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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote: cuz its a shit game o wait, broodwar must be a shit game as well mr b teamer. You were b-teamer there and u are b-teamer here as well. Looks about right to me. If idra was owning face in starcraft 2 then i'd call it a shit game. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
I don't really see it as a problem, i see it as a game developing and new players along with it. Some slack of and drop of the radar while others try harder and get back into code S. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On February 03 2012 00:53 jinixxx123 wrote: o wait, broodwar must be a shit game as well mr b teamer. You were b-teamer there and u are b-teamer here as well. Looks about right to me. If idra was owning face in starcraft 2 then i'd call it a shit game. ...? He's still one of the top players, and he was the best foreign BW player at times as well. He's accomplished 100x more in sc2 than he did in BW and he STILL thinks BW is better. It's his opinion and trashing on his skill when he's 50x as good as you at both doesn't make much sense. The honest answer is that there isn't a very big skill gap for the most part, which is the same in most E-sports. MVP has a really high win-rate and does well in almost everything he enters, but he's the only person that is really a good deal better than the rest of the competition (maybe MMA as well) right now. There is no inherent physical advantage so it comes down to mostly practice, and when everyone is practicing around the same amount you're not going to see anyone with a 90% win-rate. Flash is a GOD in BW but has "only" a 72% win-rate, which is actually absolutely fucking absurdly high compared to anyone else. Not only that, but most E-sports have a cumulative advantage that isn't only mental; in sc when you get ahead you can be more greedy, get more ahead, etc. and if played correctly you can make that small advantage into a large advantage. In CS winning rounds gives you a better economy which means less save rounds for you and more for the enemy team. Etc, etc. | ||
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On February 03 2012 00:55 Skwid1g wrote: ...? He's still one of the top players, and he was the best foreign BW player at times as well. He's accomplished 100x more in sc2 than he did in BW and he STILL thinks BW is better. It's his opinion and trashing on his skill when he's 50x as good as you at both doesn't make much sense. he might say that, but lets pretend his whiney attitude started with sc2 . If it was still broodwar he was playing he would still be raging how terran is so weak. | ||
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IseeFish
United States45 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On February 03 2012 00:56 jinixxx123 wrote: he might say that, but lets pretend his whiney attitude started with sc2 . If it was still broodwar he was playing he would still be raging how terran is so weak. But he wouldn't be saying the game is shitty. There's a difference in saying the game is bad and saying the game is imbalanced. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote: cuz its a shit game I'd disappoint expectations too, with such an attitude. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On February 03 2012 01:01 Senx wrote: Because the game is way more volatile and random compared to sc1. Its really that simple... Actually there's alot more to it than that. | ||
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marcesr
Germany1383 Posts
I believe its mainly because of the way SC2 is designed. In Tennis the winner is almost solely determined by what we call mechanics in RTS. In contrast to that in SC2 build orders and strategies etc. play a huge role, its a mixture between poker and Tennis in this regard. The more of an impact build orders and strategies have, the more luck is involved in the game, because even if you are the best player in terms of scouting and choosing strategies there will always be a chance that your opponent counters your play. If you want to fix this, then make an RTS of unlimited information. The fact that SC2 is such a new game also has a big impact of course. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46483 Posts
Can mods change the title to "IdrA makes a comment; others respond"? On topic: We see plenty of repeat winners, top finishers, and players who we know will be in the running for the top three in any tournament. It's also nice to see some new faces as well. Some sports have more consistency; others have less. I don't see this as a problem. | ||
