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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 16 2012 21:55 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 21:38 Evolution wrote:what market? no one is doing what MLG is doing! you dont HAVE to give them anything. but you can pay 20$ for 20+houers of top class SC2 if you want to!! i have a jobb, i make some money and im willing to chip in. so that i can see what i love to see. if you dont, then thats fine, just dont tell them its there foult. 20$ is not alot of money if it was 20$ every week, then thats somthing else, but this is a spescial thing. i realy dont think any of the people here on TL would be thrown on the streest if they payed 20$ for this ones every 2-3 mothes. i meen, look at the money you put in to games, hardware, clothes, other sports, hobbys and so on... this is nothing!! 20$ can buy me a beer in a bar in norway or give me 20houers of sc2 content. i choose both  The starcraft2 tournament streaming market...? What exactly do you think you're "chipping in" to do?
The starcraft2 tournament streaming market...? no one is putting up players and teams like MLG is doing. im chipping in becouse i want to watch good games and a great tournament and to keep the weels roling for it to grow.
im supporting somthing i like to watch not like on Tv where i have to buy a channal pack of 20 channals and i only watch 3 of them.
can you watch your fotball team / basketball team or what ever for free?
at least in my country i have to pay to see the matches. that's fine by me.
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"$100,000 just for travel, accommodations, and other expenses for all 32 players to get to NYC".
SC2 scene is just a fart in the world we live in. Does sundance think he is FIFA and the game we are watching is football? Stop throwing money around and sending the bill to the viewers. Its not smart to invite 32 players to NYC, pay for everything, and have no live audience. So what if you only get 10 of the biggest names in the world instead of 20. People dont watch an event just because there are X number of koreans. Dumb idea by MLG.
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You guys that are chipping in are making a statement thats ok to charge an amount of money that hasnt been seen in this market. Sundance said he isn't going to raise the price but I guarantee he would if he knew he could get away with it. I feel the product is worth 10 dollars, I have bought the all of the gsl passes and been in attendance for 2 mlg's so I dont mind giving money for the cause. I do mind mlg's terrible business model and presentation with its news. You cant make all of these plans and realize you cant afford it. So you then ask your team (not focus groups) what they think its worth and you get a biased answer. At this point mlg is a poor investment. When they improve their costumer service and pricing I might change my mind. The only way they will do that is if they know they cant get away with it. Therefore, i think the community should pretty much ignore the event and let sundance know why they ignored it. Dont be rude to him, there is no need for name calling because he hasnt done anything to hurt us. Just let him know they didnt put the time in on proper pricing and from a realiatic standpoint, they are a poor investment. Shoot like half the mlgs had significant stream problems. Sundance chose new york and to throw away money on multiple poor ideas not me
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To me it's not the "pay only" that bothers me. The price is just ridiculous... ESL TV has a special offer at the moment and charges 20€ for 1 YEAR of premium access, normal price for that being 36€... (all IEM Events, TakeTV <Homestory Cups, loads of german content>, ESL Pro Series, regular shows with bitterdam + all the non sc2 content, HD VoDs)...
I am not trying to advertise ESL TV here, the link to that special offer is well hidden anyways, but I just want to put those 20 bucks into perspective!!!
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On February 16 2012 22:38 Fjodorov wrote:
"$100,000 just for travel, accommodations, and other expenses for all 32 players to get to NYC".
SC2 scene is just a fart in the world we live in. Does sundance think he is FIFA and the game we are watching is football? Stop throwing money around and sending the bill to the viewers. Its not smart to invite 32 players to NYC, pay for everything, and have no live audience. So what if you only get 10 of the biggest names in the world instead of 20. People dont watch an event just because there are X number of koreans. Dumb idea by MLG.
To each their own I guess because this is one of the biggest selling points to me. The lineup in this tournament is arguably the best there ever was outside of Korea.
