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Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On February 14 2012 17:08 YMCApylons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 14 2012 16:38 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:24 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:14 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:08 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:05 a9arnn wrote:Well the arena isn't a Pro Circuit event, it's an offline qualifier of sorts to precede the main event of Cbus (Seeing as the event's not open to the public/etc.). This is incorrect. Check my last post above. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/the-first-details-about-the-mlg-2012-pro-circuit"The 2012 MLG Pro Circuit will be made up of four distinct Seasons, each with their own Live Championship Event." The four season represent the 2012 Pro Circuit. And the winter Qualifiers are part of the season, and thus part of the Circuit. MLG would not have changed their language regarding what Gold Members recieve had this not been the case. Even if this is true encouraging people to chargeback is going to do more harm than good most likely. If a large volume of chargebacks occur on a vendor then the bank they are with is levied fines due to being associated with that vendor. The bank then usually passes those directly on to the vendor including in some cases adding a fine per chargeback that occurs afterwards. Basically if people do what you are proposing it is more likely to directly harm MLG than it is to make them change their mind on the pricing. How about you give them time to respond to feedback first? Alright guys, let me make it simple for you: Look at the Logo for the Winter Arena and tell me it isn't part of the Pro Circuit:![[image loading]](http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9915/mlgfs.jpg) It is not hard to determine whether or not the Arena is part of the Pro Circuit! http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/I recommend you dispute the charge with your Credit Card company as outlined in an earlier post if you paid for a Gold or Silver membership. Let me use simple words so you can understand. Encouraging chargebacks in large volumes to MLG will only result in them paying fines if successful. Do you honestly think trying to harm MLG financially will get them to reduce prices or give out discounts you believe that they are shorting you? This is not about if the Arena is part of the pro circuit, your idea is just bad. Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. Agreed. At face value this is well-within the boundaries of a legally-disputable claim. The question is if "HD Pro Circuit Streams" was ever more precisely defined. Can anyone with a MLG Gold Membership post up the relevant Terms & Agreements that were probably given to you as were purchasing the Gold Pass? It might have been linked in the "receipt" email you would have gotten. If MLG reserved the right to redefine which streams would be offered under the Gold Membership, than you're screwed, because you bought nothing - you should have read the fine print. But if MLG said that Gold Membership entitles you to HD Pro Circuit Streams, than you can go to court, and ask the court to find that MLG Arena falls under that category. The other approach is to show that the advertisements and promotional materials used for the Gold Membership are false and misleading, when compared with what the terms of the Gold Membership actually are. In either case, you might not win, but class-action lawsuits have been won with much less. Using credit-card chargebacks is probably not a good idea. I'm not clear on how credit-card companies handle this type of dispute, but as you are in a legal grey-area, at best, tread carefully. For a few isolated cases, like here, it is likely that the credit card company would simply eat the charge, and put a little note next to your account. Keep that pitchfork up.
$10 says nobody is going to take MLG to court to dispute their gold pass rights.
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PPV does have its merit but starting at $20 is retarded. Start at $5 (Alex thinking $10 isn't unrealistic but to build support and numbers $5, I believe, will stimulate the growth better) and see how its received and raise the price for the next event if demand is off the hook. To go from a free stream to $20 seems greedy and naive. The scene has to grow and mature and I see PPV as a genuine part of the process but solid baby step growth is better in the long run for both MLG and the wider SC2 tournament scene. I don't see value in the offer as GSL is still free and its the best of the best still...
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On February 14 2012 17:02 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 14 2012 16:38 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:24 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:14 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:08 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:05 a9arnn wrote:Well the arena isn't a Pro Circuit event, it's an offline qualifier of sorts to precede the main event of Cbus (Seeing as the event's not open to the public/etc.). This is incorrect. Check my last post above. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/the-first-details-about-the-mlg-2012-pro-circuit"The 2012 MLG Pro Circuit will be made up of four distinct Seasons, each with their own Live Championship Event." The four season represent the 2012 Pro Circuit. And the winter Qualifiers are part of the season, and thus part of the Circuit. MLG would not have changed their language regarding what Gold Members recieve had this not been the case. Even if this is true encouraging people to chargeback is going to do more harm than good most likely. If a large volume of chargebacks occur on a vendor then the bank they are with is levied fines due to being associated with that vendor. The bank then usually passes those directly on to the vendor including in some cases adding a fine per chargeback that occurs afterwards. Basically if people do what you are proposing it is more likely to directly harm MLG than it is to make them change their mind on the pricing. How about you give them time to respond to feedback first? Alright guys, let me make it simple for you: Look at the Logo for the Winter Arena and tell me it isn't part of the Pro Circuit:It is not hard to determine whether or not the Arena is part of the Pro Circuit! http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/I recommend you dispute the charge with your Credit Card company as outlined in an earlier post if you paid for a Gold or Silver membership. Let me use simple words so you can understand. Encouraging chargebacks in large volumes to MLG will only result in them paying fines if successful. Do you honestly think trying to harm MLG financially will get them to reduce prices or give out discounts you believe that they are shorting you? This is not about if the Arena is part of the pro circuit, your idea is just bad. Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. This BronzeKnee guy routinely posts things that lack sense. =/ I remember his name because of his poor posts
Funny I his name rings the exact same bell lol. Anyway back on topic, I think the price is too high, but I see no point in through Molotov cocktails at MLG. Just don't buy the pass, and the message will be clear. They know how to count the revenue coming in you know, if they fall short of expectations, then things will be changed, why people are demanding this and that from them is beyond me. However, how Winter Circuit is advertised on the website really implies it should be apart of the Pro Circuit, and therefore included in Gold pass.
