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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 13:15 FLuE wrote:
I feel like this is one of those situations where everyone is going to make a big deal of it, and a year from now everyone will be paying the PPV fee and not caring because it will be the norm.
It is just the initial shock of having to pay for what was once free, just like the shock when gas jumped up signficantly. Now everyone pays $3.00+ not even blinking an eye but when it first went up big time everyone freaked out and didn't know how they would live paying that much. People adjusted, just like people will adjust to this.
Uh. I don't know about you but gas ranks a little bit higher on the priorities list than SC2. No one is "shocked" about paying. I've bought 5 dollar tickets to GSL Arena events. My 2 friends and I split a GSL monthly subscription. That is 20 or 25 dollars for all the players I care to watch at MLG and more... for a month. That is the problem. The MLG price looks ridiculous next to GSL and what they offer. I'll gladly put some money into E-sports but being a student means I have a very limited amount of money to do so. GOM simply offers more quality content
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Also, maybe they shouldn't be paying Tasteless and Artosis $50,000 each like they did for Providence if costs are so much of an issue.
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On February 14 2012 13:07 PhoenixDark wrote:
Threads/reactions like this further convince me the Western esports bubble will burst soon. On one hand gamers demand the highest of quality streams, the largest possible prize pools, and the most Koreans available. On the other hand there seems to be absolutely no understanding that all of things cost money and aren't cheap. In the grand scheme of things, a one time $20 payment is not expensive when compared to the risk and costs MLG is taking. But instead of recognizing that people...bitch that the prize pool is too small. Nevermind the $100,000 being spent to bring players to the US. It's laughable.
Considering that the event is not even live for spectators; I do not see the need to spend money on holding an event in NYC where costs are over the roof. I have no problem supporting e-sports but frivolous costs need not be necessarily be added and passed on to the consumers. I am sure the reaction would have been a lot more positive if the cost was $5 instead of $20. For me, the how and why of the price, and how much efficient that price is, is much more important the absolute number of the price.
In addition, the lack of any tiered payment structure really puts me off. Surely, they have 2 additional premium streams with off-stage stuff in it. But, for someone who just wants to watch SC2, it is all bogus esp considering it will be running in parallel with the three tourney streams. And, if it happens that none of the tourney streams have any games going at the same time for an elongated period, then the 20 bucks price point is too high in any case.
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Northern Ireland27335 Posts
On February 14 2012 13:25 puzzl wrote:
Also, maybe they shouldn't be paying Tasteless and Artosis $50,000 each like they did for Providence if costs are so much of an issue.
50k, really? That sounds just too much to be believable, but if that's confirmed I'll go eat my shoes.
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On February 14 2012 13:24 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:20 Charger wrote:On February 14 2012 13:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 14 2012 13:13 onedayclose wrote:
I feel we as a community have an opportunity to ALL NOT spend $20 and go watch Asus ROG Invite for free instead or simply attend a barcraft. We have the chance to SEND A MESSAGE to MLG whether or not we are willing to spend an exorbitant amount of $ for 100% SC2 action. How is it exorbitant for what you can potentially get out of it? A pack of 20 cigarettes in the UK costs about half of the entire weekend ticket, get your head out of your ass and admit you're just tight. Quit being a dick, it's unnecessary. I paid $115 for the year of GSL content, that comes out to less than $10 a month. Now I'm supposed to magically be ok with paying twice the MONTHLY cost of GSL for 2 days of content... Like I've already said, people are free to decide where their money goes but to act like you are towards people who actually care about what they spend money on just isn't acceptable. You use the word exorbitant when it clearly isn't thus. It compares pretty favourably with other PPV events, and very favorably with tickets to the cinema or whatever. The GSL comparison is pretty fair though, personally I prefer the MLG overall just due to the more crammed format, but the likes of Leenock v Jjakji were worth my GSL subscription for sure. The post a few up was a pretty good one, actually I tend to just watch the streams in SD as I think it's perfectly reasonable and too much importance is being placed on production quality which will increase the overhead costs.
That wasn't my post you quoted, I was just responding to what you wrote. I'm not sure the UFC and other PPV comparisons are fair, other than being PPV they are two totally different things. At least GSL compared to MLG is comparing (as close as possible) apples to apples.
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On February 14 2012 13:26 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:25 puzzl wrote:
Also, maybe they shouldn't be paying Tasteless and Artosis $50,000 each like they did for Providence if costs are so much of an issue. 50k, really? That sounds just too much to be believable, but if that's confirmed I'll go eat my shoes.
I'm pretty sure it was $20,000 each... with first class plane tickets as well.
