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Put down the pitchforks, or lower them, at least. - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
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daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
February 15 2012 02:54 GMT
#601
20 dollars for a few day spectating event is ludicrous. That's ~2 months of active WoW sub for example. What are the new game titles costing now on launch, then put that 20 on it for a how many hours of spectating exactly? The hour rate is insane, but this is just imo ofc.
honed
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada482 Posts
February 15 2012 03:03 GMT
#602
wheres the "bought, and gladly would for 30" option
d1ngdong
Profile Joined October 2010
United States33 Posts
February 15 2012 03:06 GMT
#603
Here's some more info about the MLG Referral Program, including how much you get from each sale and which teams have declined to participate.

http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/mlg-referral-program-details-and-participation
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3613 Posts
February 15 2012 03:10 GMT
#604
MLG is the only SC2 league I watch on a dedicated basis. Part of it's just practicality: I'm in the US, MLG is one of the few leagues that runs on a schedule I can watch - just set aside the weekend of an event. (Admission: it's not that I mind staying up late or getting up early, but my non-optimum viewing time is still dedicated to Korean BW - Proleague forever!)

I really wasn't expecting MLG to run events with no free option, as it's quite different from anything they've done before. That said, I'm an advocate of shifting to partly or even mainly paid events. On the other hand, for a weekend event I feel like my "break point" is somewhere around $12-$15 - if I see a price drop like that for the next similar thing I'll probably buy it even if I can't watch the games for some reason, just to demonstrate the point.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
lolsil
Profile Joined January 2012
United States37 Posts
February 15 2012 03:12 GMT
#605
i really disagree with PPV only events.
anyone remember the CGS? remember how that turned out?
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
February 15 2012 03:12 GMT
#606
On February 15 2012 12:03 honed wrote:
wheres the "bought, and gladly would for 30" option

Say that after the event is done.
Not to mention the assumption that most people are operating with finite resources. I would gladly pay $1,000,000.00 for this if I only had 10000x that much in discretionary funds. If I had $20 to spend on entertainment, and I had to choose between a single weekend of MLG, and a month of GSL, which would make more sense? MLG must directly compete with higher quality services offering higher quantities of product for the same price. Imagine if Wolfgang Puck was selling large meals for the price of a Big Mac. Would you honestly claim that not only would you purchase the big mac over Puck's food, but you'd also pay more for it?

If you have, for this example, infinite resources, or are so loyal to MLG that you would consider a single weekend of their cast to be worth more than a whole month of the GSL, then by all means, claim that you would pay more.

But like I said, lets wait for the event to happen before we exclaim its greatness.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
February 15 2012 03:17 GMT
#607
I'd buy it if i had time. Most of the time mlg is playing, buying a pass isn't worth it because I'll only see a handful of games. Same for this, I can't watch sc2 at home all weekend
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
-mooski-
Profile Joined January 2012
United States4 Posts
February 15 2012 03:25 GMT
#608
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the 30 pages before me..

$20 is only 2 hours of work. I will happily pick up 2 extra hours to offset the cost of this.
Think of it this way: 2 hours of work for an epic weekend AND making a huge contribution to the development of e-sports?

I find it incredibly hard to imagine that the large majority of SC2 fans cannot find 2-3 hours in the large amount of time between PPV events to make $20. And for the younger viewers who don't have a job? I think it is safe to assume most of you can convince your parents to give you $20 to do some work around the house.

I plan on inviting a few friends over for the weekend to split the cost and make it next to nothing, and make the event even more entertaining to those without a barcraft available to them.

My point? Skip the greasy fast food for a day or two, get off your bum and work for a measly 2 hours, etc. In the grand scheme of things gathering $20 for an amazing event is really not that hard.
TheAssclown
Profile Joined July 2011
United States38 Posts
February 15 2012 03:41 GMT
#609
On February 15 2012 12:25 -mooski- wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the 30 pages before me..

$20 is only 2 hours of work. I will happily pick up 2 extra hours to offset the cost of this.
Think of it this way: 2 hours of work for an epic weekend AND making a huge contribution to the development of e-sports?

I find it incredibly hard to imagine that the large majority of SC2 fans cannot find 2-3 hours in the large amount of time between PPV events to make $20. And for the younger viewers who don't have a job? I think it is safe to assume most of you can convince your parents to give you $20 to do some work around the house.

I plan on inviting a few friends over for the weekend to split the cost and make it next to nothing, and make the event even more entertaining to those without a barcraft available to them.