From a business standpoint, adding the PPV model on top of the already functioning subscription model is really confusing for the consumers. To avoid this drama, they should have made an announcement about changes several tournaments in advance, so they could at least prepare and people won't cry such a huge shit storm on a nearby tourney. It just woulda been smart of MLG. I believe they should have for this one tournament or two, allow Gold members the tourney for free, then eventually phase in a PPV model to avoid really irking a loyal and fresh customer base that they are trying to hook for the long term.
No new business would ever want to irk their potential customers before their business model is even viable. Businesses usually turn on their customers after they have locked in loyal customers, then they turn on em, it's how it's done in the real world. =D
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On February 14 2012 15:07 ottersareneat wrote:
What do you think of the $20 price point?
I think it’s too high - especially within the context of how other SC2 content providers’ packages are priced. I think that the weekend should cost $10. I think MLG would actually make more money with a $10 price tag for the weekend pass, because I think they’d get more than twice the subscribers at $10 than they’ll get at $20. But that may be just me.
It's not just you... I'm one of those people who would pay $10, but won't pay 20 and I absolutely believe that they'd get more than twice the subscribers at $10.
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This comes from the terms of service.
"MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT, AT ANY TIME, TO CHANGE ITS FEES AND BILLING METHODS, INCLUDING THE ADDITION OF SUPPLEMENTAL FEES OR SEPARATE CHARGES FOR CONTENT OR SERVICES PROVIDED BY MLG, EFFECTIVE THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER ONLINE POSTING AND EMAIL NOTIFICATION. If any such change is unacceptable to you, you may terminate your MEMBERSHIP, as provided below. YOUR CONTINUED USE OF THE MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF A CHANGE TO SUCH FEES AND BILLING METHODS SHALL CONSTITUTE YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH CHANGE."
If I understand this right, then they are doing this within 30 days of the event, and therefore going against the terms of service. Doesn't that mean that Gold members should either get a refund, or get access to at least the Winter Arena?
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On February 14 2012 17:08 YMCApylons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 14 2012 16:38 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:24 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:14 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:08 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:05 a9arnn wrote:Well the arena isn't a Pro Circuit event, it's an offline qualifier of sorts to precede the main event of Cbus (Seeing as the event's not open to the public/etc.). This is incorrect. Check my last post above. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/the-first-details-about-the-mlg-2012-pro-circuit"The 2012 MLG Pro Circuit will be made up of four distinct Seasons, each with their own Live Championship Event." The four season represent the 2012 Pro Circuit. And the winter Qualifiers are part of the season, and thus part of the Circuit. MLG would not have changed their language regarding what Gold Members recieve had this not been the case. Even if this is true encouraging people to chargeback is going to do more harm than good most likely. If a large volume of chargebacks occur on a vendor then the bank they are with is levied fines due to being associated with that vendor. The bank then usually passes those directly on to the vendor including in some cases adding a fine per chargeback that occurs afterwards. Basically if people do what you are proposing it is more likely to directly harm MLG than it is to make them change their mind on the pricing. How about you give them time to respond to feedback first? Alright guys, let me make it simple for you: Look at the Logo for the Winter Arena and tell me it isn't part of the Pro Circuit:It is not hard to determine whether or not the Arena is part of the Pro Circuit! http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/I recommend you dispute the charge with your Credit Card company as outlined in an earlier post if you paid for a Gold or Silver membership. Let me use simple words so you can understand. Encouraging chargebacks in large volumes to MLG will only result in them paying fines if successful. Do you honestly think trying to harm MLG financially will get them to reduce prices or give out discounts you believe that they are shorting you? This is not about if the Arena is part of the pro circuit, your idea is just bad. Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. Agreed. At face value this is well-within the boundaries of a legally-disputable claim. The question is if "HD Pro Circuit Streams" was ever more precisely defined. Can anyone with a MLG Gold Membership post up the relevant Terms & Agreements that were probably given to you as were purchasing the Gold Pass? It might have been linked in the "receipt" email you would have gotten. If MLG reserved the right to redefine which streams would be offered under the Gold Membership, than you're screwed, because you bought nothing - you should have read the fine print. But if MLG said that Gold Membership entitles you to HD Pro Circuit Streams, than you can go to court, and ask the court to find that MLG Arena falls under that category. The other approach is to show that the advertisements and promotional materials used for the Gold Membership are false and misleading, when compared with what the terms of the Gold Membership actually are. In either case, you might not win, but class-action lawsuits have been won with much less. Using credit-card chargebacks is probably not a good idea. I'm not clear on how credit-card companies handle this type of dispute, but as you are in a legal grey-area, at best, tread carefully. For a few isolated cases, like here, it is likely that the credit card company would simply eat the charge, and put a little note next to your account. Keep that pitchfork up.