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On February 16 2012 22:08 Evolution wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 21:55 y0su wrote:On February 16 2012 21:38 Evolution wrote:what market? no one is doing what MLG is doing! you dont HAVE to give them anything. but you can pay 20$ for 20+houers of top class SC2 if you want to!! i have a jobb, i make some money and im willing to chip in. so that i can see what i love to see. if you dont, then thats fine, just dont tell them its there foult. 20$ is not alot of money if it was 20$ every week, then thats somthing else, but this is a spescial thing. i realy dont think any of the people here on TL would be thrown on the streest if they payed 20$ for this ones every 2-3 mothes. i meen, look at the money you put in to games, hardware, clothes, other sports, hobbys and so on... this is nothing!! 20$ can buy me a beer in a bar in norway or give me 20houers of sc2 content. i choose both The starcraft2 tournament streaming market...? What exactly do you think you're "chipping in" to do? The starcraft2 tournament streaming market...? no one is putting up players and teams like MLG is doing. im chipping in becouse i want to watch good games and a great tournament and to keep the weels roling for it to grow. im supporting somthing i like to watch not like on Tv where i have to buy a channal pack of 20 channals and i only watch 3 of them. can you watch your fotball team / basketball team or what ever for free? at least in my country i have to pay to see the matches. that's fine by me.
Well, as a consumer I look at the product. MLG is not offering me anything substantially different.
If I want to watch the best SC2 players in the world I tune in to GOM. I also get great games from other smaller tournaments. I'm also okay with watching low quality streams (maybe because I multitask and seldom have sc2 streams at full screen).
I understand the comparison to other sports and what they cost to view (be it ppv like mma/boxing or subscription packages like most "seasonal" sports). However, I'd rather compare MLG to other SC2 tournaments. Why pay extra to MLG for providing me with essentially the same thing any other tournament provides free.
Real quick, I don't think $20 is a bad price. I think PPV or subscription based services are viable ways for a business to make money. However, there's something I always ask my wife when she tries telling me something is "a good price" - I ask her: "what do similar products cost?" As a consumer, I don't believe that the content MLG is advertising is worth their price when compared to alternatives.
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On February 16 2012 22:08 Evolution wrote:
can you watch your fotball team / basketball team or what ever for free?
Yes, actually.
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Sundance said his email was public but i didnt find it so does anybody have it? Thanks
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On February 16 2012 23:50 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 22:08 Evolution wrote:On February 16 2012 21:55 y0su wrote:On February 16 2012 21:38 Evolution wrote:what market? no one is doing what MLG is doing! you dont HAVE to give them anything. but you can pay 20$ for 20+houers of top class SC2 if you want to!! i have a jobb, i make some money and im willing to chip in. so that i can see what i love to see. if you dont, then thats fine, just dont tell them its there foult. 20$ is not alot of money if it was 20$ every week, then thats somthing else, but this is a spescial thing. i realy dont think any of the people here on TL would be thrown on the streest if they payed 20$ for this ones every 2-3 mothes. i meen, look at the money you put in to games, hardware, clothes, other sports, hobbys and so on... this is nothing!! 20$ can buy me a beer in a bar in norway or give me 20houers of sc2 content. i choose both The starcraft2 tournament streaming market...? What exactly do you think you're "chipping in" to do? The starcraft2 tournament streaming market...? no one is putting up players and teams like MLG is doing. im chipping in becouse i want to watch good games and a great tournament and to keep the weels roling for it to grow. im supporting somthing i like to watch not like on Tv where i have to buy a channal pack of 20 channals and i only watch 3 of them. can you watch your fotball team / basketball team or what ever for free? at least in my country i have to pay to see the matches. that's fine by me. Well, as a consumer I look at the product. MLG is not offering me anything substantially different. If I want to watch the best SC2 players in the world I tune in to GOM. I also get great games from other smaller tournaments. I'm also okay with watching low quality streams (maybe because I multitask and seldom have sc2 streams at full screen). I understand the comparison to other sports and what they cost to view (be it ppv like mma/boxing or subscription packages like most "seasonal" sports). However, I'd rather compare MLG to other SC2 tournaments. Why pay extra to MLG for providing me with essentially the same thing any other tournament provides free. Real quick, I don't think $20 is a bad price. I think PPV or subscription based services are viable ways for a business to make money. However, there's something I always ask my wife when she tries telling me something is "a good price" - I ask her: "what do similar products cost?" As a consumer, I don't believe that the content MLG is advertising is worth their price when compared to alternatives.