My point? Skip the greasy fast food for a day or two, get off your bum and work for a measly 2 hours, etc. In the grand scheme of things gathering $20 for an amazing event is really not that hard.


This is just the wrong because people are not asking if MLG is worth a few meals at fast food... its about what the value of the actual event is... Look at this comparing apples to apples and not the way you are looking at this...

What does IPL Charge and is the product they offer just as good?
What does DreamHack Charge and is it as good?
What does Homestory Cup charge and is it as good?
What about the GSL?
Even compare it to MLG... 4 MLG Championship events that mean more then the PPV and its free LQ or all the same things the PPV Offer HQ and more for $30 for all 4 events... thats $7.50 per event... So a Weekend of Starcraft with very good production has already been given a relative market value and $20 per event is just to high...

-mooski-
Profile Joined January 2012
United States4 Posts
February 15 2012 04:35 GMT
#610
On February 15 2012 12:41 TheAssclown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 12:25 -mooski- wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the 30 pages before me..

$20 is only 2 hours of work. I will happily pick up 2 extra hours to offset the cost of this.
Think of it this way: 2 hours of work for an epic weekend AND making a huge contribution to the development of e-sports?

I find it incredibly hard to imagine that the large majority of SC2 fans cannot find 2-3 hours in the large amount of time between PPV events to make $20. And for the younger viewers who don't have a job? I think it is safe to assume most of you can convince your parents to give you $20 to do some work around the house.

I plan on inviting a few friends over for the weekend to split the cost and make it next to nothing, and make the event even more entertaining to those without a barcraft available to them.

My point? Skip the greasy fast food for a day or two, get off your bum and work for a measly 2 hours, etc. In the grand scheme of things gathering $20 for an amazing event is really not that hard.


This is just the wrong because people are not asking if MLG is worth a few meals at fast food... its about what the value of the actual event is... Look at this comparing apples to apples and not the way you are looking at this...

What does IPL Charge and is the product they offer just as good?
What does DreamHack Charge and is it as good?
What does Homestory Cup charge and is it as good?
What about the GSL?
Even compare it to MLG... 4 MLG Championship events that mean more then the PPV and its free LQ or all the same things the PPV Offer HQ and more for $30 for all 4 events... thats $7.50 per event... So a Weekend of Starcraft with very good production has already been given a relative market value and $20 per event is just to high...



Look I'm not thrilled about it, I would rather it be free as well and I do think that $20 is too high. I was simply trying to put $20 in perspective. I will be purchasing a ticket to enjoy the weekend and support e-sports, but I will also be contacting MLG and telling them I will not be purchasing any future tickets unless there is a large reduction in price.
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
February 15 2012 04:38 GMT
#611
I would buy for 10$! 20 is far too much when compared to all the free stuff out there, or the "better" quality things money can buy, like GSL.

Inno pls...
Jedclark
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom903 Posts
February 15 2012 04:40 GMT
#612
I think the PPV model is good, however it should be cheaper. I think SC's main audience would be children/young adults (14-21), they don't have lots of money.
"They make it so scrubnubs can PM me. They make it so I can't ignore scrubnubs!" - "I'm gonna show you how great I am." MKP fan since GSL Open Season 2 #hipsternerd
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
February 15 2012 04:53 GMT
#613
On February 15 2012 12:25 -mooski- wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the 30 pages before me..

$20 is only 2 hours of work. I will happily pick up 2 extra hours to offset the cost of this.
Think of it this way: 2 hours of work for an epic weekend AND making a huge contribution to the development of e-sports?

I find it incredibly hard to imagine that the large majority of SC2 fans cannot find 2-3 hours in the large amount of time between PPV events to make $20. And for the younger viewers who don't have a job? I think it is safe to assume most of you can convince your parents to give you $20 to do some work around the house.

I plan on inviting a few friends over for the weekend to split the cost and make it next to nothing, and make the event even more entertaining to those without a barcraft available to them.

My point? Skip the greasy fast food for a day or two, get off your bum and work for a measly 2 hours, etc. In the grand scheme of things gathering $20 for an amazing event is really not that hard.

Not many people in 150 countries all over the world have the job that pay $10/hour. It's not that people absolutely can't afford $20, I know some kids who are going to spare 1 week of breakfast to get that. But the problem is the precedence. If this event becomes such a successful events, other organizations are going to do that. For all we know, 2 out of 3 tournaments in the future are going to be PPV. I can afford $20 if this kind of tournament only happens once every 2,3 months, not once every 1 or 2 weeks, just can't.