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On February 14 2012 13:25 Devolved wrote:
I just think it's a bit shady to tell people you can buy a Gold membership for full access to their events this season, then they announce there will be these Arena events without any additional pricing info. Most people probably thought the Arena events were included with a full access membership, especially since nothing to the contrary was stated and there was no specific pricing info that released when the Arena events were announced.
I feel that it's an unethical business practice to announce one all-encompassing payment plan then charge additional fees on top of that at the last minute. What they should have done is announced that there will be additional fees for the Arena(s) when they announced the Arena(s). Instead, they waited a month, in which time many people signed up for Gold membership thinking they would have full access to the Arena(s) only to find out they have zero access.
Agree with this 100%. Gold Members should get free access to this, I don't see the reason why
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United States994 Posts
On February 14 2012 13:25 puzzl wrote:
Also, maybe they shouldn't be paying Tasteless and Artosis $50,000 each like they did for Providence if costs are so much of an issue.
Where do you guys this stuff haha. Come on!
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There's no way they got 20k each for just Providence... It was 3 days.
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On February 14 2012 13:04 feanor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:01 DR.Ham wrote:On February 14 2012 12:54 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 12:53 XRaDiiX wrote:On February 14 2012 11:23 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken! Youtube lost billions of dollars for years and has only relatively recently begun to make money for Google. Most football, basketball and baseball teams are losing money, which is why they have revenue sharing from the giants. Television is dying with advertising, media is dying with advertising. And the actual truth is that SC2 is dying with advertising. People have been fed a vision of mainstream ESPORTS for too long, and they don't realize people are just taking loss leaders on a hope that's never going to happen. Even the giants in BW have been falling for years. It's a bubble and a niche, and there will never be a viewership that can sustain an advertising based/free system. Never. The entire system is currently reliant on investors, and you can't keep that up. That doesn't sound true at all considering all the leagues that have sustained theirselves over the past year or so on Free streams. If they were losing more money than making wouldn't they just close up shop? Because they'd be bankrupt? A year or two means absolutely nothing, we've seen this all before. They're not in debt, but they're running a deficit. You keep saying that they are losing money, but where do you get this information? @MLGSundance Show nested quote +I personally (and MLG) have invested more money into the scene than we have earned. By choice. You have a choice as well. Have a good night. Well I believe him. And last year they had tiny prize pools. I don't think MLG was burning a ton of money last year, but they defiantly lost money.
Thanks, I believe him too.
I do think that they have a good idea for a business and need to adjust their cost structures to make it work. I am sure they are investing more than they receive in the short term for and expected long term gain though.
Either way, it will be interesting to see how this experiment works out.
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Online consumers are just used to free stuff one way or another. Online Ads alone are not a functional business model if the goal is to grow and develop. If they quality is there, this is not unreasonable.
If its not free people whine.
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On February 14 2012 13:25 puzzl wrote:
Also, maybe they shouldn't be paying Tasteless and Artosis $50,000 each like they did for Providence if costs are so much of an issue.
This number came from where? Perhaps it's not the wisest thing to pull random numbers out of your ass. This number isn't realistic at all. If casters got paid this much, every pro in SC2 would try to due casting full time instead of playing.
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Northern Ireland27335 Posts
On February 14 2012 13:27 Charger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:24 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 14 2012 13:20 Charger wrote:On February 14 2012 13:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 14 2012 13:13 onedayclose wrote:
I feel we as a community have an opportunity to ALL NOT spend $20 and go watch Asus ROG Invite for free instead or simply attend a barcraft. We have the chance to SEND A MESSAGE to MLG whether or not we are willing to spend an exorbitant amount of $ for 100% SC2 action. How is it exorbitant for what you can potentially get out of it? A pack of 20 cigarettes in the UK costs about half of the entire weekend ticket, get your head out of your ass and admit you're just tight. Quit being a dick, it's unnecessary. I paid $115 for the year of GSL content, that comes out to less than $10 a month. Now I'm supposed to magically be ok with paying twice the MONTHLY cost of GSL for 2 days of content... Like I've already said, people are free to decide where their money goes but to act like you are towards people who actually care about what they spend money on just isn't acceptable. You use the word exorbitant when it clearly isn't thus. It compares pretty favourably with other PPV events, and very favorably with tickets to the cinema or whatever. The GSL comparison is pretty fair though, personally I prefer the MLG overall just due to the more crammed format, but the likes of Leenock v Jjakji were worth my GSL subscription for sure. The post a few up was a pretty good one, actually I tend to just watch the streams in SD as I think it's perfectly reasonable and too much importance is being placed on production quality which will increase the overhead costs. That wasn't my post you quoted, I was just responding to what you wrote. I'm not sure the UFC and other PPV comparisons are fair, other than being PPV they are two totally different things. At least GSL compared to MLG is comparing (as close as possible) apples to apples.