I guess that that just makes us diffrent, nothing wrong with that :-) for me GOM and MLG is what i try to find time to watch. there is just somthing spesical about it, even MLG more then GOM, dont know if its that i feel more conected with that sceen or what ever. tho i payd for bothe almost the hole way. and i realy dont mind it. it gives me what i want, high lvl gamplay and tones of time that i enjoy with friends or alone. so you might say i get the product i want. for me i dont feel the same way about the other tournament "products".
im sure there business models can be bether and all.
and i do get where you coming from with "what do similar products cost" im not a big spender when it comes to clothes, hardware and so on. and i would do some reaseche before i buy somthing. not just buy a label.
And i realy feel in both GOM and MLG i dont buy a label. i buy access to somthing that i love to watch. becouse of the comentators / players / croud / and the oh so many great games.
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On February 16 2012 23:54 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 22:08 Evolution wrote:
can you watch your fotball team / basketball team or what ever for free?
Yes, actually.
then your lucky ;-)
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im just curious why is 1st place prize still $5,000 ?
This is the reason why koreans don't want to risk coming to tournament on their own expense.
Increase the prize, make livestreams free, more pros will come, and more people will watch.
If you want this to work, make all games free except for the finals. (finals being $5 to watch)
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Well I'm paying, twenty bucks is nothing. And this is coming from a poor college students.
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On February 17 2012 01:53 tylervoss4 wrote:
im just curious why is 1st place prize still $5,000 ?
This is the reason why koreans don't want to risk coming to tournament on their own expense.
Increase the prize, make livestreams free, more pros will come, and more people will watch.
If you want this to work, make all games free except for the finals. (finals being $5 to watch)
You must have gotten some misinformation:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter
Also don't forget that all travel and accommodations are paid for and that could be a significant amount for each player/team.
And lastly, what is your expertise of the tournament scene that makes your model better than his? I am going to trust the guy with 10 years of experience in the field. Hell, he might be wrong on this but his time and effort in the scene has to earn some respect and make him the expert on how to monetize eSports, doesn't it?
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On February 17 2012 02:04 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 01:53 tylervoss4 wrote:
im just curious why is 1st place prize still $5,000 ?
This is the reason why koreans don't want to risk coming to tournament on their own expense.
Increase the prize, make livestreams free, more pros will come, and more people will watch.
If you want this to work, make all games free except for the finals. (finals being $5 to watch) You must have gotten some misinformation: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/WinterAlso don't forget that all travel and accommodations are paid for and that could be a significant amount for each player/team. And lastly, what is your expertise of the tournament scene that makes your model better than his? I am going to trust the guy with 10 years of experience in the field. Hell, he might be wrong on this but his time and effort in the scene has to earn some respect and make him the expert on how to monetize eSports, doesn't it?
Not if he's spent the past 10 years driving MLG into the red. Which is kinda a big point of debate in this thread.
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On February 17 2012 02:04 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 01:53 tylervoss4 wrote:
im just curious why is 1st place prize still $5,000 ?
This is the reason why koreans don't want to risk coming to tournament on their own expense.
Increase the prize, make livestreams free, more pros will come, and more people will watch.
If you want this to work, make all games free except for the finals. (finals being $5 to watch) You must have gotten some misinformation: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/WinterAlso don't forget that all travel and accommodations are paid for and that could be a significant amount for each player/team. And lastly, what is your expertise of the tournament scene that makes your model better than his? I am going to trust the guy with 10 years of experience in the field. Hell, he might be wrong on this but his time and effort in the scene has to earn some respect and make him the expert on how to monetize eSports, doesn't it?
The guy spent 10 years running a business in the red and he still has not managed to turn it around (wholy crap man, in a real life business you might get 2-3 years tops to get into the black before you go belly up). So yeah the only thing he has proved is that he also has no clue just like the rest of us.
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20 is a bit much I guess.
I'll give it a shot. Im a student and need all the money I can get.. but its starcraft so.. just this once. 