It should also be noted that their website still advertises that Gold Memberships include Live Pro Circuit Stream in HQ
On February 14 2012 17:16 StrykerSC2 wrote:
This comes from the terms of service.
"MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT, AT ANY TIME, TO CHANGE ITS FEES AND BILLING METHODS, INCLUDING THE ADDITION OF SUPPLEMENTAL FEES OR SEPARATE CHARGES FOR CONTENT OR SERVICES PROVIDED BY MLG, EFFECTIVE THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER ONLINE POSTING AND EMAIL NOTIFICATION. If any such change is unacceptable to you, you may terminate your MEMBERSHIP, as provided below. YOUR CONTINUED USE OF THE MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF A CHANGE TO SUCH FEES AND BILLING METHODS SHALL CONSTITUTE YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH CHANGE."
If I understand this right, then they are doing this within 30 days of the event, and therefore going against the terms of service. Doesn't that mean that Gold members should either get a refund, or get access to at least the Winter Arena?
As far as I'm aware, and from what I can understand, no.
They're saying they have the right to change whatever they want, whenever they want and you have 30 days to get your money back.
EDIT: However, there is a bit that confuses me. It could be that the changes are effective 30 days after the Online Posting and E-Mail notification, which would in this case, be violating that as the event is only 10 days out.
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On February 14 2012 17:12 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 17:08 YMCApylons wrote:On February 14 2012 16:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 14 2012 16:38 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:24 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:14 Raelcun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:08 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 16:05 a9arnn wrote:Well the arena isn't a Pro Circuit event, it's an offline qualifier of sorts to precede the main event of Cbus (Seeing as the event's not open to the public/etc.). This is incorrect. Check my last post above. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/the-first-details-about-the-mlg-2012-pro-circuit"The 2012 MLG Pro Circuit will be made up of four distinct Seasons, each with their own Live Championship Event." The four season represent the 2012 Pro Circuit. And the winter Qualifiers are part of the season, and thus part of the Circuit. MLG would not have changed their language regarding what Gold Members recieve had this not been the case. Even if this is true encouraging people to chargeback is going to do more harm than good most likely. If a large volume of chargebacks occur on a vendor then the bank they are with is levied fines due to being associated with that vendor. The bank then usually passes those directly on to the vendor including in some cases adding a fine per chargeback that occurs afterwards. Basically if people do what you are proposing it is more likely to directly harm MLG than it is to make them change their mind on the pricing. How about you give them time to respond to feedback first? Alright guys, let me make it simple for you: Look at the Logo for the Winter Arena and tell me it isn't part of the Pro Circuit:It is not hard to determine whether or not the Arena is part of the Pro Circuit! http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/I recommend you dispute the charge with your Credit Card company as outlined in an earlier post if you paid for a Gold or Silver membership. Let me use simple words so you can understand. Encouraging chargebacks in large volumes to MLG will only result in them paying fines if successful. Do you honestly think trying to harm MLG financially will get them to reduce prices or give out discounts you believe that they are shorting you? This is not about if the Arena is part of the pro circuit, your idea is just bad. Have to agree with Raelcun here. I'm pretty convinced that what MLG did was, if not fraudulent, extremely close to it. However, processing chargebacks on MLG is not the way to get your voice heard. I'd advise e-mailing their support (much like users, including myself, did after the Silver Renewal) and ask for a refund. That should get the message across to MLG (and hopefully get you your money back) without harming the organization in a huge way. Agreed. At face value this is well-within the boundaries of a legally-disputable claim. The question is if "HD Pro Circuit Streams" was ever more precisely defined. Can anyone with a MLG Gold Membership post up the relevant Terms & Agreements that were probably given to you as were purchasing the Gold Pass? It might have been linked in the "receipt" email you would have gotten. If MLG reserved the right to redefine which streams would be offered under the Gold Membership, than you're screwed, because you bought nothing - you should have read the fine print. But if MLG said that Gold Membership entitles you to HD Pro Circuit Streams, than you can go to court, and ask the court to find that MLG Arena falls under that category. The other approach is to show that the advertisements and promotional materials used for the Gold Membership are false and misleading, when compared with what the terms of the Gold Membership actually are. In either case, you might not win, but class-action lawsuits have been won with much less. Using credit-card chargebacks is probably not a good idea. I'm not clear on how credit-card companies handle this type of dispute, but as you are in a legal grey-area, at best, tread carefully. For a few isolated cases, like here, it is likely that the credit card company would simply eat the charge, and put a little note next to your account. Keep that pitchfork up. $10 says nobody is going to take MLG to court to dispute their gold pass rights.