Hm, don't know what happened there, I lose track sometimes on TL, given there aren't avatars and the like. My initial comment was a bit more barbed than my usual posts, dunno the post annoyed me or something :S
I was just giving ballpark values for alternative avenues of entertainment, GSL is better value than MLG but I find there is more of a shared experience in an MLG weekend, like my friends will get a few beers and chill the whole time. That said if this event bombs I'm going to look rather silly for spending the cash
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I really do think that Gold Members should get some sort of discount, not only because of us thinking that we were getting more events, but it would also encourage people to buy both Gold and the events.
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United States994 Posts
On February 14 2012 13:29 JJH777 wrote:
There's no way they got 20k each for just Providence... It was 3 days.
20k total for every caster of every title at providence.
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Sundance you are dreaming.
MLG is average at best.
GSL forever !!!
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On February 14 2012 13:30 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:27 Charger wrote:On February 14 2012 13:24 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 14 2012 13:20 Charger wrote:On February 14 2012 13:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 14 2012 13:13 onedayclose wrote:
I feel we as a community have an opportunity to ALL NOT spend $20 and go watch Asus ROG Invite for free instead or simply attend a barcraft. We have the chance to SEND A MESSAGE to MLG whether or not we are willing to spend an exorbitant amount of $ for 100% SC2 action. How is it exorbitant for what you can potentially get out of it? A pack of 20 cigarettes in the UK costs about half of the entire weekend ticket, get your head out of your ass and admit you're just tight. Quit being a dick, it's unnecessary. I paid $115 for the year of GSL content, that comes out to less than $10 a month. Now I'm supposed to magically be ok with paying twice the MONTHLY cost of GSL for 2 days of content... Like I've already said, people are free to decide where their money goes but to act like you are towards people who actually care about what they spend money on just isn't acceptable. You use the word exorbitant when it clearly isn't thus. It compares pretty favourably with other PPV events, and very favorably with tickets to the cinema or whatever. The GSL comparison is pretty fair though, personally I prefer the MLG overall just due to the more crammed format, but the likes of Leenock v Jjakji were worth my GSL subscription for sure. The post a few up was a pretty good one, actually I tend to just watch the streams in SD as I think it's perfectly reasonable and too much importance is being placed on production quality which will increase the overhead costs. That wasn't my post you quoted, I was just responding to what you wrote. I'm not sure the UFC and other PPV comparisons are fair, other than being PPV they are two totally different things. At least GSL compared to MLG is comparing (as close as possible) apples to apples. Hm, don't know what happened there, I lose track sometimes on TL, given there aren't avatars and the like. My initial comment was a bit more barbed than my usual posts, dunno the post annoyed me or something :S I was just giving ballpark values for alternative avenues of entertainment, GSL is better value than MLG but I find there is more of a shared experience in an MLG weekend, like my friends will get a few beers and chill the whole time. That said if this event bombs I'm going to look rather silly for spending the cash
In the end I hope it's a fantastic event, the best content and viewer experience ever and worth every penny of $20. Nothing would make me happier to be wrong, honestly. And the next time, I will pay up.
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Seems like a steep price when for $15 you get close to 2 months worth of games in the GSL (even if they are only 3 says a week).
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On February 14 2012 13:15 FLuE wrote:
I feel like this is one of those situations where everyone is going to make a big deal of it, and a year from now everyone will be paying the PPV fee and not caring because it will be the norm.
It is just the initial shock of having to pay for what was once free, just like the shock when gas jumped up signficantly. Now everyone pays $3.00+ not even blinking an eye but when it first went up big time everyone freaked out and didn't know how they would live paying that much. People adjusted, just like people will adjust to this.
no one blinks an eye to gas prices because its needed to live.
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Sorry MLG, $20 is WAY too much for one event. Not going to watch, even the free ones (principle of you pissing me off, me not liking to be pissed off).
EDIT: PS. I am pissed off because I was looking forward to this event but because it is PPV ($20) I will not be watching due to the high price. I simply do not understand how you can feel like you can charge so much for an untested product, this is the part that angers me. For instance, if you had said that it will only be $5 because it is an untested product, and you want people to get the experience, then I would be willing, but $20 just pisses me off. And yes I saw the free part so you can get a feel for the experience, but I disagree with that method for aforementioned reasons and have provided what I would have preferred to see. Not to mention there are no guarantees with products like this, if i pay the $20 what guarantees do I have that it wont be plagued with lag problems? None.
Once again, not only will I NOT watch this, but your reputation has taken yet another shot in foot.
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EPT