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On February 17 2012 02:21 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 02:04 drgoats wrote:On February 17 2012 01:53 tylervoss4 wrote:
im just curious why is 1st place prize still $5,000 ?
This is the reason why koreans don't want to risk coming to tournament on their own expense.
Increase the prize, make livestreams free, more pros will come, and more people will watch.
If you want this to work, make all games free except for the finals. (finals being $5 to watch) You must have gotten some misinformation: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/WinterAlso don't forget that all travel and accommodations are paid for and that could be a significant amount for each player/team. And lastly, what is your expertise of the tournament scene that makes your model better than his? I am going to trust the guy with 10 years of experience in the field. Hell, he might be wrong on this but his time and effort in the scene has to earn some respect and make him the expert on how to monetize eSports, doesn't it? The guy spent 10 years running a business in the red and he still has not managed to turn it around (wholy crap man, in a real life business you might get 2-3 years tops to get into the black before you go belly up). So yeah the only thing he has proved is that he also has no clue just like the rest of us.
This is a real life business unless your definition of real life business is different than mine.
He did get a lot of support from investors in the last few years which shows that there are people in the business world who like what MLG is doing and believe that it will be successful. Basically his business has been expanding since inception and along with expansion comes extra expenses. When eSports reaches its potential he will probably start getting to a point that he will turn profits. Also your argument is all the more reason why he should have PPV since the other models were not strong enough get him out of the red.
Like I said, he might be wrong on what he is doing now but his opinion counts a lot more than the majority of ours due to his experience in running a multi-million dollar eSports company. He is one of a few experts in the field who can come up with the proper model.
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On February 17 2012 00:05 Evolution wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 23:54 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On February 16 2012 22:08 Evolution wrote:
can you watch your fotball team / basketball team or what ever for free?
Yes, actually. then your lucky ;-)
Even if he is lucky, you dont pay mother fing 20 bucks for 1 fotball tournament lol.
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im curious now, will there be anything for free? or nothing at all
As has always been the case, our live Championship Events will continue to have a free standard-quality broadcast.
what does that mean? all important matches including final for free sd?
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On February 17 2012 02:36 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 02:21 RajaF wrote:On February 17 2012 02:04 drgoats wrote:On February 17 2012 01:53 tylervoss4 wrote:
im just curious why is 1st place prize still $5,000 ?
This is the reason why koreans don't want to risk coming to tournament on their own expense.
Increase the prize, make livestreams free, more pros will come, and more people will watch.
If you want this to work, make all games free except for the finals. (finals being $5 to watch) You must have gotten some misinformation: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/WinterAlso don't forget that all travel and accommodations are paid for and that could be a significant amount for each player/team. And lastly, what is your expertise of the tournament scene that makes your model better than his? I am going to trust the guy with 10 years of experience in the field. Hell, he might be wrong on this but his time and effort in the scene has to earn some respect and make him the expert on how to monetize eSports, doesn't it? The guy spent 10 years running a business in the red and he still has not managed to turn it around (wholy crap man, in a real life business you might get 2-3 years tops to get into the black before you go belly up). So yeah the only thing he has proved is that he also has no clue just like the rest of us. This is a real life business unless your definition of real life business is different than mine. He did get a lot of support from investors in the last few years which shows that there are people in the business world who like what MLG is doing and believe that it will be successful. Basically his business has been expanding since inception and along with expansion comes extra expenses. When eSports reaches its potential he will probably start getting to a point that he will turn profits. Also your argument is all the more reason why he should have PPV since the other models were not strong enough get him out of the red. Like I said, he might be wrong on what he is doing now but his opinion counts a lot more than the majority of ours due to his experience in running a multi-million dollar eSports company. He is one of a few experts in the field who can come up with the proper model.
I just don't buy the logic that repeated failure means he's more likely to be successful. I get that he has to try something new and, quite frankly, I don't give a damn whether MLG is subscription or PPV. The only thing I'm bitching up a storm about is how the terms of being a gold member have been changed and I'm being asked to pay for the same thing twice.
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EPT