Leysha
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States22 Posts
February 15 2012 04:55 GMT
#614
i approve of the OP and this debate in general. simple fact: a business has to have sustainable income. however MLG figures out how to do it, either they will work through this year and figure out a model and plan that works or else they will not and eventually go away. i don't want MLG to disappear and i don't think very many people here do either. so as many people as are able should absolutely support, even at prices you disapprove of, give feedback, and stick with them through the growing and learning process. we as a community have to support organizations like this even through decisions we don't totally agree with in order to keep this industry growing. otherwise the whole thing will fail.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
February 15 2012 05:03 GMT
#615
On February 15 2012 13:53 canikizu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 12:25 -mooski- wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the 30 pages before me..

$20 is only 2 hours of work. I will happily pick up 2 extra hours to offset the cost of this.
Think of it this way: 2 hours of work for an epic weekend AND making a huge contribution to the development of e-sports?

I find it incredibly hard to imagine that the large majority of SC2 fans cannot find 2-3 hours in the large amount of time between PPV events to make $20. And for the younger viewers who don't have a job? I think it is safe to assume most of you can convince your parents to give you $20 to do some work around the house.

I plan on inviting a few friends over for the weekend to split the cost and make it next to nothing, and make the event even more entertaining to those without a barcraft available to them.

My point? Skip the greasy fast food for a day or two, get off your bum and work for a measly 2 hours, etc. In the grand scheme of things gathering $20 for an amazing event is really not that hard.

Not many people in 150 countries all over the world have the job that pay $10/hour. It's not that people absolutely can't afford $20, I know some kids who are going to spare 1 week of breakfast to get that. But the problem is the precedence. If this event becomes such a successful events, other organizations are going to do that. For all we know, 2 out of 3 tournaments in the future are going to be PPV. I can afford $20 if this kind of tournament only happens once every 2,3 months, not once every 1 or 2 weeks, just can't.


Take it in the other direction. For all we know in the future, the SC2 tournament scene will collapse because they're not making enough money and the sponsors no longer see it as a worthwhile thing to invest in. See what's wrong with just sitting down and saying, "Oh no, what if this is successful, all the tournaments are gonna do it, and then where will our free entertainment be?"

There's nothing wrong with doing a test-run on a bad weekend just to see how much they can get out of the community. Somebody's gotta do it. I'm not paying $20 for various reasons, but I don't fault MLG for doing something like this. (In fact, I applaud them for their balls.)
Thombur
Profile Joined January 2012
95 Posts
February 15 2012 05:44 GMT
#616
On February 15 2012 13:35 -mooski- wrote:
Look I'm not thrilled about it, I would rather it be free as well and I do think that $20 is too high. I was simply trying to put $20 in perspective. I will be purchasing a ticket to enjoy the weekend and support e-sports, but I will also be contacting MLG and telling them I will not be purchasing any future tickets unless there is a large reduction in price.


Right there is the big problem with this event. MLG themselves drag this kind of thinking out of the playerbase by appealing for them to "support e-sports". If this is successful because you accept this price then you accept that all future events will probably cost at least as much, probably more, since the industry will try and milk out as much money as they possibly can (of they will, they run businesses).
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 05:56:37
February 15 2012 05:45 GMT
#617
On February 15 2012 14:03 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 13:53 canikizu wrote:
On February 15 2012 12:25 -mooski- wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the 30 pages before me..

$20 is only 2 hours of work. I will happily pick up 2 extra hours to offset the cost of this.
Think of it this way: 2 hours of work for an epic weekend AND making a huge contribution to the development of e-sports?

I find it incredibly hard to imagine that the large majority of SC2 fans cannot find 2-3 hours in the large amount of time between PPV events to make $20. And for the younger viewers who don't have a job? I think it is safe to assume most of you can convince your parents to give you $20 to do some work around the house.

I plan on inviting a few friends over for the weekend to split the cost and make it next to nothing, and make the event even more entertaining to those without a barcraft available to them.

My point? Skip the greasy fast food for a day or two, get off your bum and work for a measly 2 hours, etc. In the grand scheme of things gathering $20 for an amazing event is really not that hard.

