GSL)
Annoucing a PPV 11days before the event is just stupid...
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On February 14 2012 16:15 Jarree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:11 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just to put some things in perspective, I did a little digging back, and there was NOTHING that would lead anyone to believe MLG's Winter Arena was NOT part of the "2012 Pro Circuit" In this interview, the MLG Winter Arena Online Qualifiers, MLG Winter Arena, and MLG Winter Championship are all referred to as part of the 2012 Pro Circuit. In all previous mentions of the Winter Arena (bar the initial mention of prize pools being separate from the Championship Events) no differentiation was made between the Winter Arena and Winter Championship as far as the Pro Circuit is concerned. I think MLG should have announced this either: a) With the announcement of the new 2012 Pro Circuit [and Arenas, since apparently they are not part of the Pro Circuit] or b) With the re-vamp of the MLG Subscription Program. Everything about this just screams "exploitation through misinformation" in my mind. Well guess how many gold memberships they would have sold if everyone knew? Not many. There's ways to do business, let's see how this goes.
There's a reason "bait and switch" exists as fraud in the business world: To prevent companies from doing things very similar to what MLG did.
They (in order):
Renew all Silver and Gold recurring subscriptions
Notify users that Silver Memberships are going away, and for SC2 on the 2012 Pro Circuit you will need a Gold Pass
Remove MLG Arena Events from the 2012 Pro Circuit*
Institute $20 "Pay Per Event" (It's not really Pay Per View) for Arena Series.
*The only grounds that keep this from being textbook "bait and switch" fraud is that it's hard to determine whether or not MLG Arenas were designed to be part of the 2012 Pro Circuit, however all evidence points to the fact that it was implied to be included, and then later rescinded. Sundance's Tweets (to be taken with a grain of salt) hint that this was also drafted up after the 2012 Season announcements.
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E) Restreams, fuck the police.
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Personally I love watching starcraft more then any other form of entertainment. I will get more enjoyment spending $20 on MLG weekend then going to see a movie or buying a CD. I can think of very few things that I could spend $20 on and get the same level of entertainment and enjoyment from that money. Also it is a great way to get barcrafts and friends together to watch somthing awesome.
Would I pay $50 dollars to watch UFC? Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. If I like the matchups and the fighters in an event I sure will (normally split the cost with friends) and I don't buy it when I feel the value for me personaly isn't there, whether it be bad matchups or other issues. But thats just my two cents.
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On February 14 2012 15:49 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:47 Whiteman103 wrote:On February 14 2012 15:36 ilbh wrote:
if I understood correctly, there will be a free stream. isnt it? no there will not be a free stream for the winter area. One thing i'm not sure about is what alex ment by this "I wish (for a variety of reasons) that MLG would take a freemium approach (i.e., free low-quality stream, PPV high-quality stream) to their Arena events, just as they’ll do for their Championship events." The Winter Arena (and all subsequent Arena Events) will be Pay Per View. The Championship Events (akin to last year's MLG Pro Circuit Events) will still feature a "freemium" (Free LQ, Paid HQ) format.
oh so from what i understand the Areas are just the players no audience lan. and the championship events are like last years MLGs one for each seasons(winter,spring,fall, and summer) will there be a 5th grand finale event?
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On February 14 2012 16:14 SC2.PiXL wrote:Show nested quote +This also means that production costs should be way lower, which is just another argument as to why this is too expensive. But if this is better, shouldn't people pay for better production...??? **Just a thought, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing btw:D**
Yeah, I would be willing to pay for better production. 5$ -10$ maximum for the first year, and if they blow my socks off then maybe more.
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On February 14 2012 16:02 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:56 FXOpen wrote:
For once I agree with everything that Alex has said about MLG.
However, the referral system mentioned at the beginning is not good and I think that some sort of open forum needs to be had in devising an adequate method of revenue sharing.
