EPTI will never pay $20 to watch a tournament that is lower tier than the GSL. Espesially since it is over a 3 day period the overall level of player will be lower just due to the fact that there is no time for player/race-specific practice among players.
Put down the pitchforks, or lower them, at least. - Page 8
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
I will never pay $20 to watch a tournament that is lower tier than the GSL. Espesially since it is over a 3 day period the overall level of player will be lower just due to the fact that there is no time for player/race-specific practice among players. | ||
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spidercrumbs
United States23 Posts
I absolutely won't be spending the $20. It's too much. I would spend $10. I say this having spent money on SC2 events before. I bought a Silver subscription for MLGs last year and I bought an annual GSL pass for 2012. I'll likely go to a barcraft to watch some MLG, but it's a shame because I'll end up watching maybe a 1/3 of the MLG content I would have at home at a $10 price point. | ||
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YMCApylons
Taiwan359 Posts
The price point to match is the GSL season ticket. MLG Arena doesn't even come close. If you want to watch Nestea, DRG, Leenock and company competing in high-stakes games, it doesn't get any higher than Code S. If I want to watch NA/EU players get face-smashed by Koreans, I can watch the foreigner seeds into Code S. The idea that MLG could get away with $20 for a three-day event is ridiculous. And before people start talking about movies or boxing, MLG is not a $200 million movie. Or a boxing championship between two guys who fight three times a year. It will be 32 guys who play dozens of tournaments a year. At best, you can compare MLG to the Australian Open or Wimbledon. And guess what? I can watch that for free. MLG has held some well-run tournaments, but there's plenty of competition. Dreamhack, IEM, IPL, NASL, Homestory Cup - each with their own production costs and quality level. We'll find out just how much people think MLG is worth. This whole "supporting e-sports" thing is just thinly-veiled entitlement. You're not saving babies or curing cancer here. You are fighting for the entertainment dollar. So compete on value. ESV just showed a massive quantity of Code-A-level SC2 matches, today. Four free HD streams, with VOD archival. Why? Because they can. Because running an online tournament and casting from replays is extremely cheap. If that's the level of SC2 that is sustainable, that's just fine with me. Maybe that's the smart business model. If it's between $20 for MLG Arena, or ESV Grand Prix + $20 for something else, ESV wins. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On February 14 2012 16:38 Raelcun wrote: Let me use simple words so you can understand. Encouraging chargebacks in large volumes to MLG will only result in them paying fines if successful. Do you honestly think trying to harm MLG financially will get them to reduce prices or give out discounts you believe that they are shorting you? This is not about if the Arena is part of the pro circuit, your idea is just bad. Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. | ||
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
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Iamportal
United States184 Posts
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Bart
494 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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skootz
United States1 Post
With that said, as a former hardcore competitive gamer, and now a casual observer, I bought the Gold membership for precisely things like this. When I heard that they were going to this format, I automatically assumed that the "Arena" part of the season would probably be something that was only available to Gold/Silver members, or something of the sort. As it is now, owning a Gold membership (for a casual observer of eSports like myself) seems useless outside of the slight perks you get for live events (HD, no ads). I completely agree with paying for things like this, and getting perks by doing so, but I don't know if $20 for each Arena is the right price. The plans I thought might happen with this are: A) Gold/Silver memberships (or just Gold) are made a little more expensive, to include the Arena phase, as well as the other perks for live events, and the online perks as well. The Arena would ONLY be available to Gold members, unlike live events. B) There would be a new type of membership to allow for a season pass for all live streaming (Arena, Live event, Online events like Global Invitational, etc.) like a "Platinum" on top of the Gold/Silver. Basically, I think there should be a way this all can be bundled together, whether you buy a single Arena pass for the year (if the price stays at like $20, then you can pay $50-60 for the whole season, assuming there will be one for each season, equaling 4 of them). Or, the Arena can come at a discount like before. The problem is that the Gold/Silver packages were made before this type of season format was created, but I don't see why there can't be an upgrade of some sort. The people that bought those, are now seeing themselves on the outside having to pay even MORE money, after they have already put some forward to support the league. I look at it the way ESPN does their Gameplan package for college football. The package is around $115 for the season (12-13 weeks or so of games), but $29.99 for one Saturday. When I want to watch my team play if they are on it, it's $30 to do so, but if I bought the package at the beginning of the year, it's less than $10 a weekend. So why can't the people who either pay the money for the Gold membership, or would pay in bulk, get these at a discount, or just included? I pay the $30 a year for the Gold membership because I casually watch every live event, but know that the HD and ad free stream is always there for me, and that includes all the games too, not just SC2. As a casual observer, I'm not going to spend $20 more per Arena on top of that. | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I only have so much money to allocate to SC2, and unfortunately GSL will always, ALWAYS be the priority for me and many people. Either MLG need to restructure their pricing system, or offer content that can rival better tournaments. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
Very nice read and I agree with a lot of it. I think me and my friend (who has a MLG gold pass btw) will end up splitting the cost and watching it together. I recommend this option to others too! Watch it with your friends!!! | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
This needed to happen sooner or later as well, if only to make the point to the community that, despite the production fireworks of last year, very very few entities in esports make enough money to stay afloat for the long term, and that this year is probably going to be one in which the tournament schedule gets a little thinner, but hopefully more nimble and stronger in the long run. We'll see. Stuff is interesting. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On February 14 2012 16:45 FXOpen wrote: Charging back for a product you will receive is also fraud... If you look at the advertising though, they're definitely not receiving the product they purchased. That seems very clear given the huge "MLG Pro Circuit: Winter Arena" ads. | ||
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Bartiemus
New Zealand84 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 14 2012 16:44 VirgilSC2 wrote: Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. This BronzeKnee guy routinely posts things that lack sense. =/ I remember his name because of his poor posts | ||
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esotericc
449 Posts
That still holds. They wanted to know how many people they could sucker into buying Gold. Now they know (ie. a lot), so they're trying something else. I feel this holds extremely true, the more I think about the the more I think sundance has no interest in growing esports and is just interested in his own bottom line. While this is true for most business, esports is not in a place right now that you can have this mindset, you have to take the punches and not make tons of money because it's just not mature enough. Thinking back to some of sundances tweets etc, it almost feels like he was just saying whatever he could to create an influx of support to get gold members. Remember when he hinted at talking to TV stations about Sc2 and then absolutely nothing came after that, in retrospect just seems like a plug to garner support. | ||
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YMCApylons
Taiwan359 Posts
On February 14 2012 16:44 VirgilSC2 wrote: Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. Agreed. At face value this is well-within the boundaries of a legally-disputable claim. The question is if "HD Pro Circuit Streams" was ever more precisely defined. Can anyone with a MLG Gold Membership post up the relevant Terms & Agreements that were probably given to you as were purchasing the Gold Pass? It might have been linked in the "receipt" email you would have gotten. If MLG reserved the right to redefine which streams would be offered under the Gold Membership, than you're screwed, because you bought nothing - you should have read the fine print. But if MLG said that Gold Membership entitles you to HD Pro Circuit Streams, than you can go to court, and ask the court to find that MLG Arena falls under that category. The other approach is to show that the advertisements and promotional materials used for the Gold Membership are false and misleading, when compared with what the terms of the Gold Membership actually are. In either case, you might not win, but class-action lawsuits have been won with much less. Using credit-card chargebacks is probably not a good idea. I'm not clear on how credit-card companies handle this type of dispute, but as you are in a legal grey-area, at best, tread carefully. For a few isolated cases, like here, it is likely that the credit card company would simply eat the charge, and put a little note next to your account. Keep that pitchfork up. | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
I'm sorry, but being angry and raising pitchfork has its time and place. If the time and place is NOT a now when MLG suddenly going PPV or dark 10 days before a tournament, then I don't know when is. What percentage of MLG's revenue goes to the players? Is it nearly enough? I'd love to hear your opinions on that Alex.... because its my view that SC2 players are struggling far worse than MLG is. Why give $20 to MLG when only 1 or 2 of that will make its way to the players? Maybe its good for MLG, but they've been stingly with prize money and now they're going to be stingy with their stream..... why should we continue to support them? We should support TotalBiscuit... that guy is a champ for the players and has a wonderful model with his Shoutcraft event. Give him $20! | ||
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