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On February 03 2012 01:00 Skwid1g wrote: But he wouldn't be saying the game is shitty. There's a difference in saying the game is bad and saying the game is imbalanced. if a race is weak, that implies the game is imbalanced, if the game is imbalanced it means its a bad game. I'm 100% sure idra thinks sc2 is imbalanced, thus why hes calling it a shit game. Idras bad manners started since broodwar, dont fool your head about this, if he was still playing broodwar he would be still raging, except none of us would know about it cause we are only here because of starcraft 2. As always i respect idra for being 1 of the best foreigners, but that dont mean i should support him when he says starcraft 2 is bad, Until he can beat leenock or nestea or DRG or stephano on a regular basis in mirror its like hearing a gold leaguer say the game is bad. Not one if these guys i would say idra is favored to win against in zvz yet its COIN FLIP ? If zvt is terrible, zvz is coinflip and zvp is impossible, Why not switch races?. And my opinion of best broodwar foriegners holds very little, Foriegners in general did not give a shit about broodwar, If u notice basically everybody good on the europe ladder is from warcraft 3. If these same players played broodwar, the competition would have been alot tougher, so best foreigner in broodwar holds little meaning to me. | ||
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote: cuz its a shit game xD It's probably due to the fact that the games are Bo3 | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46483 Posts
On February 03 2012 01:07 jinixxx123 wrote: if a race is weak, that implies the game is imbalanced, if the game is imbalanced it means its a bad game. I'm 100% sure idra thinks sc2 is imbalanced, thus why hes calling it a shit game. So all fighting and racing (and other genres) of games are necessarily bad? You're creating a non sequitur. Granted, this game is specifically working towards balance, but the fact that SC2 has already achieved success in many aspects (selling products, increasing the community, running tournaments, creating an obviously long shelf-life with two expansions, being fucking fun, still being competitive) all without having a 50-50 win ratio across the board between all three races means that it's very hard to objectively say this game is bad. | ||
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naut1c
Austria100 Posts
You can never predict the outcome of a match 100%, but you can nearly always predict a good chance of the outcome because of the following factors: - their skill-levels - recent results overall - matchup results in particular - recent results against of the same player - results on map against the same race - recent activity (training amount) - daily mood The higher the 'best of - n' value goes, the more definitive the prediction value gehts. But you can never be 100% sure, and that is GOOD, and it is Entertaining, otherwise it would be JUST boring. It is on the same predictable-level like many other sports. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Scouting in this game is incredibly hard and easy to counteract while there are many different potent timing attacks that often require a lot of different counters. In BW scouting was easier and the timing attacks were easier to stop without knowing exactly what they did. Combine the luck part with tournament formats where there is not much player protection and you'll see many different players winning. Ofcourse there is also a lack of dominant players at the moment. Women's tennis by the way has more different winners then almost any other sport at the moment, probably because it doesn't feature bo5 and hasn't had any real dominant players since the williams sisters. Men's tennis also used to vary much more before the federer era but the differences between the types of grounds have since become smaller. | ||
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dafunk
France521 Posts
On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote: cuz its a shit game If it was a "good game" like BW, you wouldn't even win 1 game against Koreans. Oh, sorry, you don't, even in SC2. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
Realistically you won't engage at the best possible time/location every single time, so it's easy to lose games due to failed attacks. If it was easier to retreat, one could try to pull back and try to play from a slightly behind spot. Not that this doesn't happen at all in SC2, but it's much less likely. One single mistake can literally end the game right there, SC2 is a much faster paced game. FXOZ got caught out of position today vs. MMA on Belshir Beach Winter, and he lost like 20-30 supply for nothing, and that was basically it. | ||
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TotalNightmare
Germany139 Posts
Just think of this example: WhiteRa could beat every single CodeS player out there if he was in his best form. And I am not kidding - you have to see him play. This applies not only to WhiteRa but also to many other pros out there. And while the pros do learn with time to keep a consistent level of skill there are still these days where somone just has a really good day and is able to beat everyone else. And because you cannot predict how somone is gonna play - for some players the possibilities reach from god awfull to godmode - it is impossible to predict who exactly is gonna win. Of cause some players are mutch more likely to win but predicting is nearly impossible. | ||
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SonOfBoxer
Korea (South)62 Posts
On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote: cuz its a shit game I never thought I would agree with you, but I do, 100%. Now I understand why you have such a huge fanbase. Telling the truth is usually pretty offensive at times, but you manage to do it. | ||
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