But yes... One of the issues being that MLG's content hasnt bee previewed for the Arena is one thing that makes me think negatively about the $20.. But for me I will spend the $20 and then if it turns out not to be worth $20 I will /whine all over the internet.
Alex is better at writing than I am, but he has hit some points I've been making right on the head.
Nice post! A rarity indeed. There is one thing I don't agree with however. I would never pay for something and voice my concerns after the fact because once you paid. You paid.
MLG have put out entertaining products before. Their circuit is great minus the down time between games. But the Arena model is much easier for thme to ease this pain. If this downtime occurs, I will be at MLG Arena, and I will get my $20 back by pick pocketing sundance if I have to. There is no excuse with this format to have downtime between games longer than 5-10 minutes.
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While a respected team manager's email has great potential to influence MLG, I kinda doubt an email from just some average viewer like me would even be read. Anyway, I had no pitchforks - it's MLG's choice what to do and how to do it; if they really see that they make more money with this strategy, fine with me, even if I don't watch their events.
What I think though, is that they might lose a large number of keen fans who follow their stuff - and still get enough profit to justify that, from the fewer people who will pay. This would be fine for them in terms of profit, but I think MLG's biggest strength so far was the great audience that defined them, and they might lose it.
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On February 14 2012 16:14 Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:08 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:05 a9arnn wrote:Well the arena isn't a Pro Circuit event, it's an offline qualifier of sorts to precede the main event of Cbus (Seeing as the event's not open to the public/etc.). This is incorrect. Check my last post above. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/the-first-details-about-the-mlg-2012-pro-circuit"The 2012 MLG Pro Circuit will be made up of four distinct Seasons, each with their own Live Championship Event." The four season represent the 2012 Pro Circuit. And the winter Qualifiers are part of the season, and thus part of the Circuit. MLG would not have changed their language regarding what Gold Members recieve had this not been the case. Even if this is true encouraging people to chargeback is going to do more harm than good most likely. If a large volume of chargebacks occur on a vendor then the bank they are with is levied fines due to being associated with that vendor. The bank then usually passes those directly on to the vendor including in some cases adding a fine per chargeback that occurs afterwards. Basically if people do what you are proposing it is more likely to directly harm MLG than it is to make them change their mind on the pricing. How about you give them time to respond to feedback first?
Alright guys, let me make it simple for you:
Look at the Logo for the Winter Arena and tell me it isn't part of the Pro Circuit:
![[image loading]](http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9915/mlgfs.jpg)
It is not hard to determine whether or not the Arena is part of the Pro Circuit!
http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/
I recommend you dispute the charge with your Credit Card company as outlined in an earlier post if you paid for a Gold or Silver membership.
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On February 14 2012 16:20 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:15 Jarree wrote:On February 14 2012 16:11 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just to put some things in perspective, I did a little digging back, and there was NOTHING that would lead anyone to believe MLG's Winter Arena was NOT part of the "2012 Pro Circuit" In this interview, the MLG Winter Arena Online Qualifiers, MLG Winter Arena, and MLG Winter Championship are all referred to as part of the 2012 Pro Circuit. In all previous mentions of the Winter Arena (bar the initial mention of prize pools being separate from the Championship Events) no differentiation was made between the Winter Arena and Winter Championship as far as the Pro Circuit is concerned. I think MLG should have announced this either: a) With the announcement of the new 2012 Pro Circuit [and Arenas, since apparently they are not part of the Pro Circuit] or b) With the re-vamp of the MLG Subscription Program. Everything about this just screams "exploitation through misinformation" in my mind. Well guess how many gold memberships they would have sold if everyone knew? Not many. There's ways to do business, let's see how this goes. There's a reason "bait and switch" exists as fraud in the business world: To prevent companies from doing things very similar to what MLG did. They (in order): Renew all Silver and Gold recurring subscriptions Notify users that Silver Memberships are going away, and for SC2 on the 2012 Pro Circuit you will need a Gold Pass Remove MLG Arena Events from the 2012 Pro Circuit* Institute $20 "Pay Per Event" (It's not really Pay Per View) for Arena Series. *The only grounds that keep this from being textbook "bait and switch" fraud is that it's hard to determine whether or not MLG Arenas were designed to be part of the 2012 Pro Circuit, however all evidence points to the fact that it was implied to be included, and then later rescinded. Sundance's Tweets (to be taken with a grain of salt) hint that this was also drafted up after the 2012 Season announcements.