Ah, but you see, the miracle of the class-action lawsuit is that you only need one lawyer who will, and he doesn't even have to own a gold pass.
It's still unlikely, I agree. But if you review the class-action lawsuits that have actually happened, most of them are unlikely, and many are for fees and amounts below $20. Lots of lawyers desperate for work in the US...
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As mentioned before, I'll pay the 20 if I'm free ALL weekend long (simply not the case for most people) but I definitely feel that the price is too high. 8-10$ would be very reasonable and should see great success.
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Worst thing in the world is that it will probably air for me (eastern european) in the middle of the night. So paying 20$ for something i can only partally see ( I will probaly watch untill i fall into a coma due to no sleep) is kinda shitty. The price is too damn high ( ^_^ ) and I agree that it should be 10$.
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Well they need to make money somehow I guess.
I'll pay the $20 I loved watching MLG last year. I want to help E-sports and SC2 in general grow.
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On February 14 2012 17:16 StrykerSC2 wrote:
This comes from the terms of service.
"MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT, AT ANY TIME, TO CHANGE ITS FEES AND BILLING METHODS, INCLUDING THE ADDITION OF SUPPLEMENTAL FEES OR SEPARATE CHARGES FOR CONTENT OR SERVICES PROVIDED BY MLG, EFFECTIVE THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER ONLINE POSTING AND EMAIL NOTIFICATION. If any such change is unacceptable to you, you may terminate your MEMBERSHIP, as provided below. YOUR CONTINUED USE OF THE MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF A CHANGE TO SUCH FEES AND BILLING METHODS SHALL CONSTITUTE YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH CHANGE."
If I understand this right, then they are doing this within 30 days of the event, and therefore going against the terms of service. Doesn't that mean that Gold members should either get a refund, or get access to at least the Winter Arena?
Without reading the rest of the terms of service, where the term "MEMBERSHIP" is probably defined, this means that MLG obligates itself to tell you, 30 days in advance, of any changes in things like fees or content. You can then terminate your membership, and you would have whatever rights are defined in the terms of service for membership termination. If you retain your membership, after the 30 days, you waive your right to dispute these changes to your membership rights.
In TL:DR, "After we give you e-mail notices of changes, you have 30 days to leave. If you don't leave, you are assumed to be okay with it."
There is no indication that you can get your money back. Whether you can or not is found elsewhere in the terms of service.
(FYI, I have not passed the bar in any state. This is not legal advice.)
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Personally I just don't think SC2 is ready to be PPV only. SC2 is one of those few E-sports that has more viewers than active players and I kind of doubt that many of those viewer-only people will be willing to pay the outrageous prize of 20$ for just one weekend of content.
Looking at my own economy as a poor student I don't know if I will be able to pay it. While this is a bold move by MLG trying to push E-sports forward I'd have to say that free events like Dreamhack and IPL still have better quality and overall production than yours which you more or less allready have to pay for if u don't want to see 4 pixels on the screen. A GSL season for 15$ (which is cheaper) gives you SO much more content with a better production and a real competition instead of koreans owning foreigners (which I love to see too, don't get me wrong).
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EDIT: However, there is a bit that confuses me. It could be that the changes are effective 30 days after the Online Posting and E-Mail notification, which would in this case, be violating that as the event is only 10 days out.
Good catch. The MLG defense would be that MLG Arena never fell under content access rights given to MLG gold members, so notification would be unnecessary, as there was no modification of terms of service. Your claim would be that it did.
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Like I posted in the main thread, I'm really struggling to come up with reasons why I should "support" this.