Not many people in 150 countries all over the world have the job that pay $10/hour. It's not that people absolutely can't afford $20, I know some kids who are going to spare 1 week of breakfast to get that. But the problem is the precedence. If this event becomes such a successful events, other organizations are going to do that. For all we know, 2 out of 3 tournaments in the future are going to be PPV. I can afford $20 if this kind of tournament only happens once every 2,3 months, not once every 1 or 2 weeks, just can't.


Take it in the other direction. For all we know in the future, the SC2 tournament scene will collapse because they're not making enough money and the sponsors no longer see it as a worthwhile thing to invest in. See what's wrong with just sitting down and saying, "Oh no, what if this is successful, all the tournaments are gonna do it, and then where will our free entertainment be?"

There's nothing wrong with doing a test-run on a bad weekend just to see how much they can get out of the community. Somebody's gotta do it. I'm not paying $20 for various reasons, but I don't fault MLG for doing something like this. (In fact, I applaud them for their balls.)


There is a significant amount of people (compare the various polls and general responses) that don't fault MLG for trying. MLG is faulted for foreseeable issues within execution, which are namely

1) steep price increase
2) creation of fait accompli

Few people can fathom how MLG could have thought it would be a good idea to introduce such a model exactly how they went about it. From scheduling, announcement, price policy to treatment of existing customers. It's a perfect storm of things that could have been avoided while still transitioning into a new payment structure.

And regarding the industry:

1) The absolute prerequisite to be agreed upon is that consumer dollars are finite. No matter how much you "could have earned more", in the end everybody has a limited budget.
2) A subjective prerequisite for me personally is having absolute freedom of choice. I alone choose what to spend my money on. My decision can be lead by arguments, advertisement, impulse and/or madness. As a consumer, I am accountable to none but myself.
3) While it is true that "to make any money at all" is a serious matter to solve in itself, there is no implication of it having to be MLG. The best model should succeed, nothing more, nothing less. If a model fails it could be simply because it sucked. At the very least, to solely blame either side is short-sighted. In between all the "support esports" appeals, one business should not forget that a market works both ways.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
February 15 2012 05:53 GMT
#618
Since there are a few threads going on about basically the same thing I wanted to post this here too for feedback I guess.

Some random thoughts on the whole situation. Maybe they're silly but maybe they're worth consideration. I'd email them in to MLG as food for thought but I'm not entirely sure where to send them.

What about charging in an a la carte method for those who can't catch the whole weekend? (Numbers are made up, can be changed around obviously) What if they charged say $5 a day and $10 for all 3? If you could only sit down and watch the sunday championship games then you throw down $5 and can still catch your games. Theoretically that's still more money in their pockets than they would get from someone that could only watch a day or 2 and just said "f it".

What about monetizing through barcrafts? Make it a completely opt in situation so some of the smaller "mom and pop" style barcrafts can just pay the $20 and watch their games. But maybe have a "barcraft package" where a larger barcraft can buy in for say $200 (made up, but bars do have to pay a LOT more for PPV packages than the normal consumer in general). For that price maybe MLG sends them a little swag bag for the barcraft to raffle off or whatever. A few T shirts, a sweatshirt, mousepads, whatever. Maybe they throw to a live webcam during a break as well to give them props. Obviously the price point would need to be at a place where MLG makes a profit after giving the barcraft stuff, but still not so much where the barcraft would feel screwed.

I dunno, to me, on paper at least, it seems like those are a few avenues that haven't been looked at that could do well.
LiquidDota Staff
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
February 15 2012 05:54 GMT
#619
I really hope the PPV system makes them a profit. I just won't be adding to it, only partly because I don't have that money.

The people who are diehard about purchasing all the content you're offered, you're setting yourself up to line the pockets of every single future business that sees money in esports. Good for you, I guess, but esports has existed just fine on free-to-watch platforms for over a decade. And those platforms are what I'm going to be watching.
good vibes only
Flamingo777
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1190 Posts
February 15 2012 05:58 GMT
#620
On February 15 2012 14:54 Meta wrote:
I really hope the PPV system makes them a profit. I just won't be adding to it, only partly because I don't have that money.

The people who are diehard about purchasing all the content you're offered, you're setting yourself up to line the pockets of every single future business that sees money in esports. Good for you, I guess, but esports has existed just fine on free-to-watch platforms for over a decade. And those platforms are what I'm going to be watching.

I agree with this, however I hope a reformed system is able to make a profit.

P.S. Thank you Alex, that was a very informative post!
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