Yeah I hear you. But i'm pretty sure what they are doing is legal or at least there is enough deniability. Being an asshole isn't a crime and nobody is going to sue them for this. It's up to customers to decide who they want to support. We'll see how this works out.
edit: ok seeing that screenshot from Bronzeknee... that is really fucked up not "being a part of pro circuit". Not sure about legal even anymore.
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On February 14 2012 15:55 hoby2000 wrote:
Remember that one time when everyone hated you Alex? Man, those were good times.
Amen! 
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They made subscribtion for MLG so I bought it thinking "now I have access to everything with one payment model".
Then another event comes along from MLG and this time they want PPV.
Now, I don't mind giving them money. But this attitude just pisses me off. I SUBSCRIBE for crying outloud not to have to think about individual pricings in same organization. Just give a package deal to your subscribers but stop with adding PPV/ pay once/ pay for weekend.
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I like the way mlg thinks, but I don't like that its not included if you're a gold member.
I will buy it since 20 is not that much to me, but they should be careful when doing stuff like this. There main consumers are people from 15-30, a group that normally don't have a big budget. I hope as many people will buy it tho, would really suck if mlg shuts these arena events down.
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I'm not an EG fan but you, mr Garfield, are the best. Nice post.
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On February 14 2012 16:24 Jarree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:20 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 14 2012 16:15 Jarree wrote:On February 14 2012 16:11 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just to put some things in perspective, I did a little digging back, and there was NOTHING that would lead anyone to believe MLG's Winter Arena was NOT part of the "2012 Pro Circuit" In this interview, the MLG Winter Arena Online Qualifiers, MLG Winter Arena, and MLG Winter Championship are all referred to as part of the 2012 Pro Circuit. In all previous mentions of the Winter Arena (bar the initial mention of prize pools being separate from the Championship Events) no differentiation was made between the Winter Arena and Winter Championship as far as the Pro Circuit is concerned. I think MLG should have announced this either: a) With the announcement of the new 2012 Pro Circuit [and Arenas, since apparently they are not part of the Pro Circuit] or b) With the re-vamp of the MLG Subscription Program. Everything about this just screams "exploitation through misinformation" in my mind. Well guess how many gold memberships they would have sold if everyone knew? Not many. There's ways to do business, let's see how this goes. There's a reason "bait and switch" exists as fraud in the business world: To prevent companies from doing things very similar to what MLG did. They (in order): Renew all Silver and Gold recurring subscriptions Notify users that Silver Memberships are going away, and for SC2 on the 2012 Pro Circuit you will need a Gold Pass Remove MLG Arena Events from the 2012 Pro Circuit* Institute $20 "Pay Per Event" (It's not really Pay Per View) for Arena Series. *The only grounds that keep this from being textbook "bait and switch" fraud is that it's hard to determine whether or not MLG Arenas were designed to be part of the 2012 Pro Circuit, however all evidence points to the fact that it was implied to be included, and then later rescinded. Sundance's Tweets (to be taken with a grain of salt) hint that this was also drafted up after the 2012 Season announcements. Yeah I hear you. But i'm pretty sure what they are doing is legal or at least there is enough deniability. Being an asshole isn't a crime and nobody is going to sue them for this. It's up to customers to decide who they want to support. We'll see how this works out.
Their current way of advertising the Winter Arena makes it pretty clear that, if not intended to be part of the 2012 Pro Circuit as advertised, this was used to "fraud" customers into spending extra money towards MLG.
![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7641/wintercircuit.png)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/mlgfs.jpg/)