For me it's not so much about if they ask for $5 or $20, at least not right now. After reading this thread and replies in the main thread it feels like it's almost completely about the possibility of supporting something that goes against my own interests. And my interests are not necessarily same as Alex's or MLG's.
Do I for example care most about the huge tournaments themselves like MGL, or even GSL? I think I have to answer no to that.
What I do care about is that more people get into competitive sc2. Why?
Partially I don't know but one reason is that I want foreign players to be competitive with Koreans. And I can't see that happening without a larger talent pool since it's an important area where the foreign scene is not at a disadvantage.
So why do I care about foreign players? Well without foreign players doing well, sc2 as an sport probably wont attract many outside Korea, which I assume would make it end up like BW.
Would that be good for the "scene", or for example EG or even MLG? For me personally, one big reason I don't want it to end up like BW is that I normally can't even watch Korean live streams because of time zone differences. So I don't think I'm even at the point where I think about if the product is worth it, because in my mind it seems like the model is detrimental for what I care about. Which is quite far from having the opinion that I should buy it to "support esports".
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Man Gold members should AT LEAST get some kind of discount.
As for me, not going to pay. There's already so much starcraft content as it is.
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On February 14 2012 16:16 Jonneh wrote:
I'm a gold member, since the day they launched it and I'm also going to pay the $20. But Alex is right, Sundance. Gold members probably should get some increased value system. Some of the anger seen here and on twitter is understandable, but a lot of you are really not justified in what you're saying. Wake up and realise that a business needs to be profitable to work.
"Business needs to be profitable to work" that sounds like a redundant statement to me. A business that is working should be profitable. But step one of having a successful business is having a marketable product, not a fan base. Businesses need to rely on their product's quality, not the good will of the community if they truly want growth and not just survival. If what they are offering is worth it, people will buy it. I think a lot of the outrage is people getting frustrated by MLG and others demanding that people pay for this content when GSL offers an undeniably better deal in every way shape and form for less money. I can completely understand the skeptics. MLG cites a 100000$ expense for the player's travel, there's mistake #1. Obvious mishandling of funds and overhead. If they are spending 100000$ on travel expenses alone then they sure as hell don't want to turn a profit. But what baffles me the most are the people lamenting over the "NA SC2 Scene" as if it even exists. Wake up, the best players are in Korea, the best tournament is in Korea, any NA player decent enough goes to Korea. How is there expected to be a growing SC2 scene in NA when there's hardly any notable professional players? The problem is people would rather spend their money to watch Koreans play over the hometown players because the level of competition is so drastically different. If E-sports truly wants to grow and develop like MLGsundance envisions then there needs to be an influx of funds into growing the scene for the fans. By that I mean more tournaments for the average joe and legitimate leagues for your run of the mill NA player to compete in. SC2 needs exposure. If the numbers are true and the SC2 player base is decreasing over time outside of Korea how is PPV a logical solution?
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Really nice message to the community, thanks for that because there were some things in there, that people needed to hear.
As for me, I understand your point completely but I see 20$ as something terribly overpriced. 8-10$ seems reasonable. I'll go for option B. And if it was another Korean tournament I wouldn't buy it even with that. Because I normally cannot spend my weekends in front of a computer screen (you know, rl? ), some of that money goes to waste. And I have a huge amount of top quality content to watch in the GSL. I don't "need" more.
But will be willing to pay for 8-10$. And I'd be willing to do it because it would be a foreign event. It would be an event that I feel directly needs my support in order to stay alive. It has some of the players I like to watch and cheer for but are below the absolut top level (and I don't have time for searching around small tournaments to find them playing).
Besides from that. The starcraft scene is not developed enough to offer only ppv content. Freemium seems best. We are in dire need of developing and growing. The MLG is a really good time for someone who does not know what SCII is, to have an idea of it's awesomeness. But I cannot possibly convince a friend of mine to have a try at something completely new by paying 20$. It does not allow for spreading the word. There is growth in the viewership. Don't halt it.
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its obvious that MLG purposely overpriced the event at $20, so that when they lower it to $10 people will actually think it's good value, whereas it is STILL overpriced.
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As always, interesting read from the mind of ottersareneat (i mean Alex) .....
Otters are pretty neat.
I won't be paying, I'm not sure I have the time for this event, I like to just watch a few matches, and I am not paying if I am not glued to the screen. Also I feel like there is way too much downtime between games at MLG.
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I'll purchase it for $20 - as I spend that much on food every time I go out for dinner. Also - I get a few friends around to stay the weekend and we watch all the games together on my home theater. I can't complain....
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/mlgfs.jpg/)
